Ben Franklin Said It Best

[cutter]

So here we are, the day before Easter, and all churches are closed by order of the state. According to the government less people have died from covid19 than the normal flu and those that do die are over 65 with underlying conditions or are younger with serious underlying conditions.
Why do we keep those younger people with no underlying conditions, most of the people in this country, locked down at home.
The state should never, and doesn't have the power to order churches to close but here we are all accepting the states order.
Now that the state has tested the ability to totally control our lives , by order of the state, they will use it on every occasion possible.
Eventually we will have to take back our Rights or just burn the Constitution and accept living in a totalitarian country. I fear too many young people are willing to accept this.

 

[Rigby5]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Old Ben would be rolling over in his grave seeing you misuse his famous quote.

WITTES: The exact quotation, which is from a letter that Franklin is believed to have written on behalf of the Pennsylvania General Assembly, reads, those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

SIEGEL: And what was the context of this remark?

WITTES: He was writing about a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns, the proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony who ruled it from afar. And the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands to pay for frontier defense during the French and Indian War. And the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so he actually meant purchase a little temporary safety very literally. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging that it did not have the authority to tax it.

Ben Franklin's Famous 'Liberty, Safety' Quote Lost Its Context In 21st Century

He once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." That quote often comes up in the context of new technology.

www.npr.org

Does not change anything.
The fact the Penn family was choosing greed over due process is what was he was saying was wrong.
It does not matter if government is the bad guy or good guy. Government can be greedy and corrupt or fair and essential.
The quote is not about whether or not government is good, because that depends.
It is about being short sighted is bad.
So still applies.
Panicking over COVID-19 would be wrong.
We need to still use logic to decide what is right and legal, in the long run.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Keywords and phrases are "essential Liberty" and "a little temporary Safety". Both are subjective and open to interpretation.

Not really. Words have definitions, without which interpretation wouldn't exist. Interpretaion is what lawyers pay other to teach them to do, to create ambiguity, for job justification.

Words have definitions, but in the same way, sentences have context. When a single sentence is plucked out of its context milieu, it's obviously floating alone.

>> WITTES: He was writing about a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns, the proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony who ruled it from afar. And the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands to pay for frontier defense during the French and Indian War. And the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so he actually meant purchase a little temporary safety very literally. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging that it did not have the authority to tax it.​

​

SIEGEL: So far from being a pro-privacy quotation, if anything, it's a pro-taxation and pro-defense spending quotation.​

​

WITTES: It is a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security. It means, in context, not quite the opposite of what it's almost always quoted as saying but much closer to the opposite than to the thing that people think it means. << -- Franklin's "Liberty Safety" quote lost its context in the 21st century​

OldLady already pointed this out.

Of course, plucking a line out of its context is a malpractice for which the OP is already infamous.

Entire letter:


Our Assemblies have of late had so many Supply Bills, and of such different Kinds, rejected on various Pretenses; some for not complying with obsolete occasional Instructions (tho’ other Acts exactly of the same Tenor had been past since those Instructions, and received the Royal Assent some for being inconsistent with the supposed Spirit of an Act of Parliament, when the Act itself did not any Way affect us, being made expressly for other Colonies; some for being, as the Governor was pleased to say, “of an extraordinary Nature,” without informing us, wherein that extraordinary Nature consisted; and others for disagreeing with new discovered Meanings, and forced Constructions of a Clause in the Proprietary Commission; that we are now really at a Loss to divine what Bill can possibly pass. The Proprietary Instructions are Secrets to us; and we may spend much Time, and much of the public Money, in preparing and framing Bills for Supply, which, after all, must, from those Instructions, prove abortive. If we are thus to be driven from Bill to Bill, without one solid Reason afforded us; and can raise no Money for the King’s Service, and Relief or Security of our Country, till we fortunately hit on the only Bill the Governor is allowed to pass, or till we consent to make such as the Governor or Proprietaries direct us to make, we see little Use of Assemblies in this Particular; and think we might as well leave it to the Governor or Proprietaries to make for us what Supply Laws they please, and save ourselves and the Country the Expense and Trouble. All Debates and all Reasonings are vain, where Proprietary Instructions, just or unjust, right or wrong, must inviolably be observed. We have only to find out, if we can, what they are, and then submit and obey. But surely the Proprietaries Conduct, whether as Fathers of their Country, or Subjects to their King, must appear extraordinary, when it is considered that they have not only formally refused to bear any Part of our yearly heavy Expenses in cultivating and maintaining Friendship with the Indians, tho’ they reap such immense Advantages by that Friendship; but they now, by their Lieutenant, refuse to contribute any Part towards resisting an Invasion of the King’s Colony, committed to their Care; or to submit their Claim of Exemption to the Decision of their Sovereign.



In fine, we have the most sensible Concern for the poor distressed Inhabitants of the Frontiers. We have taken every Step in our Power, consistent with the just Rights of the Freemen of Pensylvania, for their Relief, and we have Reason to believe, that in the Midst of their Distresses they themselves do not wish us to go farther. Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, Deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.—Such as were inclined to defend themselves, but unable to purchase Arms and Ammunition, have, as we are informed, been supplied with both, as far as Arms could be procured, out of Monies given by the last Assembly for the King’s Use; and the large Supply of Money offered by this Bill, might enable the Governor to do every Thing else that should be judged necessary for their further Security, if he shall think fit to accept it. Whether he could, as he supposes, “if his Hands had been properly strengthened, have put the Province into such a Posture of Defence, as might have prevented the present Mischiefs,” seems to us uncertain; since late Experience in our neighbouring Colony of Virginia (which had every Advantage for that Purpose that could be desired) shows clearly, that it is next to impossible to guard effectually an extended Frontier, settled by scattered single Families at two or three Miles Distance, so as to secure them from the insiduous Attacks of small Parties skulking Murderers:—But thus much is certain, that by refusing our Bills from Time to Time, by which great Sums were seasonably offered, he has rejected all the Strength that Money could afford him; and if his Hands are still weak or unable, he ought only to blame himself, or those who have tied them.

If the Governor proceeds on his Journey, and takes a Quorum of his Council with him, we hope, since he retains our Bill, that it will be seriously and duly considered by them; and that the same Regard for the public Welfare which induced unanimously to advise his intended Journey, will induce them as unanimously to advise his Assent. We agree therefore to his keeping the Bill, earnastly requesting he would re-consider it attentively; and shall be ready at any Time to meet him for the Purpose of enacting it into a Law.

 

[jwoodie]

No one is under house arrest.

I still go out and walk my dogs. I still go for a drive, I still go to the store for booze and groceries I still work in my yard

So it is OK for the government to decide what you can and cannot do?

 

[Rigby5]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I'm not so sure eating out or drinking at a bar are "essential" liberties.

In fact I don't feel too put out at all.

But then again I work for myself and mostly from home anyway. I do miss my regular jam sessions but we're making do with Zoom for now.

To the bar or restaurant owners, it is almost a death sentence if they do not get bailed out.
You can not survive without a means of earning a living.

 

[Rigby5]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I'm not so sure eating out or drinking at a bar are "essential" liberties.

In fact I don't feel too put out at all.

But then again I work for myself and mostly from home anyway. I do miss my regular jam sessions but we're making do with Zoom for now.

The issue is whether the government should be able to place you under house arrest without due process of law.

No one is under house arrest.

I still go out and walk my dogs. I still go for a drive, I still go to the store for booze and groceries I still work in my yard

It's really not that difficult to be just a little more aware of your surroundings so as to keep a distance from others

Tell that to the police.
They are starting to ticket people just out for a drive, and I think that is illegal.
Worse yet, they seem to only be targeting Blacks.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Know what he'd say today ?

Ha !couldnt keep it could yas !

Probably throw in a YOURE all fuckin doomed to

 

[Pogo]

So here we are, the day before Easter, and all churches are closed by order of the state. According to the government less people have died from covid19 than the normal flu and those that do die are over 65 with underlying conditions or are younger with serious underlying conditions.

Wow, another sale on Strawmen at K-Mart.

And btw FEWER people, not "less people".

 

[jwoodie]

Tell that to the police.
They are starting to ticket people just out for a drive, and I think that is illegal.
Worse yet, they seem to only be targeting Blacks.

I thought Blacks were supposed to be targeted for wearing masks. Now they're targeted for not wearing masks? Try to get your stories straight.

 

[Weatherman2020]

So here we are, the day before Easter, and all churches are closed by order of the state. According to the government less people have died from covid19 than the normal flu and those that do die are over 65 with underlying conditions or are younger with serious underlying conditions.

Wow, another sale on Strawmen at K-Mart.

And btw FEWER people, not "less people".

 

[Blues Man]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Large groups of people aren't that essential for a few weeks if the alternative is unchecked spread of the virus. Getting past the curve is more than just a little temporary safety.

Not sure, because it is possible that those who do not get it this time, will lack immunity when it comes around again, and by next time, it could be even more lethal?

There will most likely be a vaccine for it by then

 

[Blues Man]

Tell that to the police.
They are starting to ticket people just out for a drive, and I think that is illegal.
Worse yet, they seem to only be targeting Blacks.

I thought Blacks were supposed to be targeted for wearing masks. Now they're targeted for not wearing masks? Try to get your stories straight.

Actually they are targeted for both

Black Americans raising concerns about being profiled for wearing masks amid coronavirus

 

[Weatherman2020]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I'm not so sure eating out or drinking at a bar are "essential" liberties.

In fact I don't feel too put out at all.

But then again I work for myself and mostly from home anyway. I do miss my regular jam sessions but we're making do with Zoom for now.

The issue is whether the government should be able to place you under house arrest without due process of law.

No one is under house arrest.

I still go out and walk my dogs. I still go for a drive, I still go to the store for booze and groceries I still work in my yard

It's really not that difficult to be just a little more aware of your surroundings so as to keep a distance from others

Michigan you get arrested for checking on your neighbor or driving to your cabin in the woods.

Michigan stay-at-home order now bans visits to friends, relatives, governor says | Fox News

Traveling to another home within Michigan, even to visit friends or relatives, or to go to a vacation home, is now banned under Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s coronavirus stay-at-home order, which has been extended until May 1.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Weatherman2020]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Old Ben would be rolling over in his grave seeing you misuse his famous quote.

WITTES: The exact quotation, which is from a letter that Franklin is believed to have written on behalf of the Pennsylvania General Assembly, reads, those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

SIEGEL: And what was the context of this remark?

WITTES: He was writing about a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns, the proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony who ruled it from afar. And the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands to pay for frontier defense during the French and Indian War. And the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so he actually meant purchase a little temporary safety very literally. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging that it did not have the authority to tax it.

Ben Franklin's Famous 'Liberty, Safety' Quote Lost Its Context In 21st Century

He once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." That quote often comes up in the context of new technology.

www.npr.org

Does not change anything.
The fact the Penn family was choosing greed over due process is what was he was saying was wrong.
It does not matter if government is the bad guy or good guy. Government can be greedy and corrupt or fair and essential.
The quote is not about whether or not government is good, because that depends.
It is about being short sighted is bad.
So still applies.
Panicking over COVID-19 would be wrong.
We need to still use logic to decide what is right and legal, in the long run.

Did you read the entire letter that I posted?
You’re full of gestapo shit.

 

[Blues Man]

No one is under house arrest.

I still go out and walk my dogs. I still go for a drive, I still go to the store for booze and groceries I still work in my yard

So it is OK for the government to decide what you can and cannot do?

That's pretty much what the government does all the time isn't it? I mean I can't drive drunk, or shoot my guns anywhere I want or rob other people etc etc

And once again this is nothing but a temporary modification of behavior.

 

[Blues Man]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I'm not so sure eating out or drinking at a bar are "essential" liberties.

In fact I don't feel too put out at all.

But then again I work for myself and mostly from home anyway. I do miss my regular jam sessions but we're making do with Zoom for now.

The issue is whether the government should be able to place you under house arrest without due process of law.

No one is under house arrest.

I still go out and walk my dogs. I still go for a drive, I still go to the store for booze and groceries I still work in my yard

It's really not that difficult to be just a little more aware of your surroundings so as to keep a distance from others

Tell that to the police.
They are starting to ticket people just out for a drive, and I think that is illegal.
Worse yet, they seem to only be targeting Blacks.

Maybe where you live

That's between you and your state government

 

[Blues Man]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I'm not so sure eating out or drinking at a bar are "essential" liberties.

In fact I don't feel too put out at all.

But then again I work for myself and mostly from home anyway. I do miss my regular jam sessions but we're making do with Zoom for now.

The issue is whether the government should be able to place you under house arrest without due process of law.

No one is under house arrest.

I still go out and walk my dogs. I still go for a drive, I still go to the store for booze and groceries I still work in my yard

It's really not that difficult to be just a little more aware of your surroundings so as to keep a distance from others

Michigan you get arrested for checking on your neighbor or driving to your cabin in the woods.

Michigan stay-at-home order now bans visits to friends, relatives, governor says | Fox News

Traveling to another home within Michigan, even to visit friends or relatives, or to go to a vacation home, is now banned under Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s coronavirus stay-at-home order, which has been extended until May 1.

www.foxnews.com

Do you live in Michigan?

 

[jwoodie]

I thought Blacks were supposed to be targeted for wearing masks. Now they're targeted for not wearing masks? Try to get your stories straight.

Actually they are targeted for both

 

[Weatherman2020]

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I'm not so sure eating out or drinking at a bar are "essential" liberties.

In fact I don't feel too put out at all.

But then again I work for myself and mostly from home anyway. I do miss my regular jam sessions but we're making do with Zoom for now.

The issue is whether the government should be able to place you under house arrest without due process of law.

No one is under house arrest.

I still go out and walk my dogs. I still go for a drive, I still go to the store for booze and groceries I still work in my yard

It's really not that difficult to be just a little more aware of your surroundings so as to keep a distance from others

Michigan you get arrested for checking on your neighbor or driving to your cabin in the woods.

Michigan stay-at-home order now bans visits to friends, relatives, governor says | Fox News

Traveling to another home within Michigan, even to visit friends or relatives, or to go to a vacation home, is now banned under Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s coronavirus stay-at-home order, which has been extended until May 1.

www.foxnews.com

Do you live in Michigan?

Shitty strawman. I bet you applauded the black Philly man being dragged off the bus by 10 white cops.

 

[JLW]

Ben Franklin’s statement was more apropos to passage of the Patriot Act that people like the OP supported.

A voluntary and temporary lockdown for the sake of saving lives is not taking anyone’s ”liberty” away. If any anything it is in the pursuit of ”life” that the government is taking this action. But of course I am pro-life and not pro-death.