Bergdahl A Deserter Not A Hero

[Synthaholic]

OOPS!

https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/473933903833468929

OOPS! (redux)


https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/473919526883438592

 

[Edgetho]

As much as SF has changed over the years it still remains the same in some respects. I was in from 1988-94.

There was a time when they wanted to turn us into mech units , but dropped that after they discovered we not only were good at our primary mission (Unconventional Warfare), but could be used for long-range recon, and because we come from various units we usually have somebody on the team with just about every specialty you can name.

'Mech Units'? Wow, I never heard of that.

But the Regular Army has never cared much for SF at all. It was one of the reasons they gave EVERY Soldier the Beret.

A hundred SF operators did in 30 days what the entire Russian Army couldn't do in ten years....... Destroy the Taliban in Asscrackistan.

I have no clue what happened after I left in early 1971. In fact, I was kinda disappointed in the whole shebang.

I got sent to 10th Group at Devens. They had just returned from Baad Toelz and as far as I was concerned, were nothing more than pretty-boy garrison troops. They were more concerned about whether your boots were shined than whether you could fight.

Not that many combat vets there.

I guess Mrs A thought she was doing me a favor. After 2 years in the bush, maybe she thought I needed a rest and put me with some rear echelon mo-fos.

I didn't like it. At all.

I ETSd out.

I was also getting over falciparum malaria and had some combat stress going on.

I refuse to file for it. Fuck 'em. I'm not stressed, I'm pissed. There's a difference.

My buddy was at Ben Het. I was out in the bush when Ben Het was about to get hit and they came into Plei Me by chopper and grabbed him and would have grabbed me too if they knew where I was (not sure I even knew where I was at the time)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-eYoL6IZXg]Tank Battle Vietnam - Ben Het 1969 - YouTube[/ame]

He got out okay. I don't know the entire story but he said it was pretty hairy.

BTW, Plei Me is the location where the 1st Cav almost got its ass handed to them. It was the location portrayed in the film 'We Were Soldiers'

I wasn't there for the battle (I was there later), but it was a HOT-HOT area. Heavy infiltration route that was hit with a lot agent Orange (just called 'orange' in those days)

Know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?

A Fairy Tale starts out, "Once Upon A Time" and a War Story starts out, "This Is No Shit"

'Nuff

You have to love all these "warriors". I was in Qua Li and was good friends with several guys from L Company 75th Inf - 101st Airborne (otherwise known as the Airborne Rangers LLRP). I loved those guys. They would disappear for 3-4 weeks at a time doing God knows what and always - ALWAYS - several of them didn't come back.

They never talked about their jobs. NEVER. After I transitioned from 11B to 97B, I was at the JFK Center at Fort Bragg (nearly 5 years later) and happened to run into a one of the guys. He was a SPC4 when I was in Viet Nam and at Bragg he had made it to SFC. We talked in the Mess Hall for about an hour and I asked him - "How the hell did you make SFC so fast?" His answer? Everyone else was dead.

THAT, my friend, was the Viet Nam that I knew.

You mean, they never talked to YOU about what they did.

But they'll talk to their fellow Rangers. And SF. Especially when you consider that we trained them.

I don't talk to someone about what I did unless I think they understand it.

Few do

 

[Edgetho]

Few will understand this. Very few. And fewer still will laugh at it. Because.....

It is all too true

Rangers Versus Special Forces: Hostage Rescue




The Chief of Staff of the Army asked his Sergeant Major, who was both Ranger and Special Forces qualified, which organization he would recommend to form a new anti-terrorist unit. The Sergeant Major responded to the General's question with this parable: If there were a hijacked Boeing 747 being held by terrorists along with its passengers and crew and an anti-terrorist unit formed either by the Rangers or the Special Forces was given a Rescue/Recovery Mission; what would you expect to happen?

Ranger Option

Forces/Equipment Committed: If the Rangers went in, they would send a Ranger company of 120 men with standard army issue equipment.

Mission Preparation: The Ranger Company First Sergeant would conduct a Hair Cut and Boots Inspection, while the officers consulted SOPs and held sand table exercises.

Infiltration Technique: They would insist on double timing, in company formation, wearing their combat equipment, and singing cadence all the way to the site of the hijacked aircraft.

Actions in the Objective Area: Once they arrived, the Ranger company would establish their ORP, put out security elements, conduct a leaders recon, reapply their camouflage, and conduct final preparations for Actions on the OBJ.

Results of Operation: The Rescue/Recovery Operation would be completed within one hour; all of the terrorists and most of the passengers would have been killed, the Rangers would have sustained light casualties and the 747 would be worthless to anyone except a scrap dealer.

Special Forces Option

Forces/Equipment Committed: If Special Forces went in, they would send only a 12 man team (all SF units are divisible by 12 for some arcane historical reason) however, due to the exotic nature of their equipment the SF Team would cost the same amount to deploy as the Ranger Company.

Mission Preparation: The SF Team Sergeant would request relaxed grooming standards for the team. All members of the team would spend a grueling afternoon at a quality spa ensuring physical abilities would be honed.

Infiltration Technique: The team would insist on separate travel orders with Max Per Diem, and each would get to the site of the hijacking by his own means. At least one third of the team would insist on jumping in HALO.

Actions in the Objective Area: Once they arrived , the SF Team would cache their military uniforms, establish a Team Room at the best hotel in the area, use their illegal Team Fund to stock the unauthorized Team Room Bar, check out the situation by talking to the locals, and have a Team Meeting to discuss the merits of the terrorists' cause.

Results of Operation: The Rescue/Recovery Operation would take two weeks to complete and by that time all of the terrorists would have been killed, (and would have left signed confessions); the passengers would be ruined psychologically for the remainder of their lives; and all of the women passengers would be pregnant. The 747 would be essentially unharmed, the team would have taken no casualties but would have used up, lost, or stolen all the "high speed" equipment issued to them.

 

[mudwhistle]

'Mech Units'? Wow, I never heard of that.

But the Regular Army has never cared much for SF at all. It was one of the reasons they gave EVERY Soldier the Beret.

A hundred SF operators did in 30 days what the entire Russian Army couldn't do in ten years....... Destroy the Taliban in Asscrackistan.

I have no clue what happened after I left in early 1971. In fact, I was kinda disappointed in the whole shebang.

I got sent to 10th Group at Devens. They had just returned from Baad Toelz and as far as I was concerned, were nothing more than pretty-boy garrison troops. They were more concerned about whether your boots were shined than whether you could fight.

Not that many combat vets there.

I guess Mrs A thought she was doing me a favor. After 2 years in the bush, maybe she thought I needed a rest and put me with some rear echelon mo-fos.

I didn't like it. At all.

I ETSd out.

I was also getting over falciparum malaria and had some combat stress going on.

I refuse to file for it. Fuck 'em. I'm not stressed, I'm pissed. There's a difference.

My buddy was at Ben Het. I was out in the bush when Ben Het was about to get hit and they came into Plei Me by chopper and grabbed him and would have grabbed me too if they knew where I was (not sure I even knew where I was at the time)

Tank Battle Vietnam - Ben Het 1969 - YouTube

He got out okay. I don't know the entire story but he said it was pretty hairy.

BTW, Plei Me is the location where the 1st Cav almost got its ass handed to them. It was the location portrayed in the film 'We Were Soldiers'

I wasn't there for the battle (I was there later), but it was a HOT-HOT area. Heavy infiltration route that was hit with a lot agent Orange (just called 'orange' in those days)

Know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?

A Fairy Tale starts out, "Once Upon A Time" and a War Story starts out, "This Is No Shit"

'Nuff

I decided to go SF after talking to a Cpt on a team in Bad Tolz. Flint Caserne. I was in the Sig 34 course, COMSEC Custodian course there.

BTW , remember that bowling alley under the swimming pool? Scored a 213 there.

No. I was never in Bad Toelz. Or however you spell it.

The 10th Group moved from there to Fort Devens. I think they left a few people, maybe a C Team behind

I DEROSed to 10th at Devens.

Didn't care for it a whole lot. I got out.

It was pretty clear at that time that the Army just didn't want Viet Nam Veterans around anymore.

At least, not the enlisted variety.

We were going to go through a RIF (reduction in force) and it was every man for himself. So they opted for the rosie-cheeked new boys that didn't know shit from apple butter.

Can't say that I blame them a whole lot.

Combat Veterans..... I mean the kind that have seen serious combat, are a pain in the ass.

We really are. Or were. It takes some time to grow out of that stage. If you even make it.

They moved 10th to Ft Carson Co. eventually.

5th Group was in Ft Campbell while I was there. Used to be at Bragg, but they changed it to 3rd Group and shipped the banner to Kentucky.

3rd Group at Bragg was worthless. 7th was the only decent SF group there for awhile. I don't know what is up with 3rd now. Went to ANOC at Bragg and bunked with some of the guys that were with 1st in Okinawan. I wouldn't want that tour. Ft Lewis is supposed to be alright, but I guess I lucked out going to 5th. Rat bastards changed our flash, which really pissed me off. Fuckers are jealous of SF, so they took away the Vietnam era flash and gave us a plain black flash with a white border. Vietnam 5th Group had the coolest flash.

 

[mudwhistle]

Few will understand this. Very few. And fewer still will laugh at it. Because.....

It is all too true

Rangers Versus Special Forces: Hostage Rescue




The Chief of Staff of the Army asked his Sergeant Major, who was both Ranger and Special Forces qualified, which organization he would recommend to form a new anti-terrorist unit. The Sergeant Major responded to the General's question with this parable: If there were a hijacked Boeing 747 being held by terrorists along with its passengers and crew and an anti-terrorist unit formed either by the Rangers or the Special Forces was given a Rescue/Recovery Mission; what would you expect to happen?

Ranger Option

Forces/Equipment Committed: If the Rangers went in, they would send a Ranger company of 120 men with standard army issue equipment.

Mission Preparation: The Ranger Company First Sergeant would conduct a Hair Cut and Boots Inspection, while the officers consulted SOPs and held sand table exercises.

Infiltration Technique: They would insist on double timing, in company formation, wearing their combat equipment, and singing cadence all the way to the site of the hijacked aircraft.

Actions in the Objective Area: Once they arrived, the Ranger company would establish their ORP, put out security elements, conduct a leaders recon, reapply their camouflage, and conduct final preparations for Actions on the OBJ.

Results of Operation: The Rescue/Recovery Operation would be completed within one hour; all of the terrorists and most of the passengers would have been killed, the Rangers would have sustained light casualties and the 747 would be worthless to anyone except a scrap dealer.

Special Forces Option

Forces/Equipment Committed: If Special Forces went in, they would send only a 12 man team (all SF units are divisible by 12 for some arcane historical reason) however, due to the exotic nature of their equipment the SF Team would cost the same amount to deploy as the Ranger Company.

Mission Preparation: The SF Team Sergeant would request relaxed grooming standards for the team. All members of the team would spend a grueling afternoon at a quality spa ensuring physical abilities would be honed.

Infiltration Technique: The team would insist on separate travel orders with Max Per Diem, and each would get to the site of the hijacking by his own means. At least one third of the team would insist on jumping in HALO.

Actions in the Objective Area: Once they arrived , the SF Team would cache their military uniforms, establish a Team Room at the best hotel in the area, use their illegal Team Fund to stock the unauthorized Team Room Bar, check out the situation by talking to the locals, and have a Team Meeting to discuss the merits of the terrorists' cause.

Results of Operation: The Rescue/Recovery Operation would take two weeks to complete and by that time all of the terrorists would have been killed, (and would have left signed confessions); the passengers would be ruined psychologically for the remainder of their lives; and all of the women passengers would be pregnant. The 747 would be essentially unharmed, the team would have taken no casualties but would have used up, lost, or stolen all the "high speed" equipment issued to them.

War is Hell.

There I was, standing knee-deep in hand-grenade pins........

 

[The T]

Few will understand this. Very few. And fewer still will laugh at it. Because.....

It is all too true

Rangers Versus Special Forces: Hostage Rescue




The Chief of Staff of the Army asked his Sergeant Major, who was both Ranger and Special Forces qualified, which organization he would recommend to form a new anti-terrorist unit. The Sergeant Major responded to the General's question with this parable: If there were a hijacked Boeing 747 being held by terrorists along with its passengers and crew and an anti-terrorist unit formed either by the Rangers or the Special Forces was given a Rescue/Recovery Mission; what would you expect to happen?

Ranger Option

Forces/Equipment Committed: If the Rangers went in, they would send a Ranger company of 120 men with standard army issue equipment.

Mission Preparation: The Ranger Company First Sergeant would conduct a Hair Cut and Boots Inspection, while the officers consulted SOPs and held sand table exercises.

Infiltration Technique: They would insist on double timing, in company formation, wearing their combat equipment, and singing cadence all the way to the site of the hijacked aircraft.

Actions in the Objective Area: Once they arrived, the Ranger company would establish their ORP, put out security elements, conduct a leaders recon, reapply their camouflage, and conduct final preparations for Actions on the OBJ.

Results of Operation: The Rescue/Recovery Operation would be completed within one hour; all of the terrorists and most of the passengers would have been killed, the Rangers would have sustained light casualties and the 747 would be worthless to anyone except a scrap dealer.

Special Forces Option

Forces/Equipment Committed: If Special Forces went in, they would send only a 12 man team (all SF units are divisible by 12 for some arcane historical reason) however, due to the exotic nature of their equipment the SF Team would cost the same amount to deploy as the Ranger Company.

Mission Preparation: The SF Team Sergeant would request relaxed grooming standards for the team. All members of the team would spend a grueling afternoon at a quality spa ensuring physical abilities would be honed.

Infiltration Technique: The team would insist on separate travel orders with Max Per Diem, and each would get to the site of the hijacking by his own means. At least one third of the team would insist on jumping in HALO.

Actions in the Objective Area: Once they arrived , the SF Team would cache their military uniforms, establish a Team Room at the best hotel in the area, use their illegal Team Fund to stock the unauthorized Team Room Bar, check out the situation by talking to the locals, and have a Team Meeting to discuss the merits of the terrorists' cause.

Results of Operation: The Rescue/Recovery Operation would take two weeks to complete and by that time all of the terrorists would have been killed, (and would have left signed confessions); the passengers would be ruined psychologically for the remainder of their lives; and all of the women passengers would be pregnant. The 747 would be essentially unharmed, the team would have taken no casualties but would have used up, lost, or stolen all the "high speed" equipment issued to them.

Hello Edge...I get it. My last duty Station was in Charleston, S.C. I worked in the 437th MAW Special OPS (JSOC), and had a supporting role with the SEALS and DELTA FORCE...C-141's, as a Communications NCO. Our Motto? "I Love The Night Life".

 

[RandallFlagg]

'Mech Units'? Wow, I never heard of that.

But the Regular Army has never cared much for SF at all. It was one of the reasons they gave EVERY Soldier the Beret.

A hundred SF operators did in 30 days what the entire Russian Army couldn't do in ten years....... Destroy the Taliban in Asscrackistan.

I have no clue what happened after I left in early 1971. In fact, I was kinda disappointed in the whole shebang.

I got sent to 10th Group at Devens. They had just returned from Baad Toelz and as far as I was concerned, were nothing more than pretty-boy garrison troops. They were more concerned about whether your boots were shined than whether you could fight.

Not that many combat vets there.

I guess Mrs A thought she was doing me a favor. After 2 years in the bush, maybe she thought I needed a rest and put me with some rear echelon mo-fos.

I didn't like it. At all.

I ETSd out.

I was also getting over falciparum malaria and had some combat stress going on.

I refuse to file for it. Fuck 'em. I'm not stressed, I'm pissed. There's a difference.

My buddy was at Ben Het. I was out in the bush when Ben Het was about to get hit and they came into Plei Me by chopper and grabbed him and would have grabbed me too if they knew where I was (not sure I even knew where I was at the time)

Tank Battle Vietnam - Ben Het 1969 - YouTube

He got out okay. I don't know the entire story but he said it was pretty hairy.

BTW, Plei Me is the location where the 1st Cav almost got its ass handed to them. It was the location portrayed in the film 'We Were Soldiers'

I wasn't there for the battle (I was there later), but it was a HOT-HOT area. Heavy infiltration route that was hit with a lot agent Orange (just called 'orange' in those days)

Know the difference between a War Story and a Fairy Tale?

A Fairy Tale starts out, "Once Upon A Time" and a War Story starts out, "This Is No Shit"

'Nuff

You have to love all these "warriors". I was in Qua Li and was good friends with several guys from L Company 75th Inf - 101st Airborne (otherwise known as the Airborne Rangers LLRP). I loved those guys. They would disappear for 3-4 weeks at a time doing God knows what and always - ALWAYS - several of them didn't come back.

They never talked about their jobs. NEVER. After I transitioned from 11B to 97B, I was at the JFK Center at Fort Bragg (nearly 5 years later) and happened to run into a one of the guys. He was a SPC4 when I was in Viet Nam and at Bragg he had made it to SFC. We talked in the Mess Hall for about an hour and I asked him - "How the hell did you make SFC so fast?" His answer? Everyone else was dead.

THAT, my friend, was the Viet Nam that I knew.

You mean, they never talked to YOU about what they did.

But they'll talk to their fellow Rangers. And SF. Especially when you consider that we trained them.

I don't talk to someone about what I did unless I think they understand it.

Few do

Trust me. I understand what"they" do. I was a mere 11Bush beater for a year.After that I was a CI agent with a TSSC3 Clearance. I know EXACTLY what they- Rangers, Beret, Delta, AFI, all of them do. I have worked with SOAR on a number of missions on the "wrong side" of the Iron curtain.

I still have friends at the 75th and the 3rd SF Bde. One of my best friends was in the 75th and is now a Professor at a College in Florida.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I decided to go SF after talking to a Cpt on a team in Bad Tolz. Flint Caserne. I was in the Sig 34 course, COMSEC Custodian course there.

BTW , remember that bowling alley under the swimming pool? Scored a 213 there.

No. I was never in Bad Toelz. Or however you spell it.

The 10th Group moved from there to Fort Devens. I think they left a few people, maybe a C Team behind

I DEROSed to 10th at Devens.

Didn't care for it a whole lot. I got out.

It was pretty clear at that time that the Army just didn't want Viet Nam Veterans around anymore.

At least, not the enlisted variety.

We were going to go through a RIF (reduction in force) and it was every man for himself. So they opted for the rosie-cheeked new boys that didn't know shit from apple butter.

Can't say that I blame them a whole lot.

Combat Veterans..... I mean the kind that have seen serious combat, are a pain in the ass.

We really are. Or were. It takes some time to grow out of that stage. If you even make it.

They moved 10th to Ft Carson Co. eventually.

5th Group was in Ft Campbell while I was there. Used to be at Bragg, but they changed it to 3rd Group and shipped the banner to Kentucky.

3rd Group at Bragg was worthless. 7th was the only decent SF group there for awhile. I don't know what is up with 3rd now. Went to ANOC at Bragg and bunked with some of the guys that were with 1st in Okinawan. I wouldn't want that tour. Ft Lewis is supposed to be alright, but I guess I lucked out going to 5th. Rat bastards changed our flash, which really pissed me off. Fuckers are jealous of SF, so they took away the Vietnam era flash and gave us a plain black flash with a white border. Vietnam 5th Group had the coolest flash.

when I was in, the 3rd was indeed, in Bad Tolez. At least they were still there while I was at Heidleberg. But I was reassigned to Berlin after a year and then off to Moscow. So I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that the came stateside. I would imagine that was about the same time that the 2nd AD was moved from Fort Hood to the Black Forest region.

 

[JoeB131]

[

The Army is evil because you heard some false rumors.

Stop thinking of everything as being a corporation or organization and think of it as people who sometimes do stupid stuff every once in awhile.

Yes. Yes, they do.

So Bergdahl did something stupid. Let's cut him a break.

At least he wasn't being malicious. He just snapped because mentally, he wasn't fit to be in to start with. But some recruiter said, "Wow, you were Home-Skuled and you tried to Join the French FOreign Legion? Hey, sign up right here!!"

What I have found that corporations and organization frequently enable stupidity and make it policy. I saw it when I was in the military, and I've seen it to some degree or another in every corporation I've worked for since.

 

[JoeB131]

As I recall we called on the Taliban to give Bin Laden after the 9-11 attacks which would have keep the U.S. from invading they refused that does not strike me as rational.

I
No, instead we invaded before we were ready, outsourced most of the fighting to people who were just as bad, and finally abandoned the fight to go avenge Bush's Pappy in Iraq.

We could have tried negotiating with the Taliban for a few more weeks, maybe.

Naaa, what we did turned out so well.

And yet to you claim Libya was a smashing success and Syria doesn't exist.

Your selective outrage is quite evident....

As far as I'm concerned, Syria doesn't exist. It's not our problem.

For Libya, I said that was a bad idea in 2011.

 

[JoeB131]

[
The problem is with regards to the Taliban your applying rational thought to pretty much irrational people as far as using the drones goes that happens only if we stay focused on the region and problem of terrorism something both the government and public are unlikely to do after all troops are out.

Well, no, I don't think that the Taliban are 'irrational". I think they found themselves in the middle of a mess in 2001 and couldn't find a graceful way out. The US acquiesed to them having Al Qaeda in their country for five years, until 9/11.

The Taliban only want to rule their little patch in the mountains, and frankly, I'm fine with that. it's not our problem.

Every day that goes by in here, you show yourself to be the complete and total scumbag you are.

But...... You're a dimocrap.

What else is new?

ATROCITY

“Among the accounts of mutilations, ...."

Okay, dude, I'm going to cut off your torture porn here and ask you a question?

Why is any of this my problem?

Why should I agree to letting anyone I care about die to keep it from happening?

Here was the thing. The Taliban had been in power for 5 years, and the people before them weren't any better.

We made it possible for them to gain power by arming them to fight the Soviets, who were no doubt trying to put an end to the same cultural barbarism you are wanking over right now.

But htey were a bunch of dirty stinking Commies, so they had it coming.

The thing is, everyone know five minutes after we pull out, Karzai is going to pull some kind of deal with the Taliban and it's going to be Burkas for everyone.

So again, I ask. Why is this my problem?

 

[JoeB131]

Reality check- again- the War with Afghanistan is over, and any post-war peace deal is going to count on the cooperation of the Taliban. Part of that means we are going to have to stop holding Taliban leaders in violation of the Geneva Convention.

i think you need a reality check Joe.....there are roughly 38,000 guys still over there and still can be killed.....the war aint over until they are all back home....just sayin....

All over but the shouting.

This is kind of like that time in Vietnam where they knew it was over, just waiting to get the peace deal done in Paris so they could get out alive.

Incidently, I think the Army is severely broken, thanks to these wars. Maybe we need to focus on that.

 

[JoeB131]

[

gee you mean he's an inept loser negotiating with terrorists to get back a deserter while an actual hero languishes in a Mexican prison?

YOu mean the guy who entered Mexico illegally with three weapons?

Joe you are getting on people for calling this guy a deserter because the facts are not known yet.....but yet here you are stating this guy in Mexico is guilty when the facts are not know here either....a piece on the news here said he may have made a wrong turn......his story of why he was down there to begin with checks out...

i'm sure it does. And I'd have no problem with trying to get him released, by you aren't goign to do that by bullying Mexico, which already has a collective chip on its shoulder over being bullied by the US for 150 years.

Something that ought to be clear to the Faux News Loudmouths who aren't helping the situation one little bit.

 

[mudwhistle]

Reality check- again- the War with Afghanistan is over, and any post-war peace deal is going to count on the cooperation of the Taliban. Part of that means we are going to have to stop holding Taliban leaders in violation of the Geneva Convention.

i think you need a reality check Joe.....there are roughly 38,000 guys still over there and still can be killed.....the war aint over until they are all back home....just sayin....

All over but the shouting.

This is kind of like that time in Vietnam where they knew it was over, just waiting to get the peace deal done in Paris so they could get out alive.

Incidently, I think the Army is severely broken, thanks to these wars. Maybe we need to focus on that.

The Army was in better shape a few years ago than it's been in decades, but now Obama has pretty much fucked it up. After the purge all of the leadership is out on the street.

You keep believing your normal bs if it makes you feel better.

 

[1776]

 

[JoeB131]

[q

The Army was in better shape a few years ago than it's been in decades, but now Obama has pretty much fucked it up. After the purge all of the leadership is out on the street.

You keep believing your normal bs if it makes you feel better.

An Army that was in "good shape" wouldn't have taken misfits like Bergdahl, Nidal Hasan and Bradley/Chelsea Manning. All of whom signed up in the Bush years when the recruiters were taking everything that walked in the door because the same National Guard units were getting tired from their fifth deployment.

 

[mudwhistle]

[q

The Army was in better shape a few years ago than it's been in decades, but now Obama has pretty much fucked it up. After the purge all of the leadership is out on the street.

You keep believing your normal bs if it makes you feel better.

An Army that was in "good shape" wouldn't have taken misfits like Bergdahl, Nidal Hasan and Bradley/Chelsea Manning. All of whom signed up in the Bush years when the recruiters were taking everything that walked in the door because the same National Guard units were getting tired from their fifth deployment.

Stress can do strange things to people.

Guess you wouldn't know about that, would you.

 

[The T]

i think you need a reality check Joe.....there are roughly 38,000 guys still over there and still can be killed.....the war aint over until they are all back home....just sayin....

All over but the shouting.

This is kind of like that time in Vietnam where they knew it was over, just waiting to get the peace deal done in Paris so they could get out alive.

Incidently, I think the Army is severely broken, thanks to these wars. Maybe we need to focus on that.

The Army was in better shape a few years ago than it's been in decades, but now Obama has pretty much fucked it up. After the purge all of the leadership is out on the street.

You keep believing your normal bs if it makes you feel better.

Joey feels safe defending idiocy...

 

[mudwhistle]

All over but the shouting.

This is kind of like that time in Vietnam where they knew it was over, just waiting to get the peace deal done in Paris so they could get out alive.

Incidently, I think the Army is severely broken, thanks to these wars. Maybe we need to focus on that.

The Army was in better shape a few years ago than it's been in decades, but now Obama has pretty much fucked it up. After the purge all of the leadership is out on the street.

You keep believing your normal bs if it makes you feel better.

Joey feels safe defending idiocy...

And his virginity....

 

[The T]

The Army was in better shape a few years ago than it's been in decades, but now Obama has pretty much fucked it up. After the purge all of the leadership is out on the street.

You keep believing your normal bs if it makes you feel better.

Joey feels safe defending idiocy...

And his virginity....