Border Adjustment Tax Is Worthy of Support

[Luddly Neddite]

President Trump’s support in getting elected POTUS, in part, came from the proposal to slap outsource companies overseas, with tariffs on their imports. The idea being to make it uneconomical for those companies to operate outside the US.

Forcing them to return to the US, together with deporting illegal aliens, will indeed create more jobs (FOR AMERICANS), dramatically raise the amount of disposable income inside the US, and boost sales of US companies, creating the GDP growth we need.

Well. Now we have the naysayers. As with most critics, they are a varied group. First, there are those companies who ARE operating outside the US (and their stockholders), who don’t want to change. They only care about what’s good for THEM, and not the nation.

Then there’s the outsourcing lobby groups (Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, etc). Then there’s opportunist politicians who support outsourcing for their own personal political gain (ex. Hillary Clinton). Last but not least there’s the Trump bashers who simply cling to an opposition of whatever Trump does, and then conjure up some ”reason” to oppose him.

Perhaps the main thrust of the tariff opponents, is the claim that they will harm the American consumers by causing prices to rise on the taxed imports. 40 years ago, as an economics teacher in the City University of New York, I taught how companies employ this myth as a scare tactic to anyone who never studied microeconomics, and doesn’t know the simple fact about how prices are established (and maintained).

Briefly, firms CANNOT just raise prices whenever they fell like it. As a former business owner myself, I know that each product has its MARKET price. This comes from the market, not us business owners. We actually have little to nothing to say about what our price will be.

The price is the highest price that can be charged, without triggering income reductions from reductions in SALES$$. A price is a number. It’s not just somebody’s lucky number. Or their birthday. Pricing experience reveals what the market price is, and any change up or down, results in reduced income.

This can be graphically shown by a bell-shaped curve, with income on the Y axis, and prices rising on the X axis. The market price (ei. the prices you see on the store shelves) are a point on the top of the curve.

View attachment 130383

Without a college course, people can just use their common sense. If firms could bring more money in (to compensate for some new expense), just by raising prices, why wouldn’t they have had those higher prices the month before ? And the month before that, etc ?

And why wouldn’t the price of every single item in Walmart be a million dollars ? Answer ? >> SALES.

"Forcing them to return to the US"

Does that include what's listed in the link in my signature?

Go ahead cupcake. Explain why you believe those jobs should no be in the US.

[emoji849]


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Notice how the hypocritical, cowardly trumpkins carefully avoid any mention of the look in my signature.

[emoji23]


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[toobfreak]

I am 100% all for border adjustment. I say we get Trump, put together a kickass, take-no-prisoners army, and move the northern border up about 200 miles further up, and move the southern border about 200 miles further down and just TAKE THE LAND. Kill everything that gets in our way. Then we will have the room we need, maybe cut off California and New England as foreign hostile territory, put up a wall and send all the undesirables there. Come across our border, and pay a 100% tax or die.

Wow.

You really are frootier than a nutcake.

I was just making a joke, delinquent. And it is FRUIT, not FROOT.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I am 100% all for border adjustment. I say we get Trump, put together a kickass, take-no-prisoners army, and move the northern border up about 200 miles further up, and move the southern border about 200 miles further down and just TAKE THE LAND. Kill everything that gets in our way. Then we will have the room we need, Come across our border, and pay a 100% tax or die.

Old School: Manifest Destiny
Prep School: Many Fuzzy Desktops

That's similar to what President Polk actually accomplished. He also wanted to take British Columbia and Baja California, but the static plutocracy that has always owned our government was too cheap to fund a military strong enough to do that.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

Why should I be forced to buy more expensive American goods when other countries can do it better. American workers and companies can be the biggest whiners in the world sometimes. I voted for Trump but this is one issue I disagree with.

 

[protectionist]

Automation IS being used. As I said, 88 percent of lost manufacturing jobs are due to increased production brought about by technology. It is happening, and you are nuts if you think it is going to stop.

See for yourself: http://conexus.cberdata.org/files/MfgReality.pdf

Almost 88 percent of job losses in manufacturing in recent years can be attributable to productivity growth, and the long-term changes to manufacturing employment are mostly linked to the productivity of American factories.

Doesn't relate to tariff issue. Trump has strong issue on tariffs, with or without automation.

 

[protectionist]

"Forcing them to return to the US"

Does that include what's listed in the link in my signature?

Go ahead cupcake. Explain why you believe those jobs should no be in the US.

[emoji849]

Why would I be explaining why "those jobs should no be in the US" ?, when I believe they SHOULD be in the US (which is why I support Trump's tariff positions)..

 

[protectionist]

Nope. Wrong.

Are you people even looking at the links I have been providing?

Donald Trump Warns of 35% Tariff For Companies That Move Abroad

Donald Trump uses Sunday morning tweetstorm to make policy

TRUMP, TARIFFS, TERRA, and TWEETS

Trump tweet gives hope to border tax boosters

Trump Could Make Good On Tariff Threats, Thanks To Existing Laws

 

[protectionist]

There are many studies that conclude the same thing. You however have none that support your claims. Tariffs never work.

I need not bother to go to studies on tariffs from the past, when conditions were not the same as they are now, with so much of America's manufacturing companies overseas. Is this the 10th or 11th time I've told you this now ?

 

[busybee01]

Why bother? Kudlow who is a Trump supporter says we should concentrate on a pro-growth tax policy rather than managed trade.

You don't understand. Why bother doing all that re-adjusting?

Both will contribute to keeping Americans jobs here. Both will give us a more favorable balance of payments.

Both are attacks on the American consumer. Sad that liberals like you want to punish Americans.

Neither is an attack on consumers and how crazy do you have to be to think I am a liberal?

They are a attack on consumers. Who do you think is going to pay the tariffs? Consumers. You sound exactly like Bernie Sanders who is a socialist.

A consumer is some one who has a job, so saving American jobs can hardly be called an attack on consumers.

Even a broken clock is correct once a day, so the fact that Sanders also supports tariffs doesn't mean he is as right leaning as I am or that I am as left leaning as he is. Not everyone is an ideologue as you appear to be.

Forcing prices higher is a attack on consumers. It is also a attack on low income consumers. The fact is that consumers can decide by making their purchases. It is the government trying to manipulate the economy. That is why Sanders supports it.

 

[busybee01]

Yes that will change. We import lots or car parts and raw materials. Those will become more expensive increasing the cost of our cars. This will decrease demand and cost jobs. Exports will fall. Not to mention other countries will probably increase tariffs on our products.

FALSE! The tariffs won't "make foreign cars sold in the US more expensive" If the car companies foolishly DO raise their prices, it won't be for long, because, as their research tells them, this will trigger sales reductions which will cause LOSSES$$$$$.

Other countries ALREADY have large tariffs on our exports. The trade war you try to scare us with, has been in existence for decades. The only thing changing is that instead of the other countries fighting us, while we did nothing, now we will fight in that trade war as well. And we will win in a walk. Why ? Simply because we have, by far, the biggest MARKET in the world. We have hundreds of millions of CONSUMERS with money in our pockets. Bottom line ? They need us more than we need them.

As Pat Buchanan, has said "We'll eat their lunch."

Many of the cars made in Mexico are low margin vehicles. If the tariffs erode the remaining profit and they cannot raise prices they will drop the product. That will hurt middle and low class consumers.

TPP would have lowered or eliminated tariffs on thousands of American goods and services. Trump walked away from that. Also is the US prepared to eliminate tariffs and other restrictions that certain foreign products face? A shipload of pizzas were stopped at the docks because they had a minute amount of sugar in them.

 

[busybee01]

Killing exports will not create US jobs. Good luck exporting any overpriced cars.

Like we really need to export cars right ? WE are the market, not $2 hour Mexicans, Chinese, and Indians.

And killing exports WILL create US jobs, It makes operating overseas not economical, forces the companies to return to the US, creating US jobs. (also reduces their enormous shipping costs)

The American car producers have made their high margin cars in the US. Lower priced cars are assembled in Mexico to keep the prices down. Not everyone can buy a truck.

Americans who work in the import/export business will lose their jobs. No real jobs are gained. They are shifted and that is all.

 

[protectionist]

A 45 percent tariff on Chinese-made goods could drive up U.S. retail prices on those goods by an average of about 10 percent, Capital Economics has calculated. Consumers would find it hard to escape the price squeeze.

For Americans, Trump's tariffs on imports could be costly

FALSE! Businesses CANNOT raise rices above their market price.

Maybe you think a price comes from the business owners lucky number ? Could that be it ?

 

[protectionist]

Even without a broader conflict, tariffs can damage corporate America. Back in 2002, President George W. Bush imposed tariffs of up to 30 percent on imported steel. American steel producers took advantage of the tariffs to raise their own prices, thereby squeezing U.S. industrial companies that buy steel. The Consuming Industries Trade Action Coalition, representing steel buyers, has said the tariffs cost thousands of U.S. jobs.

That isn't what steel industry spokeman says in your own link from post # 133 >>

"That was an awful thing for us," says Bill Smith, president of Termax Corp. of Lake Zurich, Illinois, which makes fasteners for the auto industry. "We are pretty nervous here at Termax" that Trump will target Chinese steel with tariffs again.

Smith says Termax wouldn't be able to pass along the higher cost to its automaker customers — "They can just choose to use a different (foreign) manufacturer" — and would have to absorb the costs itself."

 

[protectionist]

The American car producers have made their high margin cars in the US. Lower priced cars are assembled in Mexico to keep the prices down. Not everyone can buy a truck.

Americans who work in the import/export business will lose their jobs. No real jobs are gained. They are shifted and that is all.

Not realistic, but nice try. Millions of American jobs will be gained, by the companies returning to the USA

 

[protectionist]

Many of the cars made in Mexico are low margin vehicles. If the tariffs erode the remaining profit and they cannot raise prices they will drop the product. That will hurt middle and low class consumers.

TPP would have lowered or eliminated tariffs on thousands of American goods and services. Trump walked away from that. Also is the US prepared to eliminate tariffs and other restrictions that certain foreign products face? A shipload of pizzas were stopped at the docks because they had a minute amount of sugar in them.

The US is prepared to IMPOSE tariffs, not eliminate them. Loss of jobs has gone on far too long. It will turn around now.

 

[protectionist]

A tariff is a tax.

Call it what you like. It is needed to bring US manufactures back to the US.

 

[protectionist]

Nonsense.

The only taxes the Rs will cut is for themselves and other 1%ers.

Unless you're very wealthy, your taxes are going up.

Dreaming out loud ? Let us know when you come up with a reason for your scare talk.

 

[protectionist]

Any change up or down in the profit margin from higher taxes has an effect, too. Which you are completely ignoring.

No I'm not. I stated previously, a change in profits too far down could drive the firm out of business, which merely shows it wasn't prepared TO BE in business in the first place. If you can't operate in the US, and pay Americans decent wages, then screw you. Do things correct to begin with, and you won't have to be crying later.

Those who can't afford to do things right IN THE USA, should do what we all do who can't afford to run a business here, GET A JOB!

 

[g5000]

Nope. Wrong.

Are you people even looking at the links I have been providing?

Donald Trump Warns of 35% Tariff For Companies That Move Abroad

Donald Trump uses Sunday morning tweetstorm to make policy

TRUMP, TARIFFS, TERRA, and TWEETS

Trump tweet gives hope to border tax boosters

Trump Could Make Good On Tariff Threats, Thanks To Existing Laws

So your answer to my question is "No, I have not read your links."

You haven't read your own links, either. What Trump stumped on was selective and entirely capricious punitive tariffs on whatever countries or corporations he was upset with at the moment. With the tariff amounts to vary country by country in accordance with the level of his pique at them.


Government by snit.



That has NOTHING to do with a BAT, which he quite plainly has said he is opposed to, and which I quoted him directly saying so.

You are making a fool of yourself in your own topic.

 

[g5000]

"Forcing them to return to the US"

Does that include what's listed in the link in my signature?

Go ahead cupcake. Explain why you believe those jobs should no be in the US.

[emoji849]

Why would I be explaining why "those jobs should no be in the US" ?, when I believe they SHOULD be in the US (which is why I support Trump's tariff positions)..

You are incredibly backward looking. You want to train our kids to do the jobs of yesterday. You want them making T-shirts instead of preparing for the jobs of tomorrow.

That's the central problem with protectionism. It's a huge drag on progress.