Biden on forgiving student loan debt

[AzogtheDefiler]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

He is a typical leftist. There are many on this board. Zero financial acumen.

Well its interesting because he was speaking out against the national debt, which I'm in total agreement with, however I like to dive into the details and test my and others understanding of it. So the simple question of "What effects of the national debt have you actually felt in your lifetime" I've found to be a very interesting. And its find to say "I don't know" if you don't know. Just want an honest conversation. But he avoided the answer and then went for some cheap word game thing to chalk up a win. He can have a win if thats all he wants. I don't really care, I don't think anybody else does either.

Yes...two parts. Entitlements and military spend. We need the military spend as it creates jobs in the corporate sector, helps keep us safe and is innovative. Entitlements are off the charts. We need to better control that. Debt doesn't impact our daily lives because we can print money and US innovation and overall safeness keeps USD as the primary currency but China is challenging that. This to me is the bigger risk. Currency devaluation vs. debt.

Agreed, however I haven't seen a significant change to the valuation of the dollar as the debt has risen. It still is the worlds currency and is in a pretty strong position. I think as long as we manage a healthy Debt to GDP ratio then things are functioning as they should in a growing economy. It feels like we are venturing into dangerous territory with the massive stimulus spending but as to exactly why, thats something I'd like to further explore

If China passes us as the biggest economy, it won't be the world currency and we will be in a lot of trouble...

Exactly. So if it happens it’s too late. We need to cease being fiscally irresponsible.

 

[pknopp]

Most of these people hoping for loan forgiveness must regret spending so much for school.

Did GM regret being an auto manufacturer when they got their loans forgiven?

GM got their loans forgiven? Link that please.

OMG, educate yourself. This has been covered so many times....................it really gets old.

There were bailouts. Not the same as forgiveness. Be specific. What are you referring to here? GM repaid their TARP loan. Where is the forgiveness? You made the statement, you provide the proof.

Educate yourself. I suspect you already know though.

They repaid their TARP loan. Show me otherwise.

You are already aware of the loss. Why do you do this?

General Motors Bailout Cost Taxpayers $11.2 Billion.

GM could have paid more. The Gov't didn't structure the repayment correctly.

In the five years since GM's bankruptcy it made $22.6 billion. But taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

In five years since bankruptcy GM made $22.6 billion while taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

money.cnn.com

Maybe you should educate yourself. GM is still around and paying taxes and employing workers. The Gov't gave them a sweetheart deal. Not GM's fault.

Students will get a sweetheart deal.

Lotta money at a minority of people. It’s a vote loser for sure. Those who have paid already will be mad. Future people who don’t get forgiveness will be mad. Cost of college will only go up. You wanna lose control on unfair policy?

Biden has long run on this. He won. (he really did).

I want it all to fall apart so I don't care about control.

Well we’ve made it clear it is unfair policy. I’m not on board.

You don't have to be. The country is full of nothing but unfair policies.

Yes, it’s disturbing you support them.

When are you giving back what you have benefitted?

What have I benefitted from that everyone else hasn’t?

Many haven't benefitted from the trillions pumped into the markets.

Many? You mean most have and everyone has the opportunity. So I guess I haven’t gotten special treatment.

You have the opportunity to go back to school.

I already have a degree. No special treatment for me it seems.

You are getting plenty already.

You are back to that? Take a shot at it again then. Your claim is benefitted by pretty much everyone, that isn’t special treatment...

Just over half and as I have noted, many would prefer to be out of the markets and into a fair and safe interest bearing account.

What Percentage of Americans Owns Stock?

Many probably have IRA's or 401K's that they didn't realize hold stocks when they responded. Regardless it is an option for EVERYBODY.

Right, everyone else is just ignorant and you are the only one with the answers.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

It's all done to allow the debt to continue to rise and to boost the markets.

Ok back that up because I would say that its done to promote more borrowing which stimulates the economy... This is like economics 101 but if you have a different theory then I'm open to listen but you're gonna need to back it up.

Sorry, are you really arguing that the ultra low interest rates have nothing to do with the debt? How would the daily news be today if we were $28 trillion in debt and rates were at 9%?


Explain something to me. The argument in economics forever has been in good economic times you raise taxes and interest rates. Trump bragged over and over how he oversaw the greatest economy ever yet we did not raise tax or interest rates. He actually threatened the Fed for arguing they would raise rates.

Where would the money be coming from if rates were even 7%?

The printing press. If we had high rates we could not compete globally. Some countries have negative interest rates.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Most of these people hoping for loan forgiveness must regret spending so much for school.

Did GM regret being an auto manufacturer when they got their loans forgiven?

GM got their loans forgiven? Link that please.

OMG, educate yourself. This has been covered so many times....................it really gets old.

There were bailouts. Not the same as forgiveness. Be specific. What are you referring to here? GM repaid their TARP loan. Where is the forgiveness? You made the statement, you provide the proof.

Educate yourself. I suspect you already know though.

They repaid their TARP loan. Show me otherwise.

You are already aware of the loss. Why do you do this?

General Motors Bailout Cost Taxpayers $11.2 Billion.

GM could have paid more. The Gov't didn't structure the repayment correctly.

In the five years since GM's bankruptcy it made $22.6 billion. But taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

In five years since bankruptcy GM made $22.6 billion while taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

money.cnn.com

Maybe you should educate yourself. GM is still around and paying taxes and employing workers. The Gov't gave them a sweetheart deal. Not GM's fault.

Students will get a sweetheart deal.

Lotta money at a minority of people. It’s a vote loser for sure. Those who have paid already will be mad. Future people who don’t get forgiveness will be mad. Cost of college will only go up. You wanna lose control on unfair policy?

Biden has long run on this. He won. (he really did).

I want it all to fall apart so I don't care about control.

Well we’ve made it clear it is unfair policy. I’m not on board.

You don't have to be. The country is full of nothing but unfair policies.

Yes, it’s disturbing you support them.

When are you giving back what you have benefitted?

What have I benefitted from that everyone else hasn’t?

Many haven't benefitted from the trillions pumped into the markets.

Many? You mean most have and everyone has the opportunity. So I guess I haven’t gotten special treatment.

You have the opportunity to go back to school.

I already have a degree. No special treatment for me it seems.

You are getting plenty already.

You are back to that? Take a shot at it again then. Your claim is benefitted by pretty much everyone, that isn’t special treatment...

Just over half and as I have noted, many would prefer to be out of the markets and into a fair and safe interest bearing account.

What Percentage of Americans Owns Stock?

Many probably have IRA's or 401K's that they didn't realize hold stocks when they responded. Regardless it is an option for EVERYBODY.

Right, everyone else is just ignorant and you are the only one with the answers.

Not everyone but many for sure. 401k and or IRAs are options for the vast majority.

 

[pknopp]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

He is a typical leftist. There are many on this board. Zero financial acumen.

Well its interesting because he was speaking out against the national debt, which I'm in total agreement with, however I like to dive into the details and test my and others understanding of it. So the simple question of "What effects of the national debt have you actually felt in your lifetime" I've found to be a very interesting. And its find to say "I don't know" if you don't know. Just want an honest conversation. But he avoided the answer and then went for some cheap word game thing to chalk up a win. He can have a win if thats all he wants. I don't really care, I don't think anybody else does either.

Yes...two parts. Entitlements and military spend. We need the military spend as it creates jobs in the corporate sector, helps keep us safe and is innovative. Entitlements are off the charts. We need to better control that. Debt doesn't impact our daily lives because we can print money and US innovation and overall safeness keeps USD as the primary currency but China is challenging that. This to me is the bigger risk. Currency devaluation vs. debt.

Agreed, however I haven't seen a significant change to the valuation of the dollar as the debt has risen. It still is the worlds currency and is in a pretty strong position. I think as long as we manage a healthy Debt to GDP ratio then things are functioning as they should in a growing economy. It feels like we are venturing into dangerous territory with the massive stimulus spending but as to exactly why, thats something I'd like to further explore

If China passes us as the biggest economy, it won't be the world currency and we will be in a lot of trouble...

It's inevitable. They have 1.5 billion people.

 

[Brain357]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

It's all done to allow the debt to continue to rise and to boost the markets.

Ok back that up because I would say that its done to promote more borrowing which stimulates the economy... This is like economics 101 but if you have a different theory then I'm open to listen but you're gonna need to back it up.

Sorry, are you really arguing that the ultra low interest rates have nothing to do with the debt? How would the daily news be today if we were $28 trillion in debt and rates were at 9%?


Explain something to me. The argument in economics forever has been in good economic times you raise taxes and interest rates. Trump bragged over and over how he oversaw the greatest economy ever yet we did not raise tax or interest rates. He actually threatened the Fed for arguing they would raise rates.

Where would the money be coming from if rates were even 7%?

While it certainly would have been wise to raise interest rates, I've never heard your tax claim before. We should have been decreasing deficits, but trump cut taxes and increased military spending. Increasing deficits during a strong economy is the worst.

 

[pknopp]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

It's all done to allow the debt to continue to rise and to boost the markets.

Ok back that up because I would say that its done to promote more borrowing which stimulates the economy... This is like economics 101 but if you have a different theory then I'm open to listen but you're gonna need to back it up.

Sorry, are you really arguing that the ultra low interest rates have nothing to do with the debt? How would the daily news be today if we were $28 trillion in debt and rates were at 9%?


Explain something to me. The argument in economics forever has been in good economic times you raise taxes and interest rates. Trump bragged over and over how he oversaw the greatest economy ever yet we did not raise tax or interest rates. He actually threatened the Fed for arguing they would raise rates.

Where would the money be coming from if rates were even 7%?

The printing press. If we had high rates we could not compete globally. Some countries have negative interest rates.

Which countries?

 

[Slade3200]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

He is a typical leftist. There are many on this board. Zero financial acumen.

Well its interesting because he was speaking out against the national debt, which I'm in total agreement with, however I like to dive into the details and test my and others understanding of it. So the simple question of "What effects of the national debt have you actually felt in your lifetime" I've found to be a very interesting. And its find to say "I don't know" if you don't know. Just want an honest conversation. But he avoided the answer and then went for some cheap word game thing to chalk up a win. He can have a win if thats all he wants. I don't really care, I don't think anybody else does either.

Yes...two parts. Entitlements and military spend. We need the military spend as it creates jobs in the corporate sector, helps keep us safe and is innovative. Entitlements are off the charts. We need to better control that. Debt doesn't impact our daily lives because we can print money and US innovation and overall safeness keeps USD as the primary currency but China is challenging that. This to me is the bigger risk. Currency devaluation vs. debt.

Agreed, however I haven't seen a significant change to the valuation of the dollar as the debt has risen. It still is the worlds currency and is in a pretty strong position. I think as long as we manage a healthy Debt to GDP ratio then things are functioning as they should in a growing economy. It feels like we are venturing into dangerous territory with the massive stimulus spending but as to exactly why, thats something I'd like to further explore

If China passes us as the biggest economy, it won't be the world currency and we will be in a lot of trouble...

We got a 7 trillion dollar lead... gotta keep cracking the whip

 

[Brain357]

Most of these people hoping for loan forgiveness must regret spending so much for school.

Did GM regret being an auto manufacturer when they got their loans forgiven?

GM got their loans forgiven? Link that please.

OMG, educate yourself. This has been covered so many times....................it really gets old.

There were bailouts. Not the same as forgiveness. Be specific. What are you referring to here? GM repaid their TARP loan. Where is the forgiveness? You made the statement, you provide the proof.

Educate yourself. I suspect you already know though.

They repaid their TARP loan. Show me otherwise.

You are already aware of the loss. Why do you do this?

General Motors Bailout Cost Taxpayers $11.2 Billion.

GM could have paid more. The Gov't didn't structure the repayment correctly.

In the five years since GM's bankruptcy it made $22.6 billion. But taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

In five years since bankruptcy GM made $22.6 billion while taxpayers lost $10.6 billion on bailout that saved the company.

money.cnn.com

Maybe you should educate yourself. GM is still around and paying taxes and employing workers. The Gov't gave them a sweetheart deal. Not GM's fault.

Students will get a sweetheart deal.

Lotta money at a minority of people. It’s a vote loser for sure. Those who have paid already will be mad. Future people who don’t get forgiveness will be mad. Cost of college will only go up. You wanna lose control on unfair policy?

Biden has long run on this. He won. (he really did).

I want it all to fall apart so I don't care about control.

Well we’ve made it clear it is unfair policy. I’m not on board.

You don't have to be. The country is full of nothing but unfair policies.

Yes, it’s disturbing you support them.

When are you giving back what you have benefitted?

What have I benefitted from that everyone else hasn’t?

Many haven't benefitted from the trillions pumped into the markets.

Many? You mean most have and everyone has the opportunity. So I guess I haven’t gotten special treatment.

You have the opportunity to go back to school.

I already have a degree. No special treatment for me it seems.

You are getting plenty already.

You are back to that? Take a shot at it again then. Your claim is benefitted by pretty much everyone, that isn’t special treatment...

Just over half and as I have noted, many would prefer to be out of the markets and into a fair and safe interest bearing account.

What Percentage of Americans Owns Stock?

Many probably have IRA's or 401K's that they didn't realize hold stocks when they responded. Regardless it is an option for EVERYBODY.

Right, everyone else is just ignorant and you are the only one with the answers.

Well I am the Brain. You can't argue that stocks aren't an option for EVERYBODY, so that kills your whole argument.

 

[Brain357]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

He is a typical leftist. There are many on this board. Zero financial acumen.

Well its interesting because he was speaking out against the national debt, which I'm in total agreement with, however I like to dive into the details and test my and others understanding of it. So the simple question of "What effects of the national debt have you actually felt in your lifetime" I've found to be a very interesting. And its find to say "I don't know" if you don't know. Just want an honest conversation. But he avoided the answer and then went for some cheap word game thing to chalk up a win. He can have a win if thats all he wants. I don't really care, I don't think anybody else does either.

Yes...two parts. Entitlements and military spend. We need the military spend as it creates jobs in the corporate sector, helps keep us safe and is innovative. Entitlements are off the charts. We need to better control that. Debt doesn't impact our daily lives because we can print money and US innovation and overall safeness keeps USD as the primary currency but China is challenging that. This to me is the bigger risk. Currency devaluation vs. debt.

Agreed, however I haven't seen a significant change to the valuation of the dollar as the debt has risen. It still is the worlds currency and is in a pretty strong position. I think as long as we manage a healthy Debt to GDP ratio then things are functioning as they should in a growing economy. It feels like we are venturing into dangerous territory with the massive stimulus spending but as to exactly why, thats something I'd like to further explore

If China passes us as the biggest economy, it won't be the world currency and we will be in a lot of trouble...

It's inevitable. They have 1.5 billion people.

It will only happen if we keep messing up. The one child policy is going to kill them. Soon they will have a huge population of elderly to care for.

 

[pknopp]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

It's all done to allow the debt to continue to rise and to boost the markets.

Ok back that up because I would say that its done to promote more borrowing which stimulates the economy... This is like economics 101 but if you have a different theory then I'm open to listen but you're gonna need to back it up.

Sorry, are you really arguing that the ultra low interest rates have nothing to do with the debt? How would the daily news be today if we were $28 trillion in debt and rates were at 9%?


Explain something to me. The argument in economics forever has been in good economic times you raise taxes and interest rates. Trump bragged over and over how he oversaw the greatest economy ever yet we did not raise tax or interest rates. He actually threatened the Fed for arguing they would raise rates.

Where would the money be coming from if rates were even 7%?

While it certainly would have been wise to raise interest rates, I've never heard your tax claim before. We should have been decreasing deficits, but trump cut taxes and increased military spending. Increasing deficits during a strong economy is the worst.

Which is why I support it all collapsing. If Trump wasn't going to do it, who do you suppose will?

 

[Brain357]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

He is a typical leftist. There are many on this board. Zero financial acumen.

Well its interesting because he was speaking out against the national debt, which I'm in total agreement with, however I like to dive into the details and test my and others understanding of it. So the simple question of "What effects of the national debt have you actually felt in your lifetime" I've found to be a very interesting. And its find to say "I don't know" if you don't know. Just want an honest conversation. But he avoided the answer and then went for some cheap word game thing to chalk up a win. He can have a win if thats all he wants. I don't really care, I don't think anybody else does either.

Yes...two parts. Entitlements and military spend. We need the military spend as it creates jobs in the corporate sector, helps keep us safe and is innovative. Entitlements are off the charts. We need to better control that. Debt doesn't impact our daily lives because we can print money and US innovation and overall safeness keeps USD as the primary currency but China is challenging that. This to me is the bigger risk. Currency devaluation vs. debt.

Agreed, however I haven't seen a significant change to the valuation of the dollar as the debt has risen. It still is the worlds currency and is in a pretty strong position. I think as long as we manage a healthy Debt to GDP ratio then things are functioning as they should in a growing economy. It feels like we are venturing into dangerous territory with the massive stimulus spending but as to exactly why, thats something I'd like to further explore

If China passes us as the biggest economy, it won't be the world currency and we will be in a lot of trouble...

We got a 7 trillion dollar lead... gotta keep cracking the whip

We need to get rid of all the cronyism and near monopolies. Our growing inequality is slowing us... Not to mention all the other stupid policies...

 

[pknopp]

Many probably have IRA's or 401K's that they didn't realize hold stocks when they responded. Regardless it is an option for EVERYBODY.

College is an option for nearly everyone also but once again we are back to the idea of whatever is good for you and screw others.

 

[Brain357]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

It's all done to allow the debt to continue to rise and to boost the markets.

Ok back that up because I would say that its done to promote more borrowing which stimulates the economy... This is like economics 101 but if you have a different theory then I'm open to listen but you're gonna need to back it up.

Sorry, are you really arguing that the ultra low interest rates have nothing to do with the debt? How would the daily news be today if we were $28 trillion in debt and rates were at 9%?


Explain something to me. The argument in economics forever has been in good economic times you raise taxes and interest rates. Trump bragged over and over how he oversaw the greatest economy ever yet we did not raise tax or interest rates. He actually threatened the Fed for arguing they would raise rates.

Where would the money be coming from if rates were even 7%?

While it certainly would have been wise to raise interest rates, I've never heard your tax claim before. We should have been decreasing deficits, but trump cut taxes and increased military spending. Increasing deficits during a strong economy is the worst.

Which is why I support it all collapsing. If Trump wasn't going to do it, who do you suppose will?

Decrease deficits? A democrat I assume. They were generally decreasing for Obama. We can outgrow deficits if we avoid tax cuts and huge spending increases.

 

[Slade3200]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

It's all done to allow the debt to continue to rise and to boost the markets.

Ok back that up because I would say that its done to promote more borrowing which stimulates the economy... This is like economics 101 but if you have a different theory then I'm open to listen but you're gonna need to back it up.

Sorry, are you really arguing that the ultra low interest rates have nothing to do with the debt? How would the daily news be today if we were $28 trillion in debt and rates were at 9%?


Explain something to me. The argument in economics forever has been in good economic times you raise taxes and interest rates. Trump bragged over and over how he oversaw the greatest economy ever yet we did not raise tax or interest rates. He actually threatened the Fed for arguing they would raise rates.

Where would the money be coming from if rates were even 7%?

Tax revenues come from economic activity higher rates equal less borrowing equals less activity. Of Course you need to find the sweet spot... But the factor I don't see in this equation is the national debt. You still haven't explained how that practically effects things. My examples actually show cause and effect. yours doesn't... Can you elaborate more on how you think the national debt effects rates?

 

[pknopp]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

It's all done to allow the debt to continue to rise and to boost the markets.

Ok back that up because I would say that its done to promote more borrowing which stimulates the economy... This is like economics 101 but if you have a different theory then I'm open to listen but you're gonna need to back it up.

Sorry, are you really arguing that the ultra low interest rates have nothing to do with the debt? How would the daily news be today if we were $28 trillion in debt and rates were at 9%?


Explain something to me. The argument in economics forever has been in good economic times you raise taxes and interest rates. Trump bragged over and over how he oversaw the greatest economy ever yet we did not raise tax or interest rates. He actually threatened the Fed for arguing they would raise rates.

Where would the money be coming from if rates were even 7%?

While it certainly would have been wise to raise interest rates, I've never heard your tax claim before. We should have been decreasing deficits, but trump cut taxes and increased military spending. Increasing deficits during a strong economy is the worst.

Which is why I support it all collapsing. If Trump wasn't going to do it, who do you suppose will?

Decrease deficits? A democrat I assume. They were generally decreasing for Obama. We can outgrow deficits if we avoid tax cuts and huge spending increases.

They came down from the huge deficits from bailing out wall street but the deficit still continued to increase.

 

[Brain357]

Many probably have IRA's or 401K's that they didn't realize hold stocks when they responded. Regardless it is an option for EVERYBODY.

College is an option for nearly everyone also but once again we are back to the idea of whatever is good for you and screw others.

Screw others? Stocks are an option for everybody, who is getting screwed?

 

[pknopp]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

It's all done to allow the debt to continue to rise and to boost the markets.

Ok back that up because I would say that its done to promote more borrowing which stimulates the economy... This is like economics 101 but if you have a different theory then I'm open to listen but you're gonna need to back it up.

Sorry, are you really arguing that the ultra low interest rates have nothing to do with the debt? How would the daily news be today if we were $28 trillion in debt and rates were at 9%?


Explain something to me. The argument in economics forever has been in good economic times you raise taxes and interest rates. Trump bragged over and over how he oversaw the greatest economy ever yet we did not raise tax or interest rates. He actually threatened the Fed for arguing they would raise rates.

Where would the money be coming from if rates were even 7%?

Tax revenues come from economic activity higher rates equal less borrowing equals less activity. Of Course you need to find the sweet spot... But the factor I don't see in this equation is the national debt. You still haven't explained how that practically effects things. My examples actually show cause and effect. yours doesn't... Can you elaborate more on how you think the national debt effects rates.

Rates were driven down because of our huge deficits and to boost wall street. I've already addressed this.

 

[Brain357]

And who does everyone thing will be picking up the tab??

Why we tax payers of course.

If you want to go to college, get a job or a loan and go. Just don't expect the tax payers to pay your college bill for you.

The same people who pick up the tab when a big corporation bails and raids the retirement funds the govt. insures.

Then that makes everything okay? I’m tired of every stupid decision someone makes, we pay for. Trillions in debt, and those that promised to pay need to be held accountable and quit sponging off the working middle class.

I'm not meaning to promote debt but I am curious... How has the trillions in debt that our country has accumulated impacted your life?

It's going to. The rest of the world isn't going to allow us to print, print, print to buy new cars and vacation homes while they struggle with basic needs forever. It may not affect me but it's going to greatly affect future generations and as I note many times, it's not just about me.

I get the "its going to" argument but we have carried a national debt for generations. So my question is what actual effects have you felt in your lifetime as a result of the national debt?

I told you. I care about future generations. It also makes me want to puke when one group getting billions a year complains about those below them getting a little help.

I know you care about future generations as do I. Like I said, im not dismissing the importance of fiscal responsibility but I am asking if you or anybody you know has actually been impacted from the National debt. And if so, how?

You simply dismiss concerns as not legit.

Such as I want UHC. Even though someone like Sanders promotes a plan largely paid for people scream BUT we are $28 trillion in debt.

I never said your concerns weren't legit, I actually shared your concerns, don't put words in my mouth. But, I'm asking very simple questions and you keep avoiding direct answers.

I've answered it more than once.

You are right you answered the question, but you did so indirectly. You didn't actually give a direct answer the question that I asked. It was a very simple yes or no question that would involve some details if yes. I'm guessing the answer is No, you haven't seen any effects in your lifetime but you are concerned about the future. Is that right? Too bad I need to play guessing games to get a straight answer. Hope you can do better in the future

I explained how it directly affects me. The debt affects nearly everything. Interest rates such as how a retiree used to be able to live off interest on their savings. Now there is no interest.

I was looking at an older pic yesterday. 50 years appx. Banks were advertising 7% on savings. A retiree could do pretty well on that. Now they can't.

But you realize back then mortages were near 15-20% right?

No they weren't. They were in the 80's. That's when we really started screwing things up.

Yes thats what they were in the 80's, they were between 8-12% in the 70's 50 years ago. What are you arguing about? My point is valid no matter what the interest rates are, I was speaking to what correlates with interest rates and I don't see how the national debt effected rates in the way that you claimed.


View attachment 458304

The rates have been driven down to finance the debt.

Yes because new money is created from borrowing and borrowing is what circulates money and grows the economy. Do you want a 15% mortgage on your home loan in exchange for a 7% interest rate on your savings account? Would you make that deal?

I don't need a mortgage. I was asked how it would affect me. All the same, I've already disputed the accusation that when banks were paying 7% that home loans were 15% so dismissed.

Ooh boy, you sure showed me... you win. I guess thats all your looking for instead of a substantive debate. Good day

You wanted an example. I provided quite a few. So what do you consider a debate? Answering your question doesn't qualify?

You provided some examples yes and then I asked about the examples. Like the interest rates. Why do you think the national debt effected the interest rates? They were obviously lowered to encourage borrowing. Why would we want to encourage borrowing? Because that creates new money and stimulates the economy. It also give people the opportunity to own houses and start new businesses. Those are the real reasons why interest rates have changed. If you disagree and still think it is because of the national debt then please explain why and how

Please. If you want a debate, either don't pretend to not understand or educate yourself.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree, I provided my reasoning and asked you to explain why you would disagree but you reply back with this crap?! come on

The rates are low to finance the debt. If there is a need the interest rate is a secondary concern. People were starting businesses and buying cars and homes when interest rates were far higher.

I sold cars from 1987-1995. It was a big deal if we would get rates below 9 something. We still sold cars everyday. The first house I bought in 1985 was 9.9%.

I don't see what that had to do with my question or what we are discussing. You are showing how the national debt increase causes rates to drop. There are so many other policy reasons that caused the rates to drop that had nothing to do with the national debt.

It's all done to allow the debt to continue to rise and to boost the markets.

Ok back that up because I would say that its done to promote more borrowing which stimulates the economy... This is like economics 101 but if you have a different theory then I'm open to listen but you're gonna need to back it up.

Sorry, are you really arguing that the ultra low interest rates have nothing to do with the debt? How would the daily news be today if we were $28 trillion in debt and rates were at 9%?


Explain something to me. The argument in economics forever has been in good economic times you raise taxes and interest rates. Trump bragged over and over how he oversaw the greatest economy ever yet we did not raise tax or interest rates. He actually threatened the Fed for arguing they would raise rates.

Where would the money be coming from if rates were even 7%?

While it certainly would have been wise to raise interest rates, I've never heard your tax claim before. We should have been decreasing deficits, but trump cut taxes and increased military spending. Increasing deficits during a strong economy is the worst.

Which is why I support it all collapsing. If Trump wasn't going to do it, who do you suppose will?

Decrease deficits? A democrat I assume. They were generally decreasing for Obama. We can outgrow deficits if we avoid tax cuts and huge spending increases.

They came down from the huge deficits from bailing out wall street but the deficit still continued to increase.

If fluctuated but it went from $1.6 billion to $600 billion. I see no reason it wouldn't have declined if we hadn't gotten tax cuts and increased spending.

 

[pknopp]

Many probably have IRA's or 401K's that they didn't realize hold stocks when they responded. Regardless it is an option for EVERYBODY.

College is an option for nearly everyone also but once again we are back to the idea of whatever is good for you and screw others.

Screw others? Stocks are an option for everybody, who is getting screwed?

millions can barely cover their rent. Stocks are not an option.