Biden on forgiving student loan debt

[AzogtheDefiler]

Most of these people hoping for loan forgiveness must regret spending so much for school.

Did GM regret being an auto manufacturer when they got their loans forgiven?

GM got their loans forgiven? Link that please.

OMG, educate yourself. This has been covered so many times....................it really gets old.

There were bailouts. Not the same as forgiveness. Be specific. What are you referring to here? GM repaid their TARP loan. Where is the forgiveness? You made the statement, you provide the proof.

Educate yourself. I suspect you already know though.

They repaid their TARP loan. Show me otherwise.

You are already aware of the loss. Why do you do this?

General Motors Bailout Cost Taxpayers $11.2 Billion.

GM could have paid more. The Gov't didn't structure the repayment correctly.

In the five years since GM's bankruptcy it made $22.6 billion. But taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

In five years since bankruptcy GM made $22.6 billion while taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

money.cnn.com

Maybe you should educate yourself. GM is still around and paying taxes and employing workers. The Gov't gave them a sweetheart deal. Not GM's fault.

Students will get a sweetheart deal.

Lotta money at a minority of people. It’s a vote loser for sure. Those who have paid already will be mad. Future people who don’t get forgiveness will be mad. Cost of college will only go up. You wanna lose control on unfair policy?

Biden has long run on this. He won. (he really did).

I want it all to fall apart so I don't care about control.

Well we’ve made it clear it is unfair policy. I’m not on board.

You don't have to be. The country is full of nothing but unfair policies.

Yes, it’s disturbing you support them.

When are you giving back what you have benefitted?

What have I benefitted from that everyone else hasn’t?

Many haven't benefitted from the trillions pumped into the markets.

Many? You mean most have and everyone has the opportunity. So I guess I haven’t gotten special treatment.

You have the opportunity to go back to school.

I already have a degree. No special treatment for me it seems.

You are getting plenty already.

Define “plenty”

More than others.

Others? You mean lazy leftists like you?

 

[pknopp]

Most of these people hoping for loan forgiveness must regret spending so much for school.

Did GM regret being an auto manufacturer when they got their loans forgiven?

GM got their loans forgiven? Link that please.

OMG, educate yourself. This has been covered so many times....................it really gets old.

There were bailouts. Not the same as forgiveness. Be specific. What are you referring to here? GM repaid their TARP loan. Where is the forgiveness? You made the statement, you provide the proof.

Educate yourself. I suspect you already know though.

They repaid their TARP loan. Show me otherwise.

You are already aware of the loss. Why do you do this?

General Motors Bailout Cost Taxpayers $11.2 Billion.

GM could have paid more. The Gov't didn't structure the repayment correctly.

In the five years since GM's bankruptcy it made $22.6 billion. But taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

In five years since bankruptcy GM made $22.6 billion while taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

money.cnn.com

Maybe you should educate yourself. GM is still around and paying taxes and employing workers. The Gov't gave them a sweetheart deal. Not GM's fault.

Students will get a sweetheart deal.

Lotta money at a minority of people. It’s a vote loser for sure. Those who have paid already will be mad. Future people who don’t get forgiveness will be mad. Cost of college will only go up. You wanna lose control on unfair policy?

Biden has long run on this. He won. (he really did).

I want it all to fall apart so I don't care about control.

Well we’ve made it clear it is unfair policy. I’m not on board.

You don't have to be. The country is full of nothing but unfair policies.

Yes, it’s disturbing you support them.

When are you giving back what you have benefitted?

What have I benefitted from that everyone else hasn’t?

Many haven't benefitted from the trillions pumped into the markets.

Many? You mean most have and everyone has the opportunity. So I guess I haven’t gotten special treatment.

You have the opportunity to go back to school.

I already have a degree. No special treatment for me it seems.

You are getting plenty already.

You are back to that? Take a shot at it again then. Your claim is benefitted by pretty much everyone, that isn’t special treatment...

Just over half and as I have noted, many would prefer to be out of the markets and into a fair and safe interest bearing account.

What Percentage of Americans Owns Stock?

 

[pknopp]

Most of these people hoping for loan forgiveness must regret spending so much for school.

Did GM regret being an auto manufacturer when they got their loans forgiven?

GM got their loans forgiven? Link that please.

OMG, educate yourself. This has been covered so many times....................it really gets old.

There were bailouts. Not the same as forgiveness. Be specific. What are you referring to here? GM repaid their TARP loan. Where is the forgiveness? You made the statement, you provide the proof.

Educate yourself. I suspect you already know though.

They repaid their TARP loan. Show me otherwise.

You are already aware of the loss. Why do you do this?

General Motors Bailout Cost Taxpayers $11.2 Billion.

GM could have paid more. The Gov't didn't structure the repayment correctly.

In the five years since GM's bankruptcy it made $22.6 billion. But taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

In five years since bankruptcy GM made $22.6 billion while taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

money.cnn.com

Maybe you should educate yourself. GM is still around and paying taxes and employing workers. The Gov't gave them a sweetheart deal. Not GM's fault.

Students will get a sweetheart deal.

Lotta money at a minority of people. It’s a vote loser for sure. Those who have paid already will be mad. Future people who don’t get forgiveness will be mad. Cost of college will only go up. You wanna lose control on unfair policy?

Biden has long run on this. He won. (he really did).

I want it all to fall apart so I don't care about control.

Well we’ve made it clear it is unfair policy. I’m not on board.

You don't have to be. The country is full of nothing but unfair policies.

Yes, it’s disturbing you support them.

When are you giving back what you have benefitted?

What have I benefitted from that everyone else hasn’t?

Many haven't benefitted from the trillions pumped into the markets.

Many? You mean most have and everyone has the opportunity. So I guess I haven’t gotten special treatment.

You have the opportunity to go back to school.

I already have a degree. No special treatment for me it seems.

You are getting plenty already.

Define “plenty”

More than others.

Others? You mean lazy leftists like you?

Again with the personal attacks as opposed to addressing my arguments. Bravo.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

While Xiden's answer was good on the level PROG-view is always wrong, where Xiden fucks up is it should be clear we erase NO STUDENT DEBT, not one dime. For temporary unemployment sure, delay debt @ no interest for a term. Otherwise forget about it.

You have to understand PROGS, they don't take responsibility for their actions. And many don't see a degree as a tangible asset. If it was a shiny new Mercedes then sure, they might understand there's a trade-off loan for car. Unless they're trained to think otherwise that is, PROGS are free-flowing & dependent.

PROGS aren't critical thinkers. They don't understand that by forgiving THEIR debt because of THEIR poor dispositions sends the wrong message. They don't really care they're being selfish & weak at your expense. Then again PROGS are contrary people, they might understand this well enough to embrace the entitlement. Combine that with a public that's dumbed down to their level you've entered their comfort zone.

Yeah probably. Misery loves company and so does insecurity. That is until they're the only one's left, because they'll fuck that up too.

 

[Slade3200]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

 

[Slade3200]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

He is a typical leftist. There are many on this board. Zero financial acumen.

Well its interesting because he was speaking out against the national debt, which I'm in total agreement with, however I like to dive into the details and test my and others understanding of it. So the simple question of "What effects of the national debt have you actually felt in your lifetime" I've found to be a very interesting. And its find to say "I don't know" if you don't know. Just want an honest conversation. But he avoided the answer and then when for some cheap word game thing to chalk up a win. He can have a win if thats all he wants. I don't really care, I don't think anybody else does either.

I answered your question. You did nothing to touch it. As a retiree I could conceivably live on 7% interest which would be near zero risk. Because of the debt the interest rates on savings have been driven down to near zero.

Put your money in a mutual fund and earn 8-10% on the conservative side. Put it in an annuity if you want guaranteed growth. In the mean time people can borrow money for cheap to buy homes, go to school and start businesses.

You asked me how it affected me, not those who wish to take out a mortgage.

Forgiving loans will cause costs to rise but ultra low interest rates won't?

Annuity rates are 2-3%.

Annuity rates were fixed at 5.5% last I checked but that doesn't really matter. You are saying that national debt was the reason for your interest rates going down but I laid out why I disagreed with that and provided what factors actually contributed to the rates dropping. You haven't addressed that yet. Care to do so now?

 

[pknopp]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

 

[Slade3200]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

He is a typical leftist. There are many on this board. Zero financial acumen.

Well its interesting because he was speaking out against the national debt, which I'm in total agreement with, however I like to dive into the details and test my and others understanding of it. So the simple question of "What effects of the national debt have you actually felt in your lifetime" I've found to be a very interesting. And its find to say "I don't know" if you don't know. Just want an honest conversation. But he avoided the answer and then went for some cheap word game thing to chalk up a win. He can have a win if thats all he wants. I don't really care, I don't think anybody else does either.

Yes...two parts. Entitlements and military spend. We need the military spend as it creates jobs in the corporate sector, helps keep us safe and is innovative. Entitlements are off the charts. We need to better control that. Debt doesn't impact our daily lives because we can print money and US innovation and overall safeness keeps USD as the primary currency but China is challenging that. This to me is the bigger risk. Currency devaluation vs. debt.

Agreed, however I haven't seen a significant change to the valuation of the dollar as the debt has risen. It still is the worlds currency and is in a pretty strong position. I think as long as we manage a healthy Debt to GDP ratio then things are functioning as they should in a growing economy. It feels like we are venturing into dangerous territory with the massive stimulus spending but as to exactly why, thats something I'd like to further explore

 

[Slade3200]

What do you all think of Bidens answer to this question?

sounds like biden aint got much confidence about his administrations ability to create jobs for college grads ..

Do you want Bidens admin to create public jobs or do you want private biz to create private sector jobs?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

Which could happen for one reason and one reason alone: cars and homes were relatively much cheaper.

 

[pknopp]

People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

Which could happen for one reason and one reason alone: cars and homes were relatively much cheaper.

Yes, low rates have drove up prices.

Hypocrisy here.

The argument was that if we forgave student loans it would drive up education costs. Seems that is bad.

Low rates driving up home and vehicle costs seems to be good though.

 

[Slade3200]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

He is a typical leftist. There are many on this board. Zero financial acumen.

Well its interesting because he was speaking out against the national debt, which I'm in total agreement with, however I like to dive into the details and test my and others understanding of it. So the simple question of "What effects of the national debt have you actually felt in your lifetime" I've found to be a very interesting. And its find to say "I don't know" if you don't know. Just want an honest conversation. But he avoided the answer and then went for some cheap word game thing to chalk up a win. He can have a win if thats all he wants. I don't really care, I don't think anybody else does either.

Yes...two parts. Entitlements and military spend. We need the military spend as it creates jobs in the corporate sector, helps keep us safe and is innovative. Entitlements are off the charts. We need to better control that. Debt doesn't impact our daily lives because we can print money and US innovation and overall safeness keeps USD as the primary currency but China is challenging that. This to me is the bigger risk. Currency devaluation vs. debt.

Agreed, however I haven't seen a significant change to the valuation of the dollar as the debt has risen. It still is the worlds currency and is in a pretty strong position. I think as long as we manage a healthy Debt to GDP ratio then things are functioning as they should in a growing economy. It feels like we are venturing into dangerous territory with the massive stimulus spending but as to exactly why, thats something I'd like to further explore

By the time we see it's too late. So far so good

 

[pknopp]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

It's all done to allow the debt to continue to rise and to boost the markets.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yes, low rates have drove up prices.

Not exactly. While they can help keep prices high, you are being too simple. The difference in finance charges between 1980 rates and 2020 rates doesnt account for the large relative increase in cost of those items. (Relative to disposable income of the average household)

And a very large proportion of consumer debt is sitting at credit card rates upwards of 20%

The cost of homes and cars have continued to increase right about at pace. What has not increased on pace is wages. So now the 30-year mortgage and the 7-year car loan are the norm. Uheard of 30 or 40 years ago.

Furthermore, as we keep extending tax cuts to the wealthy and to corporations while wages stagnate (dropping our tax revenue as %of GDP to stupidly low levels), we have to go to one of our only tools left in the toolbox for mitigating our regularly repeating recessions: lowering the Fed target rate. What happens after that, as we recover, is that the Fed never gets a chance to get rates back up to the old par before the next recession. This again goes right back to wages. Want to kill the auto industry? Set the target rate at 7% and watch as people stop buying cars at the price needed for auto makers to be profitable.

Basically, this is all the consequence of Reaganomics. Trickle down horseshit. And we just saw a salient example in real time: Trump's ill-advised tax cuts.

 

[pknopp]

Yes, low rates have drove up prices.

Not exactly. While they can help keep prices high, you are being too simple. The difference in finance charges between 1980 rates and 2020 rates doesnt account for the large relative increase in cost of those items. (Relative to disposable income of the average household)

And a very large proportion of consumer debt is sitting at credit card rates upwards of 20%

The cost of homes and cars have continued to increase right about at pace. What has not increased on pace is wages. So now the 30-year mortgage and the 7-year car loan are the norm. Uheard of 30 or 40 years ago.

Furthermore, as we keep extending tax cuts to the wealthy and to corporations while wages stagnate (dropping our tax revenue as %of GDP to stupidly low levels), we have to go to one of our only tools left in the toolbox for mitigating our regularly repeating recessions: lowering the Fed target rate. What happens after that, as we recover, is that the Fed never gets a chance to get rates back up to the old par before the next recession. This again goes right back to wages. Want to kill the auto industry? Set the target rate at 7% and watch as people stop buying cars at the price needed for auto makers to be profitable.

Basically, this is all the consequence of Reaganomics. Trickle down horseshit. And we just saw a salient example in real time: Trump's ill-advised tax cuts.

I support policies that raise wages also. People will buy cars at 7% and automakers will still sell them profitably at that rate.

It was done for years.

 

[Slade3200]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

It's all done to allow the debt to continue to rise and to boost the markets.

Ok back that up because I would say that its done to promote more borrowing which stimulates the economy... This is like economics 101 but if you have a different theory then I'm open to listen but you're gonna need to back it up.

 

[Brain357]

Most of these people hoping for loan forgiveness must regret spending so much for school.

Did GM regret being an auto manufacturer when they got their loans forgiven?

GM got their loans forgiven? Link that please.

OMG, educate yourself. This has been covered so many times....................it really gets old.

There were bailouts. Not the same as forgiveness. Be specific. What are you referring to here? GM repaid their TARP loan. Where is the forgiveness? You made the statement, you provide the proof.

Educate yourself. I suspect you already know though.

They repaid their TARP loan. Show me otherwise.

You are already aware of the loss. Why do you do this?

General Motors Bailout Cost Taxpayers $11.2 Billion.

GM could have paid more. The Gov't didn't structure the repayment correctly.

In the five years since GM's bankruptcy it made $22.6 billion. But taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

In five years since bankruptcy GM made $22.6 billion while taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

money.cnn.com

Maybe you should educate yourself. GM is still around and paying taxes and employing workers. The Gov't gave them a sweetheart deal. Not GM's fault.

Students will get a sweetheart deal.

Lotta money at a minority of people. It’s a vote loser for sure. Those who have paid already will be mad. Future people who don’t get forgiveness will be mad. Cost of college will only go up. You wanna lose control on unfair policy?

Biden has long run on this. He won. (he really did).

I want it all to fall apart so I don't care about control.

Well we’ve made it clear it is unfair policy. I’m not on board.

You don't have to be. The country is full of nothing but unfair policies.

Yes, it’s disturbing you support them.

When are you giving back what you have benefitted?

What have I benefitted from that everyone else hasn’t?

Many haven't benefitted from the trillions pumped into the markets.

Many? You mean most have and everyone has the opportunity. So I guess I haven’t gotten special treatment.

You have the opportunity to go back to school.

I already have a degree. No special treatment for me it seems.

You are getting plenty already.

You are back to that? Take a shot at it again then. Your claim is benefitted by pretty much everyone, that isn’t special treatment...

Just over half and as I have noted, many would prefer to be out of the markets and into a fair and safe interest bearing account.

What Percentage of Americans Owns Stock?

Many probably have IRA's or 401K's that they didn't realize hold stocks when they responded. Regardless it is an option for EVERYBODY.

 

[Brain357]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

He is a typical leftist. There are many on this board. Zero financial acumen.

Well its interesting because he was speaking out against the national debt, which I'm in total agreement with, however I like to dive into the details and test my and others understanding of it. So the simple question of "What effects of the national debt have you actually felt in your lifetime" I've found to be a very interesting. And its find to say "I don't know" if you don't know. Just want an honest conversation. But he avoided the answer and then went for some cheap word game thing to chalk up a win. He can have a win if thats all he wants. I don't really care, I don't think anybody else does either.

Yes...two parts. Entitlements and military spend. We need the military spend as it creates jobs in the corporate sector, helps keep us safe and is innovative. Entitlements are off the charts. We need to better control that. Debt doesn't impact our daily lives because we can print money and US innovation and overall safeness keeps USD as the primary currency but China is challenging that. This to me is the bigger risk. Currency devaluation vs. debt.

Agreed, however I haven't seen a significant change to the valuation of the dollar as the debt has risen. It still is the worlds currency and is in a pretty strong position. I think as long as we manage a healthy Debt to GDP ratio then things are functioning as they should in a growing economy. It feels like we are venturing into dangerous territory with the massive stimulus spending but as to exactly why, thats something I'd like to further explore

If China passes us as the biggest economy, it won't be the world currency and we will be in a lot of trouble...

 

[pknopp]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

It's all done to allow the debt to continue to rise and to boost the markets.

Ok back that up because I would say that its done to promote more borrowing which stimulates the economy... This is like economics 101 but if you have a different theory then I'm open to listen but you're gonna need to back it up.

Sorry, are you really arguing that the ultra low interest rates have nothing to do with the debt? How would the daily news be today if we were $28 trillion in debt and rates were at 9%?


Explain something to me. The argument in economics forever has been in good economic times you raise taxes and interest rates. Trump bragged over and over how he oversaw the greatest economy ever yet we did not raise tax or interest rates. He actually threatened the Fed for arguing they would raise rates.

Where would the money be coming from if rates were even 7%?