Army Clears Bowe Bergdahl of Misconduct. Really?

[idb]

Oh, I believe I did. Nobody here has bothered to apprise me of my mistake civilly, but hey, I guess none of you could help yourselves.

You might want to read back then.
This thread is been dripping with civility towards you...undeserved I'd suggest but...there ya go...we're nice people.

And just so you don't have to ask...it's undeserved because you're a low-information narcissistic idiot.

Sure, Lakhota on post one calling me stupid, Taz calling me a 'fatty' via a internet meme, or him telling me I can't read English, or Lakhota again calling me an idiot. Sure, it's been dripping with civility alright. And now I'm the one who can't read?

Ha.

Well, to use imagery from an old saying TK, you do tend to live by the sword.

 

[idb]

Playing soccer with his captors does not qualify as "fraternizing with the enemy".

He was a captive. He had no choice as to whether or not he spent time with "the enemy", and it's not "misconduct" to not be tortured all the time.

@theDoctorisIn

So, what do you call his participating in target practice with them? Being allowed to carry his own firearm? You know, those fighters aren't dumb. If they knew he would be hostile, they wouldn't endanger themselves by giving a weapon to an enemy captive in the first place. The only way he would get a weapon is by joining them, which leads me to this question: what about Bergdahl declaring himself a mujahid? And we're attributing this to torture? Stockholm Syndrome? Surely that wasn't the case as he cursed his country aloud in a letter back home. I would assume him to have been in his right mind as he wrote it. We just had an American citizen join those ISIS guys just yesterday, too. Na. I can't believe that he didn't commit any misconduct while with the enemy.

Oh well, your mind is made up about him.

Think of the potential mine of intelligence on the Taliban he might be though.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Playing soccer with his captors does not qualify as "fraternizing with the enemy".

He was a captive. He had no choice as to whether or not he spent time with "the enemy", and it's not "misconduct" to not be tortured all the time.

@theDoctorisIn

So, what do you call his participating in target practice with them? Being allowed to carry his own firearm? You know, those fighters aren't dumb. If they knew he would be hostile, they wouldn't endanger themselves by giving a weapon to an enemy captive. The only way he would get a weapon is by joining them, that leads me to this: what about Bergdahl declaring himself a mujahid? And we're attributing this to torture? Stockholm Syndrome? Surely that wasn't the case as he cursed his country aloud in a letter back home. I would assume him to have been in his right mind as he wrote it. We just had an American citizen join those ISIS guys just yesterday. Na. I can't believe that he didn't commit any misconduct while with the enemy.

1. "Participating in target practice" is not misconduct either. He was under no obligation to "be hostile" all the time. He was a captive in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by armed "soldiers". I don't think they had any reason to worry that he was going to shoot them.

2. The source for the claim that he converted to Islam and declared himself a mujahideen is very questionable. Either way, converting to a different religion isn't "misconduct" either.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Suffice it to say that it's pretty fucking stupid to think that reading British tabloids gives you enough information to make a judgement as to his conduct as a prisoner.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[MENTION=43268]TemplarKormac[/MENTION]

...
[CORRECTION] Just to clarify, his desertion is still being investigated. This is reference to his activities during his captivity.

Desertion is difficult to use here: "intent to remain away permanently"

No one gives two craps what other enlisted or retired doofuses say. We use the rule of law.

Good gawd, you people. Ha! I just did a search:

AWOL and Desertion in the US Military

 

[d_tyler]

You guys might as well stop trying to define "wrongdoing". They have most likely been given all the information they will get about his time there...probably from the very reliable individuals who "held" him for so long. This kid was on a 5 year hiatus from the military and all the time he was living out his desire to become a member of the very group that is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of their own countrymen.

But it will never come to light. He will be excused because he's crazy. Whether he is or not will ALSO never be determined for the public's knowledge.

There is a giant rug just inside the White House front door and this is just one more scandal that will be swept directly underneath that rug.

This young man, once a member of the US Military, will go home and live out his days under protective custody or relocated and re-assigned a new identity. And probably will become another of America's own domestic terrorists. It is sad, and even a bit scary, to think what he might have the opportunity to do with his new life. Will he have a role in the next attack on America? Will he be part of the growing network inside our own borders? He will be under the radar and more dangerous than ever. And I can't help but think that there are certain political figures who are very happy about that. The only execution this kid has to worry about is from one of his own brothers who he left standing at their posts.

JUST MY OPINION

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[MENTION=43857]eagle1462010[/MENTION]

I'm here to bring you hope that you might yet have the public execution you pray for TK.
The article says that he is cleared of misconduct while captured.
It doesn't say that he's cleared of desertion.

Be patient...they might even bring back the punishment of hanging, drawing and quartering for your amusement.

If he deserts his post on the battlefield he should be lined up on a wall and shot.

Why do you hate American tradition and history of rule of law and right to a trial?

AWOL and Desertion in the US Military

 

[TemplarKormac]

Playing soccer with his captors does not qualify as "fraternizing with the enemy".

He was a captive. He had no choice as to whether or not he spent time with "the enemy", and it's not "misconduct" to not be tortured all the time.

@theDoctorisIn

So, what do you call his participating in target practice with them? Being allowed to carry his own firearm? You know, those fighters aren't dumb. If they knew he would be hostile, they wouldn't endanger themselves by giving a weapon to an enemy captive. The only way he would get a weapon is by joining them, that leads me to this: what about Bergdahl declaring himself a mujahid? And we're attributing this to torture? Stockholm Syndrome? Surely that wasn't the case as he cursed his country aloud in a letter back home. I would assume him to have been in his right mind as he wrote it. We just had an American citizen join those ISIS guys just yesterday. Na. I can't believe that he didn't commit any misconduct while with the enemy.

1. "Participating in target practice" is not misconduct either. He was under no obligation to "be hostile" all the time. He was a captive in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by armed "soldiers". I don't think they had any reason to worry that he was going to shoot them.

2. The source for the claim that he converted to Islam and declared himself a mujahideen is very questionable. Either way, converting to a different religion isn't "misconduct" either.

I can't believe what I'm hearing from you.

Declaring himself as a mujahid is to declare himself a soldier of Islam, or to declare jihad against the US or anyone else. It isn't just joining a religion, it's joining the fight. That within itself is traitorous and classifies as misconduct.

Giving him a weapon in the first place was a tactical blunder. It doesn't matter if it was one man or a hundred. If he had any access to the leaders with weapon in tow, he could have killed them. Right there. Dumbest thing they could possibly do. So my reasoning is here that he joined them. They don't simply arm him because they feared for their own safety. To arm him is to put anybody there at risk of injury or death. You don't arm a captive unless he willingly decided to join you. Do we arm our captives? No, of course not, because it's stupid and strategically erroneous.

 

[Howey]

He was sent there, fighting a war he didn't believe in, he believed it was wrong, and he thought fuck it, and walked off.

Why should someone be sent to another country to murder its people when they don't believe in it?

You do understand he VOLUNTEERED to join the Army. Knowing he would go to Afghanistan.

Don't forget Bergdahl should have never been allowed to join the Army. But Bush needed bodies.

.

 

[idb]

@theDoctorisIn

So, what do you call his participating in target practice with them? Being allowed to carry his own firearm? You know, those fighters aren't dumb. If they knew he would be hostile, they wouldn't endanger themselves by giving a weapon to an enemy captive. The only way he would get a weapon is by joining them, that leads me to this: what about Bergdahl declaring himself a mujahid? And we're attributing this to torture? Stockholm Syndrome? Surely that wasn't the case as he cursed his country aloud in a letter back home. I would assume him to have been in his right mind as he wrote it. We just had an American citizen join those ISIS guys just yesterday. Na. I can't believe that he didn't commit any misconduct while with the enemy.

1. "Participating in target practice" is not misconduct either. He was under no obligation to "be hostile" all the time. He was a captive in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by armed "soldiers". I don't think they had any reason to worry that he was going to shoot them.

2. The source for the claim that he converted to Islam and declared himself a mujahideen is very questionable. Either way, converting to a different religion isn't "misconduct" either.

I can't believe what I'm hearing from you.

Declaring himself as a mujahid is to declare himself a soldier of Islam, or to declare jihad against the US or anyone else. It isn't just joining a religion, it's joining the fight. That within itself is traitorous and classifies as misconduct.

Giving him a weapon in the first place was a tactical blunder. It doesn't matter if it was one man or a hundred. If he had any access to the leaders with weapon in tow, he could have killed them. Right there. Dumbest thing they could possibly do. So my reasoning is here that he joined them. They don't simply arm him because they feared for their own safety. To arm him is to put anybody there at risk of injury or death. You don't arm a captive unless he willingly decided to join you. Do we arm our captives? No, of course not, because it's stupid and strategically erroneous.

You do realise that he wasn't playing a video game, don't you?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Suffice it to say that it's pretty fucking stupid to think that reading British tabloids gives you enough information to make a judgement as to his conduct as a prisoner.

So now instead of an argument, you attack my sources? I've read more than just British tabloids, Doc. You know me better than that. I got that information from Duane Clarridge, former CIA officer, and from the subcontracting firm who helped the Pentagon search for Berdahl, Eclipse Group who in 2012 reported to CENTCOM that Bergdahl "had declared himself a mujahid", and I quote:

Conditions for Bergdahl have greatly relaxed since the time of the escape. Bergdahl has converted to Islam and now describes himself as a mujahid. Bergdahl enjoys a modicum of freedom, and engages in target practice with the local mujahedeen, firing AK47s. Bergdahl is even allowed to carry a loaded gun on occasion. Bergdahl plays soccer with his guards and bounds around the pitch like a mad man. He appears to be well and happy, and has a noticeable habit of laughing frequently and saying ‘Salaam’ repeatedly.

I will acknowledge that some CENTCOM officials, namely Retired U.S. Marine Corps General James N. Mattis denied that the intelligence community never learned of his collaboration and misconduct while in captivity, or the fact that he was in poor mental health, but even still, I don't think they allow for insanity defenses in a court martial hearings. It doesn't explain why he deserted. It doesn't explain why he cursed his country in a letter to his parents.

 

[longly]

I feel sorry for Bergdahl but soldiers and all military for that matter must obey orders; there is no other way. The only real difference between an army and a mob is discipline.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Suffice it to say that it's pretty fucking stupid to think that reading British tabloids gives you enough information to make a judgement as to his conduct as a prisoner.

So now instead of an argument, you attack my sources? I've read more than just British tabloids, Doc. You know me better than that. I got that information from Duane Clarridge, former CIA officer, and from the subcontracting firm who helped the Pentagon search for Berdahl, Eclipse Group who in 2012 reported to CENTCOM that Bergdahl "had declared himself a mujahid", and I quote:

Conditions for Bergdahl have greatly relaxed since the time of the escape. Bergdahl has converted to Islam and now describes himself as a mujahid. Bergdahl enjoys a modicum of freedom, and engages in target practice with the local mujahedeen, firing AK47s. Bergdahl is even allowed to carry a loaded gun on occasion. Bergdahl plays soccer with his guards and bounds around the pitch like a mad man. He appears to be well and happy, and has a noticeable habit of laughing frequently and saying ‘Salaam’ repeatedly.

I will acknowledge that some CENTCOM officials, namely Retired U.S. Marine Corps General James N. Mattis denied that the intelligence community never learned of his collaboration and misconduct while in captivity, or the fact that he was in poor mental health, but even still, I don't think they allow for insanity defenses in a court martial hearings. It doesn't explain why he deserted. It doesn't explain why he cursed his country in a letter to his parents.

Dewey Clarridge and Eclipse Group are pretty much the textbook definition of "untrustworthy sources". There's a reason the government doesn't actually contract with them anymore.

I suggest reading up on his history, and why he's not in the CIA anymore.

 

[TemplarKormac]

1. "Participating in target practice" is not misconduct either. He was under no obligation to "be hostile" all the time. He was a captive in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by armed "soldiers". I don't think they had any reason to worry that he was going to shoot them.

2. The source for the claim that he converted to Islam and declared himself a mujahideen is very questionable. Either way, converting to a different religion isn't "misconduct" either.

I can't believe what I'm hearing from you.

Declaring himself as a mujahid is to declare himself a soldier of Islam, or to declare jihad against the US or anyone else. It isn't just joining a religion, it's joining the fight. That within itself is traitorous and classifies as misconduct.

Giving him a weapon in the first place was a tactical blunder. It doesn't matter if it was one man or a hundred. If he had any access to the leaders with weapon in tow, he could have killed them. Right there. Dumbest thing they could possibly do. So my reasoning is here that he joined them. They don't simply arm him because they feared for their own safety. To arm him is to put anybody there at risk of injury or death. You don't arm a captive unless he willingly decided to join you. Do we arm our captives? No, of course not, because it's stupid and strategically erroneous.

You do realise that he wasn't playing a video game, don't you?

I realize that he wasn't playing any games, idb. Do you think he was playing a video game?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I feel sorry for Bergdahl but soldiers and all military for that matter must obey orders; there is no other way. The only real difference between an army and a mob is discipline.

Stress and other issues will surely come into play. It is an administrative issue. AWOL and Desertion in the US Military

 

[TemplarKormac]

Suffice it to say that it's pretty fucking stupid to think that reading British tabloids gives you enough information to make a judgement as to his conduct as a prisoner.

So now instead of an argument, you attack my sources? I've read more than just British tabloids, Doc. You know me better than that. I got that information from Duane Clarridge, former CIA officer, and from the subcontracting firm who helped the Pentagon search for Berdahl, Eclipse Group who in 2012 reported to CENTCOM that Bergdahl "had declared himself a mujahid", and I quote:

Conditions for Bergdahl have greatly relaxed since the time of the escape. Bergdahl has converted to Islam and now describes himself as a mujahid. Bergdahl enjoys a modicum of freedom, and engages in target practice with the local mujahedeen, firing AK47s. Bergdahl is even allowed to carry a loaded gun on occasion. Bergdahl plays soccer with his guards and bounds around the pitch like a mad man. He appears to be well and happy, and has a noticeable habit of laughing frequently and saying ‘Salaam’ repeatedly.

I will acknowledge that some CENTCOM officials, namely Retired U.S. Marine Corps General James N. Mattis denied that the intelligence community never learned of his collaboration and misconduct while in captivity, or the fact that he was in poor mental health, but even still, I don't think they allow for insanity defenses in a court martial hearings. It doesn't explain why he deserted. It doesn't explain why he cursed his country in a letter to his parents.

Dewey Clarridge and Eclipse Group are pretty much the textbook definition of "untrustworthy sources". There's a reason the government doesn't actually contract with them anymore.

I suggest reading up on his history, and why he's not in the CIA anymore.

But CENTCOM took their reports anyhow. Duane Clarridge was implicated in the Iran Contra scandal, but even then, you can't dismiss the veracity of the report simply for something he did during the Reagan administration, can you? And he runs a 'private spying operation' from what I've read.

That response of yours is a cop out, Doc.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

@theDoctorisIn

So, what do you call his participating in target practice with them? Being allowed to carry his own firearm? You know, those fighters aren't dumb. If they knew he would be hostile, they wouldn't endanger themselves by giving a weapon to an enemy captive. The only way he would get a weapon is by joining them, that leads me to this: what about Bergdahl declaring himself a mujahid? And we're attributing this to torture? Stockholm Syndrome? Surely that wasn't the case as he cursed his country aloud in a letter back home. I would assume him to have been in his right mind as he wrote it. We just had an American citizen join those ISIS guys just yesterday. Na. I can't believe that he didn't commit any misconduct while with the enemy.

1. "Participating in target practice" is not misconduct either. He was under no obligation to "be hostile" all the time. He was a captive in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by armed "soldiers". I don't think they had any reason to worry that he was going to shoot them.

2. The source for the claim that he converted to Islam and declared himself a mujahideen is very questionable. Either way, converting to a different religion isn't "misconduct" either.

I can't believe what I'm hearing from you.

Declaring himself as a mujahid is to declare himself a soldier of Islam, or to declare jihad against the US or anyone else. It isn't just joining a religion, it's joining the fight. That within itself is traitorous and classifies as misconduct.

Giving him a weapon in the first place was a tactical blunder. It doesn't matter if it was one man or a hundred. If he had any access to the leaders with weapon in tow, he could have killed them. Right there. Dumbest thing they could possibly do. So my reasoning is here that he joined them. They don't simply arm him because they feared for their own safety. To arm him is to put anybody there at risk of injury or death. You don't arm a captive unless he willingly decided to join you. Do we arm our captives? No, of course not, because it's stupid and strategically erroneous.

If he had "killed the leader", he would have instantly been killed, and a new "leader" would take their place.

This is the reality, not a Rambo movie. In the real world, a single captive, surrounded by armed enemies and already captive for years would not be considered a threat, even if they let him hold a gun every now and then.

 

[idb]

I can't believe what I'm hearing from you.

Declaring himself as a mujahid is to declare himself a soldier of Islam, or to declare jihad against the US or anyone else. It isn't just joining a religion, it's joining the fight. That within itself is traitorous and classifies as misconduct.

Giving him a weapon in the first place was a tactical blunder. It doesn't matter if it was one man or a hundred. If he had any access to the leaders with weapon in tow, he could have killed them. Right there. Dumbest thing they could possibly do. So my reasoning is here that he joined them. They don't simply arm him because they feared for their own safety. To arm him is to put anybody there at risk of injury or death. You don't arm a captive unless he willingly decided to join you. Do we arm our captives? No, of course not, because it's stupid and strategically erroneous.

You do realise that he wasn't playing a video game, don't you?

I realize that he wasn't playing any games, idb. Do you think he was playing a video game?

But, you think, the moment that he had access to a gun he should have started knocking over his captors.
Every 10 he gets a magic energy crystal - right?

 

[I.P.Freely]

I love how you proceeded to cherry pick my post. First of all, I spoke of his captivity first in the article. Then I spoke of his desertion, i.e. "The reports" Second, I tend to think the desertion is a form of misconduct as well. Even you want him to be cleared of any and all wrongdoing pre or post desertion.

And if anyone loves to rage, it's you, jillian. When you get whomped in an argument you lash out with venom like a Cobra. Do not lecture me, miss.

The evidence is the Taliban themselves saying they 'treated him well' during his captivity. Normally, we call that fraternizing with the enemy. Or are we forgetting something?

Stockholm Syndrome my ass. His declaring jihad against the US is a full blown declaration of war against his country. Sigh....

At least you've stopped digging...but now you're thrashing around like a fish on a hook.

Are you going to contribute something to this discussion or not?

yes, throw tiddlers back.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

So now instead of an argument, you attack my sources? I've read more than just British tabloids, Doc. You know me better than that. I got that information from Duane Clarridge, former CIA officer, and from the subcontracting firm who helped the Pentagon search for Berdahl, Eclipse Group who in 2012 reported to CENTCOM that Bergdahl "had declared himself a mujahid", and I quote:

I will acknowledge that some CENTCOM officials, namely Retired U.S. Marine Corps General James N. Mattis denied that the intelligence community never learned of his collaboration and misconduct while in captivity, or the fact that he was in poor mental health, but even still, I don't think they allow for insanity defenses in a court martial hearings. It doesn't explain why he deserted. It doesn't explain why he cursed his country in a letter to his parents.

Dewey Clarridge and Eclipse Group are pretty much the textbook definition of "untrustworthy sources". There's a reason the government doesn't actually contract with them anymore.

I suggest reading up on his history, and why he's not in the CIA anymore.

But CENTCOM took their reports anyhow. Duane Clarridge was implicated in the Iran Contra scandal, but even then, you can't dismiss the veracity of the report simply for something he did during the Reagan administration, can you? And he runs a 'private spying operation' from what I've read.

That response of yours is a cop out, Doc.

I could write a "report" and mail it to CENTCOM, and they'd "take" it.

"Taking it" isn't the same thing as believing it.