Break down of Sandy Hook shooting....

[2aguy]

6 minutes and 6 seonds before the police even knew there was a problem.......

There wouldn't have been a problem if Nancy Lanza wasn't armed like the Zombie Apocolypse was coming.

Except...she was murdered to get to her guns....no background checks, no gun registration, no magazine limit stopped her son....he committed murder, and then went on to committ more murder.....had she had just one pistol, he still would have been able to kill all those children........

 

[JoeB131]

Except...she was murdered to get to her guns....no background checks, no gun registration, no magazine limit stopped her son....he committed murder, and then went on to committ more murder.....had she had just one pistol, he still would have been able to kill all those children......

One pistol, it would have been much more likely a teacher would have been able to overpower him.

The point was, she collected 7 guns and thousands of rounds of ammo (which I know, to you gun nutters seems like no big deal) when she knew she had a dangerous person in her home, one she allowed to spend all day playing first person shooter games.

This is why most civilians should not have guns. Period.

 

[2aguy]

This is why most civilians should not have guns. Period.

Governments that commit mass murder agree with you Joe....just ask those student 43 student teachers in Mexico.....

 

[skookerasbil]

Joe.....I know what your problem is....you are terrified of people.....they scare you....you think that they can't control their emotions...but that is because you can't control yours and you project that onto others......since you can't actually control other people...you try to control what you can...and that is the tool they use...guns......but you will never be able to control that either since criminals don't care about your laws...you will never be happy.....but the people who die because you deny them the ability to defend themselves don't deserve to die because of you.....

Actually, guy, I really didn't care about guns one way or the other, until I saw how fucking scary you gun nuts are with your fantasies about all the people you want to shoot.

I'm not worried about the "Criminals'. Most gun deaths are suicides, domestic arguments and accidents.

Will we stop the career criminal from knocking over a liquor store? Nope.

Will we stop that domestic murder that started with an argument over who drank the last can of Milwaukee's Best? Yup.

Awwwww buckle up your chinstrap and don't be a fag. Time for New Years resolutions s0n..........the time is ripe.

 

[skookerasbil]

Except...she was murdered to get to her guns....no background checks, no gun registration, no magazine limit stopped her son....he committed murder, and then went on to committ more murder.....had she had just one pistol, he still would have been able to kill all those children......

One pistol, it would have been much more likely a teacher would have been able to overpower him.

The point was, she collected 7 guns and thousands of rounds of ammo (which I know, to you gun nutters seems like no big deal) when she knew she had a dangerous person in her home, one she allowed to spend all day playing first person shooter games.

This is why most civilians should not have guns. Period.

Move to China s0n..........you'd love it there. No worries..........nobody even dies there by accident. Go.......go..........go
Might as well........your sentiments play with about 148 people here in America s0n!!!

 

[JoeB131]

Governments that commit mass murder agree with you Joe....just ask those student 43 student teachers in Mexico.....

You mean the ones who were killed because a drug cartel using American Guns took them out?

Oh, BTW, Mexico has a "Right to bear Arms". so they aren't a gun control country, really.

 

[2aguy]

Governments that commit mass murder agree with you Joe....just ask those student 43 student teachers in Mexico.....

You mean the ones who were killed because a drug cartel using American Guns took them out?

Oh, BTW, Mexico has a "Right to bear Arms". so they aren't a gun control country, really.

American guns......given to them by obama and holder...to promote gun control in the United States....at the cost of hundreds of dead Mexican citizens....but you can't pass gun control in the United States if you don't generate dead victims....

 

[JoeB131]

American guns......given to them by obama and holder...to promote gun control in the United States....at the cost of hundreds of dead Mexican citizens....but you can't pass gun control in the United States if you don't generate dead victims....

Guy, this is where you guys just come off as nuts.

The guns in the so called "Fast and Furious" Probe only involved 2000 guns out of the 253,000 guns smuggled from the US into Mexico EVERY FUCKING YEAR. Of those, 710 were recovered, but the ones lost represented only .5% of the guns smuggled into Mexico that year. And yes, the Mexican government has been complaining about it.

MEXICO CITY 253 000 U.S. guns smuggled to Mexico annually study finds World McClatchy DC

6700 of the 51,000 gun dealers are concentrated in the four border states with Mexico. Come on, guy, we flood Mexico with guns and then wonder why we have so many other problems.

 

[2aguy]

Most of the guns in Mexico are smuggled in from Europe....the ones they can actually trace show up as from the U.S. because we have records of them....believe me, no gun dealer will stay in business selling guns to smuggling rings....

more anti gun lies.....

Where Drug Cartels Really Get Their Arms FrontPage Magazine

A diplomatic cable released by Wikileaks will disappoint them, as it shows that 90 percent of the heavy weapons used by the drug cartels come from Central America. The strength of the drug cartels is more attributable to the Mexican government’s inefficiencies than America’s gun laws or consumption of narcotics.

all you lefties love wikileaks...right?

The media constantly cites the dubious claim 90 percent of the guns used by the drug lords come from the United States. This statistic comes from a report by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. It is based on the fact that, of the 29,000 guns seized in 2007 and 2008, 6,000 were sent to the U.S. for tracing. Of these, 90 percent were indeed found to have come from the U.S. But there is much more behind this fuzzy statistic.

As Matt Allen, Special Agent of Immigration Customs and Enforcementexplained to FoxNews.com, “[N]ot every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market.” Of the guns sent to the ATF for tracing, a large amount could not be traced and therefore are not accounted for in the statistic. Guns known to be from domestic sources, like the Mexican police or military, and guns from foreign countries are not submitted.

The highly-respected STRATFOR intelligence company agrees that the statistic is incorrect. The group likewise explained that only 3,480 guns were traced back to the U.S., which equals 12 percent of the total arms seized by the Mexican authorities in 2008 and less than 48 percent of those sent for tracing.

“According to the figures presented by the GAO [Government Accountability Office], there is no evidence to support the assertion that 90 percent of the guns used by the Mexican cartels come from the United States—especially when not even 50 percent of those that were submitted for tracing were ultimately found to be of U.S. origin,” STRATFOR concluded.

 

[JoeB131]

Most of the guns in Mexico are smuggled in from Europe....the ones they can actually trace show up as from the U.S. because we have records of them....believe me, no gun dealer will stay in business selling guns to smuggling rings....

more anti gun lies.....

The ATF says you are wrong.

ATF 70 percent of guns found in Mexico come from US TheHill

In 2011, the ATF recovered and traced about 20,000 guns that were found in Mexico. About half of those – 10,514 – were manufactured in the U.S., and nearly 4,000 of the traced guns had been previously brought into the U.S. legally, according to the ATF’s numbers. About 3,600 of the guns found in 2011 were made outside of the U.S.

 

[2aguy]

Most of the guns in Mexico are smuggled in from Europe....the ones they can actually trace show up as from the U.S. because we have records of them....believe me, no gun dealer will stay in business selling guns to smuggling rings....

more anti gun lies.....

The ATF says you are wrong.

ATF 70 percent of guns found in Mexico come from US TheHill

In 2011, the ATF recovered and traced about 20,000 guns that were found in Mexico. About half of those – 10,514 – were manufactured in the U.S., and nearly 4,000 of the traced guns had been previously brought into the U.S. legally, according to the ATF’s numbers. About 3,600 of the guns found in 2011 were made outside of the U.S.

You do realize that American guns used by mexican cartels are weapons sold to the Mexican military...which sells them to the cartels...right.....? Which just points out...when the people are disarmed, the monsters will still get guns because guns give them power....so any stupid anti gun ideas only work for the good guys who obey the laws.....

 

[2aguy]

The police get weapons to the cartels as well...

Legal U.S. gun sales to Mexico arming cartels - CBS News

Selling weapons to Mexico - where cartel violence is out of control - is controversial because so many guns fall into the wrong hands due to incompetence and corruption. The Mexican military recently reported nearly 9,000 police weapons "missing."

Yet the U.S. has approved the sale of more guns to Mexico in recent years than ever before through a program called "direct commercial sales." It's a program that some say is worse than the highly-criticized "Fast and Furious" gunrunning scandal, where U.S. agents allowed thousands of weapons to pass from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels.

CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson discovered that the official tracking all those guns sold through "direct commercial sales" leaves something to be desired.

One weapon - an AR-15-type semi-automatic rifle - tells the story. In 2006, this same kind of rifle - tracked by serial number - is legally sold by a U.S. manufacturer to the Mexican military.

Three years later - it's found in a criminal stash in a region wracked by Mexican drug cartel violence.

That prompted a "sensitive" cable, uncovered by WikiLeaks, dated June 4, 2009, in which the U.S. State Department asked Mexico "how the AR-15" - meant only for the military or police - was "diverted" into criminal hands.

That is how obama and holder are getting new guns into the hands of cartels....so useful idiots in America can say that drug cartels are getting American guns...and that we are the problem...


the problem in Mexico is a corrupt government....which is why people need to keep and bear arms.....

 

[JoeB131]

You do realize that American guns used by mexican cartels are weapons sold to the Mexican military...which sells them to the cartels...right.....? Which just points out...when the people are disarmed, the monsters will still get guns because guns give them power....so any stupid anti gun ideas only work for the good guys who obey the laws....

Actually, vast majority of Cartel Guns are bought by straw buyers in the US and smuggled across the border- at least according to the Second Amendment haters at the ATF.

 

[JoeB131]

The police get weapons to the cartels as well...

Yes, 9000 weapons missing from the military compared to 240,000 guns that walk across the border every year.

I think the latter is a bigger problem.

 

[2aguy]

Joe....your numbers are wrong...again....you need to stop reading anti gun nut propaganda....

Mexico s Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth Stratfor

As we discussed in a previous analysis, the 90 percent number was derived from a June 2009 U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) report to Congress on U.S. efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico (see external link).

According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.

This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing. In fact, the 3,480 guns positively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States.

The remaining 22,800 firearms seized by Mexican authorities in 2008 were not traced for a variety of reasons. In addition to factors such as bureaucratic barriers and negligence, many of the weapons seized by Mexican authorities either do not bear serial numbers or have had their serial numbers altered or obliterated. It is also important to understand that the Mexican authorities simply don't bother to submit some classes of weapons to the ATF for tracing. Such weapons include firearms they identify as coming from their own military or police forces, or guns that they can trace back themselves as being sold through the Mexican Defense Department's Arms and Ammunition Marketing Division (UCAM). Likewise, they do not ask ATF to trace military ordnance from third countries like the South Korean fragmentation grenades commonly used in cartel attacks.

Of course, some or even many of the 22,800 firearms the Mexicans did not submit to ATF for tracing may have originated in the United States. But according to the figures presented by the GAO, there is no evidence to support the assertion that 90 percent of the guns used by the Mexican cartels come from the United States — especially when not even 50 percent of those that were submitted for tracing were ultimately found to be of U.S. origin.

**************************

The Myth of 90 Percent Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S. Fox News

So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:

-- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.

-- Russian crime organizations. Interpol says Russian Mafia groups such as Poldolskaya and Moscow-based Solntsevskaya are actively trafficking drugs and arms in Mexico.

- South America. During the late 1990s, the Revolutionary Armed Forces ofColombia (FARC) established a clandestine arms smuggling and drug trafficking partnership with the Tijuana cartel, according to the Federal Research Division report from the Library of Congress.

-- Asia. According to a 2006 Amnesty International Report, China has provided arms to countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Chinese assault weapons and Korean explosives have been recovered in Mexico.

-- The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.

-- Guatemala. U.S. intelligence agencies say traffickers move immigrants, stolen cars, guns and drugs, including most of America's cocaine, along the porous Mexican-Guatemalan border. On March 27, La Hora, a Guatemalan newspaper, reported that police seized 500 grenades and a load of AK-47s on the border. Police say the cache was transported by a Mexican drug cartel operating out of Ixcan, a border town.

'These Don't Come From El Paso'

Ed Head, a firearms instructor in Arizona who spent 24 years with the U.S. Border Patrol, recently displayed an array of weapons considered "assault rifles" that are similar to those recovered in Mexico, but are unavailable for sale in the U.S.

"These kinds of guns -- the auto versions of these guns -- they are not coming from El Paso," he said. "They are coming from other sources. They are brought in from Guatemala. They are brought in from places like China. They are being diverted from the military. But you don't get these guns from the U.S."

Some guns, he said, "are legitimately shipped to the government of Mexico, by Colt, for example, in the United States. They are approved by the U.S. government for use by the Mexican military service. The guns end up in Mexico that way -- the fully auto versions -- they are not smuggled in across the river."

Many of the fully automatic weapons that have been seized in Mexico cannot be found in the U.S., but they are not uncommon in the Third World.

The Mexican government said it has seized 2,239 grenades in the last two years -- but those grenades and the rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) are unavailable in U.S. gun shops. The ones used in an attack on the U.S. Consulate inMonterrey in October and a TV station in January were made in South Korea. Almost 70 similar grenades were seized in February in the bottom of a truck entering Mexico from Guatemala.

"Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semi-automatic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California," according to a report in the Los Angeles Times.

Boatloads of Weapons

So why would the Mexican drug cartels, which last year grossed between $17 billion and $38 billion, bother buying single-shot rifles, and force thousands of unknown "straw" buyers in the U.S. through a government background check, when they can buy boatloads of fully automatic M-16s and assault rifles from China, Israel or South Africa?

Alberto Islas, a security consultant who advises the Mexican government, says the drug cartels are using the Guatemalan border to move black market weapons. Some are left over from the Central American wars the United States helped fight; others, like the grenades and launchers, are South Korean, Israeli and Spanish. Some were legally supplied to the Mexican government; others were sold by corrupt military officers or officials.

The exaggeration of United States "responsibility" for the lawlessness in Mexico extends even beyond the "90-percent" falsehood -- and some Second Amendment activists believe it's designed to promote more restrictive gun-control laws in the U.S.






Read more: Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth | Stratfor
Follow us: @stratfor on Twitter | Stratfor on Facebook

 

[JoeB131]

Joe....your numbers are wrong...again....you need to stop reading anti gun nut propaganda....

no, I'm really not. But I know you gun nuts need to believe you have no responsiblity for the carnage you cause.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You know that the truth means nothing to him, right?

 

[Marianne]

6 minutes and 6 seonds before the police even knew there was a problem.......

Which is why the answer is trained, armed security at all public buildings when they are open.

You mean like in a police state?

Hate to tell you this but schools in New Haven CT already have security guards and metal detectors. I don't think they are armed but I've never thought to look. It's not a far stretch and we certainly don't live in a police state. Let me give you an example of an average New Haven School day. School goes into lock down because an armed robbery suspect is in the area. A few years back on was tackled right outside my daughters classroom. There were shot fired near my Nephews school about two or three years ago. Again School went into lockdown. Mind you Sandy Hook isn't where you'd expect any of this type of stuff to go on. It's a rural community(for Connecticut). What it does show is that this crap can happen anywhere. So preparing for the worst is probably a good thing. If somebody had had a gun they might have been able to kill Lanza before he ever got to the classrooms.

As far as Adam Lanza, we need to improve mental health care because obviously he was disturbed and fell through the cracks.

 

[JoeB131]

As far as Adam Lanza, we need to improve mental health care because obviously he was disturbed and fell through the cracks.

Well, it wasn't just that he was disturbed.

It was that he was disturbed, his mother had enough guns to fight off the zombie apocalypse, and she took him to ranges to show him how to shoot.

 

[Marianne]

As far as Adam Lanza, we need to improve mental health care because obviously he was disturbed and fell through the cracks.

Well, it wasn't just that he was disturbed.

It was that he was disturbed, his mother had enough guns to fight off the zombie apocalypse, and she took him to ranges to show him how to shoot.

I agree that Lanza's mother was just as responsible as Lanza himself. He was a hot mess and needed psychiatric care, she never should have exposed him to guns in the first place. Even if Lanza's mother had been pro active with his mental health care she still couldn't have done much because once a person turns 18 that person can refuse treatment. At that point Mrs Lanza should have locked up those guns. Would it have stopped her son from going off? Who knows. But it would have left him to buy his own guns or seek other ways to get them. Maybe he wouldn't have been able to do the shooting.
Maybe the only way to stop him would have been to have armed guards at the school to kill him before he got in.

Certainly better mental health care is needed. We also need to find ways to make obviously disturbed adults get mental health care without trampling on the constitutional rights of the individual. All his neighbors knew he had issues, this should have been preventable.