At least 6 dead in random shooting in Kalamazoo County, Michigan, suspect under arrest

[WildBillKelsoe]

We do not have their culture....and our police do not have their police powers, and our prosecutors do not have the powers of their prosecutors.....

You would not live in Japan....you couldn't stand their rules on behavior or the collective guilt their society places on the indivdual to keep them law abiding.

How does any of that explain them not having guns? I thought you guys always say criminals just ignore the law and you can't stop anything.

The Japanese criminals get guns when they want them.....they just don't use them as much or kill each other as often....their criminal sub culture is different from ours...our thugs kill each other and their victims more.....and that isn't access to guns, that is mind set.....

Obviously they can't get guns when they want them, they aren't there to begin with. Not for your average run of the mill criminal.

Rwanda doesn't allow private gun ownership, nor the death penalty. Her murder rate is 23%

Rwanda has an unstable government and a history of civil wars. Why do you guys always look for outliers to prove a point? Why ignore all the countries with fewer guns and fewer murders?

But just the same, I'm not interesting in ridding the US of guns, I just want background checks to include mental illness.

Chad has no private gun ownership, no death penalty and a murder rate of 17%

Brazil doesn't allow gun possession outside a residence and has a murder rate of 23%

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

The Japanese criminals get guns when they want them.....they just don't use them as much or kill each other as often....their criminal sub culture is different from ours...our thugs kill each other and their victims more.....and that isn't access to guns, that is mind set.....

Obviously they can't get guns when they want them, they aren't there to begin with.

Keep telling yourself that.......they want money.....not killing.....if only our thugs were that interested in money over killing they wouldn't shoot each other as often....

Ok, criminals can get guns in Japan whenever they wan. Fine, how many guns are in Japan?

Do you realize that we have 357 million guns in private hands and less than 8,124 of them were used in gun murder...that means that normal, law abiding people had 356,991,876 million guns, and did not use them to murder people...

And the criminals who used them....used them mainly on other criminals in very small, multi block areas of our inner cities...

So guns are not our problem...we use them incredibly responsibly...our problem is criminals who murder easily...unlike criminals in other countries...

We have more gun murders period. Anyway, you two are going way overboard. I feel I have to keep explaining this to you, I'm not anti-gun I just want real background checks.

Michigan has real background checks.

 

[2aguy]

The Japanese criminals get guns when they want them.....they just don't use them as much or kill each other as often....their criminal sub culture is different from ours...our thugs kill each other and their victims more.....and that isn't access to guns, that is mind set.....

Obviously they can't get guns when they want them, they aren't there to begin with.

Keep telling yourself that.......they want money.....not killing.....if only our thugs were that interested in money over killing they wouldn't shoot each other as often....

Ok, criminals can get guns in Japan whenever they wan. Fine, how many guns are in Japan?

Do you realize that we have 357 million guns in private hands and less than 8,124 of them were used in gun murder...that means that normal, law abiding people had 356,991,876 million guns, and did not use them to murder people...

And the criminals who used them....used them mainly on other criminals in very small, multi block areas of our inner cities...

So guns are not our problem...we use them incredibly responsibly...our problem is criminals who murder easily...unlike criminals in other countries...

We have more gun murders period. Anyway, you two are going way overboard. I feel I have to keep explaining this to you, I'm not anti-gun I just want real background checks.

Background checks do not keep guns out of the hands of criminals...

Do you understand why they have all of a sudden changed the wording to their background check laws from "Sale" to "transfer?" Please look into that and see why they did it.....

 

[2aguy]

How does any of that explain them not having guns? I thought you guys always say criminals just ignore the law and you can't stop anything.

The Japanese criminals get guns when they want them.....they just don't use them as much or kill each other as often....their criminal sub culture is different from ours...our thugs kill each other and their victims more.....and that isn't access to guns, that is mind set.....

Obviously they can't get guns when they want them, they aren't there to begin with. Not for your average run of the mill criminal.

Rwanda doesn't allow private gun ownership, nor the death penalty. Her murder rate is 23%

Rwanda has an unstable government and a history of civil wars. Why do you guys always look for outliers to prove a point? Why ignore all the countries with fewer guns and fewer murders?

But just the same, I'm not interesting in ridding the US of guns, I just want background checks to include mental illness.

Chad has no private gun ownership, no death penalty and a murder rate of 17%

Brazil doesn't allow gun possession outside a residence and has a murder rate of 23%

Why go so far.....Mexico is a classic anti gun paradise...and the drug cartels with their government stooges are mass murdering Mexican citizens...and have brought in head chopping and ovens for the victims....

 

[2aguy]

The Japanese criminals get guns when they want them.....they just don't use them as much or kill each other as often....their criminal sub culture is different from ours...our thugs kill each other and their victims more.....and that isn't access to guns, that is mind set.....

Obviously they can't get guns when they want them, they aren't there to begin with.

Keep telling yourself that.......they want money.....not killing.....if only our thugs were that interested in money over killing they wouldn't shoot each other as often....

Ok, criminals can get guns in Japan whenever they wan. Fine, how many guns are in Japan?

Do you realize that we have 357 million guns in private hands and less than 8,124 of them were used in gun murder...that means that normal, law abiding people had 356,991,876 million guns, and did not use them to murder people...

And the criminals who used them....used them mainly on other criminals in very small, multi block areas of our inner cities...

So guns are not our problem...we use them incredibly responsibly...our problem is criminals who murder easily...unlike criminals in other countries...

We have more gun murders period. Anyway, you two are going way overboard. I feel I have to keep explaining this to you, I'm not anti-gun I just want real background checks.

We have more criminals who are willing to commit murder...that is the difference....we have more guns and our gun crime rate went down, not up...how do you explain that?

 

[HappyJoy]

How does any of that explain them not having guns? I thought you guys always say criminals just ignore the law and you can't stop anything.

The Japanese criminals get guns when they want them.....they just don't use them as much or kill each other as often....their criminal sub culture is different from ours...our thugs kill each other and their victims more.....and that isn't access to guns, that is mind set.....

Obviously they can't get guns when they want them, they aren't there to begin with. Not for your average run of the mill criminal.

Rwanda doesn't allow private gun ownership, nor the death penalty. Her murder rate is 23%

Rwanda has an unstable government and a history of civil wars. Why do you guys always look for outliers to prove a point? Why ignore all the countries with fewer guns and fewer murders?

But just the same, I'm not interesting in ridding the US of guns, I just want background checks to include mental illness.

Germany in the 1920s wasn't an outlier....nor was Europe in the 20s......20 years later they marched 12 million people into gas chambers...modern nation states, with modern Universities, the rule of law, democratic institutions and science and phiolosophy......

Oh...and they disarmed their peoples after World War 1..........did them a lot of good....

except Switzerland....435,000 civilians under arms...never invaded, no holocaust...

Seems that is an outlier......

Germany in the 1920s wasn't an outlier? Considering their unique history? Are you fucking serious?

 

[HappyJoy]

Obviously they can't get guns when they want them, they aren't there to begin with.

Keep telling yourself that.......they want money.....not killing.....if only our thugs were that interested in money over killing they wouldn't shoot each other as often....

Ok, criminals can get guns in Japan whenever they wan. Fine, how many guns are in Japan?

Do you realize that we have 357 million guns in private hands and less than 8,124 of them were used in gun murder...that means that normal, law abiding people had 356,991,876 million guns, and did not use them to murder people...

And the criminals who used them....used them mainly on other criminals in very small, multi block areas of our inner cities...

So guns are not our problem...we use them incredibly responsibly...our problem is criminals who murder easily...unlike criminals in other countries...

We have more gun murders period. Anyway, you two are going way overboard. I feel I have to keep explaining this to you, I'm not anti-gun I just want real background checks.

We have more criminals who are willing to commit murder...that is the difference....we have more guns and our gun crime rate went down, not up...how do you explain that?

Again, I'm interested in background checks and gun control, not exclusion.

 

[2aguy]

The Japanese criminals get guns when they want them.....they just don't use them as much or kill each other as often....their criminal sub culture is different from ours...our thugs kill each other and their victims more.....and that isn't access to guns, that is mind set.....

Obviously they can't get guns when they want them, they aren't there to begin with. Not for your average run of the mill criminal.

Rwanda doesn't allow private gun ownership, nor the death penalty. Her murder rate is 23%

Rwanda has an unstable government and a history of civil wars. Why do you guys always look for outliers to prove a point? Why ignore all the countries with fewer guns and fewer murders?

But just the same, I'm not interesting in ridding the US of guns, I just want background checks to include mental illness.

Germany in the 1920s wasn't an outlier....nor was Europe in the 20s......20 years later they marched 12 million people into gas chambers...modern nation states, with modern Universities, the rule of law, democratic institutions and science and phiolosophy......

Oh...and they disarmed their peoples after World War 1..........did them a lot of good....

except Switzerland....435,000 civilians under arms...never invaded, no holocaust...

Seems that is an outlier......

Germany in the 1920s wasn't an outlier? Considering their unique history? Are you fucking serious?

You are calling Rwanda an outlier........and what in the history of then 1920s Germany warned anyone that they would mass murder 12 million innocent men, women and children?

 

[2aguy]

Keep telling yourself that.......they want money.....not killing.....if only our thugs were that interested in money over killing they wouldn't shoot each other as often....

Ok, criminals can get guns in Japan whenever they wan. Fine, how many guns are in Japan?

Do you realize that we have 357 million guns in private hands and less than 8,124 of them were used in gun murder...that means that normal, law abiding people had 356,991,876 million guns, and did not use them to murder people...

And the criminals who used them....used them mainly on other criminals in very small, multi block areas of our inner cities...

So guns are not our problem...we use them incredibly responsibly...our problem is criminals who murder easily...unlike criminals in other countries...

We have more gun murders period. Anyway, you two are going way overboard. I feel I have to keep explaining this to you, I'm not anti-gun I just want real background checks.

We have more criminals who are willing to commit murder...that is the difference....we have more guns and our gun crime rate went down, not up...how do you explain that?

Again, I'm interested in background checks and gun control, not exclusion.

Please answer...why is the new push for Universal Background checks using the word "Transfer" instead of "sale?"

 

[HappyJoy]

Ok, criminals can get guns in Japan whenever they wan. Fine, how many guns are in Japan?

Do you realize that we have 357 million guns in private hands and less than 8,124 of them were used in gun murder...that means that normal, law abiding people had 356,991,876 million guns, and did not use them to murder people...

And the criminals who used them....used them mainly on other criminals in very small, multi block areas of our inner cities...

So guns are not our problem...we use them incredibly responsibly...our problem is criminals who murder easily...unlike criminals in other countries...

We have more gun murders period. Anyway, you two are going way overboard. I feel I have to keep explaining this to you, I'm not anti-gun I just want real background checks.

We have more criminals who are willing to commit murder...that is the difference....we have more guns and our gun crime rate went down, not up...how do you explain that?

Again, I'm interested in background checks and gun control, not exclusion.

Please answer...why is the new push for Universal Background checks using the word "Transfer" instead of "sale?"

I have no idea but I bet you have an awesome conspiracy around it. I'm OK with private sales, but a background check should be involved. If I ever sell mine, I would want to know I didn't put it in the wrong hands.

 

[2aguy]

Do you realize that we have 357 million guns in private hands and less than 8,124 of them were used in gun murder...that means that normal, law abiding people had 356,991,876 million guns, and did not use them to murder people...

And the criminals who used them....used them mainly on other criminals in very small, multi block areas of our inner cities...

So guns are not our problem...we use them incredibly responsibly...our problem is criminals who murder easily...unlike criminals in other countries...

We have more gun murders period. Anyway, you two are going way overboard. I feel I have to keep explaining this to you, I'm not anti-gun I just want real background checks.

We have more criminals who are willing to commit murder...that is the difference....we have more guns and our gun crime rate went down, not up...how do you explain that?

Again, I'm interested in background checks and gun control, not exclusion.

Please answer...why is the new push for Universal Background checks using the word "Transfer" instead of "sale?"

I have no idea but I bet you have an awesome conspiracy around it. I'm OK with private sales, but a background check should be involved. If I ever sell mine, I would want to know I didn't put it in the wrong hands.

You should know what you are asking for....never, ever trust anti gunners...they hide their true intentions.....

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense



The Bloomberg system applies to every firearms “transfer.” In normal firearms law, a “transfer” means “a permanent exchange of title or possession and does not include gratuitous temporary exchanges or loans.” Chow v. State. 393 Md. 431, 473, 903 A.2d 388, 413 (2006).



However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction.

The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system
Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

 

[EverCurious]

This murdering white piece of shit, is alive and well, so relax folks.....he's not some unarmed nigga' reaching for a wallet, or holding his hands up or walking minding his own business....that according to white cops, deserve a motherfuckin bullet in the head...NO, THIS IS YOUR AVERAGE HARD WORKING JUST HAVING A BAD MOTHERFUCKIN DAY, WHITE MOTHERFUCKER...WHO BY ALL ACCOUNTS IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY OF MURDERING 6 INNOCENT PEOPLE, INCLUDING CHILDREN.

"What it looks like, is we have somebody just driving around finding people and shooting them dead in their tracks," Matyas told CNN Saturday. "These are random murders.”

“There is no connection between any of them," he added.

Surveillance video and employees at the car dealership and restaurant helped identify Dalton's vehicle, police said in a Sunday morning news conference. They described the shootings as intentional and noted Dalton had no known criminal record.

He didn't resist arrest, that's why he's still alive. Tell your peeps it works.

"Police seized a semiautomatic handgun from Dalton, whom Getting described as "even-tempered" at the time of his arrest."

 

[HappyJoy]

We have more gun murders period. Anyway, you two are going way overboard. I feel I have to keep explaining this to you, I'm not anti-gun I just want real background checks.

We have more criminals who are willing to commit murder...that is the difference....we have more guns and our gun crime rate went down, not up...how do you explain that?

Again, I'm interested in background checks and gun control, not exclusion.

Please answer...why is the new push for Universal Background checks using the word "Transfer" instead of "sale?"

I have no idea but I bet you have an awesome conspiracy around it. I'm OK with private sales, but a background check should be involved. If I ever sell mine, I would want to know I didn't put it in the wrong hands.

You should know what you are asking for....never, ever trust anti gunners...they hide their true intentions.....

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense



The Bloomberg system applies to every firearms “transfer.” In normal firearms law, a “transfer” means “a permanent exchange of title or possession and does not include gratuitous temporary exchanges or loans.” Chow v. State. 393 Md. 431, 473, 903 A.2d 388, 413 (2006).



However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction.

The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system
Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

Sorry, if you are in possession of a gun you should have to pass a background check. That doesn't mean you can't go to a shooting range and practice. Actually, I'd prefer that you know how to safely handle a gun by passing a safety course before you're allowed to own one or have your buddy store "his" gun at your house for years.

 

[2aguy]

We have more criminals who are willing to commit murder...that is the difference....we have more guns and our gun crime rate went down, not up...how do you explain that?

Again, I'm interested in background checks and gun control, not exclusion.

Please answer...why is the new push for Universal Background checks using the word "Transfer" instead of "sale?"

I have no idea but I bet you have an awesome conspiracy around it. I'm OK with private sales, but a background check should be involved. If I ever sell mine, I would want to know I didn't put it in the wrong hands.

You should know what you are asking for....never, ever trust anti gunners...they hide their true intentions.....

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense



The Bloomberg system applies to every firearms “transfer.” In normal firearms law, a “transfer” means “a permanent exchange of title or possession and does not include gratuitous temporary exchanges or loans.” Chow v. State. 393 Md. 431, 473, 903 A.2d 388, 413 (2006).



However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction.

The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system
Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

Sorry, if you are in possession of a gun you should have to pass a background check. That doesn't mean you can't go to a shooting range and practice. Actually, I'd prefer that you know how to safely handle a gun by passing a safety course before you're allowed to own one. Or have your buddy store "his" gun at your house for years.

So....you are going to ignore the reality of what Everytown is trying to do.......we are not talking about possession...we are talking about even if the other person is a law abiding person who may even have a permit for the gun....any "transfer" at all must have a background check.......that impedes firearm safety training, and lending a gun to a friend at the range....

If you are at a range with a friend who also is a law abiding citizen allowed to own guns...and you let them try your gun....without a background check....are you both now felons? Yes.

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

We have more criminals who are willing to commit murder...that is the difference....we have more guns and our gun crime rate went down, not up...how do you explain that?

Again, I'm interested in background checks and gun control, not exclusion.

Please answer...why is the new push for Universal Background checks using the word "Transfer" instead of "sale?"

I have no idea but I bet you have an awesome conspiracy around it. I'm OK with private sales, but a background check should be involved. If I ever sell mine, I would want to know I didn't put it in the wrong hands.

You should know what you are asking for....never, ever trust anti gunners...they hide their true intentions.....

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense



The Bloomberg system applies to every firearms “transfer.” In normal firearms law, a “transfer” means “a permanent exchange of title or possession and does not include gratuitous temporary exchanges or loans.” Chow v. State. 393 Md. 431, 473, 903 A.2d 388, 413 (2006).



However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction.

The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system
Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

Sorry, if you are in possession of a gun you should have to pass a background check. That doesn't mean you can't go to a shooting range and practice. Actually, I'd prefer that you know how to safely handle a gun by passing a safety course before you're allowed to own one or have your buddy store "his" gun at your house for years.

Michigan has everything you're asking for.

 

[2aguy]

We have more criminals who are willing to commit murder...that is the difference....we have more guns and our gun crime rate went down, not up...how do you explain that?

Again, I'm interested in background checks and gun control, not exclusion.

Please answer...why is the new push for Universal Background checks using the word "Transfer" instead of "sale?"

I have no idea but I bet you have an awesome conspiracy around it. I'm OK with private sales, but a background check should be involved. If I ever sell mine, I would want to know I didn't put it in the wrong hands.

You should know what you are asking for....never, ever trust anti gunners...they hide their true intentions.....

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense



The Bloomberg system applies to every firearms “transfer.” In normal firearms law, a “transfer” means “a permanent exchange of title or possession and does not include gratuitous temporary exchanges or loans.” Chow v. State. 393 Md. 431, 473, 903 A.2d 388, 413 (2006).



However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction.

The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system
Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

Sorry, if you are in possession of a gun you should have to pass a background check. That doesn't mean you can't go to a shooting range and practice. Actually, I'd prefer that you know how to safely handle a gun by passing a safety course before you're allowed to own one or have your buddy store "his" gun at your house for years.

This means if your wife has a concealed carry permit....and is going out, you cannot loan her your gun without taking her to a police station or range to get a background check...if you give your gun to your wife for her trip to the store, you are now both felons...right?

Is that what you want out of background checks?

 

[2aguy]

We have more criminals who are willing to commit murder...that is the difference....we have more guns and our gun crime rate went down, not up...how do you explain that?

Again, I'm interested in background checks and gun control, not exclusion.

Please answer...why is the new push for Universal Background checks using the word "Transfer" instead of "sale?"

I have no idea but I bet you have an awesome conspiracy around it. I'm OK with private sales, but a background check should be involved. If I ever sell mine, I would want to know I didn't put it in the wrong hands.

You should know what you are asking for....never, ever trust anti gunners...they hide their true intentions.....

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense



The Bloomberg system applies to every firearms “transfer.” In normal firearms law, a “transfer” means “a permanent exchange of title or possession and does not include gratuitous temporary exchanges or loans.” Chow v. State. 393 Md. 431, 473, 903 A.2d 388, 413 (2006).



However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction.

The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system
Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

Sorry, if you are in possession of a gun you should have to pass a background check. That doesn't mean you can't go to a shooting range and practice. Actually, I'd prefer that you know how to safely handle a gun by passing a safety course before you're allowed to own one or have your buddy store "his" gun at your house for years.

Here....actually try reading this and try to comprehend what this will do to normal people...


How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense



The Bloomberg system applies to every firearms “transfer.” In normal firearms law, a “transfer” means “a permanent exchange of title or possession and does not include gratuitous temporary exchanges or loans.” Chow v. State. 393 Md. 431, 473, 903 A.2d 388, 413 (2006).



However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.


Is that what you think when you say you want background checks?

 

[2aguy]

We have more criminals who are willing to commit murder...that is the difference....we have more guns and our gun crime rate went down, not up...how do you explain that?

Again, I'm interested in background checks and gun control, not exclusion.

Please answer...why is the new push for Universal Background checks using the word "Transfer" instead of "sale?"

I have no idea but I bet you have an awesome conspiracy around it. I'm OK with private sales, but a background check should be involved. If I ever sell mine, I would want to know I didn't put it in the wrong hands.

You should know what you are asking for....never, ever trust anti gunners...they hide their true intentions.....

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense



The Bloomberg system applies to every firearms “transfer.” In normal firearms law, a “transfer” means “a permanent exchange of title or possession and does not include gratuitous temporary exchanges or loans.” Chow v. State. 393 Md. 431, 473, 903 A.2d 388, 413 (2006).



However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction.

The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system
Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

Sorry, if you are in possession of a gun you should have to pass a background check. That doesn't mean you can't go to a shooting range and practice. Actually, I'd prefer that you know how to safely handle a gun by passing a safety course before you're allowed to own one or have your buddy store "his" gun at your house for years.

Is this what you want when you say you want a background check....?

Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction.

The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.

In the classroom, students are taught how to handle guns safely. Some safety skills can be taught with inert, plastic replicas — for example, the lesson that a person should always keep a gun pointed in a safe direction, or that a person should keep her finger off the trigger until a gun is on target. Learning other safety skills, though, requires using a real gun. For example, when a person hands a gun to someone else, she must first make sure that the gun is unloaded, that the safety is “on” and that the gun is inoperable because the “action” is open. For this latter requirement, this would mean that a double-barreled shotgun is broken open so that the hinged barrels are not aligned with the rest of the gun. For a semiautomatic gun, it would mean that the slide is locked back into the open position. For a revolver, it would mean that the cylinder is swung open, and not inside the rest of the gun. The training requires real guns with moving parts.

Another element of safety instruction is teaching students how to safely load and unload a gun. This is typically done by using real guns along with inert dummy ammunition. (The dummy ammunition is orange so that it can instantly be distinguished from real ammunition.) During the course of instruction, the instructors and students may “transfer” firearms dozens of times, with each transfer lasting only seconds or minutes.

Under the Bloomberg laws, the above activities are allowed only if they take place at a firing range owned by a corporation. Pre-Bloomberg, these classes had been commonly offered in office buildings, churches, schools, and homes. Limiting the classes to target ranges makes the classes much more inconvenient.

Target ranges are often located on the outskirts of town, not where most people live. In rural areas, there may be many places where shooting is lawful and safe, but the nearest corporate-owned shooting range may be far away. The likely result will be fewer people taking safety classes.

In Washington, the state government says that Hunter Education instructors for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife work for a law enforcement agency, and are therefore exempt under the terms of the Washington Bloomberg statute. However, those instructors, according to the state government, cannot allow “student-to-student transfers of firearms.”

Nor does the exemption help the many instructors and students who take courses other than the state’s hunter safety program. These non-exempted instructors teach courses for students who are not interested in obtaining a hunting license, but who are interested in learning how to own and use firearms responsibly.


Sooooo....by background checks you want fewer opportunities for normal people to get gun safety education and firearm training...is that what you think of when you say you want background checks?

 

[HappyJoy]

Again, I'm interested in background checks and gun control, not exclusion.

Please answer...why is the new push for Universal Background checks using the word "Transfer" instead of "sale?"

I have no idea but I bet you have an awesome conspiracy around it. I'm OK with private sales, but a background check should be involved. If I ever sell mine, I would want to know I didn't put it in the wrong hands.

You should know what you are asking for....never, ever trust anti gunners...they hide their true intentions.....

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense



The Bloomberg system applies to every firearms “transfer.” In normal firearms law, a “transfer” means “a permanent exchange of title or possession and does not include gratuitous temporary exchanges or loans.” Chow v. State. 393 Md. 431, 473, 903 A.2d 388, 413 (2006).



However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction.

The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system
Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

Sorry, if you are in possession of a gun you should have to pass a background check. That doesn't mean you can't go to a shooting range and practice. Actually, I'd prefer that you know how to safely handle a gun by passing a safety course before you're allowed to own one. Or have your buddy store "his" gun at your house for years.

So....you are going to ignore the reality of what Everytown is trying to do.......we are not talking about possession...we are talking about even if the other person is a law abiding person who may even have a permit for the gun....any "transfer" at all must have a background check.......that impedes firearm safety training, and lending a gun to a friend at the range....

If you are at a range with a friend who also is a law abiding citizen allowed to own guns...and you let them try your gun....without a background check....are you both now felons? Yes.

I think I answered your question, you're not listening.

In order to own a gun you need to pass a background check and take a safety course. That is what I feel. I think in order to shoot a gun you need to pass a background check but not necessarily own the gun hence, you can share guns with your buddies at the range. A shooting range should be able to administer background checks.

I'm not for getting rid of all guns, I'm not for the status quo either.

 

[2aguy]

Please answer...why is the new push for Universal Background checks using the word "Transfer" instead of "sale?"

I have no idea but I bet you have an awesome conspiracy around it. I'm OK with private sales, but a background check should be involved. If I ever sell mine, I would want to know I didn't put it in the wrong hands.

You should know what you are asking for....never, ever trust anti gunners...they hide their true intentions.....

How Everytown’s background check law impedes firearms safety training and self-defense



The Bloomberg system applies to every firearms “transfer.” In normal firearms law, a “transfer” means “a permanent exchange of title or possession and does not include gratuitous temporary exchanges or loans.” Chow v. State. 393 Md. 431, 473, 903 A.2d 388, 413 (2006).



However, the Bloomberg laws create a very different definition. For example, the Washington state law says that “ ‘Transfer’ means the intended delivery of a firearm to another person without consideration of payment or promise of payment including, but not limited to, gifts and loans.” Rev. Code Wash. § 9.41.010(25).

In other words, it applies to sharing a gun while target shooting on one’s own property, or to lending a gun to a neighbor for a weekend hunting trip.

Under the Bloomberg system, transfers may take place only at a gun store. The transfer must be conducted exactly as if the retailer were selling a firearm out of her inventory. So the transferee (the neighbor borrowing the hunting gun) must fill out ATF Form 4473; the retailer must contact the FBI or its state counterpart for a background check on the transferee; and then, the retailer must take custody of the gun and record the acquisition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. Finally, the retailer hands the gun to the transferee and records the disposition in her Acquisition and Disposition book. A few days later, after the hunting trip is over, the process must be repeated for the neighbor to return the gun to the owner; this time, the owner will be the “transferee,” who will fill out Form 4473 and undergo the background check.
--------------
Safety training

Sensible firearms policy should encourage, not impede, safety instruction.

The Bloomberg laws do just the opposite. They do so by making ordinary safety training impossible unless it takes place at a corporate target range. (The federal S. 374 allows transfers “at a shooting range located in or on premises owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization organized for conservation purposes or to foster proficiency in firearms.”)

A target range is usually necessary for the component of some safety courses that includes “live fire” — in which students fire guns at a range under the supervision of an instructor. However, even the courses that have live fire also have an extensive classroom component. Some introductory courses are classroom-only. In the classroom, dozens of firearms transfers will take place. Many students may not yet own a firearm; even if a student does own a firearm, many instructors choose to allow only their own personal firearms in the classroom, as the instructor may want to teach particular facts about particular types of firearms. The instructor also wants to use firearms that he or she is certain are in good working order. In any classroom setting, functional ammunition is absolutely forbidden.
****************
The next article in the series...private sharing on private property, with a link to long term storage article...

Sharing firearms for informal target shooting: Another legitimate activity outlawed by Everytown’s ‘universal background checks’

Here are two things that a person might do with a firearm: 1. Sell the firearm to a complete stranger in a parking lot. 2. Share the firearm with a friend, while target shooting on one’s own property. Michael Bloomberg’s “Everytown” lobby is promoting “universal background checks” as a means of addressing activity No. 1. But the Bloomberg laws also outlaw activity No. 2. In a previous post, I detailed how the unusual Bloomberg laws about “background checks” for “private sales” constrict safety training and self-defense; and also obstruct safe storage. This post addresses another non-sales activity, firearms sharing.
*************
How background checks affect long term storage when owner is away and wants to leave guns with friends...
Safe storage of firearms: The harms from Bloomberg’s strange background check system
Although the Bloomberg system is promoted as addressing private sales of firearms, the Bloomberg laws as written apply to all firearms loans — whether for a few seconds or a few weeks. There are some limited exceptions (e.g., certain family members, or at a corporate target range). But these exceptions do not apply to safe storage situations.

Consider a person who will be away from home for an extended period, such as a member of the armed services being deployed overseas, a person going away to school, a family going on a long vacation, or someone evacuating her home due to a natural disaster. Such persons might wish to store firearms with a trusted friend or neighbor for months or years. Under the Bloomberg system, for the friend or neighbor to store the firearms, the following procedures must be followed:

The owner and the bailee must find a gun store that is willing to process the loan. The store must treat the loan as if it were selling a firearm out of its inventory. Under the threat of a five-year federal prison sentence for perjury, the bailee and gun store must answer the dozens of questions on ATF Form 4473. Next, the gun store contacts the FBI or a state counterpart for permission to proceed with the sale. Under ideal circumstances, permission to proceed is granted in less than 10 minutes. The retailer then logs the gun into his Acquisition and Disposition record book, as an acquisition. He next logs the gun out of the record book, as a disposition. He hands the firearm to the bailee. The process must be followed for every firearm. If there are two are more handguns, the store must send additional forms to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Depending on the state, a fee is charged for each background check requested. The gun store, of course, will process this transaction only if it can charge a fee to compensate it for handling the paperwork. Unlike with an inventory sale, the gun store is not making any profit on the gun itself.

Later, when the bailor returns and is ready to take custody of her firearms, the entire process must be repeated, with bailor and bailee both taking all the guns to the gun store, before they may be returned to the bailor.

Sorry, if you are in possession of a gun you should have to pass a background check. That doesn't mean you can't go to a shooting range and practice. Actually, I'd prefer that you know how to safely handle a gun by passing a safety course before you're allowed to own one. Or have your buddy store "his" gun at your house for years.

So....you are going to ignore the reality of what Everytown is trying to do.......we are not talking about possession...we are talking about even if the other person is a law abiding person who may even have a permit for the gun....any "transfer" at all must have a background check.......that impedes firearm safety training, and lending a gun to a friend at the range....

If you are at a range with a friend who also is a law abiding citizen allowed to own guns...and you let them try your gun....without a background check....are you both now felons? Yes.

I think I answered your question, you're not listening.

In order to own a gun you need to pass a background check and take a safety course. That is what I feel. I think in order to shoot a gun you need to pass a background check but not necessarily own the gun hence, you can share guns with your buddies at the range. A shooting range should be able to administer background checks.

I'm not for getting rid of all guns, I'm not for the status quo either.

Yes......you are ignoring what is really the point to Universal Background Checks which I have just shown you in those articles......

Sticking your finger in your ears and humming really loud does not change what they are trying to do as you chant "Background checks....background checks....."