Ben Franklin Said It Best

[Weatherman2020]

In January 1775 Benjamin Franklin (1796-1790) was part of an American delegation sent to Britain in an attempt to resolve the outstanding disagreements between the Crown and the colonies. Seventeen points were up for discussion of which several were rejected outright by the Crown while others were rejected by the colonies. Franklin’s comments regarding the last two points produced one of his most famous sayings from the period:

As to the other two acts, (i.e. 16. The American admiralty courts reduced to the same powers they have in England, and the acts establishing them to be reënacted in America; and 17. All powers of internal legislation in the colonies to be disclaimed by Parliament) the Massachusetts (sic) must suffer all the hazards and mischiefs of war rather than admit the alteration of their charters and laws by Parliament. ‘They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.’

Benjamin Franklin on the trade off between essential liberty and temporary safety (1775) | Online Library of Liberty

As to the other two acts, (i.e. 16. The American admiralty courts reduced to the same powers they have in England, and the acts establishing them to be reënacted in America; and 17. All powers of internal legislation in the colonies to be disclaimed by Parliament) the Massachusetts (sic) must...

oll.libertyfund.org

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I dearly wish some of you would read each others' posts so we wouldn't have to go through this over and over.

That quote by Franklin was actually IN SUPPORT of the authority of the Pennsylvania Assembly to tax a particular large landholder who the Governor was continuing to "let off the hook." The Assembly was trying to raise money to fight the French and Indian War. It's kind of confusing, but Franklin's quote had nothing to do with individual liberties. He was talking about TAXES.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Old Ben would be rolling over in his grave seeing you misuse his famous quote.

WITTES: The exact quotation, which is from a letter that Franklin is believed to have written on behalf of the Pennsylvania General Assembly, reads, those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

SIEGEL: And what was the context of this remark?

WITTES: He was writing about a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns, the proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony who ruled it from afar. And the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands to pay for frontier defense during the French and Indian War. And the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so he actually meant purchase a little temporary safety very literally. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging that it did not have the authority to tax it.

Ben Franklin's Famous 'Liberty, Safety' Quote Lost Its Context In 21st Century

He once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." That quote often comes up in the context of new technology.

www.npr.org

 

[Weatherman2020]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I'm not so sure eating out or drinking at a bar are "essential" liberties.

In fact I don't feel too put out at all.

But then again I work for myself and mostly from home anyway. I do miss my regular jam sessions but we're making do with Zoom for now.

Ask the ten million out of work who are going to be homeless soon.

 

[Blues Man]

Large groups of people aren't that essential

That's your opinion- those large groups people (and the Individuals in them) are the ones who have the right to determine essential.

Those who think a temporary modification of their behavior is somehow a threat to their rights aren't understanding the old saying

With rights come responsibilities

or

Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose

 

[Weatherman2020]

Large groups of people aren't that essential

That's your opinion- those large groups people (and the Individuals in them) are the ones who have the right to determine essential.

Those who think a temporary modification of their behavior is somehow a threat to their rights aren't understanding the old saying

With rights come responsibilities

or

Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose

I bet you cheered as the ten white cops dragged the black man off a bus for not wearing a mask.

 

[Gdjjr]

Define essential liberty and a little temporary safety.

They are self defining- or so I thought- an alleged educated person would know that

Essential is of extreme importance- Liberty is to do what the doer deems essential to him and his.
temporary is short term
Safety is a condition of being protected from

 

[Blues Man]

Large groups of people aren't that essential

That's your opinion- those large groups people (and the Individuals in them) are the ones who have the right to determine essential.

Those who think a temporary modification of their behavior is somehow a threat to their rights aren't understanding the old saying

With rights come responsibilities

or

Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose

I bet you cheered as the ten white cops dragged the black man off a bus for not wearing a mask.

No I didn't at all.

I don't agree with everything the government does and I never will.

But I am also a rational person and do not let the irrational acts of others influence my own thoughts and actions

 

[Pogo]

He also said

Advice to a Friend on Choosing a Mistress - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Face first grows lank and wrinkled; then the Neck; then the Breast and Arms; the lower Parts continuing to the last as plump as ever: So that covering all above with a Basket, and regarding only what is below the Girdle, it is impossible of two Women to know an old from a young one. And as in the dark all Cats are grey, the Pleasure of corporal Enjoyment with an old Woman is at least equal, and frequently superior, every Knack being by Practice capable of Improvement.[1]

Wiki? Let me go change that entry.

Won't be able to change this, and more on your pseudotopic:

>> “In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the smallpox taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of the parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it; my example showing that the regret may be the same either way, and that, therefore, the safer should be chosen.”1 << -- source​

​

Smallpox ravaged the American colonies especially in the northeast, for a century and a half beginning in the 1630s,

Further reading: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Vaccines

Great point! They never shutdown liberty for smallpox and as a result America became the greatest nation in human history.

On the contrary, (1) they quarantined sailors coming in who were (correctly) thought to be the source of the recurring infections, but (2) they didn't quarantine comprehensively enough to prevent recurring local epidemics that caused hundreds to evacuate altogether, (3) they needed an African slave to teach them how to deal with it with an idea that had been known around the world for centuries; and (4) "America" is two continents, not a "nation".

 

[Gdjjr]

Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose

Actually, according to LEO's, the threat is enough to justify shooting someone-

 

[Blues Man]

Define essential liberty and a little temporary safety.

They are self defining- or so I thought- an alleged educated person would know that

Essential is of extreme importance- Liberty is to do what the doer deems essential to him and his.
temporary is short term
Safety is a condition of being protected from

So the temporary modification of behavior is short term too so why get your panties in a twist?

 

[Rye Catcher]

Change what ever you want, but the letter is still among his writings and easy for anyone to find.

His call for censorship is ironic, given whatever point he was trying to make.

 

[Blues Man]

Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose

Actually, according to LEO's, the threat is enough to justify shooting someone-

Only if you can prove that a reasonable person would be in fear of his life if a person was brandishing his fists

 

[Gdjjr]

So the temporary modification of behavior is short term too so why get your panties in a twist?

I don't recall giving anyone the authority or permission to infringe (butt into) my life's pursuit of happiness according to MY essentials

 

[jwoodie]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I'm not so sure eating out or drinking at a bar are "essential" liberties.

In fact I don't feel too put out at all.

But then again I work for myself and mostly from home anyway. I do miss my regular jam sessions but we're making do with Zoom for now.

The issue is whether the government should be able to place you under house arrest without due process of law.

 

[Gdjjr]

Only if you can prove that a reasonable person would be in fear of his life if a person was brandishing his fists

LEO's say "I feared for my life"- so, are LEO's not held to the same "reasonable" standard?

 

[Blues Man]

So the temporary modification of behavior is short term too so why get your panties in a twist?

I don't recall giving anyone the authority or permission to infringe (butt into) my life's pursuit of happiness according to MY essentials

So you think it essential to endanger the health of other people?

What's the big deal about modifying your behavior for a short time?

 

[Blues Man]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I'm not so sure eating out or drinking at a bar are "essential" liberties.

In fact I don't feel too put out at all.

But then again I work for myself and mostly from home anyway. I do miss my regular jam sessions but we're making do with Zoom for now.

The issue is whether the government should be able to place you under house arrest without due process of law.

No one is under house arrest.

I still go out and walk my dogs. I still go for a drive, I still go to the store for booze and groceries I still work in my yard

It's really not that difficult to be just a little more aware of your surroundings so as to keep a distance from others

 

[Blues Man]

Only if you can prove that a reasonable person would be in fear of his life if a person was brandishing his fists

LEO's say "I feared for my life"- so, are LEO's not held to the same "reasonable" standard?

Life is full of double standards

anyone who graduated kindergarten knows that

 

[Rigby5]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

He didn't go thru this Wuhan Virus.

Actually Ben Franklin went through lots of epidemics that were worse,'
{...
At the time that the pamphlet was written, the only protection against smallpox was variolation, the practice of purposely infecting a person with the smallpox virus under controlled conditions in order to confer immunity via a milder form of the disease. Jenner’s breakthrough use of the cowpox virus did not come along until 1796 and would not be widely used for a few years after that. While it had been used for many centuries in places like China and Asia Minor, variolation did not arrive into Europe until the early 1700s and to the Americas in 1721 with Rev. Cotton Mather and Dr. Zabdiel Boylston.

Franklin had a personal stake in controlling smallpox. His son, Francis Folger Franklin, died of smallpox at the age of four in 1736. Franklin noticed that variolation caused fewer deaths than naturally contracted smallpox did. To encourage the use of variolation in the American colonies, Franklin wrote the introduction to a pamphlet written by English physician William Heberden in 1759. The pamphlet encouraged the use of a controlled infection with smallpox in order to “save thousands” from smallpox
...}

Blog

History of Vaccines is an educational resource by the College of Physicians of Philadelphia, one of the oldest professional medical organizations in the US.

www.historyofvaccines.org

 

[Rigby5]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Large groups of people aren't that essential for a few weeks if the alternative is unchecked spread of the virus. Getting past the curve is more than just a little temporary safety.

Not sure, because it is possible that those who do not get it this time, will lack immunity when it comes around again, and by next time, it could be even more lethal?

 

[Pogo]

Keywords and phrases are "essential Liberty" and "a little temporary Safety". Both are subjective and open to interpretation.

Not really. Words have definitions, without which interpretation wouldn't exist. Interpretaion is what lawyers pay other to teach them to do, to create ambiguity, for job justification.

Words have definitions, but in the same way, sentences have context. When a single sentence is plucked out of its context milieu, it's obviously floating alone.

>> WITTES: He was writing about a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns, the proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony who ruled it from afar. And the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands to pay for frontier defense during the French and Indian War. And the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so he actually meant purchase a little temporary safety very literally. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging that it did not have the authority to tax it.​

​

SIEGEL: So far from being a pro-privacy quotation, if anything, it's a pro-taxation and pro-defense spending quotation.​

​

WITTES: It is a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security. It means, in context, not quite the opposite of what it's almost always quoted as saying but much closer to the opposite than to the thing that people think it means. << -- Franklin's "Liberty Safety" quote lost its context in the 21st century​

OldLady already pointed this out.

Of course, plucking a line out of its context is a malpractice for which the OP is already infamous.