Average EV Car Prices Remain on Par with New Luxury Cars

[Blues Man]

And when you can’t buy a replacement battery for your EV in 8 years because of planned obsolescence, the gas luxury cars will still be driving around.

View attachment 640545 Why electric cars are getting pricier even as batteries get cheaper

Except for the half dozen or so that are all under 35K

 

[Weatherman2020]

Except for the half dozen or so that are all under 35K

And tin cans with wheels. And in 8 years the manufacturer will have obsoleted the battery forcing you to buy a new car when your battery needs replacement.

 

[Crick]

What is the likely future of an ICE powered car with 200,000 miles on it? I think it's the junk yard. What's the difference? You think you can't strip an EV for parts? You think someone couldn't jury rig another battery in there?

 

[Blues Man]

And tin cans with wheels. And in 8 years the manufacturer will have obsoleted the battery forcing you to buy a new car when your battery needs replacement.

LINK

 

[petro]

What is the likely future of an ICE powered car with 200,000 miles on it? I think it's the junk yard. What's the difference? You think you can't strip an EV for parts? You think someone couldn't jury rig another battery in there?

Just turned 200,000 on my Jeep and most likely will get another 100 thousand easily. Still looks showroom new.
My last went over 340 thousand.

An EV won't tow my camper or boat long distances into areas where gas stations are sparse and charging stations simply don't exist.
An EV won't work for my construction job with long unpredictable commutes and a need to carry tools or tow a trailer.
If an EV works for others, great.
Nothing against multiple forms of vehicle technologies, just don't mandate preferences or behavior based on the false premise of any benefit to the environment.

All vehicles have a cost to the environment in their production and use.

 

[Weatherman2020]

LINK

What? That GM just obsoleted the battery of one of their cars? Makes perfect sense. $$$$. Expect all manufacturers to follow.

GM Ends Support For Spark EV Batteries - CleanTechnica

Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! Zach Hurst over at ... [continued]

cleantechnica.com

 

[Blues Man]

What? That GM just obsoleted the battery of one of their cars? Makes perfect sense. $$$$. Expect all manufacturers to follow.

GM Ends Support For Spark EV Batteries - CleanTechnica

Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! Zach Hurst over at ... [continued]

cleantechnica.com

And how long will those batteries last after support has ended?

 

[Crick]

And how long will those batteries last after support has ended?

You should have gone to page 2 of that linked page. It reads:

[Update from GM: “Recent reports speculating that GM will no longer provide battery pack replacements for the Spark EV are incorrect. While we are currently experiencing a temporary disruption in the supply of new Spark EV packs, GM remains committed to providing replacement packs to Spark EV owners who need them in the future and will work with owners until we get the supply issues resolved.”]

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

You need to pay for the infrastructure to get into the position of claiming it's cheaper. So you need to spend 52% more upfront at the start to buy the EV (if you do it on a loan attracting interest, then it's dearer still). Then you need to buy the solar panel system. So if it runs your house as well, you need to proportion a slice of this to the car. Then you have had to be in a position to charge from home, a third of motorists can't.

So you drive a gasoline powered car because you care about the poor?

So when you lump the true cost of owning an EV and the true cost of an ICE vehicle, then when adding in recharging/fueling, you need to drive over 200,000 miles before you hit breakeven. Before I hit 200,000 miles, I would need a new car.

200,000 miles to make up for $1000 to buy and install the charger? Wow. that doesn't seem right.

If EV's are so good, you wouldn't need an incentive to buy one and ban by law the competition.

I got almost no incentive to buy mine.

But by your reasoning HOUSES should be the same, right? And there should be no tax incentives for buying a house. Do you get any deductions for your mortgage interest? YOu should DEFINITELY work to stop THAT.

So if ICE vehicles were allowed to compete with EV's, EV's in their current technological state would fizzle out.

Gasoline already has an unfair advantage. Not only is it the predominant technology right now (it supplanted electric cars very early) and petroleum is a highly subsidized industry that YOU pay for with your taxes as well.

So, congrats on staying so clear of all that unfair market advantage.

 

[Weatherman2020]

And how long will those batteries last after support has ended?

Depends. Articles state 4 years total life for some.

 

[Weatherman2020]

What is the likely future of an ICE powered car with 200,000 miles on it? I think it's the junk yard. What's the difference? You think you can't strip an EV for parts? You think someone couldn't jury rig another battery in there?

I always drive my Toyotas to the moon and get a new one at some point on the way back. +250k. And I don’t require a replacement, I simply want a new car. If I kept the car I can find spare parts to keep it going forever.

 

[Care4all]

I know nothing on how these things work, but the hubby and I had to rent a big minivan to drive home from visiting family in Florida, because they gave us so much stuff....we needed a van....

The only minivan was a Toyota Siena Hybrid, there on the lot, so we got it.

It was a dream minivan....had every luxury you could imagine, and the ride was smooth....

We spent only around $120 bucks on gasoline from Florida all the way back home to Maine, and the van was loaded to the hilt!

Matt and I really really wanted to buy one, by the time we got home!!!!

But then, we found out the price!!! And that dream died a quick death!

 

[Captain Caveman]

Why has the fossil fuel industry needed the hundreds of billions of dollars in subsidies its received over the years?

Which ICE vehicles subsidies were those?

If you take oil, how much is used by vehicles by burning petroleum? About 16%. Not too sure in the US, but us in the UK contribute more in Vehicle Excise Duty (Road Tax) and duty on fuel.

An EV reduces the carbon footprint of an ICE vehicle by 17% to 30%. So the narrative of the EV supporters is that we can save the planet by cutting 17% to 30% of 16% of oil. And to do this, we need incentives to buy an EV and law against the competition.

If EV's were as convenient, if not more convenient than an ICE vehicle, and the same price, if not cheaper than said ICE vehicle, then we would be stupid not to buy one. Because they're not, and in fact it's the opposite, what I find disastrous is that evolution has made some humans believe EV's are fantastic.

 

[Captain Caveman]

So you drive a gasoline powered car because you care about the poor?





200,000 miles to make up for $1000 to buy and install the charger? Wow. that doesn't seem right.




I got almost no incentive to buy mine.

But by your reasoning HOUSES should be the same, right? And there should be no tax incentives for buying a house. Do you get any deductions for your mortgage interest? YOu should DEFINITELY work to stop THAT.




Gasoline already has an unfair advantage. Not only is it the predominant technology right now (it supplanted electric cars very early) and petroleum is a highly subsidized industry that YOU pay for with your taxes as well.

So, congrats on staying so clear of all that unfair market advantage.

No. If someone makes a claim that EV's are cheaper to refuel than an ICE vehicle, I'm saying they have to have the brains to realise that to do so, you have to outlay many tens of thousands to get that privilege. Anyone who doesn't understand that is thick as fuck.

If a third of motorists cannot charge at home, where are they installing a charger?

The incentive in the UK was a government reduction in the initial cost of a new EV, up to £6,000, and no Vehicle Excise Duty irrelevant of battery size.

Houses? Haven't a clue where that's come from. If EV's are so good, you wouldn't need an incentive to buy one and ban by law the competition. The renewable electric industry is EXTREMELY subsidised by disgusting non alarmists.

Nothing has an unfair advantage when brought to market. The way it works is that what you bring to market, if it appeals to the public, then they buy it. If the EV was brought to market, as convenient, if not more, and the same price, if not cheaper, then they would sell. But the EV's are less convenient and they need legislation to get them burdened onto the people.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

No. If someone makes a claim that EV's are cheaper to refuel than an ICE vehicle, I'm saying they have to have the brains to realise that to do so, you have to outlay many tens of thousands to get that privilege. Anyone who doesn't understand that is thick as fuck.

If you run the ROI on my investment I cannot see how I'm "behind". As I said over the last two houses where I had Solar out of 14 years I only paid electricity bills maybe 7 times total.

On top of that my solar panels produce an EXCESS of electricity which I use to power my car as well.

There's literally NOTHING you can do that would look like that for your gasoline car. Unless you drilled a well in your backyard and built a petroleum refinery there and powered your house and your car with it.

Yeah, I had some up-front costs. But the benefits are great. I long ago paid off all the loans, bought the car outright, so I am struggling to see how I'm in a worse situation.

If a third of motorists cannot charge at home, where are they installing a charger?

If a third of gasoline powered car owners have their monthly budget hammered by wild increases in gas prices do you equally think gasoline powered cars are a problem?

The incentive in the UK was a government reduction in the initial cost of a new EV, up to £6,000, and no Vehicle Excise Duty irrelevant of battery size.

I'm the US. We don't like to give people too much of a deal. Incentives were modest for my car. I didn't get any cost reduction on the front end and only a small tax incentive a year later (that's now gone).

Houses? Haven't a clue where that's come from. If EV's are so good, you wouldn't need an incentive to buy one and ban by law the competition.

You made the claim that EV's are artificially subsidized rather than a free market good. I'm pointing out that in the USA we give people "subsidies" for buying a house through tax incentives each year for the mortgage.

One is no different from the other.

If the EV was brought to market, as convenient, if not more, and the same price, if not cheaper, then they would sell. But the EV's are less convenient and they need legislation to get them burdened onto the people.

Do you ever think about how gasoline powered cars got a foothold in the marketplace? Remember: the fuel for those things are MASSIVELY subsidized. That allows the petroleum companies to initially expand out the infrastructure at less cost to them. Now that it's integral to our economy there's always going to be a "market barrier" to alternative technologies.

Maybe it's a lifetime working in R&D that I see how technology starts and how it grows. Some people seem to think these technologies they enjoy TODAY just came to earth wholly formed and as cheap as they are now. A form of "Last Thursdayism" if you will.

 

[Blues Man]

Depends. Articles state 4 years total life for some.

you can thank Crick for reading the entire article you linked to this is what it says on page 2

[Update from GM: “Recent reports speculating that GM will no longer provide battery pack replacements for the Spark EV are incorrect. While we are currently experiencing a temporary disruption in the supply of new Spark EV packs, GM remains committed to providing replacement packs to Spark EV owners who need them in the future and will work with owners until we get the supply issues resolved.”]

 

[Captain Caveman]

If you run the ROI on my investment I cannot see how I'm "behind". As I said over the last two houses where I had Solar out of 14 years I only paid electricity bills maybe 7 times total.

On top of that my solar panels produce an EXCESS of electricity which I use to power my car as well.

There's literally NOTHING you can do that would look like that for your gasoline car. Unless you drilled a well in your backyard and built a petroleum refinery there and powered your house and your car with it.

Yeah, I had some up-front costs. But the benefits are great. I long ago paid off all the loans, bought the car outright, so I am struggling to see how I'm in a worse situation.



If a third of gasoline powered car owners have their monthly budget hammered by wild increases in gas prices do you equally think gasoline powered cars are a problem?




I'm the US. We don't like to give people too much of a deal. Incentives were modest for my car. I didn't get any cost reduction on the front end and only a small tax incentive a year later (that's now gone).



You made the claim that EV's are artificially subsidized rather than a free market good. I'm pointing out that in the USA we give people "subsidies" for buying a house through tax incentives each year for the mortgage.

One is no different from the other.



Do you ever think about how gasoline powered cars got a foothold in the marketplace? Remember: the fuel for those things are MASSIVELY subsidized. That allows the petroleum companies to initially expand out the infrastructure at less cost to them. Now that it's integral to our economy there's always going to be a "market barrier" to alternative technologies.

Maybe it's a lifetime working in R&D that I see how technology starts and how it grows. Some people seem to think these technologies they enjoy TODAY just came to earth wholly formed and as cheap as they are now. A form of "Last Thursdayism" if you will.

Electric cars have been around since 1832. They're only appealing to a small percentage of the population. Our UK government had to foot the first £6,000 of a new EV to incentise people to start buying them, and to ban the sale of new ICE vehicles from 2030 because they know fine well they're crap and the public won't take them up. "You will move over to cassette".

So you have to look at the whole picture, rather than looking 'down' on others. I've done well for myself, I'll be looking to buy a new van in the coming years but it will be diesel. The simple fact is, I don't have the extra £38,000 to waste on a battery version that has a range of 120 miles and it can't tow. I commute 90 miles a day, minimum, and that leaves 30 miles for one trip to the suppliers and back. Many a time working in remote locations, I would have to partially recharge from a portable diesel generator.

On top of that, at one house I own I could charge on the drive, at my other house, I have to park on the opposite side of the road. Southern Scotland doesn't give solar panels any pay back period.

My friends in Northern England were advised not to buy solar panels as it wouldn't be worth it, they charge their EV at home and spend over £330 per month ($406) on electric.

And all we get from wealthy enough EV owners who charge from home, have solar panels, has a relevent job where tootling about to the office and back is all that's required, is the usual rhetoric, "EV's are cheap to recharge", whilst reality is flying past them.

 

[ding]

"subsidies" for buying a house through tax incentives each year for the mortgage.

You really need to learn what a subsidy means.

Subsidy: a sum of money granted by the government or a public body to assist an industry or business so that the price of a commodity or service may remain low or competitive.

 

[there4eyeM]

Until now, electric vehicles have not been developed as an alternative to what has become the norm for transportation. They are an excessive alternative to current excessive vehicles.
30kw, five passenger, light sedans would be closer to viable electric alternatives.
It would never be necessary for thermal engines to entirely disappear. The problem is the massive overuse of massively overweight, over powered monsters.

 

[ding]

Until now, electric vehicles have not been developed as an alternative to what has become the norm for transportation. They are an excessive alternative to current excessive vehicles.
30kw, five passenger, light sedans would be closer to viable electric alternatives.
It would never be necessary for thermal engines to entirely disappear. The problem is the massive overuse of massively overweight, over powered monsters.

You might as well be arguing that men shouldn’t be sexually attracted to other men.