Brexit busted.

[frigidweirdo]

Problem is they've been trying to counter the Brexit people, rather than just state the case simply.

Problem is that they've gone to weird lengths to scare us all. Including saying that WWIII might break out, or a recent one, that 'Western political civilisation' will end !!!

Why scare us with such rot, UNLESS, the anti-Brexit case was truly a very weak one ??

Perhaps people are fed up with being treated like idiots, being bullied by scare tactics into thinking as the anti-Brexit mob want us to think. We've had enough of such shabbiness, such disreputability ... this no doubt also including the apparent latest Budget threat .. ??

This made me laugh.

Yes, some on the stay campaign have said stuff that you might deem to be scary.

However the Brexit people have been talking up the joys and wonder of leaving the EU, no doubt they've said every person in the UK will get to ride unicorns if the UK leaves.
But then they've gone really negative about immigration, like Turkish immigrants, remember this?

Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals

"
Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals"

"according to research from the think tank Migration Watch. "

MigrationWatch UK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"MigrationWatch UK is an immigration and asylum research organisation and think-tank, which describes itself as independent and non-political, but which has been characterised by some commentators and academics as a right-wing pressure group. It was founded and is chaired by Lord Green of Deddington,"

He's a member of Christian Solidarity Worldwide which is a Christian Human Rights group that tries to stop the persecution of Christians.

Number of UK Muslims exceeds three million for first time

"he is in reality a very controversial participant in the most sensitive political issue of the moment,"

This guy isn't independent by any means. And saying 7 million Turks will be in the UK, which is based on NOTHING, then it's scaremongering too. But that scaremongering you like, right? Or am I wrong?


The reality is, this whole campaign has just been very irritating with people not stating the facts so that people can see them.

You say "people are fed up with being treated like idiots", come on, you're loving being treated like idiots from the Brexit people.

Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals

I just picked the first article on the Express, knowing I'd get what I'm looking for.

"
Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals"

So, what could this be all about? The coastguard is saying that the EU is encouraging migrants to flock to the EU. How? By letting them come, by offering shelter and so on? By going and telling these people to move to the EU?

Nope

"But international laws state that European naval vessels must stay at least 12 nautical miles from the shire of the North African country."

Ah, they're saying the EU is encouraging migrants to move to the EU by following INTERNATIONAL LAW. I mean, fucking hell, you'd have to be really stupid to think the mirror is correct when it says the EU is encouraging immigration to the EU (after saying it's harder to get from Turkey to Greece earlier in the article) by following international law and not going into other sovereign countries.

Now, the EU's been accused by you of being this big bully that says stuff and this is proof the UK should leave. Now, the Brexit people are claiming the coastguard should be invading foreign waters in order to stop this.... I'm sorry, but, wtf?

67% of those who voted, said the EU shot itself in the foot by not invading other countries.

I think I could go on all day of examples where the Mirror, and Brexit people, are treating people like idiots, and you people are lapping it up.

And your point being what exactly ?

Well, if you read it, you should see the point.

The point is basically that scaremongering happens on both sides, so to say that you hate this scaremongering when you probably support that of your own side, is quite simply not right.

The point is this is just your opinion, and it is worth as much as an Irish 9 punt coin. I gave valid reasons backed with facts and all you have is the Chancellor threatening to increase taxes. When the word was earlier this year that the EU was looking at forcing taxes to rise anyway.

I've backed up my point with sources at times. The whole "11 million Turks will end up in the UK" is scaremongering, for example.

The Chancellor increasing taxes is almost certainly not a threat, but reality.

Like I've said, the UK has lost 100 billion from yearly trade with the EU, just in the last 2 weeks alone, because the pound has dropped. No one is saying trade will be better off with Brexit, NO ONE, not even the Brexit people. If you lose trade, if the pound is weaker, how can the chancellor say anything other than he'll have to spend less and raise taxes? I mean, that's just simple knowledge.

However the Brexit people shout "no true" for anything they don't like. So, hardly surprising they've done it again.

 

[frigidweirdo]

This made me laugh.

Yes, some on the stay campaign have said stuff that you might deem to be scary.

However the Brexit people have been talking up the joys and wonder of leaving the EU, no doubt they've said every person in the UK will get to ride unicorns if the UK leaves.
But then they've gone really negative about immigration, like Turkish immigrants, remember this?

Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals

"
Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals"

"according to research from the think tank Migration Watch. "

MigrationWatch UK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"MigrationWatch UK is an immigration and asylum research organisation and think-tank, which describes itself as independent and non-political, but which has been characterised by some commentators and academics as a right-wing pressure group. It was founded and is chaired by Lord Green of Deddington,"

He's a member of Christian Solidarity Worldwide which is a Christian Human Rights group that tries to stop the persecution of Christians.

Number of UK Muslims exceeds three million for first time

"he is in reality a very controversial participant in the most sensitive political issue of the moment,"

This guy isn't independent by any means. And saying 7 million Turks will be in the UK, which is based on NOTHING, then it's scaremongering too. But that scaremongering you like, right? Or am I wrong?


The reality is, this whole campaign has just been very irritating with people not stating the facts so that people can see them.

You say "people are fed up with being treated like idiots", come on, you're loving being treated like idiots from the Brexit people.

Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals

I just picked the first article on the Express, knowing I'd get what I'm looking for.

"
Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals"

So, what could this be all about? The coastguard is saying that the EU is encouraging migrants to flock to the EU. How? By letting them come, by offering shelter and so on? By going and telling these people to move to the EU?

Nope

"But international laws state that European naval vessels must stay at least 12 nautical miles from the shire of the North African country."

Ah, they're saying the EU is encouraging migrants to move to the EU by following INTERNATIONAL LAW. I mean, fucking hell, you'd have to be really stupid to think the mirror is correct when it says the EU is encouraging immigration to the EU (after saying it's harder to get from Turkey to Greece earlier in the article) by following international law and not going into other sovereign countries.

Now, the EU's been accused by you of being this big bully that says stuff and this is proof the UK should leave. Now, the Brexit people are claiming the coastguard should be invading foreign waters in order to stop this.... I'm sorry, but, wtf?

67% of those who voted, said the EU shot itself in the foot by not invading other countries.

I think I could go on all day of examples where the Mirror, and Brexit people, are treating people like idiots, and you people are lapping it up.

And your point being what exactly ?

Well, if you read it, you should see the point.

The point is basically that scaremongering happens on both sides, so to say that you hate this scaremongering when you probably support that of your own side, is quite simply not right.

Who, on the Brexit side, has claimed 'the end of Western political civilisation' if we remain within the EU ??

The 'Remain' side has basically gone berserk. Out of sheer panic, no doubt ... because, on their side, consolidation of centralised power is ALL that matters. They're no doubt unused to failure, preferring to keep people under their bureaucratic thumbs, instead.

... aww, diddums ...

No, the Brexit people haven't claimed the end of anything.

However what they have claimed, a lot of it is very positive, like "leave the EU and it'll all be roses", just like Helmut Kohl did in 1990, and he was wrong to say what he said in 1990.

If the UK leave, it's not going to be a positive experience.

The Brexit side have tried their hardest to keep away from any truths out there. The Express is a perfect example, as I've shown you various times.

This is true but the English have now been Americanized enough to not care about reality but only about their feel good factor.

Well, this has probably always been the case. The East Germans fell for this in 1990, they weren't Americanized at all.

Helmut Kohl told the Germans that reunification would be sweet smelling flowers, the SPD told them it would be a hard road, they voted for Kohl because this is what they wanted to hear, they got what the SPD had to say, but weren't prepared for it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Polls say it's OUT.

Bookies say it's IN.

I say so long as Cameron is IN and Johnson is OUT Britain is screwed. Submissively, it is true, but well and truly screwed.

I'd say Johnson is probably worse than Cameron. He's a funny dude, he's likable, but is he going to think about things properly?

He plays a character for the camera's that makes him out to be a happy go lucky bumbling fool, put him in charge and watch him tell Brussels NO NO NO

Oh, and telling Brussels "NO NO NO" will do what exactly?

A lot more than giving in, as this is what Maggie did and won every time. She gave them a spoonful of sugar and they swallowed the nasty medicine

What, like campaigning for the UK to stay in the EU?

Basically you're talking about being tough. A leader should be able to walk into the EU and use Britain's power and influence for the good of the country, however just saying "no, no, no" isn't the answer at all, you have to be diplomatic about it, get people on your side.

 

[frigidweirdo]

No question BREXIT would be temporarily very difficult for Britain.

But once Germany opts out - and it won't take long to follow - the whole picture changes.

Then there's the positive side:

Scotland will likely vote to break away and Hadrian's wall can be restored with appropriate toll booths and a proper kill zone.

You think Germany will opt out? Not a chance. They EU will stay together and become more of an EU superpower than every before. You're dreaming if you think the Germans will leave.

Do you honestly think so when the money starts to dry up and the other member states want their handouts. France and Germany have their reason/excuse to leave now in the UK's impending exit

You haven't made a case at all, it feels like I'm reading the Express.

Germany and France CONTROL the EU, why would they want out? It's like saying that if Scotland left the British Union that England would want to leave too. Er.... Come off it. You're not making arguments, you're throwing soundbites that aren't backed up with anything at me.

 

[frigidweirdo]

jo cox has died.

Jo Cox MP dead after shooting attack - BBC News

You are giving them too many facts and we all know that "facts" are just elitist tricks to scare us into doing what is best for us.

We are getting no facts just conjecture and fantasies. Were are the facts backed with hard evidence that we can all see. Like the saving we can expect if we bring in migrant welfare reforms, migrant education reforms and migrant health care reforms. The figures are available for these three aspects and the evidence of savings is overwhelming.

I showed you facts.

The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks because the forecast has been the UK will vote leave. The Euro has dropped from 0.79 to 0.77. If it drops to 0.7, which there is every chance it will do, then the UK will lose 500 billion or more. And save 11 billion, which everyone thinks is a great saving.

This doesn't account for the unknown loss of trade.

However, in 2004 when new countries joined, the UK increased trade with some of those new countries by 200% in the space of 2 years. Imagine losing 1% of trade could cost the UK 500 billion pounds a year, this is very conceivable, in fact losing more than this is possible.

Outside of the EU, the UK has several times as many countries to trade with, as it currently has within the EU. That we'll somehow fail to 'make our way in the real world' if we leave the EU is, and must surely be, an entirely bogus argument.

And this assumes that all trade will 'cease' with EU countries, in the event of our exit. Of course, this will not happen. Happily, not only will it not happen, but we will have whatever choices to trade as we make for ourselves ... and every country we DO trade with, will know that .. and, if they want our trade, will have to take that into account.

As for market fluctuations and falls, the stock market hates uncertainty. It reacts negatively to it. That's all you're really describing .. a stock market not liking a lack of full accountability of what trading is done, and where. Just that.

When all this settles down and the true picture emerges, I'm thoroughly confident that the market's 'mood' will fundamentally change.

Yes, the UK does trade outside of the EU, and this makes up 50% of its trade right now. However there isn't an infinite supply of trade in the world. If the UK lost a lot of the EU trade, will it be able to make this up elsewhere? Doubtful.

I didn't say the UK would fail to make its way outside of the EU. I said it would lose a lot of money, firstly from the pound being devalued, second from a loss of trade, thirdly from companies choosing to stay in the EU and therefore leaving the UK. All in all the UK is going to be much poorer.

I didn't say all trade with the EU would cease, I've merely presented the scenario of the pound devaluing and the amount of money that would cost, plus a loss of trade of a few percentage points. No one knows how much the UK could lose, just that it will almost certainly lose some trade because of it.

Yes, markets rise and fall. That's not the point here. The point is that uncertainty leads to a drop in the pound. This uncertainty will last for a few years at the very least. If the UK is losing 500 billion a year for 2 years, that's going to have a MASSIVE impact on the UK economy. If more is lost, then what?

Trying to pass these off, as you're doing, as nothing, is rather ridiculous. These are the facts, you should know them, and you should be prepared for the economy to go downhill, higher unemployment, a weaker pound, and basically people being worse off.

People who go "we pay the EU loads of money, we'll save 11 billion a year" are living in some kind of fantasy world. No estimates out there show the UK saving money out of leaving, in fact, it's quite the opposite.

The £ has already rallied and the stock market is buoyant on the thought of it being a leave vote. proving you and the remain camp incompetents and unable to see what is really happening

FTSE 100 interactive chart - London Stock Exchange

Buoyed huh?

1 month ago, 6,167
3 months ago 6,201
6 months ago, 6,102
1 year ago 6,680
Today 5,966


I'm sorry, but buoyed when it's below 6,000 doesn't seem to be the case, basically, you're making stuff up, AGAIN.

Why do you, and the Brexit people, need to make stuff up? Oh, that's right, because you don't have anything.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

You are giving them too many facts and we all know that "facts" are just elitist tricks to scare us into doing what is best for us.

We are getting no facts just conjecture and fantasies. Were are the facts backed with hard evidence that we can all see. Like the saving we can expect if we bring in migrant welfare reforms, migrant education reforms and migrant health care reforms. The figures are available for these three aspects and the evidence of savings is overwhelming.

I showed you facts.

The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks because the forecast has been the UK will vote leave. The Euro has dropped from 0.79 to 0.77. If it drops to 0.7, which there is every chance it will do, then the UK will lose 500 billion or more. And save 11 billion, which everyone thinks is a great saving.

This doesn't account for the unknown loss of trade.

However, in 2004 when new countries joined, the UK increased trade with some of those new countries by 200% in the space of 2 years. Imagine losing 1% of trade could cost the UK 500 billion pounds a year, this is very conceivable, in fact losing more than this is possible.

WRONG as that would have happened anyway due to seasonal influences. How will the UK lose when we are not in the Euro, and the £ is going up. If you mean on spending power the more the Euro goes down the more we get for our £.
As I keep telling you those countries will still be trading as they need the goods and the EU cant provide them. So what will we lose again when the EU is struggling with mountains of waste because they have no buyers

Not wrong, you're talking rubbish.

The pound has clearly dropped because of the polls about leaving being ahead.

This is different the natural flow of currency which will go up and down. However the leave being ahead is sending it lower that it would be.

The pound is NOT GOING UP, stop making stuff up.

I find it ridiculous that there are people like you who will be voting to exit the EU when you have no idea of the issues, you want to believe what you want to believe and you'll shamelessly make up anything to get that view.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Osbourne's come out and said he'd have to slash the budget and increase taxes if the UK leaves. That should feel good for the foreign tourists.

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

And that 700 billion loss is from what, if it is showing because we leave then it must also show if we stay. Or he is cooking the books and will be caught out.

It is based on hocus pocus like if the sun shines at midnight on the autumn equinox then the UK economy will take a nose dive

It's what" It's 700 billion loss on trade.

How is this hocus pocus? I've shown you the FACTS and you've just plainly ignored them. The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks already, this is fact. I notice you haven't even mentioned this.

Because there are no facts just conjecture, what trade is to be affected causing a loss of 700billion a week. Name one commodity that will cease to be sold to Europe and cost the UK money.


As I said hocus pocus and smoke with no actual evidence to support the claim. Services have clauses in the contracts that make the service provided the intellectual property of the provider, so they will not hand that over for free, and will charge say 5 years of the contract price to release it. Trade agreements will be for a certain term and again will have clauses protecting both parties. So really it will mean an initial increase in funds, followed by a small period of uncertainty and finally new outlets found and new markets

Yeah, you just call FACTS hocus pocus because you don't want to believe.

You mind isn't open. Drummond at least listens and makes an argument back, you're just listening in some fantasy world.

 

[Drummond]

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

You are giving them too many facts and we all know that "facts" are just elitist tricks to scare us into doing what is best for us.

We are getting no facts just conjecture and fantasies. Were are the facts backed with hard evidence that we can all see. Like the saving we can expect if we bring in migrant welfare reforms, migrant education reforms and migrant health care reforms. The figures are available for these three aspects and the evidence of savings is overwhelming.

I showed you facts.

The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks because the forecast has been the UK will vote leave. The Euro has dropped from 0.79 to 0.77. If it drops to 0.7, which there is every chance it will do, then the UK will lose 500 billion or more. And save 11 billion, which everyone thinks is a great saving.

This doesn't account for the unknown loss of trade.

However, in 2004 when new countries joined, the UK increased trade with some of those new countries by 200% in the space of 2 years. Imagine losing 1% of trade could cost the UK 500 billion pounds a year, this is very conceivable, in fact losing more than this is possible.

WRONG as that would have happened anyway due to seasonal influences. How will the UK lose when we are not in the Euro, and the £ is going up. If you mean on spending power the more the Euro goes down the more we get for our £.
As I keep telling you those countries will still be trading as they need the goods and the EU cant provide them. So what will we lose again when the EU is struggling with mountains of waste because they have no buyers

Not wrong, you're talking rubbish.

The pound has clearly dropped because of the polls about leaving being ahead.

This is different the natural flow of currency which will go up and down. However the leave being ahead is sending it lower that it would be.

The pound is NOT GOING UP, stop making stuff up.

I find it ridiculous that there are people like you who will be voting to exit the EU when you have no idea of the issues, you want to believe what you want to believe and you'll shamelessly make up anything to get that view.

Trying to score points off of any dips in the market is disingenuous. The stock market sees a successful Brexit as a move towards uncertainty. The market absolutely hates uncertainty and reacts against it.

'Uncertainty' comes from a lack of foresight as to what the future will bring. The current dips say nothing for what ACTUAL future we can look forward to ... only a fear from a lack of complete rock-solid certainty, in their eyes, as to what it will definitely be. A good word to describe what's happening would be 'jitters'.

If the EU is such a good guarantee of our future ... tell me, how pleased were world markets to see the unfolding Greek financial crisis .. and its effect on the EU .. just not too long ago ? Greece has a small economy, yet, how much of a financial disturbance did THEY manage to cause ?

I suggest to you that the EU is a house of cards just waiting to come tumbling down. The sooner we're shot of them, the better.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You are giving them too many facts and we all know that "facts" are just elitist tricks to scare us into doing what is best for us.

We are getting no facts just conjecture and fantasies. Were are the facts backed with hard evidence that we can all see. Like the saving we can expect if we bring in migrant welfare reforms, migrant education reforms and migrant health care reforms. The figures are available for these three aspects and the evidence of savings is overwhelming.

I showed you facts.

The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks because the forecast has been the UK will vote leave. The Euro has dropped from 0.79 to 0.77. If it drops to 0.7, which there is every chance it will do, then the UK will lose 500 billion or more. And save 11 billion, which everyone thinks is a great saving.

This doesn't account for the unknown loss of trade.

However, in 2004 when new countries joined, the UK increased trade with some of those new countries by 200% in the space of 2 years. Imagine losing 1% of trade could cost the UK 500 billion pounds a year, this is very conceivable, in fact losing more than this is possible.

WRONG as that would have happened anyway due to seasonal influences. How will the UK lose when we are not in the Euro, and the £ is going up. If you mean on spending power the more the Euro goes down the more we get for our £.
As I keep telling you those countries will still be trading as they need the goods and the EU cant provide them. So what will we lose again when the EU is struggling with mountains of waste because they have no buyers

Not wrong, you're talking rubbish.

The pound has clearly dropped because of the polls about leaving being ahead.

This is different the natural flow of currency which will go up and down. However the leave being ahead is sending it lower that it would be.

The pound is NOT GOING UP, stop making stuff up.

I find it ridiculous that there are people like you who will be voting to exit the EU when you have no idea of the issues, you want to believe what you want to believe and you'll shamelessly make up anything to get that view.

Trying to score points off of any dips in the market is disingenuous. The stock market sees a successful Brexit as a move towards uncertainty. The market absolutely hates uncertainty and reacts against it.

'Uncertainty' comes from a lack of foresight as to what the future will bring. The current dips say nothing for what ACTUAL future we can look forward to ... only a fear from a lack of complete rock-solid certainty, in their eyes, as to what it will definitely be. A good word to describe what's happening would be 'jitters'.

If the EU is such a good guarantee of our future ... tell me, how pleased were world markets to see the unfolding Greek financial crisis .. and its effect on the EU .. just not too long ago ? Greece has a small economy, yet, how much of a financial disturbance did THEY manage to cause ?

I suggest to you that the EU is a house of cards just waiting to come tumbling down. The sooner we're shot of them, the better.

This isn't just a "dip in the market", the whole point is that it's a dip for a reason, and it could easily signify a dip for a long time. This dip is about confidence.

If the UK leaves the EU, that dip in confidence could last years. That's a lot of money that otherwise wouldn't be lost.

We're talking hundreds of billions of pounds a year, and that will have an impact on jobs, on spending, on everything.

Trying to pass this off as "nothing" is simply not going to wash. This is almost certain to happen.

The Greek crisis is an example of where low confidence has a massive adverse effect. The EU were wrong to let Greece into the Euro, they knew this would have an adverse effect on the economy, but went ahead anyway, just as leaving the EU would have the same impact for the UK.

 

[Drummond]

We are getting no facts just conjecture and fantasies. Were are the facts backed with hard evidence that we can all see. Like the saving we can expect if we bring in migrant welfare reforms, migrant education reforms and migrant health care reforms. The figures are available for these three aspects and the evidence of savings is overwhelming.

I showed you facts.

The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks because the forecast has been the UK will vote leave. The Euro has dropped from 0.79 to 0.77. If it drops to 0.7, which there is every chance it will do, then the UK will lose 500 billion or more. And save 11 billion, which everyone thinks is a great saving.

This doesn't account for the unknown loss of trade.

However, in 2004 when new countries joined, the UK increased trade with some of those new countries by 200% in the space of 2 years. Imagine losing 1% of trade could cost the UK 500 billion pounds a year, this is very conceivable, in fact losing more than this is possible.

WRONG as that would have happened anyway due to seasonal influences. How will the UK lose when we are not in the Euro, and the £ is going up. If you mean on spending power the more the Euro goes down the more we get for our £.
As I keep telling you those countries will still be trading as they need the goods and the EU cant provide them. So what will we lose again when the EU is struggling with mountains of waste because they have no buyers

Not wrong, you're talking rubbish.

The pound has clearly dropped because of the polls about leaving being ahead.

This is different the natural flow of currency which will go up and down. However the leave being ahead is sending it lower that it would be.

The pound is NOT GOING UP, stop making stuff up.

I find it ridiculous that there are people like you who will be voting to exit the EU when you have no idea of the issues, you want to believe what you want to believe and you'll shamelessly make up anything to get that view.

Trying to score points off of any dips in the market is disingenuous. The stock market sees a successful Brexit as a move towards uncertainty. The market absolutely hates uncertainty and reacts against it.

'Uncertainty' comes from a lack of foresight as to what the future will bring. The current dips say nothing for what ACTUAL future we can look forward to ... only a fear from a lack of complete rock-solid certainty, in their eyes, as to what it will definitely be. A good word to describe what's happening would be 'jitters'.

If the EU is such a good guarantee of our future ... tell me, how pleased were world markets to see the unfolding Greek financial crisis .. and its effect on the EU .. just not too long ago ? Greece has a small economy, yet, how much of a financial disturbance did THEY manage to cause ?

I suggest to you that the EU is a house of cards just waiting to come tumbling down. The sooner we're shot of them, the better.

This isn't just a "dip in the market", the whole point is that it's a dip for a reason, and it could easily signify a dip for a long time. This dip is about confidence.

If the UK leaves the EU, that dip in confidence could last years. That's a lot of money that otherwise wouldn't be lost.

We're talking hundreds of billions of pounds a year, and that will have an impact on jobs, on spending, on everything.

Trying to pass this off as "nothing" is simply not going to wash. This is almost certain to happen.

The Greek crisis is an example of where low confidence has a massive adverse effect. The EU were wrong to let Greece into the Euro, they knew this would have an adverse effect on the economy, but went ahead anyway, just as leaving the EU would have the same impact for the UK.

Timing is against you in this.

Suppose that the Brexit side won. We'd immediately cut all ties that very day ?? NO ... it'd take months or years of procedural wrangling to finally arrange the cutting of the cord.

This is time we can use to create other business links, outside. Indeed, the two may overlap, and for a while, we'd benefit from trading with both the EU, AND from outside it, simultaneously. I think that once the markets see that happening ... all jitters will fade to nothing.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I showed you facts.

The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks because the forecast has been the UK will vote leave. The Euro has dropped from 0.79 to 0.77. If it drops to 0.7, which there is every chance it will do, then the UK will lose 500 billion or more. And save 11 billion, which everyone thinks is a great saving.

This doesn't account for the unknown loss of trade.

However, in 2004 when new countries joined, the UK increased trade with some of those new countries by 200% in the space of 2 years. Imagine losing 1% of trade could cost the UK 500 billion pounds a year, this is very conceivable, in fact losing more than this is possible.

WRONG as that would have happened anyway due to seasonal influences. How will the UK lose when we are not in the Euro, and the £ is going up. If you mean on spending power the more the Euro goes down the more we get for our £.
As I keep telling you those countries will still be trading as they need the goods and the EU cant provide them. So what will we lose again when the EU is struggling with mountains of waste because they have no buyers

Not wrong, you're talking rubbish.

The pound has clearly dropped because of the polls about leaving being ahead.

This is different the natural flow of currency which will go up and down. However the leave being ahead is sending it lower that it would be.

The pound is NOT GOING UP, stop making stuff up.

I find it ridiculous that there are people like you who will be voting to exit the EU when you have no idea of the issues, you want to believe what you want to believe and you'll shamelessly make up anything to get that view.

Trying to score points off of any dips in the market is disingenuous. The stock market sees a successful Brexit as a move towards uncertainty. The market absolutely hates uncertainty and reacts against it.

'Uncertainty' comes from a lack of foresight as to what the future will bring. The current dips say nothing for what ACTUAL future we can look forward to ... only a fear from a lack of complete rock-solid certainty, in their eyes, as to what it will definitely be. A good word to describe what's happening would be 'jitters'.

If the EU is such a good guarantee of our future ... tell me, how pleased were world markets to see the unfolding Greek financial crisis .. and its effect on the EU .. just not too long ago ? Greece has a small economy, yet, how much of a financial disturbance did THEY manage to cause ?

I suggest to you that the EU is a house of cards just waiting to come tumbling down. The sooner we're shot of them, the better.

This isn't just a "dip in the market", the whole point is that it's a dip for a reason, and it could easily signify a dip for a long time. This dip is about confidence.

If the UK leaves the EU, that dip in confidence could last years. That's a lot of money that otherwise wouldn't be lost.

We're talking hundreds of billions of pounds a year, and that will have an impact on jobs, on spending, on everything.

Trying to pass this off as "nothing" is simply not going to wash. This is almost certain to happen.

The Greek crisis is an example of where low confidence has a massive adverse effect. The EU were wrong to let Greece into the Euro, they knew this would have an adverse effect on the economy, but went ahead anyway, just as leaving the EU would have the same impact for the UK.

Timing is against you in this.

Suppose that the Brexit side won. We'd immediately cut all ties that very day ?? NO ... it'd take months or years of procedural wrangling to finally arrange the cutting of the cord.

This is time we can use to create other business links, outside. Indeed, the two may overlap, and for a while, we'd benefit from trading with both the EU, AND from outside it, simultaneously. I think that once the markets see that happening ... all jitters will fade to nothing.

No, I didn't say the UK would cut all ties. That's the PROBLEM.

So, if people know the UK is going to leave, and there's a process for this of two years. That's two years of lacking confidence. That's two years of the pound not having the confidence. We know what happens when people lose confidence, don't we?

Even using this time to create new links, or rearrange old ones, is going to be a very difficult time. Loss of jobs, loss of value in the pound, loss of money in the treasury, as the Chancellor said, and which the Brexit people have rejected, simply because they can just reject it, and not because they actually know.

 

[Drummond]

WRONG as that would have happened anyway due to seasonal influences. How will the UK lose when we are not in the Euro, and the £ is going up. If you mean on spending power the more the Euro goes down the more we get for our £.
As I keep telling you those countries will still be trading as they need the goods and the EU cant provide them. So what will we lose again when the EU is struggling with mountains of waste because they have no buyers

Not wrong, you're talking rubbish.

The pound has clearly dropped because of the polls about leaving being ahead.

This is different the natural flow of currency which will go up and down. However the leave being ahead is sending it lower that it would be.

The pound is NOT GOING UP, stop making stuff up.

I find it ridiculous that there are people like you who will be voting to exit the EU when you have no idea of the issues, you want to believe what you want to believe and you'll shamelessly make up anything to get that view.

Trying to score points off of any dips in the market is disingenuous. The stock market sees a successful Brexit as a move towards uncertainty. The market absolutely hates uncertainty and reacts against it.

'Uncertainty' comes from a lack of foresight as to what the future will bring. The current dips say nothing for what ACTUAL future we can look forward to ... only a fear from a lack of complete rock-solid certainty, in their eyes, as to what it will definitely be. A good word to describe what's happening would be 'jitters'.

If the EU is such a good guarantee of our future ... tell me, how pleased were world markets to see the unfolding Greek financial crisis .. and its effect on the EU .. just not too long ago ? Greece has a small economy, yet, how much of a financial disturbance did THEY manage to cause ?

I suggest to you that the EU is a house of cards just waiting to come tumbling down. The sooner we're shot of them, the better.

This isn't just a "dip in the market", the whole point is that it's a dip for a reason, and it could easily signify a dip for a long time. This dip is about confidence.

If the UK leaves the EU, that dip in confidence could last years. That's a lot of money that otherwise wouldn't be lost.

We're talking hundreds of billions of pounds a year, and that will have an impact on jobs, on spending, on everything.

Trying to pass this off as "nothing" is simply not going to wash. This is almost certain to happen.

The Greek crisis is an example of where low confidence has a massive adverse effect. The EU were wrong to let Greece into the Euro, they knew this would have an adverse effect on the economy, but went ahead anyway, just as leaving the EU would have the same impact for the UK.

Timing is against you in this.

Suppose that the Brexit side won. We'd immediately cut all ties that very day ?? NO ... it'd take months or years of procedural wrangling to finally arrange the cutting of the cord.

This is time we can use to create other business links, outside. Indeed, the two may overlap, and for a while, we'd benefit from trading with both the EU, AND from outside it, simultaneously. I think that once the markets see that happening ... all jitters will fade to nothing.

No, I didn't say the UK would cut all ties. That's the PROBLEM.

So, if people know the UK is going to leave, and there's a process for this of two years. That's two years of lacking confidence. That's two years of the pound not having the confidence. We know what happens when people lose confidence, don't we?

Even using this time to create new links, or rearrange old ones, is going to be a very difficult time. Loss of jobs, loss of value in the pound, loss of money in the treasury, as the Chancellor said, and which the Brexit people have rejected, simply because they can just reject it, and not because they actually know.

There will be 'hiccups', no doubt, just as there is whenever any new arrangements are made, anywhere, in any way. But I disagree with you. Our progress in creating new trading ties will increase, not decrease, confidence in us as time goes on. We'll have residual trading with the EU (and probably some, maybe much, of that will be preserved). We will create other opportunities. We will be seen to succeed in this, and we will undoubtedly get new jobs come into the UK on the back of it. How do you know we will lose more than we'll gain ? You've no way at all of estimating that outcome.

And we'll stop paying outlandish membership fees to the EU, year-on-year, on top of it all ! Yes, I think we'll be a lot better off in the longer term.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Not wrong, you're talking rubbish.

The pound has clearly dropped because of the polls about leaving being ahead.

This is different the natural flow of currency which will go up and down. However the leave being ahead is sending it lower that it would be.

The pound is NOT GOING UP, stop making stuff up.

I find it ridiculous that there are people like you who will be voting to exit the EU when you have no idea of the issues, you want to believe what you want to believe and you'll shamelessly make up anything to get that view.

Trying to score points off of any dips in the market is disingenuous. The stock market sees a successful Brexit as a move towards uncertainty. The market absolutely hates uncertainty and reacts against it.

'Uncertainty' comes from a lack of foresight as to what the future will bring. The current dips say nothing for what ACTUAL future we can look forward to ... only a fear from a lack of complete rock-solid certainty, in their eyes, as to what it will definitely be. A good word to describe what's happening would be 'jitters'.

If the EU is such a good guarantee of our future ... tell me, how pleased were world markets to see the unfolding Greek financial crisis .. and its effect on the EU .. just not too long ago ? Greece has a small economy, yet, how much of a financial disturbance did THEY manage to cause ?

I suggest to you that the EU is a house of cards just waiting to come tumbling down. The sooner we're shot of them, the better.

This isn't just a "dip in the market", the whole point is that it's a dip for a reason, and it could easily signify a dip for a long time. This dip is about confidence.

If the UK leaves the EU, that dip in confidence could last years. That's a lot of money that otherwise wouldn't be lost.

We're talking hundreds of billions of pounds a year, and that will have an impact on jobs, on spending, on everything.

Trying to pass this off as "nothing" is simply not going to wash. This is almost certain to happen.

The Greek crisis is an example of where low confidence has a massive adverse effect. The EU were wrong to let Greece into the Euro, they knew this would have an adverse effect on the economy, but went ahead anyway, just as leaving the EU would have the same impact for the UK.

Timing is against you in this.

Suppose that the Brexit side won. We'd immediately cut all ties that very day ?? NO ... it'd take months or years of procedural wrangling to finally arrange the cutting of the cord.

This is time we can use to create other business links, outside. Indeed, the two may overlap, and for a while, we'd benefit from trading with both the EU, AND from outside it, simultaneously. I think that once the markets see that happening ... all jitters will fade to nothing.

No, I didn't say the UK would cut all ties. That's the PROBLEM.

So, if people know the UK is going to leave, and there's a process for this of two years. That's two years of lacking confidence. That's two years of the pound not having the confidence. We know what happens when people lose confidence, don't we?

Even using this time to create new links, or rearrange old ones, is going to be a very difficult time. Loss of jobs, loss of value in the pound, loss of money in the treasury, as the Chancellor said, and which the Brexit people have rejected, simply because they can just reject it, and not because they actually know.

There will be 'hiccups', no doubt, just as there is whenever any new arrangements are made, anywhere, in any way. But I disagree with you. Our progress in creating new trading ties will increase, not decrease, confidence in us as time goes on. We'll have residual trading with the EU (and probably some, maybe much, of that will be preserved). We will create other opportunities. We will be seen to succeed in this, and we will undoubtedly get new jobs come into the UK on the back of it. How do you know we will lose more than we'll gain ? You've no way at all of estimating that outcome.

And we'll stop paying outlandish membership fees to the EU, year-on-year, on top of it all ! Yes, I think we'll be a lot better off in the longer term.

"hiccups" that could cost the UK 500 billion a year or more, in order to save paying 11 billion a year.... and this could last for two or three years and the subsequent impact this has on employment and confidence later down the line. Plus the chance that the UK has less trade in the future. As I said, trade increased massively with countries that joined the EU. This could just diminish as it had grown.

Trading ties might increase over time. They might not be as good as they were under the EU, especially with EU countries.

You talk about the outlandish fees, but they are nothing compared with what the UK will lose.

If it lose 500 million a year for 2 years, then this is 100 years worth of EU fees.

 

[Drummond]

Trying to score points off of any dips in the market is disingenuous. The stock market sees a successful Brexit as a move towards uncertainty. The market absolutely hates uncertainty and reacts against it.

'Uncertainty' comes from a lack of foresight as to what the future will bring. The current dips say nothing for what ACTUAL future we can look forward to ... only a fear from a lack of complete rock-solid certainty, in their eyes, as to what it will definitely be. A good word to describe what's happening would be 'jitters'.

If the EU is such a good guarantee of our future ... tell me, how pleased were world markets to see the unfolding Greek financial crisis .. and its effect on the EU .. just not too long ago ? Greece has a small economy, yet, how much of a financial disturbance did THEY manage to cause ?

I suggest to you that the EU is a house of cards just waiting to come tumbling down. The sooner we're shot of them, the better.

This isn't just a "dip in the market", the whole point is that it's a dip for a reason, and it could easily signify a dip for a long time. This dip is about confidence.

If the UK leaves the EU, that dip in confidence could last years. That's a lot of money that otherwise wouldn't be lost.

We're talking hundreds of billions of pounds a year, and that will have an impact on jobs, on spending, on everything.

Trying to pass this off as "nothing" is simply not going to wash. This is almost certain to happen.

The Greek crisis is an example of where low confidence has a massive adverse effect. The EU were wrong to let Greece into the Euro, they knew this would have an adverse effect on the economy, but went ahead anyway, just as leaving the EU would have the same impact for the UK.

Timing is against you in this.

Suppose that the Brexit side won. We'd immediately cut all ties that very day ?? NO ... it'd take months or years of procedural wrangling to finally arrange the cutting of the cord.

This is time we can use to create other business links, outside. Indeed, the two may overlap, and for a while, we'd benefit from trading with both the EU, AND from outside it, simultaneously. I think that once the markets see that happening ... all jitters will fade to nothing.

No, I didn't say the UK would cut all ties. That's the PROBLEM.

So, if people know the UK is going to leave, and there's a process for this of two years. That's two years of lacking confidence. That's two years of the pound not having the confidence. We know what happens when people lose confidence, don't we?

Even using this time to create new links, or rearrange old ones, is going to be a very difficult time. Loss of jobs, loss of value in the pound, loss of money in the treasury, as the Chancellor said, and which the Brexit people have rejected, simply because they can just reject it, and not because they actually know.

There will be 'hiccups', no doubt, just as there is whenever any new arrangements are made, anywhere, in any way. But I disagree with you. Our progress in creating new trading ties will increase, not decrease, confidence in us as time goes on. We'll have residual trading with the EU (and probably some, maybe much, of that will be preserved). We will create other opportunities. We will be seen to succeed in this, and we will undoubtedly get new jobs come into the UK on the back of it. How do you know we will lose more than we'll gain ? You've no way at all of estimating that outcome.

And we'll stop paying outlandish membership fees to the EU, year-on-year, on top of it all ! Yes, I think we'll be a lot better off in the longer term.

"hiccups" that could cost the UK 500 billion a year or more, in order to save paying 11 billion a year.... and this could last for two or three years and the subsequent impact this has on employment and confidence later down the line. Plus the chance that the UK has less trade in the future. As I said, trade increased massively with countries that joined the EU. This could just diminish as it had grown.

Trading ties might increase over time. They might not be as good as they were under the EU, especially with EU countries.

You talk about the outlandish fees, but they are nothing compared with what the UK will lose.

If it lose 500 million a year for 2 years, then this is 100 years worth of EU fees.

'Could' this ... 'could' that .... really, this is all speculation on your part. Alarmist speculation at that.

When you really get down to it, the anti-Brexit side has been foisting alarmist, scaremongering stuff our way pretty much from day one. We're supposed to be scared of standing on our own two feet, as a 'standalone' political entity. So much better THAT outcome, eh, than to have autonomy. The freedom to be ourselves, and not just some satellite of the EU !!

 

[Phoenall]

Problem is that they've gone to weird lengths to scare us all. Including saying that WWIII might break out, or a recent one, that 'Western political civilisation' will end !!!

Why scare us with such rot, UNLESS, the anti-Brexit case was truly a very weak one ??

Perhaps people are fed up with being treated like idiots, being bullied by scare tactics into thinking as the anti-Brexit mob want us to think. We've had enough of such shabbiness, such disreputability ... this no doubt also including the apparent latest Budget threat .. ??

This made me laugh.

Yes, some on the stay campaign have said stuff that you might deem to be scary.

However the Brexit people have been talking up the joys and wonder of leaving the EU, no doubt they've said every person in the UK will get to ride unicorns if the UK leaves.
But then they've gone really negative about immigration, like Turkish immigrants, remember this?

Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals

"
Time to LEAVE: Britain will receive ‘seven million immigrants’ by 2035, report reveals"

"according to research from the think tank Migration Watch. "

MigrationWatch UK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"MigrationWatch UK is an immigration and asylum research organisation and think-tank, which describes itself as independent and non-political, but which has been characterised by some commentators and academics as a right-wing pressure group. It was founded and is chaired by Lord Green of Deddington,"

He's a member of Christian Solidarity Worldwide which is a Christian Human Rights group that tries to stop the persecution of Christians.

Number of UK Muslims exceeds three million for first time

"he is in reality a very controversial participant in the most sensitive political issue of the moment,"

This guy isn't independent by any means. And saying 7 million Turks will be in the UK, which is based on NOTHING, then it's scaremongering too. But that scaremongering you like, right? Or am I wrong?


The reality is, this whole campaign has just been very irritating with people not stating the facts so that people can see them.

You say "people are fed up with being treated like idiots", come on, you're loving being treated like idiots from the Brexit people.

Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals

I just picked the first article on the Express, knowing I'd get what I'm looking for.

"
Inept EU plans ENCOURAGE more migrants to flock to the bloc, furious coastguard reveals"

So, what could this be all about? The coastguard is saying that the EU is encouraging migrants to flock to the EU. How? By letting them come, by offering shelter and so on? By going and telling these people to move to the EU?

Nope

"But international laws state that European naval vessels must stay at least 12 nautical miles from the shire of the North African country."

Ah, they're saying the EU is encouraging migrants to move to the EU by following INTERNATIONAL LAW. I mean, fucking hell, you'd have to be really stupid to think the mirror is correct when it says the EU is encouraging immigration to the EU (after saying it's harder to get from Turkey to Greece earlier in the article) by following international law and not going into other sovereign countries.

Now, the EU's been accused by you of being this big bully that says stuff and this is proof the UK should leave. Now, the Brexit people are claiming the coastguard should be invading foreign waters in order to stop this.... I'm sorry, but, wtf?

67% of those who voted, said the EU shot itself in the foot by not invading other countries.

I think I could go on all day of examples where the Mirror, and Brexit people, are treating people like idiots, and you people are lapping it up.

And your point being what exactly ?

Well, if you read it, you should see the point.

The point is basically that scaremongering happens on both sides, so to say that you hate this scaremongering when you probably support that of your own side, is quite simply not right.

The point is this is just your opinion, and it is worth as much as an Irish 9 punt coin. I gave valid reasons backed with facts and all you have is the Chancellor threatening to increase taxes. When the word was earlier this year that the EU was looking at forcing taxes to rise anyway.

I've backed up my point with sources at times. The whole "11 million Turks will end up in the UK" is scaremongering, for example.

The Chancellor increasing taxes is almost certainly not a threat, but reality.

Like I've said, the UK has lost 100 billion from yearly trade with the EU, just in the last 2 weeks alone, because the pound has dropped. No one is saying trade will be better off with Brexit, NO ONE, not even the Brexit people. If you lose trade, if the pound is weaker, how can the chancellor say anything other than he'll have to spend less and raise taxes? I mean, that's just simple knowledge.

However the Brexit people shout "no true" for anything they don't like. So, hardly surprising they've done it again.

Why will he when the money being leeched by the EU is no longer going that way. The money spent on eastern Europeans welfare will no longer be spent, nor on their medical treatments, education, housing ETC. So what will he do with all that money, which will be enough to offset any losses to the government. You lot in the remain camp don't do your maths very well do you, or you hope that someone wont see the money being saved by leaving will far outweigh the costs of leaving. So why wont he be honest and say he will reduce taxes and VAT on the strength of the monetary gains he will have.


I MEAN IT IS JUST SIMPLE MATHS AND KNOWLEDGE THAT WE WILL BE PAYING LESS AND GETTING MORE.

 

[Phoenall]

No question BREXIT would be temporarily very difficult for Britain.

But once Germany opts out - and it won't take long to follow - the whole picture changes.

Then there's the positive side:

Scotland will likely vote to break away and Hadrian's wall can be restored with appropriate toll booths and a proper kill zone.

You think Germany will opt out? Not a chance. They EU will stay together and become more of an EU superpower than every before. You're dreaming if you think the Germans will leave.

Do you honestly think so when the money starts to dry up and the other member states want their handouts. France and Germany have their reason/excuse to leave now in the UK's impending exit

You haven't made a case at all, it feels like I'm reading the Express.

Germany and France CONTROL the EU, why would they want out? It's like saying that if Scotland left the British Union that England would want to leave too. Er.... Come off it. You're not making arguments, you're throwing soundbites that aren't backed up with anything at me.

As opposed to the socialist worker or Islamic times.


Where will they get the money from when the UK leaves. They even tried a threat through football and it failed when England started to pack their bags and go home. They are running scared of the impending strikes and riots when the farmers subsidies are no longer being paid. The people of France and Germany will look for a means of getting out themselves because their taxes have gone sky high to pay for the failing economies in the east

 

[Phoenall]

Osborne will happily try and scare people into rejecting Brexit. Just more scaremongering - and spiteful stuff ? - from the 'Remain' crowd.

Looks like the're not going to get the message until it's too late, namely, that scaremongering and blackmail will only alienate voters from supporting them. Chalk this up to another little victory for the Brexit side !

So, when the stay camp does it, it's scaremongering, what is it when the leave camp do it?

He's the chancellor, he's the one looking at the books. I mean, look at the stats, as I've shown you, and see if the UK can cope with a 700 billion loss per year (potentially) and balance the books on the saving of 11 billion a year.

And that 700 billion loss is from what, if it is showing because we leave then it must also show if we stay. Or he is cooking the books and will be caught out.

It is based on hocus pocus like if the sun shines at midnight on the autumn equinox then the UK economy will take a nose dive

It's what" It's 700 billion loss on trade.

How is this hocus pocus? I've shown you the FACTS and you've just plainly ignored them. The UK has lost 100 billion on yearly trade in 2 weeks already, this is fact. I notice you haven't even mentioned this.

Because there are no facts just conjecture, what trade is to be affected causing a loss of 700billion a week. Name one commodity that will cease to be sold to Europe and cost the UK money.


As I said hocus pocus and smoke with no actual evidence to support the claim. Services have clauses in the contracts that make the service provided the intellectual property of the provider, so they will not hand that over for free, and will charge say 5 years of the contract price to release it. Trade agreements will be for a certain term and again will have clauses protecting both parties. So really it will mean an initial increase in funds, followed by a small period of uncertainty and finally new outlets found and new markets

Yeah, you just call FACTS hocus pocus because you don't want to believe.

You mind isn't open. Drummond at least listens and makes an argument back, you're just listening in some fantasy world.

What facts as you have only presented conjecture, as " 700billion lost in trade" what commodities, what trade , where will it be lost from, and where will it go to. Shall I tell you, straight back into your fantasy world you carry around in your shoulder bag. It is just like the Scots oil fantasy that would plug any gaps in the full devolution. And then Oil started to drop in price, north sea rigs shut down and the oil industry in Scotland all but closed up shop. The projected £trillions surplus suddenly became a negative of even more £trillions and Salmond resigned as a result.

Seems the remain team employ the same economists and would argue that they cant get it right every time. They cant get it right ever

 

[Phoenall]

Trying to score points off of any dips in the market is disingenuous. The stock market sees a successful Brexit as a move towards uncertainty. The market absolutely hates uncertainty and reacts against it.

'Uncertainty' comes from a lack of foresight as to what the future will bring. The current dips say nothing for what ACTUAL future we can look forward to ... only a fear from a lack of complete rock-solid certainty, in their eyes, as to what it will definitely be. A good word to describe what's happening would be 'jitters'.

If the EU is such a good guarantee of our future ... tell me, how pleased were world markets to see the unfolding Greek financial crisis .. and its effect on the EU .. just not too long ago ? Greece has a small economy, yet, how much of a financial disturbance did THEY manage to cause ?

I suggest to you that the EU is a house of cards just waiting to come tumbling down. The sooner we're shot of them, the better.

This isn't just a "dip in the market", the whole point is that it's a dip for a reason, and it could easily signify a dip for a long time. This dip is about confidence.

If the UK leaves the EU, that dip in confidence could last years. That's a lot of money that otherwise wouldn't be lost.

We're talking hundreds of billions of pounds a year, and that will have an impact on jobs, on spending, on everything.

Trying to pass this off as "nothing" is simply not going to wash. This is almost certain to happen.

The Greek crisis is an example of where low confidence has a massive adverse effect. The EU were wrong to let Greece into the Euro, they knew this would have an adverse effect on the economy, but went ahead anyway, just as leaving the EU would have the same impact for the UK.

Timing is against you in this.

Suppose that the Brexit side won. We'd immediately cut all ties that very day ?? NO ... it'd take months or years of procedural wrangling to finally arrange the cutting of the cord.

This is time we can use to create other business links, outside. Indeed, the two may overlap, and for a while, we'd benefit from trading with both the EU, AND from outside it, simultaneously. I think that once the markets see that happening ... all jitters will fade to nothing.

No, I didn't say the UK would cut all ties. That's the PROBLEM.

So, if people know the UK is going to leave, and there's a process for this of two years. That's two years of lacking confidence. That's two years of the pound not having the confidence. We know what happens when people lose confidence, don't we?

Even using this time to create new links, or rearrange old ones, is going to be a very difficult time. Loss of jobs, loss of value in the pound, loss of money in the treasury, as the Chancellor said, and which the Brexit people have rejected, simply because they can just reject it, and not because they actually know.

There will be 'hiccups', no doubt, just as there is whenever any new arrangements are made, anywhere, in any way. But I disagree with you. Our progress in creating new trading ties will increase, not decrease, confidence in us as time goes on. We'll have residual trading with the EU (and probably some, maybe much, of that will be preserved). We will create other opportunities. We will be seen to succeed in this, and we will undoubtedly get new jobs come into the UK on the back of it. How do you know we will lose more than we'll gain ? You've no way at all of estimating that outcome.

And we'll stop paying outlandish membership fees to the EU, year-on-year, on top of it all ! Yes, I think we'll be a lot better off in the longer term.

"hiccups" that could cost the UK 500 billion a year or more, in order to save paying 11 billion a year.... and this could last for two or three years and the subsequent impact this has on employment and confidence later down the line. Plus the chance that the UK has less trade in the future. As I said, trade increased massively with countries that joined the EU. This could just diminish as it had grown.

Trading ties might increase over time. They might not be as good as they were under the EU, especially with EU countries.

You talk about the outlandish fees, but they are nothing compared with what the UK will lose.

If it lose 500 million a year for 2 years, then this is 100 years worth of EU fees.

See you cant even get the costs right as the direct cost of the EU is £18,777billion per annum, and an indirect cost closer to your fantasy figure of £500 billion

Things like we buy more from the EU than they buy from us giving us a trade deficit of £100billion
The Lisbon treaty says that the EU is forced to make trade agreements with leaving nations
The EU is banned from forcing tariffs on any nation by the WTO
EU over regulation costs 600billion Euros a year, and EU regulation has cost the UK £124 billion
Official Swiss government figures conclude that through their trade agreements with the EU, the Swiss pay the EU under 600 million Swiss Francs a year, but enjoy virtually free access to the EU market. The Swiss have estimated that full EU membership would cost Switzerland net payments of 3.4 billion Swiss francs a year.
EU membership costs UK billions of pounds and large numbers of lost jobs thanks to unnecessary and excessive red tape, substantial membership and aid contributions, inflated consumer prices and other associated costs.
The Common Fisheries Policy has cost British coastal communities 115,000 jobs

 

[Phoenall]

WRONG as that would have happened anyway due to seasonal influences. How will the UK lose when we are not in the Euro, and the £ is going up. If you mean on spending power the more the Euro goes down the more we get for our £.
As I keep telling you those countries will still be trading as they need the goods and the EU cant provide them. So what will we lose again when the EU is struggling with mountains of waste because they have no buyers

Not wrong, you're talking rubbish.

The pound has clearly dropped because of the polls about leaving being ahead.

This is different the natural flow of currency which will go up and down. However the leave being ahead is sending it lower that it would be.

The pound is NOT GOING UP, stop making stuff up.

I find it ridiculous that there are people like you who will be voting to exit the EU when you have no idea of the issues, you want to believe what you want to believe and you'll shamelessly make up anything to get that view.

Trying to score points off of any dips in the market is disingenuous. The stock market sees a successful Brexit as a move towards uncertainty. The market absolutely hates uncertainty and reacts against it.

'Uncertainty' comes from a lack of foresight as to what the future will bring. The current dips say nothing for what ACTUAL future we can look forward to ... only a fear from a lack of complete rock-solid certainty, in their eyes, as to what it will definitely be. A good word to describe what's happening would be 'jitters'.

If the EU is such a good guarantee of our future ... tell me, how pleased were world markets to see the unfolding Greek financial crisis .. and its effect on the EU .. just not too long ago ? Greece has a small economy, yet, how much of a financial disturbance did THEY manage to cause ?

I suggest to you that the EU is a house of cards just waiting to come tumbling down. The sooner we're shot of them, the better.

This isn't just a "dip in the market", the whole point is that it's a dip for a reason, and it could easily signify a dip for a long time. This dip is about confidence.

If the UK leaves the EU, that dip in confidence could last years. That's a lot of money that otherwise wouldn't be lost.

We're talking hundreds of billions of pounds a year, and that will have an impact on jobs, on spending, on everything.

Trying to pass this off as "nothing" is simply not going to wash. This is almost certain to happen.

The Greek crisis is an example of where low confidence has a massive adverse effect. The EU were wrong to let Greece into the Euro, they knew this would have an adverse effect on the economy, but went ahead anyway, just as leaving the EU would have the same impact for the UK.

Timing is against you in this.

Suppose that the Brexit side won. We'd immediately cut all ties that very day ?? NO ... it'd take months or years of procedural wrangling to finally arrange the cutting of the cord.

This is time we can use to create other business links, outside. Indeed, the two may overlap, and for a while, we'd benefit from trading with both the EU, AND from outside it, simultaneously. I think that once the markets see that happening ... all jitters will fade to nothing.

No, I didn't say the UK would cut all ties. That's the PROBLEM.

So, if people know the UK is going to leave, and there's a process for this of two years. That's two years of lacking confidence. That's two years of the pound not having the confidence. We know what happens when people lose confidence, don't we?

Even using this time to create new links, or rearrange old ones, is going to be a very difficult time. Loss of jobs, loss of value in the pound, loss of money in the treasury, as the Chancellor said, and which the Brexit people have rejected, simply because they can just reject it, and not because they actually know.

NO it is 1 day and it is a done deal. Read the Lisbon treaty. So LIE number 1

NO the EU is forced by their own laws to make trade deals as fast as they can So LIE number 2

Want to try again

 

[Tommy Tainant]