BREAKING: Mass school shooting multiple victims

[TemplarKormac]

They fear the punishment

Here's the logic you fail to understand.

Most criminals commit the crime because they don't fear the punishment.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

They fear the punishment

Here's the logic you fail to understand.

Most criminals commit the crime because they don't fear the punishment.

More accurately, most "criminals" commit crimes because the benefits outweigh the possible punishments.

This will always be true.

 

[RodISHI]

The shooters bud's page before it was changed.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Laws do not prevent crime, crimes are punished and that is what keeps society relatively safe.

Okay. Laws do not prevent crime, ergo gun control laws do not stop gun violence from happening. Therefore gun control laws, and gun free zones are pointless. If laws are pointless, it doesn't matter how many times someone is punished.

Thanks for making my case.

By that logic, laws against murder are pointless too. After all, people still commit murder, even though it's illegal.

It's not logic, it's a talking point only stupid people or liars echo. Laws do not stop crime, they punish those who commit crimes!

The opinion expressed by TK is too foolish to even offer a rebuttal. People obey the laws for two reasons:

• They believe it is the right thing to do
• They fear the punishment

I would say they dont fear the punishment in an amount equal to or more than the reward they feel they would receive by breaking the law.

I would add that they temporarily lose the ability to reason in some instances due to emotional trauma.

I'm not sure who you mean when you wrote "they don't fear the punishment...". Normal Americans, and people in general obey laws because it is the right thing to do. In mass murders, the killer is abnormal.

Others flout the law, usually when they feel they can get away with it or the subculture in which they reside is antisocial and crime is acceptable to their peers.

 

[Asclepias]

They fear the punishment

Here's the logic you fail to understand.

Most criminals commit the crime because they don't fear the punishment.

Not really. If that was true they wouldnt attempt to avoid the punishment. They feel the possible results are worth the risk.

 

[Asclepias]

Laws do not prevent crime, crimes are punished and that is what keeps society relatively safe.

Okay. Laws do not prevent crime, ergo gun control laws do not stop gun violence from happening. Therefore gun control laws, and gun free zones are pointless. If laws are pointless, it doesn't matter how many times someone is punished.

Thanks for making my case.

By that logic, laws against murder are pointless too. After all, people still commit murder, even though it's illegal.

It's not logic, it's a talking point only stupid people or liars echo. Laws do not stop crime, they punish those who commit crimes!

The opinion expressed by TK is too foolish to even offer a rebuttal. People obey the laws for two reasons:

• They believe it is the right thing to do
• They fear the punishment

I would say they dont fear the punishment in an amount equal to or more than the reward they feel they would receive by breaking the law.

I would add that they temporarily lose the ability to reason in some instances due to emotional trauma.

I'm not sure who you mean when you wrote "they don't fear the punishment...". Normal Americans, and people in general obey laws because it is the right thing to do. In mass murders, the killer is abnormal.

Others flout the law, usually when they feel they can get away with it or the subculture in which they reside is antisocial and crime is acceptable to their peers.

"They" being the criminals. Normal is subjective. You cant show me a normal person.

 

[TemplarKormac]

They fear the punishment

Here's the logic you fail to understand.

Most criminals commit the crime because they don't fear the punishment.

More accurately, most "criminals" commit crimes because the benefits outweigh the possible punishments.

This will always be true.

I agree.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Normal Americans, and people in general obey laws because it is the right thing to do. In mass murders, the killer is abnormal.

Anyone who willfully chooses the wrong thing to do over the right one can be considered "abnormal" using your logic.

 

[westwall]

Doesn't it ever occur to you guys, that someone willing to be this extreme is likely to come up with a gun no matter what the laws are ?
There are over 300 million guns in private hands in the U.S. How on earth could you possibly contain those kind of #'s ?

perhaps. but don't you think we should make it more difficult for them rather than say "go get 'em, sonny".

and for the record, I don't hate guns. my son and husband both shoot. I just think we need to be smarter in keeping them away from the nutcases and criminals. don't you?

You can create all the laws you like, but if a person wants a gun they'll be able to get one in other ways.
The rules at this college was no guns, yet a mass shooting has now occurred.

Society can make laws limiting speed on roadways, if a person wants to speed they'll do so;
You can put locks on all your doors and windows, they won't keep out a burglar intent on breaking and entering and stealing; rapists rape, molesters molest and drunks still drive.

Why do we have laws?

Yes indeed. Why do we have laws that make it easier for deranged people to commit mass murder? Want to shoot a lot of defencless people? Need the time to do it? Target a school. Gun Free Zones and far enough away from most places that police response time is long.

i have a better idea. how about we make sure that the loons and people with criminal histories can't get guns. we are the only civilized country that has mass shootings every week and more guns per capita than any other "civilized" country.

so tell us how more guns would be better. i'm listening.

You'll get no argument from me on that. The only issue is how do we prevent normal folks from having their guns taken?

 

[Derideo_Te]

I pray for the injured.

Finally!

The first post to consider the victims, nearly 80 pusts, thus far, of inconsiderate assholes who only think of their right, and not the rights of others.

Thank you Brain, for you humanity; to bad it is a rare characteristic and one totally absent by those who posted on the first 8 pages.

Mea Culpa!

Thank you for pointing just how callous we have become to the endless slaughter.

That says volumes about us and our acceptance of a society where gun fetishism prevents us from taking the actions needed to stop this carnage.

Exactly HOW would you stop it?

When was the last time that crime rates declined significantly and what was happening at that time?

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Australia had a mass shooting, got rid of the guns and hasn't had one since.

The bottom line is, here in America most of us are willing to put up with these occasional tragedies, but we're not willing to give up our 2nd Amendment rights.
There will be more and more laws and restrictions, but a roundup is off the table.

Glad you have made that decision for everyone. The dead have no constituency.

Said it once, said it a hundred times; what has to happen is that a powerful rightwing lawmaker, unfortunately, will have to lose a child in one of these senseless acts to awaken the rest of the nation to the needless slaughter.

And then what ? Again, you can have all the restrictions for new purchases you want, but that won't put a dent in the hundreds of millions of guns already out among the general population.

 

[JGalt]

Australia had a mass shooting, got rid of the guns and hasn't had one since.

The bottom line is, here in America most of us are willing to put up with these occasional tragedies, but we're not willing to give up our 2nd Amendment rights.
There will be more and more laws and restrictions, but a roundup is off the table.

Glad you have made that decision for everyone. The dead have no constituency.

Said it once, said it a hundred times; what has to happen is that a powerful rightwing lawmaker, unfortunately, will have to lose a child in one of these senseless acts to awaken the rest of the nation to the needless slaughter.

And then what ? Again, you can have all the restrictions for new purchases you want, but that won't put a dent in the hundreds of millions of guns already out among the general population.

True. Chicago has the most stringent gun laws in the country and a mayor who was once Obama's Attorney General. Yet the place is a war zone. Women, children, even babies are shot and murdered there every day. Most all of the guns being carried on the street were not purchased legally, and most of the people who possess them aren't even legally able to own a firearm. They were bought from other criminals, stolen, or taken from family members.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The Gun isn't a problem at all, period.

The Problem is that the US has tolerated a perverse species of reasoning that openly rejects God, God's law, and the objective reason that recognizes such.

Bullshit. The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion and that also means freedom from religion.

The problem is a lack of willingness on the part of politicians to try and regulate the out-of-control weapons traffic in this supposedly enlightened society.

 

[Votto]

Obama made absolutely no substantive comment in his remarks. He simply stated how "terrible" and "routine" was the incident.

He has a vagina where his balls should be.

An American-born President would tell this nation to get it's shit together, stop killing each other, and cut out the race-baiting bullshit.

He's not an enforcer of anything. He's a fucking enabler.

I don't understand why he just does not write an Executive Order to take our guns away. It's not like the GOP will oppose him. Sure, they will hold their breath and turn purple like they always do, but that would be the extent of it.

 

[Votto]

The Gun isn't a problem at all, period.

The Problem is that the US has tolerated a perverse species of reasoning that openly rejects God, God's law, and the objective reason that recognizes such.

Bullshit. The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion and that also means freedom from religion.

The problem is a lack of willingness on the part of politicians to try and regulate the out-of-control weapons traffic in this supposedly enlightened society.

What law would have saved those people?

In fact, is there a law to prevent this from happening?

 

[Esmeralda]

So, another day, another shooting....

America the Beatiful

 

[Esmeralda]

Your NRA/GOP perfect world.

We're talking oregon here.

Southern Oregon is conservative, Republican, Christian, GOP, NRA. You don't know the state. BTW, one capitalizes the name of a state: it's a proper noun.

 

[JoeB131]

You'll get no argument from me on that. The only issue is how do we prevent normal folks from having their guns taken?

Why should that be a goal? frankly, most gun homicides and suicides are from "normal folks" who just happened to have one really bad day and snapped.

The thing is, when you declare gun ownership a "right", you pretty much open the door to these kinds of things, because instead of someone proving why he needs a gun, the onus becomes, "Why shouldn't I have a gun?"

Now I think what we are goign to find out about Mercer is that 1) Everyone in his life knew he was nuts and 2) he was able to acquire his guns recently with no questions asked.

Let's put the 300 million guns to the side for the moment. Most of these mass shooters use guns they acquired recently. How about raising the bar on NEW guns.

 

[JoeB131]

And then what ? Again, you can have all the restrictions for new purchases you want, but that won't put a dent in the hundreds of millions of guns already out among the general population.

true, but the vast majority of those guns are sitting in someone's closet and probably don't even work, so I'm less worried about those.

These mass shooting incidents always seem to involve someone who RECENTLY purchased a gun right after the voices in their heads told them to. How about we start there?

 

[JoeB131]

rue. Chicago has the most stringent gun laws in the country and a mayor who was once Obama's Attorney General. Yet the place is a war zone. Women, children, even babies are shot and murdered there every day. Most all of the guns being carried on the street were not purchased legally, and most of the people who possess them aren't even legally able to own a firearm. They were bought from other criminals, stolen, or taken from family members.

Guy, a city having stringent gun laws when the surburbs around it are marketting to the gang-bangers is not a strict gun law.

Also, Rahm was not attorney general, he was chief of staff.