Arctic ice thins dramatically

[flacaltenn]

Did I miss anything at all scientific and informative there? Or was it to be filed with the DOD Contingiency Plan on Invading France?

 

[Chris]

AMSTERDAM (AP) — When a 43-foot (13-meter) gray whale was spotted off the Israeli town of Herzliya last year, scientists came to a startling conclusion: it must have wandered across the normally icebound route above Canada, where warm weather had briefly opened a clear channel three years earlier.

On a microscopic level, scientists also have found plankton in the North Atlantic where it had not existed for at least 800,000 years.

The whale's odyssey and the surprising appearance of the plankton indicates a migration of species through the Northwest Passage, a worrying sign of how global warming is affecting animals and plants in the oceans as well as on land.

"The implications are enormous. It's a threshold that has been crossed," said Philip C. Reid, of the Alister Hardy Foundation for Ocean Science in Plymouth, England.

"It's an indication of the speed of change that is taking place in our world in the present day because of climate change," he said in a telephone interview Friday.

Reid said the last time the world witnessed such a major incursion from the Pacific was 2 million years ago, which had "a huge impact on the North Atlantic," driving some species to extinction as the newcomers dominated the competition for food.

The Associated Press: Whales, plankton migrate across Northwest Passage

 

[Si modo]

Damn neanderthals and their cars...warmed up the world so much back then that the damn whales swam through the northwest.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Chris?

The ice has been melting for quite some time now. You might want to keep on current events

 

[konradv]

The ice has been melting for quite some time now. You might want to keep on current events

If the ice has been melting for some time now, why were some scientists predicting a new Ice Age back in the 70s? Why did they change their minds? Couldn't be the money. There's lots more of it available to the deniers. Just doesn't seem that way because they spend their money making political points, instead of doing real science. WHY??? Because it would show that logically and scientifically the skeptics/deniers don't have a leg to stand on. After all, If A causes an increase in B and the level of A is rising, logic tells you that B will increase also. Talk all you want about other factors, but that's why research still needs to be done. So that "tricks" of the statistical trade can be used to "hide the decline" from other sources and winnow out the contribution of man.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

... and another!!!

Feel free to show us how increasing the CO2 in Earth atmosphere by .0003% will melt that sucker next year.

That's your theory, right?

Now Franky boy, the numbers are 280 ppm prior to the industrial revolution, and 390 ppm at present. 110 is not 0.0003% of 280. Perhaps you should take a remedial course in basic math.

Was CO2 higher when the North American Glacier was melting?

 

[Uncensored2008]

If the ice has been melting for some time now, why were some scientists predicting a new Ice Age back in the 70s?

Because crisis sells. Note that these are exactly the same clowns predicting global warming now.

Why did they change their minds? Couldn't be the money.

Yep - grant whores pilfering the public treasury.

There's lots more of it available to the deniers.

Are you fucking stupid?

Those who apply actual science (let's call them "scientists") rather than preaching dogma (let's call them "warmists") don't get a dime in grants. Only those 100% faithful to the AGW cult get grants.

Why do you think there is so much fraud? If you don't promote the myth of man-made warming, you don't get paid - that simple.

Obviously, the science repudiates the anthropogenic element, so those looking to make money do what they have to do, they falsify data and defraud the public. Whores like Michael Mann and proven frauds like Phil Jones are filthy rich. They didn't get that way through legitimate science, they got rich through fraud, through the creation of a hoax that serves the interests of authoritarian minded governments.

No one gets paid for exposing the fraud.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Feel free to show us how increasing the CO2 in Earth atmosphere by .0003% will melt that sucker next year.

That's your theory, right?

Now Franky boy, the numbers are 280 ppm prior to the industrial revolution, and 390 ppm at present. 110 is not 0.0003% of 280. Perhaps you should take a remedial course in basic math.

Was CO2 higher when the North American Glacier was melting?

And I haven't forgotten that you still haven't turned in your AGW Hypothesis assignment. Were you this poor a student in school?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

If the ice has been melting for some time now, why were some scientists predicting a new Ice Age back in the 70s?

Because crisis sells. Note that these are exactly the same clowns predicting global warming now.

Why did they change their minds? Couldn't be the money.

Yep - grant whores pilfering the public treasury.

There's lots more of it available to the deniers.

Are you fucking stupid?

Those who apply actual science (let's call them "scientists") rather than preaching dogma (let's call them "warmists") don't get a dime in grants. Only those 100% faithful to the AGW cult get grants.

Why do you think there is so much fraud? If you don't promote the myth of man-made warming, you don't get paid - that simple.

Obviously, the science repudiates the anthropogenic element, so those looking to make money do what they have to do, they falsify data and defraud the public. Whores like Michael Mann and proven frauds like Phil Jones are filthy rich. They didn't get that way through legitimate science, they got rich through fraud, through the creation of a hoax that serves the interests of authoritarian minded governments.

No one gets paid for exposing the fraud.

The Decline Hiders are the ones who get paid, the Warmers like Konrad are their mindless followers

 

[konradv]

If the ice has been melting for some time now, why were some scientists predicting a new Ice Age back in the 70s?

Because crisis sells. Note that these are exactly the same clowns predicting global warming now.

Why did they change their minds? Couldn't be the money.

Yep - grant whores pilfering the public treasury.

There's lots more of it available to the deniers.

Are you fucking stupid?

Those who apply actual science (let's call them "scientists") rather than preaching dogma (let's call them "warmists") don't get a dime in grants. Only those 100% faithful to the AGW cult get grants.

Why do you think there is so much fraud? If you don't promote the myth of man-made warming, you don't get paid - that simple.

Obviously, the science repudiates the anthropogenic element, so those looking to make money do what they have to do, they falsify data and defraud the public. Whores like Michael Mann and proven frauds like Phil Jones are filthy rich. They didn't get that way through legitimate science, they got rich through fraud, through the creation of a hoax that serves the interests of authoritarian minded governments.

No one gets paid for exposing the fraud.

The only thing that's been repudiated is the Climategate hoax. Skeptical scientists are almost without exception bought and paid for by industrial interests. That's where the TRUE fraud is coming from. Remember, all that money the AGW proponents get is to do more research. I'd be more concerned about the veracity of the "skeptics" who also get money,from industry, but get to stuff it right in their pockets. Who REALLY has reason to falsify data and defraud the public? What I can't believe is the people that swallow their BS whole. They ARE getting paid for suppoedly exposing fraud, when the truth is they're the ones guilty of it. When somebody constantly yells "fraud", but doesn't come with any real proof, it's usually because they're the ones committing the real fraud.

 

[westwall]

If the ice has been melting for some time now, why were some scientists predicting a new Ice Age back in the 70s?

Because crisis sells. Note that these are exactly the same clowns predicting global warming now.



Yep - grant whores pilfering the public treasury.

There's lots more of it available to the deniers.

Are you fucking stupid?

Those who apply actual science (let's call them "scientists") rather than preaching dogma (let's call them "warmists") don't get a dime in grants. Only those 100% faithful to the AGW cult get grants.

Why do you think there is so much fraud? If you don't promote the myth of man-made warming, you don't get paid - that simple.

Obviously, the science repudiates the anthropogenic element, so those looking to make money do what they have to do, they falsify data and defraud the public. Whores like Michael Mann and proven frauds like Phil Jones are filthy rich. They didn't get that way through legitimate science, they got rich through fraud, through the creation of a hoax that serves the interests of authoritarian minded governments.

No one gets paid for exposing the fraud.

The only thing that's been repudiated is the Climategate hoax. Skeptical scientists are almost without exception bought and paid for by industrial interests. That's where the TRUE fraud is coming from. Remember, all that money the AGW proponents get is to do more research. I'd be more concerned about the veracity of the "skeptics" who also get money,from industry, but get to stuff it right in their pockets. Who REALLY has reason to falsify data and defraud the public? What I can't believe is the people that swallow their BS whole. They ARE getting paid for suppoedly exposing fraud, when the truth is they're the ones guilty of it. When somebody constantly yells "fraud", but doesn't come with any real proof, it's usually because they're the ones committing the real fraud.

If CLIMATEGATE was a hoax why have the alarmists lost every major program they were trying to enact? Hmmm? You really are clueless konny. AGW proponents spend money on crap (and nice houses for themselves) science to perpetuate the myth. You are a sad example of the dumbing down of American public students.

 

[Chris]

Surface temperatures in the Arctic since 2005 have been higher than for any five-year period since record keeping began in 1880, according to a new report from the Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Program, an international group within the Arctic Council that monitors the Arctic environment and provides advice on Arctic environmental protection.

The rate of sea-ice decline has accelerated and the decline rate in the past 10 years has been higher than the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predicted in 2007, the report says.

"Evidence from lake sediments, tree rings and ice cores indicates that Arctic summer temperatures have been higher in the past few decades than at any time in the past 2000 years," the report says. "Previously unseen weather patterns and ocean currents have been observed, including higher inflows of warm water entering the Arctic Ocean from the Pacific."

Arctic warming even faster than predicted, scientists say: Climate change | Alaska news at adn.com

 

[Uncensored2008]

The only thing that's been repudiated is the Climategate hoax.

You're an idiot - your foolish cult has been exposed repeatedly. Phil Jones is a fraud - a proven one who falsified results, data and openly lied to the UN and the British and US governments.

Skeptical scientists are almost without exception bought and paid for by industrial interests.

ROFL

Yeah, Lindzen got a $10,000 honorarium - clearly can't trust him - bought and paid..

Michael Mann got $7.9 MILLION from the IPCC - totally unbiased...

LOL - you cultists are a hoot, stupid as a bag of hammers, but funny as hell.

 

[Uncensored2008]

If CLIMATEGATE was a hoax why have the alarmists lost every major program they were trying to enact?

The desperation of calling the outing of fraud "a hoax" is the sign of mental illness.

AGW is a proven fraud. Jones openly admitted to being a fraud and that the entire program is a fraud.

Konradv is mentally retarded. Good to point and laugh at, not to be taken seriously.

 

[IanC]

Surface temperatures in the Arctic since 2005 have been higher than for any five-year period since record keeping began in 1880, according to a new report from the Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Program, an international group within the Arctic Council that monitors the Arctic environment and provides advice on Arctic environmental protection.

The rate of sea-ice decline has accelerated and the decline rate in the past 10 years has been higher than the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predicted in 2007, the report says.

"Evidence from lake sediments, tree rings and ice cores indicates that Arctic summer temperatures have been higher in the past few decades than at any time in the past 2000 years," the report says. "Previously unseen weather patterns and ocean currents have been observed, including higher inflows of warm water entering the Arctic Ocean from the Pacific."

Arctic warming even faster than predicted, scientists say: Climate change | Alaska news at adn.com

is that story referencing the arctic hockey stick graph by Bradley? Bradley is the B in MBH98, Mann's famous hockey stick. funny how the hockey team finds hockey sticks in everything.

I'm not sure how big a player PIOMAS is in the arctic ice games but I thought this recent change in their 'methods' and ice estimates was telling.

“Satellite sea ice concentration data are assimilated in GIOMAS using the Lindsay and Zhang (2005) assimilation procedure. The procedure is based on “nudging” the model estimate of ice concentration toward the observed concentration in a manner that emphasizes the ice extent and minimizes the effect of observational errors in the interior of the ice pack.”

nudging the data?

“Because of the errors in the summer Gice dataset ice concentration in the interior of the pack (as well as errors in summer ice concentration based on passive microwave observations), assimilation of ice concentration is accomplished in a method that emphasizes the extent over the concentration. The observations are weighted heavily only when there is a large discrepancy between the model and the observed concentration. Each day the model estimate Cmod is nudged to a revised estimate Ĉmod with the relationship.”

observations are weighted heavily only when there is a large discrepancy between the model and the observed concentration?


hahaha, business as usual in climate science. I am just shocked that they owned up to mistakes and made corrections that significantly changed the trend.

 

[skookerasbil]

If CLIMATEGATE was a hoax why have the alarmists lost every major program they were trying to enact?

The desperation of calling the outing of fraud "a hoax" is the sign of mental illness.

AGW is a proven fraud. Jones openly admitted to being a fraud and that the entire program is a fraud.

Konradv is mentally retarded. Good to point and laugh at, not to be taken seriously.

Uncensored........just want to make a slight correction here. Clinically speaking, its not a mental retardation thing. It is, however, a mental illness thing.......what is known in the field as "thought process disorder, or what I commonly refer to as k00k. Might appear flippant but clinically speaking, its actually right on target. There are alot of very smart people out there with thought processing disorders, most controlled by pharmacological aids. Your typical suspects on this board are dealing with a setting screws problem ( a phrase used by psychiatrists I work with)........most, like Chris and Old Rocks, are not at all short on intelligence. But OCD stuff can get pretty nasty and alot of people dont even realize its presence. Youve heard about the residual effects of OCD= its tough to be able to view the entire landscape of things, which is why you also typically hear of the liberal mind not being able to think on the margin. Cost/Benefit ratio's dont matter to these people because they are simply incapable of comprehending. They cant process on certain things, for example, they have alot of difficulty answering the question, "As compared to what?" in terms of assessing neccessary tradeoffs. Theres a disconnect pathology going on..........

So its not an intelligence thing.......its a thought prossessing thing. Theres a big difference. Medication cannot treat intelligence problems but can perform miracles on OCD illnesses. Why do you think the drug companies spend almost 1 billion dollar to R&D a new drug? Because the shit they make WORKS and millions of lives are signficantly changed for it!!! You see these hero's of the blogging world with their 4 billion posts/month. These poor fcukkers are miserable and I mean fcukking miserable once the PC is shut down. Theres a whole world out there for them if they were prescribed a good SSRO drug.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Uncensored........just want to make a slight correction here. Clinically speaking, its not a mental retardation thing. It is, however, a mental illness thing.......

Point taken...


But I STILL think he has an IQ of less than 68....

 

[konradv]

If CLIMATEGATE was a hoax why have the alarmists lost every major program they were trying to enact?

The desperation of calling the outing of fraud "a hoax" is the sign of mental illness.

AGW is a proven fraud. Jones openly admitted to being a fraud and that the entire program is a fraud.

Konradv is mentally retarded. Good to point and laugh at, not to be taken seriously.

Just shows how the badly denier hoax is going. They don't have the facts, so they have to go with lies and invective. No one admitted fraud. Usually the ones screaming "fraud" the loudest are the real fraudsters. Keep havingyour little funsies, but while you're at it, please explain why temps are going up during a solar minimum?

 

[saveliberty]

Ocean currents and underwater volcanic activity for starters.

 

[westwall]

Surface temperatures in the Arctic since 2005 have been higher than for any five-year period since record keeping began in 1880, according to a new report from the Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Program, an international group within the Arctic Council that monitors the Arctic environment and provides advice on Arctic environmental protection.

The rate of sea-ice decline has accelerated and the decline rate in the past 10 years has been higher than the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predicted in 2007, the report says.

"Evidence from lake sediments, tree rings and ice cores indicates that Arctic summer temperatures have been higher in the past few decades than at any time in the past 2000 years," the report says. "Previously unseen weather patterns and ocean currents have been observed, including higher inflows of warm water entering the Arctic Ocean from the Pacific."

Arctic warming even faster than predicted, scientists say: Climate change | Alaska news at adn.com

is that story referencing the arctic hockey stick graph by Bradley? Bradley is the B in MBH98, Mann's famous hockey stick. funny how the hockey team finds hockey sticks in everything.

I'm not sure how big a player PIOMAS is in the arctic ice games but I thought this recent change in their 'methods' and ice estimates was telling.

“Satellite sea ice concentration data are assimilated in GIOMAS using the Lindsay and Zhang (2005) assimilation procedure. The procedure is based on “nudging” the model estimate of ice concentration toward the observed concentration in a manner that emphasizes the ice extent and minimizes the effect of observational errors in the interior of the ice pack.”

nudging the data?

“Because of the errors in the summer Gice dataset ice concentration in the interior of the pack (as well as errors in summer ice concentration based on passive microwave observations), assimilation of ice concentration is accomplished in a method that emphasizes the extent over the concentration. The observations are weighted heavily only when there is a large discrepancy between the model and the observed concentration. Each day the model estimate Cmod is nudged to a revised estimate Ĉmod with the relationship.”

observations are weighted heavily only when there is a large discrepancy between the model and the observed concentration?


hahaha, business as usual in climate science. I am just shocked that they owned up to mistakes and made corrections that significantly changed the trend.

Wink, wink, grin, grin, nudge, nudge know what I mean squire? It's sad that the climate fraud can so eloquently be described by a fragment of a Monty Python sketch.