Athiest Playbook

[sealybobo]

Let me give you a great example of how stupid people are. The bible says you will not see a ghost of someone who died in your house or a long lost love one when you go see a Medium. You know that right? Well what percent of Americans believe in ghosts?

45 percent of Americans believe in ghosts, or that the spirits of dead people can come back in certain places and situations. That's pretty much half. How many of these people are Christians? I'd say a hell of a lot of them.

The Bible negates the idea that the spirits of deceased human beings can remain on earth and “haunt” the living.

Hebrews 9:27 declares, “Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” That is what happens to a person’s soul-spirit after death—judgment. The result of this judgment is heaven for the believer (2 Corinthians 5:6-8;Philippians 1:23) and hell for the unbeliever (Matthew 25:46;Luke 16:22-24). There is no in-between. There is no possibility of remaining on earth in spirit form as a “ghost.” If there are such things as ghosts, according to the Bible, they absolutely cannot be the disembodied spirits of deceased human beings.

This is yours (or someone's) interpretation of what might be concluded from scriptural proof-texts. They have formed a belief there are no ghosts and then go through scripture looking for text that supports their conclusions (totally ignoring the fact none of these texts were addressing a question about spirits or loved ones remaining on, or returning to, earth).

If you would like to present me the actual scripture that says addresses the possibility of ghosts/spirits on earth, please do so. The one that immediately comes to mind is Matthew's account says that after Christ's crucifixion, people saw some of their dead loved ones.

It’s in the Bible, Job 7:9-10, NKJV. “As the cloud disappears and vanishes away, so he who goes down to the grave does not come up. He shall never return to his house, Nor shall his place know him anymore."

It’s in the Bible, Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, NKJV. “For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun.”

What does the Bible say about those who communicate with familiar spirits? It's in the Bible, Leviticus 19:31, NKJV. "Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God."

Ghosts are real, but they are not angels from God or our dead loved ones. They are fallen angels trying to deceive us. It’s in the Bible, Ephesians 6:11-12, KJV. "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

New Living Translation
No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.

 

[sealybobo]

You're trying to use something you dreamed as evidence?

Please go back and re-read my post. I said if I had a dream you would not require physical evidence to believe that I had that specific dream. If I said I had a dream about a horse, would not insist I produce this dream horse in its physical form--otherwise you could only conclude I was dreaming about a cow.

And you say if us atheists don't believe you we won't go to heaven? Or we don't get it because we haven't opened our hearts and minds to the possibility? Oh pahleez.

I never said this. In fact, I said this is not what all of Christianity teaches--it's the teaching of a few, minority sects.

Seems to me more Christians believe all non christians go to hell than the opposite.

 

[Meriweather]

Let me give you a great example of how stupid people are. The bible says you will not see a ghost of someone who died in your house or a long lost love one when you go see a Medium. You know that right? Well what percent of Americans believe in ghosts?

45 percent of Americans believe in ghosts, or that the spirits of dead people can come back in certain places and situations. That's pretty much half. How many of these people are Christians? I'd say a hell of a lot of them.

The Bible negates the idea that the spirits of deceased human beings can remain on earth and “haunt” the living.

Hebrews 9:27 declares, “Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” That is what happens to a person’s soul-spirit after death—judgment. The result of this judgment is heaven for the believer (2 Corinthians 5:6-8;Philippians 1:23) and hell for the unbeliever (Matthew 25:46;Luke 16:22-24). There is no in-between. There is no possibility of remaining on earth in spirit form as a “ghost.” If there are such things as ghosts, according to the Bible, they absolutely cannot be the disembodied spirits of deceased human beings.

This is yours (or someone's) interpretation of what might be concluded from scriptural proof-texts. They have formed a belief there are no ghosts and then go through scripture looking for text that supports their conclusions (totally ignoring the fact none of these texts were addressing a question about spirits or loved ones remaining on, or returning to, earth).

If you would like to present me the actual scripture that says addresses the possibility of ghosts/spirits on earth, please do so. The one that immediately comes to mind is Matthew's account says that after Christ's crucifixion, people saw some of their dead loved ones.

It’s in the Bible, Job 7:9-10, NKJV. “As the cloud disappears and vanishes away, so he who goes down to the grave does not come up. He shall never return to his house, Nor shall his place know him anymore."

It’s in the Bible, Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, NKJV. “For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun.”

What does the Bible say about those who communicate with familiar spirits? It's in the Bible, Leviticus 19:31, NKJV. "Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God."

Ghosts are real, but they are not angels from God or our dead loved ones. They are fallen angels trying to deceive us. It’s in the Bible, Ephesians 6:11-12, KJV. "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

New Living Translation
No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.

Nice proof-texts. What is missing is that each one also has a context. None of the original contexts addresses your specific conclusion. You have simply gathered a bunch of proof-text straw together to support your conclusion.

 

[Meriweather]

Seems to me more Christians believe all non christians go to hell than the opposite.

Statistically, Catholics, Orthodox, and a few other denominations greatly outnumber the Protestants who vocally announce non-Christians (and some include Catholics and Orthodox in the non-Christian category) are going to hell.

If the majority of Christians you listen to are Evangelicals and Reform, then you may well overlook what the other Christians say/teach.

 

[sealybobo]

Seems to me more Christians believe all non christians go to hell than the opposite.

Statistically, Catholics, Orthodox, and a few other denominations greatly outnumber the Protestants who vocally announce non-Christians (and some include Catholics and Orthodox in the non-Christian category) are going to hell.

If the majority of Christians you listen to are Evangelicals and Reform, then you may well overlook what the other Christians say/teach.

Really? Because many Catholics sound just like the Protestants. In fact look how many conservative Catholics hate I mean HATE the new Pope for not following dogma.

You can't even say Catholics are cashews and Protestants are peanuts and Lutherans R almonds. The fact is Catholics are themselves a mixed bag of nuts. You can't even say all Catholics are cashews because they're not. In fact I think religious people are like snowflakes. you can even say catholics are cashews and protestant are peanuts and lutheran r almonds. The fact is catholics are themselves a mixed bag of knots. You can even say all catholics are cashews because they're not. In fact I think religious people are like snowflakes. No two exactly alike.

Now us atheists on the other hand are all on the same page yes one he says there is no god you ask another she says there is no God. At the zoo not the Muhammad not the Abraham not the Moses not to marry all Peter Jesus Joseph Smith Jehovah Witness Scientology Lutheran Protestant Catholic Baptist oh my lord

 

[sealybobo]

Let me give you a great example of how stupid people are. The bible says you will not see a ghost of someone who died in your house or a long lost love one when you go see a Medium. You know that right? Well what percent of Americans believe in ghosts?

45 percent of Americans believe in ghosts, or that the spirits of dead people can come back in certain places and situations. That's pretty much half. How many of these people are Christians? I'd say a hell of a lot of them.

The Bible negates the idea that the spirits of deceased human beings can remain on earth and “haunt” the living.

Hebrews 9:27 declares, “Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” That is what happens to a person’s soul-spirit after death—judgment. The result of this judgment is heaven for the believer (2 Corinthians 5:6-8;Philippians 1:23) and hell for the unbeliever (Matthew 25:46;Luke 16:22-24). There is no in-between. There is no possibility of remaining on earth in spirit form as a “ghost.” If there are such things as ghosts, according to the Bible, they absolutely cannot be the disembodied spirits of deceased human beings.

This is yours (or someone's) interpretation of what might be concluded from scriptural proof-texts. They have formed a belief there are no ghosts and then go through scripture looking for text that supports their conclusions (totally ignoring the fact none of these texts were addressing a question about spirits or loved ones remaining on, or returning to, earth).

If you would like to present me the actual scripture that says addresses the possibility of ghosts/spirits on earth, please do so. The one that immediately comes to mind is Matthew's account says that after Christ's crucifixion, people saw some of their dead loved ones.

It’s in the Bible, Job 7:9-10, NKJV. “As the cloud disappears and vanishes away, so he who goes down to the grave does not come up. He shall never return to his house, Nor shall his place know him anymore."

It’s in the Bible, Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, NKJV. “For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun.”

What does the Bible say about those who communicate with familiar spirits? It's in the Bible, Leviticus 19:31, NKJV. "Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God."

Ghosts are real, but they are not angels from God or our dead loved ones. They are fallen angels trying to deceive us. It’s in the Bible, Ephesians 6:11-12, KJV. "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

New Living Translation
No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven.

Nice proof-texts. What is missing is that each one also has a context. None of the original contexts addresses your specific conclusion. You have simply gathered a bunch of proof-text straw together to support your conclusion.

Hey if my text come off as rude I don't mean them to come off that way I'm rereading one of them and I hope you are not getting offended. I'm having a great conversation with you and not trying to offend you with my comments just trying to be blunt and matter-of-fact and not beat around any bushes

 

[sealybobo]

Seems to me more Christians believe all non christians go to hell than the opposite.

Statistically, Catholics, Orthodox, and a few other denominations greatly outnumber the Protestants who vocally announce non-Christians (and some include Catholics and Orthodox in the non-Christian category) are going to hell.

If the majority of Christians you listen to are Evangelicals and Reform, then you may well overlook what the other Christians say/teach.

I have a catholic friend. Man what a wonderful guy. I love him. We stopped talking for awhile because of this stuff. He got too offended.

I never understood that. If he truly believed then why would you ever have any anger towards someone who is doomed for hell? And by the way he believes if you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior you will not go to heaven in fact he believes you'll go to hell. Like I said he's a great guy but that's his belief and I cannot agree not even close. He also believes an angel saved him before he believes in exorcisms and strangely enough how come exorcisims only happen to Catholic people? I know there are a few exceptions but you know what I mean. The fact is if anybody non-catholic ever was possessed chances are they watched a movie about possessions and they had schizophrenic mental problems

 

[Meriweather]

Seems to me more Christians believe all non christians go to hell than the opposite.

Statistically, Catholics, Orthodox, and a few other denominations greatly outnumber the Protestants who vocally announce non-Christians (and some include Catholics and Orthodox in the non-Christian category) are going to hell.

If the majority of Christians you listen to are Evangelicals and Reform, then you may well overlook what the other Christians say/teach.

Really? Because many Catholics sound just like the Protestants. In fact look how many conservative Catholics hate I mean HATE the new Pope for not following dogma.

You can't even say Catholics are cashews and Protestants are peanuts and Lutherans R almonds. The fact is Catholics are themselves a mixed bag of nuts. You can't even say all Catholics are cashews because they're not. In fact I think religious people are like snowflakes. you can even say catholics are cashews and protestant are peanuts and lutheran r almonds. The fact is catholics are themselves a mixed bag of knots. You can even say all catholics are cashews because they're not. In fact I think religious people are like snowflakes. No two exactly alike.

Now us atheists on the other hand are all on the same page yes one he says there is no god you ask another she says there is no God. At the zoo not the Muhammad not the Abraham not the Moses not to marry all Peter Jesus Joseph Smith Jehovah Witness Scientology Lutheran Protestant Catholic Baptist oh my lord

Some of the greatest Catholics of all times disagreed with each other, which is true of other religions as well. Sure, you can probably find a few Catholics whose personal opinion is that non-Catholics are in hell. But it is not Catholic teaching, and it certainly is not prevailing Catholic opinion. It is certainly not Catholic teaching. On the other side, you probably find people whose denomination teaches hell to all non-Christians who are not of this opinion. So, either way, "Non-Christians going to hell" is the minority teaching/opinion.

As for the Pope: Two problems. First, the news media gets the facts all wrong. Can't tell you how many times I've read a secular article on something the Pope supposedly said, knew it couldn't be correct, and so took the time to find three sources of what the Pope actually said--and those reports made sense because they followed Catholic teaching. Some of what the Pope has said has been well-known Catholic teaching for over forty years. The news media acts like the teaching just arose day before yesterday. I guess it is time they woke up, but it's kind of amusing. They're reporting yesterday's news.

Just like anything else, Catholics have a fringe element. The majority of Catholics are happy with the Pope, but news wise, that's ho-hum. However, find a fringe element of Catholics who are adamantly against the Pope and pair that with a non-Catholic element highly in favor of the Pope, and that makes interesting news. It's more than a bit skewed, but hey! It's interesting.

As for all you atheists being on the same page: That statement isn't even true for the atheists within my own family. I may as well say, "All believers are on the same page because we believe in God."

 

[Meriweather]

Hey if my text come off as rude I don't mean them to come off that way I'm rereading one of them and I hope you are not getting offended. I'm having a great conversation with you and not trying to offend you with my comments just trying to be blunt and matter-of-fact and not beat around any bushes

I don't find you in the least rude. You are direct and to the point, and I like that. I am not offended. This is like a badminton game or any other type of game of strategy for that matter. I'm studying your strategy so that I can develop a strategy of my own. You know your game; I know mine. I'm not even out to win (or lose). I just enjoy playing.

 

[sealybobo]

Seems to me more Christians believe all non christians go to hell than the opposite.

Statistically, Catholics, Orthodox, and a few other denominations greatly outnumber the Protestants who vocally announce non-Christians (and some include Catholics and Orthodox in the non-Christian category) are going to hell.

If the majority of Christians you listen to are Evangelicals and Reform, then you may well overlook what the other Christians say/teach.

Really? Because many Catholics sound just like the Protestants. In fact look how many conservative Catholics hate I mean HATE the new Pope for not following dogma.

You can't even say Catholics are cashews and Protestants are peanuts and Lutherans R almonds. The fact is Catholics are themselves a mixed bag of nuts. You can't even say all Catholics are cashews because they're not. In fact I think religious people are like snowflakes. you can even say catholics are cashews and protestant are peanuts and lutheran r almonds. The fact is catholics are themselves a mixed bag of knots. You can even say all catholics are cashews because they're not. In fact I think religious people are like snowflakes. No two exactly alike.

Now us atheists on the other hand are all on the same page yes one he says there is no god you ask another she says there is no God. At the zoo not the Muhammad not the Abraham not the Moses not to marry all Peter Jesus Joseph Smith Jehovah Witness Scientology Lutheran Protestant Catholic Baptist oh my lord

Some of the greatest Catholics of all times disagreed with each other, which is true of other religions as well. Sure, you can probably find a few Catholics whose personal opinion is that non-Catholics are in hell. But it is not Catholic teaching, and it certainly is not prevailing Catholic opinion. It is certainly not Catholic teaching. On the other side, you probably find people whose denomination teaches hell to all non-Christians who are not of this opinion. So, either way, "Non-Christians going to hell" is the minority teaching/opinion.

As for the Pope: Two problems. First, the news media gets the facts all wrong. Can't tell you how many times I've read a secular article on something the Pope supposedly said, knew it couldn't be correct, and so took the time to find three sources of what the Pope actually said--and those reports made sense because they followed Catholic teaching. Some of what the Pope has said has been well-known Catholic teaching for over forty years. The news media acts like the teaching just arose day before yesterday. I guess it is time they woke up, but it's kind of amusing. They're reporting yesterday's news.

Just like anything else, Catholics have a fringe element. The majority of Catholics are happy with the Pope, but news wise, that's ho-hum. However, find a fringe element of Catholics who are adamantly against the Pope and pair that with a non-Catholic element highly in favor of the Pope, and that makes interesting news. It's more than a bit skewed, but hey! It's interesting.

As for all you atheists being on the same page: That statement isn't even true for the atheists within my own family. I may as well say, "All believers are on the same page because we believe in God."

Before I forget, yes your church has become more and more liberal as of late. Soon we will have women priests and married priests and gay weddings and birth control will soon be OK just like athiests are apparently cool now.

You do know the history of the Catholic church right? It wasn't always so liberal like you. Do you know about Bruno Giordano? The church stoned him to death for dare saying the universe was bigger than they thought. Blasphemy they said and stoned him. You Christians aren't nearly as bad as you used to be as for Muslims they have a ways to go. At least Muslims in other countries. Here in America they seem alright

 

[sealybobo]

Seems to me more Christians believe all non christians go to hell than the opposite.

Statistically, Catholics, Orthodox, and a few other denominations greatly outnumber the Protestants who vocally announce non-Christians (and some include Catholics and Orthodox in the non-Christian category) are going to hell.

If the majority of Christians you listen to are Evangelicals and Reform, then you may well overlook what the other Christians say/teach.

Really? Because many Catholics sound just like the Protestants. In fact look how many conservative Catholics hate I mean HATE the new Pope for not following dogma.

You can't even say Catholics are cashews and Protestants are peanuts and Lutherans R almonds. The fact is Catholics are themselves a mixed bag of nuts. You can't even say all Catholics are cashews because they're not. In fact I think religious people are like snowflakes. you can even say catholics are cashews and protestant are peanuts and lutheran r almonds. The fact is catholics are themselves a mixed bag of knots. You can even say all catholics are cashews because they're not. In fact I think religious people are like snowflakes. No two exactly alike.

Now us atheists on the other hand are all on the same page yes one he says there is no god you ask another she says there is no God. At the zoo not the Muhammad not the Abraham not the Moses not to marry all Peter Jesus Joseph Smith Jehovah Witness Scientology Lutheran Protestant Catholic Baptist oh my lord

Some of the greatest Catholics of all times disagreed with each other, which is true of other religions as well. Sure, you can probably find a few Catholics whose personal opinion is that non-Catholics are in hell. But it is not Catholic teaching, and it certainly is not prevailing Catholic opinion. It is certainly not Catholic teaching. On the other side, you probably find people whose denomination teaches hell to all non-Christians who are not of this opinion. So, either way, "Non-Christians going to hell" is the minority teaching/opinion.

As for the Pope: Two problems. First, the news media gets the facts all wrong. Can't tell you how many times I've read a secular article on something the Pope supposedly said, knew it couldn't be correct, and so took the time to find three sources of what the Pope actually said--and those reports made sense because they followed Catholic teaching. Some of what the Pope has said has been well-known Catholic teaching for over forty years. The news media acts like the teaching just arose day before yesterday. I guess it is time they woke up, but it's kind of amusing. They're reporting yesterday's news.

Just like anything else, Catholics have a fringe element. The majority of Catholics are happy with the Pope, but news wise, that's ho-hum. However, find a fringe element of Catholics who are adamantly against the Pope and pair that with a non-Catholic element highly in favor of the Pope, and that makes interesting news. It's more than a bit skewed, but hey! It's interesting.

As for all you atheists being on the same page: That statement isn't even true for the atheists within my own family. I may as well say, "All believers are on the same page because we believe in God."

You are right. Boss has exposed me for my hypocracy because I believe in karma.

Do I really believe? No. It can be rationalized out of my head. No hell for Hitler probably. This is more wishful thinking that good lives forever and bad pays.

 

[Meriweather]

I have a catholic friend. Man what a wonderful guy. I love him. We stopped talking for awhile because of this stuff. He got too offended.

I never understood that. If he truly believed then why would you ever have any anger towards someone who is doomed for hell? And by the way he believes if you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior you will not go to heaven in fact he believes you'll go to hell. Like I said he's a great guy but that's his belief and I cannot agree not even close. He also believes an angel saved him before he believes in exorcisms and strangely enough how come exorcisims only happen to Catholic people? I know there are a few exceptions but you know what I mean. The fact is if anybody non-catholic ever was possessed chances are they watched a movie about possessions and they had schizophrenic mental problems

I know of few lay people who developed the interest and passion I have for continually studying scripture and Catholicism. "Accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior" is not Catholic terminology, so he picked up something somewhere else, perhaps thinking that since Catholics accept Jesus as Lord, and Jesus as savior, it must be Catholic shorthand.

Yes, there are records of non-Catholics being possessed and exorcised, but it usually the Catholics who get the attention when this subject comes up. Peck (psychiatrist) wrote a book on how he, a non-Catholic, came to believe in exorcisms and he had data on true accounts. While Catholics don't advertise possession and exorcism, when Hollywood wants to make a movie, or researches wish to collect data, it is the Catholic Church that has that data.

As far as your friend becoming angry: School and Church can only teach us so much, take us so far. Life is so busy and most people simply don't have time to make learning scripture, their religion from top to bottom a priority. If you push your friend into a corner and he can't see a way out, he's going to be angry for two reasons: First, you pushed him; second, he knows there is an answer and he should be able to see his way out, but it is beyond his reach. Sometimes atheists might push their friends into giving them an answer RIGHT NOW. If they can't, they take on the attitude they have proven their point. If the situation ever arise again, why not suggest to your friend, "Hey, don't worry about it right now. Why don't you do some reading or asking around and get back to me when you get the chance."

 

[sealybobo]

Hey if my text come off as rude I don't mean them to come off that way I'm rereading one of them and I hope you are not getting offended. I'm having a great conversation with you and not trying to offend you with my comments just trying to be blunt and matter-of-fact and not beat around any bushes

I don't find you in the least rude. You are direct and to the point, and I like that. I am not offended. This is like a badminton game or any other type of game of strategy for that matter. I'm studying your strategy so that I can develop a strategy of my own. You know your game; I know mine. I'm not even out to win (or lose). I just enjoy playing.

We all know that to believe you got to have faith. To have faith you got to believe. So for someone who was born into faith and fall out of it because I don't believe, that's very difficult to overcome for someone who

A. Isn't mad about anything.
B. Would love nothing more to believe.

So when people accuse Tyson sagen or myself of being angry for the wrong reasons, that's not true.

I know the definition of God is can and should be good but in too many ways it's not. When more Christians join your flock I should see it here right? Or Muslims? I took a poll seems 50 50 on the hell thing.

 

[sealybobo]

I have a catholic friend. Man what a wonderful guy. I love him. We stopped talking for awhile because of this stuff. He got too offended.

I never understood that. If he truly believed then why would you ever have any anger towards someone who is doomed for hell? And by the way he believes if you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior you will not go to heaven in fact he believes you'll go to hell. Like I said he's a great guy but that's his belief and I cannot agree not even close. He also believes an angel saved him before he believes in exorcisms and strangely enough how come exorcisims only happen to Catholic people? I know there are a few exceptions but you know what I mean. The fact is if anybody non-catholic ever was possessed chances are they watched a movie about possessions and they had schizophrenic mental problems

I know of few lay people who developed the interest and passion I have for continually studying scripture and Catholicism. "Accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior" is not Catholic terminology, so he picked up something somewhere else, perhaps thinking that since Catholics accept Jesus as Lord, and Jesus as savior, it must be Catholic shorthand.

Yes, there are records of non-Catholics being possessed and exorcised, but it usually the Catholics who get the attention when this subject comes up. Peck (psychiatrist) wrote a book on how he, a non-Catholic, came to believe in exorcisms and he had data on true accounts. While Catholics don't advertise possession and exorcism, when Hollywood wants to make a movie, or researches wish to collect data, it is the Catholic Church that has that data.

As far as your friend becoming angry: School and Church can only teach us so much, take us so far. Life is so busy and most people simply don't have time to make learning scripture, their religion from top to bottom a priority. If you push your friend into a corner and he can't see a way out, he's going to be angry for two reasons: First, you pushed him; second, he knows there is an answer and he should be able to see his way out, but it is beyond his reach. Sometimes atheists might push their friends into giving them an answer RIGHT NOW. If they can't, they take on the attitude they have proven their point. If the situation ever arise again, why not suggest to your friend, "Hey, don't worry about it right now. Why don't you do some reading or asking around and get back to me when you get the chance."

That happens to me in politics and religion. I need to think for a day or minute because you gotta come up with a good 30 second elevator pitch or you will lose them.

This crazy woman was talking about abortion and what the Bible says in a restaurant while I was having breakfast one day. I thought if I were to have a conversation with her where would I start? Lol

 

[sealybobo]

I have a catholic friend. Man what a wonderful guy. I love him. We stopped talking for awhile because of this stuff. He got too offended.

I never understood that. If he truly believed then why would you ever have any anger towards someone who is doomed for hell? And by the way he believes if you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior you will not go to heaven in fact he believes you'll go to hell. Like I said he's a great guy but that's his belief and I cannot agree not even close. He also believes an angel saved him before he believes in exorcisms and strangely enough how come exorcisims only happen to Catholic people? I know there are a few exceptions but you know what I mean. The fact is if anybody non-catholic ever was possessed chances are they watched a movie about possessions and they had schizophrenic mental problems

I know of few lay people who developed the interest and passion I have for continually studying scripture and Catholicism. "Accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior" is not Catholic terminology, so he picked up something somewhere else, perhaps thinking that since Catholics accept Jesus as Lord, and Jesus as savior, it must be Catholic shorthand.

Yes, there are records of non-Catholics being possessed and exorcised, but it usually the Catholics who get the attention when this subject comes up. Peck (psychiatrist) wrote a book on how he, a non-Catholic, came to believe in exorcisms and he had data on true accounts. While Catholics don't advertise possession and exorcism, when Hollywood wants to make a movie, or researches wish to collect data, it is the Catholic Church that has that data.

As far as your friend becoming angry: School and Church can only teach us so much, take us so far. Life is so busy and most people simply don't have time to make learning scripture, their religion from top to bottom a priority. If you push your friend into a corner and he can't see a way out, he's going to be angry for two reasons: First, you pushed him; second, he knows there is an answer and he should be able to see his way out, but it is beyond his reach. Sometimes atheists might push their friends into giving them an answer RIGHT NOW. If they can't, they take on the attitude they have proven their point. If the situation ever arise again, why not suggest to your friend, "Hey, don't worry about it right now. Why don't you do some reading or asking around and get back to me when you get the chance."

There aren't a lot of people I know who are passionate about athiesm. My friends who believe in God and don't like me questioning it start oh boying me if it even vaguely comes up.

And usually athiests don't talk about it why? Because there's nothing to talk about.

And like I say, when religion is more like you and less like Isis and pat Robertson then I'll go back underground. And what's with the Mormons huh? You do realize Joseph Smith and I had the same apephamy only I didn't start my own religion. But he says he prayed and God told him your religion lost its authority during the dark ages of corrupt popes. Every religion has a good hook.

I truly believe " they" use religion to control us. It's one of the ways at least.

 

[Meriweather]

Before I forget, yes your church has become more and more liberal as of late. Soon we will have women priests and married priests and gay weddings and birth control will soon be OK just like athiests are apparently cool now.

No, we have not become more and more liberal. Women priests, gay weddings, and artificial birth control will not soon be okay because you can't get roses from oak tree roots. If people truly understood the Church's stand on life being one of God's greatest gifts, they would understand why the rulings on artificial birth control and gay weddings will stand. Possibly women deacons...no priests. We already have married priests, but it is the exception, not the rule.

You do know the history of the Catholic church right? It wasn't always so liberal like you. Do you know about Bruno Giordano? The church stoned him to death for dare saying the universe was bigger than they thought. Blasphemy they said and stoned him. You Christians aren't nearly as bad as you used to be as for Muslims they have a ways to go. At least Muslims in other countries. Here in America they seem alright

I do know a bit about Bruno Giordano. Pop culture likes to depict him as dying because of his stance on an infinite universe. The actual charges charges included blasphemy, immoral conduct, engaging with magic, and heresy. He had enemies all over, including Protestants and within the monarchy of England. Seems like a very colorful character. Teaching an infinite universe wasn't the real problem. One of the many problems was that he was teaching inanimate objects, such as rocks, have souls, and these and human souls are interconnected. God is not just God, but God is the rock, the tree, the universe sort of thing. That was the blasphemy. The other was more incidental. Still, it took a very long time for the Church to reach a decision on him. When he received the sentence Giordano said something to the effect that perhaps the Church had a greater fear of passing judgment on him than he had of receiving it. Cool words to me, even if I do disagree with his stand that rocks have souls!

I only wish the Church had stoned him, or even strangled him. I'm fairly certain he was burned alive. So, I do realize the Church has changed over time. That we could ever burn someone alive makes me shudder.

 

[Meriweather]

That happens to me in politics and religion. I need to think for a day or minute because you gotta come up with a good 30 second elevator pitch or you will lose them.

This crazy woman was talking about abortion and what the Bible says in a restaurant while I was having breakfast one day. I thought if I were to have a conversation with her where would I start? Lol

I can totally relate to the "Where do I start?"

 

[Meriweather]

There aren't a lot of people I know who are passionate about athiesm. My friends who believe in God and don't like me questioning it start oh boying me if it even vaguely comes up.

And usually athiests don't talk about it why? Because there's nothing to talk about.

And like I say, when religion is more like you and less like Isis and pat Robertson then I'll go back underground. And what's with the Mormons huh? You do realize Joseph Smith and I had the same apephamy only I didn't start my own religion. But he says he prayed and God told him your religion lost its authority during the dark ages of corrupt popes. Every religion has a good hook.

I truly believe " they" use religion to control us. It's one of the ways at least.

Joseph Smith was a con artist. He wanted people to follow him--and they did. However, his con was that they were really following Jesus. And that is the strength of the Mormon Church today. They are following Jesus. Yes, they have a few odd things left over from the influence of Joseph Smith, but the final laugh is on Joseph Smith. His people are not following him. They are following Jesus.

When I was fourteen, and before I knew anything about the LDS Church, I came across this Book of Mormon. It seemed to be about God, and I like to read about God, so I started in. About a third of the way in, I put it aside, thinking a bit disgustedly, "This just sounds like a book made up by a fourteen year old boy."

Much later, I learned that the Book of Mormon had, essentially, been written by a fourteen year old boy! (This is not the way members of the LDS Church would phrase it.)

I don't think religion is used as to control. Rather it is a sure way to make sure the wild cards in the deck get a lot of free rein.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I will go back and read the rest of your post but I want to start with your husband being an atheist. So you can sit there and look at the man you love everyday knowing his soul will burn in eternity for all hell? Because that is what your religion believes and if you don't believe that then maybe you're not really a Christian?

Once you read my post (and I do apologize for its length), you will understand that Christianity does NOT teach the atheist soul will burn in hell for eternity. Some Christian sects teach that is what happens, but that is not the majority of Christians, though perhaps the majority of Christians you know.

The Catholic Church teaches that those who do not follow the Catholic Faith (be they non-Catholic or atheist) are entrusted to the loving kindness and mercy of God. Catholics, Orthodox, and a few other of the larger denominations, have an entirely different approach to the Cross, to Christ, to God, and to hell than the aspects you seem to assign to all of Christianity.

I'm not sure I buy that. My x-wife was told by her Catholic priest, back in the 1960's, that her first child, who was born dead, could not be buried in hallowed ground, since it had not been baptised; and further, the child would spend eternity in purgatory, separated from my x-wife.

She never stepped foot in a Catholic church again.

She should have left the church long before that. As soon as they told her non christians go to hell or don't go to heaven she should have quit if she didn't believe it.

It took that rule hurting someone she loved for her to care. Probably because she lacks empathy. Its like the person who is anti abortion who takes their 16 year old daughter to get an abortion. She didn't have empathy. It had to happen to her for her to understand. Same with my republican friends who lost their jobs. They always said, "i would never collect unemployment", before they lost their first job.

So it didn't bother her that billions of humans were burning in hell or in purgatory until it was her son?

And if she claimed to be a Catholic back then, how did she not know this? See how ignorant most Christians are? They rely on their pervert priest to tell them what the bible says.

I have a secret for you. The bible says everything and nothing. It says whatever you want it to say.

I can't answer these questions about my x-wife's beliefs, because the child that was born dead, which caused all the bad feelings, happened decades before I met her, when she was married to he first husband, who had been deceased for 3 years before I met her. I will say this. She lived in New Orleans, and the NO Catholic Church has a stranglehold on the city, religion wise. People there are literally afraid of their priests. Just questioning his authority is enough to put you on their informal watch list. Communities there are tight, and centered around your parish church.

 

[sealybobo]

I will go back and read the rest of your post but I want to start with your husband being an atheist. So you can sit there and look at the man you love everyday knowing his soul will burn in eternity for all hell? Because that is what your religion believes and if you don't believe that then maybe you're not really a Christian?

Once you read my post (and I do apologize for its length), you will understand that Christianity does NOT teach the atheist soul will burn in hell for eternity. Some Christian sects teach that is what happens, but that is not the majority of Christians, though perhaps the majority of Christians you know.

The Catholic Church teaches that those who do not follow the Catholic Faith (be they non-Catholic or atheist) are entrusted to the loving kindness and mercy of God. Catholics, Orthodox, and a few other of the larger denominations, have an entirely different approach to the Cross, to Christ, to God, and to hell than the aspects you seem to assign to all of Christianity.

I'm not sure I buy that. My x-wife was told by her Catholic priest, back in the 1960's, that her first child, who was born dead, could not be buried in hallowed ground, since it had not been baptised; and further, the child would spend eternity in purgatory, separated from my x-wife.

She never stepped foot in a Catholic church again.

She should have left the church long before that. As soon as they told her non christians go to hell or don't go to heaven she should have quit if she didn't believe it.

It took that rule hurting someone she loved for her to care. Probably because she lacks empathy. Its like the person who is anti abortion who takes their 16 year old daughter to get an abortion. She didn't have empathy. It had to happen to her for her to understand. Same with my republican friends who lost their jobs. They always said, "i would never collect unemployment", before they lost their first job.

So it didn't bother her that billions of humans were burning in hell or in purgatory until it was her son?

And if she claimed to be a Catholic back then, how did she not know this? See how ignorant most Christians are? They rely on their pervert priest to tell them what the bible says.

I have a secret for you. The bible says everything and nothing. It says whatever you want it to say.

I can't answer these questions about my x-wife's beliefs, because the child that was born dead, which caused all the bad feelings, happened decades before I met her, when she was married to he first husband, who had been deceased for 3 years before I met her. I will say this. She lived in New Orleans, and the NO Catholic Church has a stranglehold on the city, religion wise. People there are literally afraid of their priests. Just questioning his authority is enough to put you on their informal watch list. Communities there are tight, and centered around your parish church.

I remember watching this southern preacher just humiliate this guy who fell asleep during his sermon. How anyone believes that guys word about God I don't know, other than they've been brainwashed since birth.

The guy said sorry and the preacher said "you bet you're sorry" lol