Zone1 Broad-brush reparations to all blacks is unconstituional

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

If her parents were born into slavery, they were infants in 1865. If they were born in 1865, they would be 100 in 1965. Infants or toddlers weren’t affected by slavery to any great extent. I knew my Comanche great, great grandmother when I was very young, she died in her low hundreds in about 1955. She didn’t know her exact age, but she was old enough to vaguely remember the immediate post ACW years. Your great great aunt couldn’t have memories of slavery.

Someone else challenged me on this before and my mom provided me with an autographed copy of my cousin's book, we then did the math. I posted the results at this link:
The value of slavery?

 

[Lisa558]

Reparations were given to all surviving Japanese Americans who were interned. No one was excluded because they received a free college education. No one was excluded because they became wealthy and successful after they were released. None of that mitigates the wrong that was done or the violations of their civil rights based on their race. I strongly suspect that when Germany did reparations they likewise did not exclude those who became successful or benefited from any government programs. So why does it matter when it comes to Blacks?

They were interred!! In prison!! How can you compare that to having to defer to Jim Crowe laws IF a black man from the north decides to visit the South? And a black man, at that, who has gained tremendously from the government‘s generosity in paying for his college?

And stop with your obvious implication that it’s because the group being discussed is Black - which is again your sly way of saying I’m racist. It’s the CIRCUMSTANCES that matter. The color is irrelevant.

 

[Foxfyre]

A signature on a piece of paper in 1964 didn't magically give us equal rights. Again, here is proof:

“I can say for sure that happens because I did it. Before retirement, Iwas an Engineer. For the last 20 years of my career, I was a Manager and Director and I hired hundreds of people. I reviewed well over a thousand resumes for all kinds of positions. Everything from Secretaries to Engineering Managers. Both Salary and Hourly. I always culled out the resumes with Black Ethnic names. Never shortlisted anybody with a Black Ethnic name. Never hired them.”

No doubt you've seen this being done.

It's not people like me that won't allow for a colorblind society.. It's people like you. Because you ain't going to get to colorblind by not pointing out racism when it happens. Whites have had since 1776 to get this right, and yet we are here now having the same argument. So to me this job means there are whites who don't want to change and think they can continue bulllshitting us by promising that one day it will change if blacks just don't say anything to you about it.

Booker T Washington has been dead for over 100 years. And the blacks coming up now are out of patience.. 247 years has been plenty of time. Work to end racism in the white community.

Like I said, it is people with your attitudes that keeps racism alive and well. And it's a darn shame because it could be so much better if racism wasn't your whole focus and belief system to the point you are willing to set black people back generations to keep it alive and well.

 

[Foxfyre]

No, the reason racism won't go away is because there are still so many white (and other) racists in the United States who believe it's perfectly fine to be a racist as long as nobody catches you doing things that are detrimental to the rights and wellbeing of Black Americans.

The vast majority of white people would like to just enjoy a colorblind society. People like you won't allow that. And that's a shame.

 

[Lisa558]

Like I said, it is people with your attitudes that keeps racism alive and well. And it's a darn shame because it could be so much better if racism wasn't your whole focus and belief system to the point you are willing to set black people back generations to keep it alive and well.

He’s actually engendering racism.

 

[Lisa558]

The vast majority of white people would like to just enjoy a colorblind society. People like you won't allow that. And that's a shame.

I don’t think she and IM2 want a colorblind society. When I said I was opposed to affirmative action in which blacks were admitted over whites with better metrics due to race - and that I thought skin color should not be a factor - I was, predictably, called a racist.

What’s happening is that any white who does not think special advantages should be given to blacks is called a racist. This was made clear when our previous governor, in a race and making a last-ditch attempt to win the black vote, proposed a higher pay scale for black teachers - and said that any white who objected was racist.

 

[Coyote]

They were interred!! In prison!! How can you compare that to having to defer to Jim Crowe laws IF a black man from the north decides to visit the South? And a black man, at that, who has gained tremendously from the government‘s generosity in paying for his college?

Again, Lisa, you show that you have no clue what Jim Crowe was or the violence towards Black people that was legitimized under it. Your statement is breathtakingly appalling in its ignorance! You really should about what it was like under Jim Crowe laws.

And stop with your obvious implication that it’s because the group being discussed is Black - which is again your sly way of saying I’m racist. It’s the CIRCUMSTANCES that matter. The color is irrelevant.

Except that the color appears to be relevant when reparations for other racial groups cause no drama but reparations for Blacks are somehow always “different”.

To put it bluntly - no one demanded that Japanese Americans who received a free college education be exempted from reparations.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

There have been no Jim Crow laws approaching 60 years now. 60 years. There aren't all that many people still living who even remember experiencing the Jim Crow laws. At some point you have to allow society to accept that the old problems were fixed and allow people to proceed on their own ability and merit.

You do irreparable harm to black people now by demanding they remain black victims. So long as you do that, we will never have a color blind society or anything approaching equal opportunity.

My mother is still with us, and we give thanks for each day we still have with her. Her father was a Tuskegee Airman and he along with 9 other high-ranking officers in the U.S. army air corps lost their lives when their plane crashed just short of the runway back at Moton field in Tuskegee, Alabama.

We've been told that they asked to be diverted to another airport because of a thunderstorm in the area at Moton but were denied their request because Moton field was the only place in Alabama that Black airmen were allowed to be. So rather than letting them divert, they vectored then directly into a severe thunderstorm which ultimately caused their plane to crash, killed all 10 officers on board.

My grandfather, captain John Daniels survived dog fights with the Germans, being shot down and crash landing his aircraft with a live bomb still in the bay and was one of the distinguished "Red Tails" who were requested as escorts by the bombadiers because they had a nearly spotless record of never losing a plane they were charged with protecting.

He accomplished all of that, helping to fight the Nazis and free Lisa's people only to die upon return to his own country because the locals were too prejudiced to let them land somewhere safe as opposed to the only place Black pilots were allowed.

Our family WAS a victim to Jim Crow and racist whites' irrational fear of Black people, even those who had served honorably during the war, when they allowed those men to die the way they did.

By the way, my grandfather's side of the family also lost a child in the Birmingham church bombing so when I remind Lisa that these are not historical events that've only read about, that they personally impacted members of our family, these are just some of the things I'm referring to.

 

[IM2]

Black people who want to enjoy the best the American dream has to offer should see themselves as Americans, not black people, not white people, not anything other than people. Skin color should be of no more importance than eye color or hair color. ALL people whatever their heritage, country of origin, ethnicity, race or whatever should be taught/encourage to educate themselves and dress, speak, conduct themselves for success.

We have myriad cultures in American society but smart money is not making one's cultural heritage more than just something interesting about themselves. It is not smart to make it the most important and noticeable thing about themselves and thereby create prejudices where none would otherwise exist.

Please stop. Go learn American history..

On February 25th, 1913, the sixteenth amendment of the United States Constitution was ratified. This amendment created the income tax. Today,every working American must pay income tax unless their income is below a certain level. Most states began income taxes during Jim Crow Apartheid, and working blacks paid income taxes that helped states implement policies enforcing apartheid.

More than fifty billion dollars was spent on The New Deal and Servicemen’s Readjustment Act. That amount is the equivalent to just over 1 trillion dollars today. Both programs are credited with providing a significant boost to wealth accumulation in America. These programs created the white middle class of today. Both policies excluded vast numbers of blacks who worked and paid taxes. Federal housing policies kept blacks segregated in poorly built or maintained property using tax dollars working blacks paid.

Whites made race an issue and benefited from it. The damage caused by this will not be fixed by ignoring color. What you propose keeps things the same, including racial animosity.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

It is still trespass, it’s just unlikely that the law would be enforced against a white. Now you are just being stubbornly stupid for nor admitting that you made a mistake.

Yes it's trespass but ONLY if you're Black.

I didn't make a mistake, I stated exactly what I meant.

 

[Coyote]

I don’t think she and IM2 want a colorblind society. When I said I was opposed to affirmative action in which blacks were admitted over whites with better metrics due to race - and that I thought skin color should not be a factor - I was, predictably, called a racist.

What’s happening is that any white who does not think special advantages should be given to blacks is called a racist. This was made clear when our previous governor, in a race and making a last-ditch attempt to win the black vote, proposed a higher pay scale for black teachers - and said that any white who objected was racist.

Lisa, you will never have a color blind society as long as there are people who obsess over the proportion of minorities portrayed in ads or get upset over a minority actor playing a formerly white role.

 

[Foxfyre]

Again, Lisa, you show that you have no clue what Jim Crowe was or the violence towards Black people that was legitimized under it. Your statement is breathtakingly appalling in its ignorance! You really should about what it was like under Jim Crowe laws.




Except that the color appears to be relevant when reparations for other racial groups cause no drama but reparations for Blacks are somehow always “different”.

To put it bluntly - no one demanded that Japanese Americans who received a free college education be exempted from reparations.

It was Japanese Americans who were interred that received reparation, not all Japanese. If we were going to pay reparations it should have been in 1964 when black people were living who actually suffered under Jim Crow laws but even then it would have been almost impossible to determine conclusively who suffered actual damages and who did not. All did not.

Now 60 years after the fact, the idea that all black people have been harmed by Jim Crow laws and are entitled to reparations is so stupid I don't even know where to begin. It is the most blatant form of pandering by a corrupt political party and should be unacceptable to every American regardless of skin color.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

You keep trotting out this one example. He would have been fired if his upper management had found out about his actions. He made the entire company liable for his illegal actions. Your conduct isn’t helping you make your case.

Where there's smoke there's fire? Surely he's not the only one doing this especially if he managed to get away with it for as long as he claims.

 

[Lisa558]

Lisa, you will never have a color blind society as long as there are people who obsess over the proportion of minorities portrayed in ads or get upset over a minority actor playing a formerly white role.

No, you will never have a color blind society when advertising models are picked based on skin color - which is what is happening. Otherwise, it is a statistical impossibility for 20 ads to ALL have 20 blacks when they are 14% of the population and NO whites when they are 70% of the population.

Pointing out the race-based hiring decisions is NOT what is causing problems. The problem is that there IS such race-based decisions. You honestly think the Harvard president would have been selected if she were white? The WH Press Secretary? The VP? All are woefully under qualified and got their jobs because of their skin color.

When that type of thing stops happening, and the job goes to the BEST candidate regardless of color, rather than the best we could find who is black specifically, then we will be colorblind.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The vast majority of white people would like to just enjoy a colorblind society. People like you won't allow that. And that's a shame.

Oh so now Black people are the reason white people can't have nice things and enjoy the colorblind society that they would like?

I have no power to influence any of that.

 

[Foxfyre]

My mother is still with us, and we give thanks for each day we still have with her. Her father was a Tuskegee Airman and he along with 9 other high-ranking officers in the U.S. army air corps lost their lives when their plane crashed just short of the runway back at Moton field in Tuskegee, Alabama.

We've been told that they asked to be diverted to another airport because of a thunderstorm in the area at Moton but were denied their request because Moton field was the only place in Alabama that Black airmen were allowed to be. So rather than letting them divert, they vectored then directly into a severe thunderstorm which ultimately caused their plane to crash, killed all 10 officers on board.

My grandfather, captain John Daniels survived dog fights with the Germans, being shot down and crash landing his aircraft with a live bomb still in the bay and was one of the distinguished "Red Tails" who were requested as escorts by the bombadiers because they had a nearly spotless record of never losing a plane they were charged with protecting.

He accomplished all of that, helping to fight the Nazis and free Lisa's people only to die upon return to his own country because the locals were too prejudiced to let them land somewhere safe as opposed to the only place Black pilots were allowed.

Our family WAS a victim to Jim Crow and racist whites' irrational fear of Black people, even those who had served honorably during the war, when they allowed those men to die the way they did.

By the way, my grandfather's side of the family also lost a child in the Birmingham church bombing so when I remind Lisa that these are not historical events that've only read about, that they personally impacted members of our family, these are just some of the things I'm referring to.

And that entitles you to reparations why?

The children of my cousin who earned a silver cross by carrying two injured black soldiers out of a burning building and in the process was shot and killed himself are supposed to pay you reparations for an incident they had nothing to do with?

All who campaigned for and lobbied and risked their livelihood to end Jim Crow laws so that you didn't have to grow up under them are supposed to pay you restitution for an incident they had nothing to do with?

Those of us who went out of our way to make sure our newly integrated black classmates felt welcome and a sense of safety and belonging are now supposed to pay restitution to those black classmates?

People like you and IM2 who demand that racism be the most important issue discussed in America are entitled to what others have earned just because you are black? How much of what those others have earned--people without a racist bone in their bodies and/or who have never ever participated in any harm to anybody--are you entitled? And why?

Why aren't the progeny of those who lost their fortunes and their lives to win black people their freedom entitled to reparations?

Why are those black people who have become wealthy, even multi-millionaires in this 'racist' country entitled to my meager savings? How much do I owe them? And why?

 

[IM2]

The reason racism won't go away is because people like IM2 and you won't allow it to go away. The reason racism won't go away is because black people are shamed if they 'act white' meaning dressing, speaking, conducting themselves as mainstream Americans. The reason racism won't go away is because of leftists demanding black people see themselves as victims and demanding white people see themselves as innately racist. The reason racism won't go away because there are too many black and white leaders who profit mightily from racism and aren't about to let that get away from them.

The reason racism won't go away is because whites like you don't stop practicing it. I'm black, did everything you claim we get shamed for and never have been told I was acting white. Therre is nobody telling blacks we are victims. Everything you posted here iis a bunch of racist mumbo jumbo.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

It was Japanese Americans who were interred that received reparation, not all Japanese. If we were going to pay reparations it should have been in 1964 when black people were living who actually suffered under Jim Crow laws but even then it would have been almost impossible to determine conclusively who suffered actual damages and who did not. All did not.

Now 60 years after the fact, the idea that all black people have been harmed by Jim Crow laws and are entitled to reparations is so stupid I don't even know where to begin. It is the most blatant form of pandering by a corrupt political party and should be unacceptable to every American regardless of skin color.

What about all of the Black people who died and/or had their lives, homes and businesses destroyed or burned to the ground during the Tulsa race riots in 1921. That was during Jim Crow, hell the insurance company refused to pay any of the claims and the banks refused to as well because the white supremacist powers-that-be decided that a [white race] "riot" was not a coverable event.

 

[Coyote]

No, you will never have a color blind society when advertising models are picked based on skin color - which is what is happening. Otherwise, it is a statistical impossibility for 20 ads to ALL have 20 blacks when they are 14% of the population and NO whites when they are 70% of the population.

Businesses use marketing strategies that will best increase their consumer base. When you ignore that and focus exclusively on racial proportions you think are being represented, you are not being color blind.

Pointing out the race-based hiring decisions is NOT what is causing problems. The problem is that there IS such race-based decisions. You honestly think the Harvard president would have been selected if she were white? The WH Press Secretary? The VP? All are woefully under qualified and got their jobs because of their skin color.

IF indeed they are race based. If you assume a black hire is race and unqualified otherwise, then that too is not “color blind”.

Why do you think the Harvard president is unqualified? Her statement indicates nothing about her qualifications.

Why do you think the WH press Secretary is unqualified?

The VP, yes she was picked because she was Black. Just like Pence was picked because he a White evangelical. VP’s are never picked for “qualifications”, the are picked for their ability to bring a certain demographic to the ticket or balance the top of the ticket.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

And that entitles you to reparations why?

That's a conclusion you drew, not something that I stated.

You all keep claiming that Jim Crow was a long time ago and not all that bad, I'm just showing how lawful racial discrimination and violence has negatively impacted members of my own family. I'm not the only one.