Are Children A Part Of The Gay Marriage Conversation?

[elektra]

You state a 8.5 year old would pick a homosexual man-man over the worst of the government care. But would that same child choose a homosexual man-man over a mom and dad, as parents

I see you missed the point of the previous post. As children get older "mom's and dad's" aren't stepping up to the plate to become adoptive parents - they typically will go on a waiting list for newborns instead of adopting an older child.

So the decision isn't be adopted by a man/man or woman/woman couple, the decision is to stay in the government system or be adopted or not.

And as I said in my case, which was backed up in one of the articles previously linked, older children to have a say in the adoption process.

Kicked around in the government system? So fix the government system.

Go for it, what's you plan? More government?


>>>>

My plan is less government, meaning less people working for the government who have zero idea of what they are doing.

This thread has a lot of posts, I do not see the link to the article that validates your assertion.

 

[elektra]

The poorest Heterosexual, Man and Woman, married, as Man and Wife can give something to a child that the richest Homosexual Man and a Man can never give a child, a Father and a Mother.

 

[Physics Hunter]

Homosexuals want to play house perverting the intent of nature and nature's God. Then they want to pervert the laws of nature and say they are parents.

I really don't care what they do to each other, but leading Children to hell, and/or using them as props to play Ward and Jude Cleaver is sick.

This is an evil world and I realize that there are things I might not be able to change right now; the redeeming thought is that their children will hate them.

And this is why we have a Constitution and its case law, to protect citizens from having this sort of ignorance, fear, stupidity, and hate codified.

CLICK You just got trapped.

Locked in on the word "hate" did we?

I was talking about the common experience of parents and teenagers. This phenomena knows no boundaries.

Fools rush in...

You were exhibiting your hatred of gay Americans, which you're at liberty to express, just not codify.

I like how they always retreat to their little corner ("don't HATE me bro") after being so bold.

Do you even know what hate is? How did I exhibit it?

The lights seem to be on but I am not sure that anyone is home.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The poorest Heterosexual, Man and Woman, married, as Man and Wife can give something to a child that the richest Homosexual Man and a Man can never give a child, a Father and a Mother.

Well a same-sex couple willing to open their hearts and their homes, whether they are poor, rich, or middle class can provide three things that a child without a Father and Mother can never get from an orphanage and foster care...

............... Love

...........................Hope

........................................and a Family.


>>>>

 

[Seawytch]

Cite where I said lesbians take birth control pills "for birth control." I never did. That was your own pathetic strawman.

I had to take it as a surrogate. I was 36 when I had to take it the first time.

Was your partner the father?

Well no wonder you have problems with human sexuality...you don't even have an understanding of basic biology from which to start.

 

[Seawytch]

My personal situation is not the issue.

Obviously it is since you fear gays being able to adopt your children in the event of you and your spouse's untimely demise.

I come from a broken family of extreme abuse. Family is out of the question.

A heterosexual family one assumes, yes? You came from an abusive heterosexual family. Interesting...

I work in an industry which is 100% travel, does not leave much time to establish friends where I live, part time.

Finances are tough, I supported homes in two countries while paying thousands to the government for visas. Thousands because of government worker mistakes.

My industry has been getting ruled and regulated out of business by the government, my work has dropped over 50%. That leaves me zero money now, for something like life insurance.

I can go on, but how much of my specifics did you know of when you replied to me.

yes, it is a sorry state of our nation, but not because of me or parents, but because of government.

Awful lot of excuses...

did you even realize that heterosexual children are being exposed to homosexuals, that the adoption became so widespread, without a single vote at the ballot.

should you not be more concerned with this than my personal situation and the blame you seem to lay at my feet.

How do you know the children are heterosexual? Vote on what, whether gays should be able to adopt? Go right ahead and try...such a law would be struck down.

Judge overturns Florida ban on adoption by gays

 

[Seawytch]

Why would homosexuals have your children if you and your wife died?

One of the first things my wife and I did when we had children was make legal arrangements for our children if something were to happen to both of us. Documents for legal guardianship pending adoption. A will including Executorship for existing real property and it's sale. Proceeds of the equity in the home and life insurance - after all bills were paid off - going into a trust with an annual allowance to their new parents to defray their increased costs, and the balance of the trust funding college or being made available to them at age 21. Working with a financial adviser, a 5% rate of return on the initial trust after insurance and home sale would have provided about $5,000 to $10,000 per year for maintenance and $100,000 each for college.

This was all setup while I was an enlisted man in the Navy and the income of my wife and I combined was about $60,000 per year.

It truly is a sad state of our nation if someone is a parent and doesn't plan for their child's life if something happens to them.


>>>>

My personal situation is not the issue.

I come from a broken family of extreme abuse. Family is out of the question.

I work in an industry which is 100% travel, does not leave much time to establish friends where I live, part time.

Finances are tough, I supported homes in two countries while paying thousands to the government for visas. Thousands because of government worker mistakes.

My industry has been getting ruled and regulated out of business by the government, my work has dropped over 50%. That leaves me zero money now, for something like life insurance.

I can go on, but how much of my specifics did you know of when you replied to me.

yes, it is a sorry state of our nation, but not because of me or parents, but because of government.

did you even realize that heterosexual children are being exposed to homosexuals, that the adoption became so widespread, without a single vote at the ballot.

should you not be more concerned with this than my personal situation and the blame you seem to lay at my feet.

You blame the government for issues with your family, but want to use its power to prohibit other families from even existing. The essence of hypocrisy, right there.

You want to give homosexuals heterosexual children through the power of the government.

Funny how ShackledNation demonstrates ShackledNation's hypocrisy while accusing others of being a hypocrite.

Solely through the force of government without a vote, without the media reporting. Homosexuals can adopt heterosexual children.

Hypocrite!!!!!!

People's life decisions do not have to be put up to popular vote. You are advocating tyranny whereby people can only do something if others vote that they can. That goes against the American rule of law.

Meanwhile, you still haven't answered my question.

How is adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples a harm to anyone? Who is being harmed? How? Where is your evidence to back this up?

Every question I put to you, you answer with an related question.

It is against the rule of law? People's life decisions? Strawman arguments.

A homosexual adopting an orphaned heterosexual child is a life decision the general public has no say in, not even the children have a voice, and to put this issue to a vote would be tyranny?

Yes, what harm can come from the government dictating law without a discussion with the people effected, let alone a vote.

Tyranny.

Orphaned children don't get to pick their next parents ever...obvious by the number that get abused by their adoptive or foster parents. If you don't want your children "in the system", make other arrangements for them as we have done for our children, the children of my partner and me. We don't want some bigot hater raising our children if something should happen to us. How come they won't get to pick their next parents?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Elketra, I am attacking your logic. You are saying that adult homos wish to assault children using marriage as a guise, without admitting heterosexual adults have been doing the same as well. Considering the vast numbers more of abused children by heteros than homos, your logic fails.

Quote me so all can see you know what you speak of.
Otherwise you are simply trolling.

Your posting has deliberately ignored the comparison, even when you are challenged on it as above. If you were in a HS debate tourney, you would oh fer the tourney.

It is what it is: you can't make the internal error in your point goal: that the serious ness of homosexual predators as a bar to marriage leads inevitably to comparisons with heterosexual predators.

 

[elektra]

The poorest Heterosexual, Man and Woman, married, as Man and Wife can give something to a child that the richest Homosexual Man and a Man can never give a child, a Father and a Mother.

Well a same-sex couple willing to open their hearts and their homes, whether they are poor, rich, or middle class can provide three things that a child without a Father and Mother can never get from an orphanage and foster care...

............... Love

...........................Hope

........................................and a Family.


>>>>

Ha, Ha, thanks good point.

Family as defined by you, is any Social Unit of people who care for one another, Orphanages are exactly that, a family by your definition.

In the Orphanage there is Hope, Hope for a Mother and Father, a child reaches the end of Hope with a same-sex couple, they will never have a Mother and a Father.

Love, there is no guarantee of love anywhere.
Yet in the Orphanage the Children develop into a family that love one another, that love will be as strong as any other love.

Same-sex couples can give love all they want, the only guarantee here is not all Orphaned Children will accept or return that love.

But hey, write a Hallmark card, nice sentiment.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The poorest Heterosexual, Man and Woman, married, as Man and Wife can give something to a child that the richest Homosexual Man and a Man can never give a child, a Father and a Mother.

merely your opinion without any evidence, move along

 

[elektra]

Elketra, I am attacking your logic. You are saying that adult homos wish to assault children using marriage as a guise, without admitting heterosexual adults have been doing the same as well. Considering the vast numbers more of abused children by heteros than homos, your logic fails.

Quote me so all can see you know what you speak of.
Otherwise you are simply trolling.

Your posting has deliberately ignored the comparison, even when you are challenged on it as above. If you were in a HS debate tourney, you would oh fer the tourney.

It is what it is: you can't make the internal error in your point goal: that the serious ness of homosexual predators as a bar to marriage leads inevitably to comparisons with heterosexual predators.

Drunk again, huh JakeStarbly.

This is not High School, and the rules of a debate have no merit in this forum, if so your posts would of been tossed in the garbage by the 1000's.

 

[elektra]

The poorest Heterosexual, Man and Woman, married, as Man and Wife can give something to a child that the richest Homosexual Man and a Man can never give a child, a Father and a Mother.

merely your opinion without any evidence, move along

Opinion? a man and woman is a mother and father, I need evidence of that!

Or I need evidence showing that a man can not be a mother?

You really are stupid, huh.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Common logic always prevails, and sense your argument is a pathology of internal contradictions, the reader realizes that your points have no merit. Ad homming in place of logic is all you,and Sil, have now. You have no evidence to support your claims.

 

[elektra]

My personal situation is not the issue.

Obviously it is since you fear gays being able to adopt your children in the event of you and your spouse's untimely demise.

I come from a broken family of extreme abuse. Family is out of the question.

A heterosexual family one assumes, yes? You came from an abusive heterosexual family. Interesting...

I work in an industry which is 100% travel, does not leave much time to establish friends where I live, part time.

Finances are tough, I supported homes in two countries while paying thousands to the government for visas. Thousands because of government worker mistakes.

My industry has been getting ruled and regulated out of business by the government, my work has dropped over 50%. That leaves me zero money now, for something like life insurance.

I can go on, but how much of my specifics did you know of when you replied to me.

yes, it is a sorry state of our nation, but not because of me or parents, but because of government.

Awful lot of excuses...

did you even realize that heterosexual children are being exposed to homosexuals, that the adoption became so widespread, without a single vote at the ballot.

should you not be more concerned with this than my personal situation and the blame you seem to lay at my feet.

How do you know the children are heterosexual? Vote on what, whether gays should be able to adopt? Go right ahead and try...such a law would be struck down.

Judge overturns Florida ban on adoption by gays

I fear gays? With those kind of x-ray eyes, you must be a dangerous bigot, with the stereotype and all. Yea, extreme abuse, give me a bit of real life experience that is impossible to learn through google.

Did you have your fun at my expense.
I aint done the same to you, have I?

But I guess when the Activist has no substance, and in the Case of Homosexual Advocacy, Seawytch has no facts, so its time for personal attacks.

Funny how all these people who are open and care simply are cruel and mean simply discussing something on a message board.

Attack me all you want, its just three or four of you picking on one person here, you proving anything other than just about every post of yours is personal, irrelevant.

A shallow life you live.

 

[elektra]

Common logic always prevails, and sense your argument is a pathology of internal contradictions, the reader realizes that your points have no merit. Ad homming in place of logic is all you,and Sil, have now. You have no evidence to support your claims.

You have been blabbering so long, do you remember what it is that you pretend this claim to be, do you remember what you said?

 

[Seawytch]

The poorest Heterosexual, Man and Woman, married, as Man and Wife can give something to a child that the richest Homosexual Man and a Man can never give a child, a Father and a Mother.

Fortunately, that is not required to be a good parent.

In 30 years, 67 studies have failed to find harm in gay parenting. Instead, study after study finds that our kids --- and I say "our" in particular because I am raising two sons with my husband -- turn out pretty much the same as anyone else’s. In fact, having invested time and effort in deliberately becoming parents, same-sex couples may work harder at being good parents.

Children do best when they are raised by adults who are loving, compassionate, responsible, dependable and committed to the children’s well-being. Families do best when parents have the support of the community and society at large. Whether a family has one parent or two, and whether those parents are of opposite sexes or the same, doesn't matter.

Same-sex parents, lacking any tradition of gender-based division of labor, may actually share parenting duties more equitably. Children of gay parents grow up without gendered assumptions about child care and housework. There is no “women's work,” and there’s no such thing as a “man’s job.” It’s unremarkable for a man to be a “stay-at-home dad” or for a woman to be a “working mom.” Whatever the configuration, these kids see two adults working in an equal partnership.
​

 

[Moonglow]

With 32 states pushing the US Supreme Court to make a final decision on gay marriage, how heavily will the welfare of children weigh in on that debate?

Are children a part of the gay marriage discussion? Well, the Europeans think so... European Court Rules Gay Marriage not a Human Right ... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

What do you believe? Vote the poll.

Marriage is not needed to have and raise children, marriage is for legal aspects of a relationship...

 

[Seawytch]

My personal situation is not the issue.

Obviously it is since you fear gays being able to adopt your children in the event of you and your spouse's untimely demise.

I come from a broken family of extreme abuse. Family is out of the question.

A heterosexual family one assumes, yes? You came from an abusive heterosexual family. Interesting...

I work in an industry which is 100% travel, does not leave much time to establish friends where I live, part time.

Finances are tough, I supported homes in two countries while paying thousands to the government for visas. Thousands because of government worker mistakes.

My industry has been getting ruled and regulated out of business by the government, my work has dropped over 50%. That leaves me zero money now, for something like life insurance.

I can go on, but how much of my specifics did you know of when you replied to me.

yes, it is a sorry state of our nation, but not because of me or parents, but because of government.

Awful lot of excuses...

did you even realize that heterosexual children are being exposed to homosexuals, that the adoption became so widespread, without a single vote at the ballot.

should you not be more concerned with this than my personal situation and the blame you seem to lay at my feet.

How do you know the children are heterosexual? Vote on what, whether gays should be able to adopt? Go right ahead and try...such a law would be struck down.

Judge overturns Florida ban on adoption by gays

I fear gays? With those kind of x-ray eyes, you must be a dangerous bigot, with the stereotype and all. Yea, extreme abuse, give me a bit of real life experience that is impossible to learn through google.

Do you just not fully read what you're responding to or are you intentionally misrepresenting what people say? I said you fear gays adopting your children. You've repeatedly said so. What "extreme abuse" are you talking about?

Did you have your fun at my expense.
I aint done the same to you, have I?

But I guess when the Activist has no substance, and in the Case of Homosexual Advocacy, Seawytch has no facts, so its time for personal attacks.

Funny how all these people who are open and care simply are cruel and mean simply discussing something on a message board.

Attack me all you want, its just three or four of you picking on one person here, you proving anything other than just about every post of yours is personal, irrelevant.

A shallow life you live.

What "fun" do you perceive me getting out of asking you simple questions based on your post? Where did I "attack you personally"?

 

[Seawytch]

The poorest Heterosexual, Man and Woman, married, as Man and Wife can give something to a child that the richest Homosexual Man and a Man can never give a child, a Father and a Mother.

Well a same-sex couple willing to open their hearts and their homes, whether they are poor, rich, or middle class can provide three things that a child without a Father and Mother can never get from an orphanage and foster care...

............... Love

...........................Hope

........................................and a Family.


>>>>

Ha, Ha, thanks good point.

Family as defined by you, is any Social Unit of people who care for one another, Orphanages are exactly that, a family by your definition.

In the Orphanage there is Hope, Hope for a Mother and Father, a child reaches the end of Hope with a same-sex couple, they will never have a Mother and a Father.

Love, there is no guarantee of love anywhere.
Yet in the Orphanage the Children develop into a family that love one another, that love will be as strong as any other love.

Same-sex couples can give love all they want, the only guarantee here is not all Orphaned Children will accept or return that love.

But hey, write a Hallmark card, nice sentiment.

Kids in "orphanages" (group homes more like) don't usually give a good goddamn who adopts them as long as they care for them. I challenge you, Elektra, to go volunteer in some group homes and, by all means, ask those kids if they care that the people adopting them are of the same gender.

There is no "guarantee" that any adoptive child will "accept and return" the love of the adoptive parents or vice versa. Parenting does not rely on gender.

 

[elektra]

The poorest Heterosexual, Man and Woman, married, as Man and Wife can give something to a child that the richest Homosexual Man and a Man can never give a child, a Father and a Mother.

Fortunately, that is not required to be a good parent.

In 30 years, 67 studies have failed to find harm in gay parenting. Instead, study after study finds that our kids --- and I say "our" in particular because I am raising two sons with my husband -- turn out pretty much the same as anyone else’s. In fact, having invested time and effort in deliberately becoming parents, same-sex couples may work harder at being good parents.

Children do best when they are raised by adults who are loving, compassionate, responsible, dependable and committed to the children’s well-being. Families do best when parents have the support of the community and society at large. Whether a family has one parent or two, and whether those parents are of opposite sexes or the same, doesn't matter.

Same-sex parents, lacking any tradition of gender-based division of labor, may actually share parenting duties more equitably. Children of gay parents grow up without gendered assumptions about child care and housework. There is no “women's work,” and there’s no such thing as a “man’s job.” It’s unremarkable for a man to be a “stay-at-home dad” or for a woman to be a “working mom.” Whatever the configuration, these kids see two adults working in an equal partnership.
​

You post has no relevance to mine? Seawych is just using my post to pontificate a premise unrelated to the fact I posted.

Wow, 67 studies, of how many thousands? Can you produce those 67 studies, like link to the study and quote directly from it, no is that answer.

One link goes to Slate, the other link goes to the American Psychological Association, not to the studies, so go ahead and link to the study so we can see if you are telling the truth or telling a lie. And do not waste our time by following your link to an abstract, link to the study.

I stated that a man and woman are mom and dad, which is best for Children, produce the study you claim disproves this, after all, this is what you quoted and responded to.