Zone1 Broad-brush reparations to all blacks is unconstituional

[JoeB131]

Honestly Joe you sincerely need a remedial reading comprehension course.

No, you need to learn how to convey ideas without babbling.

I actually get paid for my writing.

 

[Lisa558]

Honestly Joe you sincerely need a remedial reading comprehension course.

I put him back on ignore. He’s an antisemite who accuses other people of racism. Your typical hypocritical leftist.

 

[Foxfyre]

1) The only fair way to do this is for the descendants of slave locate the descendants of slave owners and get direct reparations from them. To simplify the process, the government could mandate the amount…. say, $5000 per slave. The government could legislate that of the amount is too much for the family as a lump sum, they could make $500 monthly payments for 10 months, or $250 for 20 months.

2) This idea that whites who had nothing to do with it aren’t going to have to pay because “the government pays” is the typical Democrat thinking, as you point out: it doesnt cost anyone anything because the government will pay!

3) Finally, the tactic of blacktivists and their supporters screeching “racist!!!” at white people who don’t want to go along with this white-to-black money redistribution scheme will make it even less likely that reparations will be awarded at all.

Those descendants had nothing to do with slavery, however, and it is 99.999999% probable they have never and would never condone slavery in any form or fashion. My children should never be held liable for my crime, should I commit one, when they had no involvement or even any knowledge that it was being committed

The reason that reparations are illogical and unconscionable now is because no black American living now was ever a slave or child of a slave in America. There is no way to demonstrate damages or hold anyone accountable who was responsible for slavery 159 years later. Similarly there are so few persons living now who can demonstrate damages from Jim Crow laws, paying people just because they are black makes no sense whatsoever. I won't quibble if the very few who can show damages from Jim Crow laws receive some restitution for that, but we are talking about a very few individuals 60 years after the fact and even that could set an unfortunate precedent and open a Pandora's box for the future.

The government has done all it can do to eliminate bad laws and initiate legal liberty, options, opportunity for all citizens. The government does not impose any unnecessary rules, regulations, laws, policy that prohibits anyone from taking advantage of liberty, options, opportunity for all citizens.

Those who have grievances of racism against any individual or entity have legal means to petition for redress of those grievances. But unless they are among the very few people directly physically or materially harmed by Jim Crow laws, they have no justification to demand reparations from the rest of us who had nothing whatsoever to do with their situation.

 

[JoeB131]

I put him back on ignore. He’s an antisemite who accuses other people of racism. Your typical hypocritical leftist.

Is this like the 47th time you've put me on ignore... it seems like you just can't quit me, Lisa.

 

[JoeB131]

Because Foxy doesn't think I am reading all her ramblings.

Those descendants had nothing to do with slavery, however, and it is 99.999999% probable they have never and would never condone slavery in any form or fashion. My children should never be held liable for my crime, should I commit one, when they had no involvement or even any knowledge that it was being committed

You miss the point entirely. It's not that the descendants had anything to do with slavery; it's that they have benefited from the results. Or do use an analogy, I didn't kill the Cow, but I enjoyed the hamburger.

The reason that reparations are illogical and unconscionable now is because no black American living now was ever a slave or child of a slave in America. There is no way to demonstrate damages or hold anyone accountable who was responsible for slavery 159 years later. Similarly there are so few persons living now who can demonstrate damages from Jim Crow laws, paying people just because they are black makes no sense whatsoever. I won't quibble if the very few who can show damages should receive some restitution for that, but we are talking about a very few individuals 60 years after the fact.

Actually, slavery in the form of Debt Peonage, continued in this country until 1942. The problem is that the damage is generational. No, no one today had to pick cotton for no money or had to ride on the back of the bus, but the effect of generations of institutionalized racism can be seen in this society.

The government has done all it can do to eliminate bad laws and initiate legal liberty, options, opportunity for all citizens. The government does not impose any unnecessary rules, regulations, laws, policy that prohibits anyone from taking advantage of liberty, options, opportunity for all citizens.

Except the government hasn't done all it can do. Nowhere near, as a matter of fact. And frankly, it's not the existence of the rules, it's the application. A cop can pull you over for any pretense, but how they treat black people and how they treat white people during traffic stops is the difference between night and day.

Those who have grievances of racism against any individual or entity have legal means to petition for redress of those grievances. But unless they are among the very few people directly physically or materially harmed by Jim Crow laws, they have no right to demand reparations from the rest of us who had nothing whatsoever to do with their situation.

Again, every black person is effected by the racial inequities of this country.
And every white person has benefited from them.

 

[Foxfyre]

I am not a Democrat.

My view is this. We pay into the government for services we feel it needs to provide the people. Where we disagree is what those services should be and how to prioritize them. There are a lot of things I don’t want to pay for, but I have to. The two parties, when they are working and not all mucked up, balance each other between fiscal restraint and social responsibility.



Why do you say “entitled”? We pay for services that we, through our elected representives decide are important or necessary. Because we have a democratic form of government, we have to compromise with other groups whose priorities differ. For example, why are religious private schools “entitled” to my money? Why was my money used to fund a war in Iraq?



The government (federal and state) has paid restitution/reparations before, there is quite a long list.

I don’t recall any big objections like this.

If you aren't a Democrat, I have never seen a post of your criticizing their policies or actions in any way and you are quick to defend them when others criticize them. You generally defend all or part of every progressive 'woke' initiative. But if you say you aren't a Democrat I'll accept that.

The reason there are objections to reparations for slavery is because of people who demand to be paid for no other reason than they have black skin. I don't know how any honorable person justifies that or can in good conscience defend that.

 

[Lisa558]

Those descendants had nothing to do with slavery, however, and it is 99.999999% probable they have never and would never condone slavery in any form or fashion. My children should never be held liable for my crime, should I commit one, when they had no involvement or even any knowledge that it was being committed

The reason that reparations are illogical and unconscionable now is because no black American living now was ever a slave or child of a slave in America. There is no way to demonstrate damages or hold anyone accountable who was responsible for slavery 159 years later. Similarly there are so few persons living now who can demonstrate damages from Jim Crow laws, paying people just because they are black makes no sense whatsoever. I won't quibble if the very few who can show damages should receive some restitution for that, but we are talking about a very few individuals 60 years after the fact.

The government has done all it can do to eliminate bad laws and initiate legal liberty, options, opportunity for all citizens. The government does not impose any unnecessary rules, regulations, laws, policy that prohibits anyone from taking advantage of liberty, options, opportunity for all citizens.

Those who have grievances of racism against any individual or entity have legal means to petition for redress of those grievances. But unless they are among the very few people directly physically or materially harmed by Jim Crow laws, they have no right to demand reparations from the rest of us who had nothing whatsoever to do with their situation.

True, but you see how these blacktivists are acting: they’re saying that any black alive in 1965 or earlier gets reparations regardless of the degree, if any, he was subjected to Jim Crowe laws.

I gave as an example the blacks in my parents’ colleges in the 40s and 50s in New York who, like my parents, had the government pay for their very excellent college education. These same blacks went to the public high school with my parents, sat in the same movie theaters as my parents, etc.

I asked why these blacks, who went on to live successful lives thanks to the generosity of government programs, and who then had children who likely gained by Affirmative Action, should get reparations since they didn’t live under Jim Crowe laws. The answer came back that IF they went down South, they were.

IOW, the leftists are making ridiculous demands, and even comparing the indignity of Jim Crowe to the horror of the Holocaust. So my proposal was a compromise.

 

[Foxfyre]

True, but you see how these blacktivists are acting: they’re saying that any black alive in 1965 or earlier gets reparations regardless of the degree, if any, he was subjected to Jim Crowe laws.

I gave as an example the blacks in my parents’ colleges in the 40s and 50s in New York who, like my parents, had the government pay for their very excellent college education. These same blacks went to the public high school with my parents, sat in the same movie theaters as my parents, etc.

I asked why these blacks, who went on to live successful lives thanks to the generosity of government programs, and who then had children who likely gained by Affirmative Action, should get reparations since they didn’t live under Jim Crowe laws. The answer came back that IF they went down South, they were.

IOW, the leftists are making ridiculous demands, and even comparing the indignity of Jim Crowe to the horror of the Holocaust. So my proposal was a compromise.

I understand but be careful that your 'compromise' doesn't include tipping over that barrel full of worms or opening a whole new ugly Pandora's box. There are some important principles at stake here and if we once again just throw money at an issue instead of considering the long range consequences of that, we can create far more problems than we make go away.

 

[Lisa558]

I understand but be careful that your 'compromise' doesn't include tipping over that barrel full of worms or opening a whole new ugly Pandora's box. There are some important principles at stake here and if we once again just throw money at an issue instead of considering the long range consequences of that, we can create far more problems than we make go away.

It’s all an academic argument as to what might be fair. None of it will ever happen in our lifetimes. The majority of taxpayers don’t want it, and any politician who promises it will be kicked to the curb. All that will happen is that the blacktivists who demand it, and call anyone who disagrees with a broad-based handout based on skin color a racist, will engender more racism.

 

[el midgetron]

The Holocaust was legal in Nazi Germany, but that doesn't stop the Jews from whining about it 80 years later.

Slavery and Jim Crow DID happen in this country. Blacks didn't ask for that to happen to them.

Slavery and Jim Crow were also both “legal” in the US.

 

[JoeB131]

Slavery and Jim Crow were also both “legal” in the US.

Which is why the government owes black people reparations.

See, that was simple.

 

[IM2]

I haven't stolen from anybody. You have no idea how hard we worked, how much we risked, how much we sacrificed to have what we have and I can assure you we have never taken a dime that was not obtained ethically and honestly. I have never felt entitled to anything of yours and have not demanded anything from you or the government for that matter.

You are the one accusing me of being racist and demanding that you be paid money for having black skin. So how much of my money are you entitled? And why do you think you are entitled to have it?

How much more of my money do you want to steal and why do you feel entitled to it? That's what has been done to us as black people. You don't like that question being asked of you but you think you are entitled too ask me how much of your money that I think I am entitled to.

You don't seem to be aware of the many things whites have been gven that was paid for by our labor or our tax money that we didn't get.



It's time whites such as you, Lisa and a lot of others here stopped being disingenuous. Lisa started this thread. She is neither a lawyer or constitutional expert. Reparations happen because equal protection didn't happen. And blacks aren't asking for money because we are black. Simple minded commentary people like you use to argue doesn't cut it here. So if you're like Lisa, who ignores the fact that her family got reparations from Germany and U.S. government benefits then lectures blacks on how we shouuld do things like Jews, go back and read about the policies the U.S government at every level used and still use that provides advantages for whiites. Stop asking questions that when you get shown answers to you deny. Study this for youurself and if that's not somethiing you want to do, then the discussion is done.

 

[el midgetron]

I generally think there is a decent argument for reparations to those who actually lived under Jim Crow. The slavery ship has sailed though. Nobody is due compensation for what their great great grand parents experienced.

 

[IM2]

If you aren't a Democrat, I have never seen a post of your criticizing their policies or actions in any way and you are quick to defend them when others criticize them. You generally defend all or part of every progressive 'woke' initiative. But if you say you aren't a Democrat I'll accept that.

The reason there are objections to reparations for slavery is because of people who demand to be paid for no other reason than they have black skin. I don't know how any honorable person justifies that or can in good conscience defend that.

Tthere is no reason to object to reparations but ppure racist hatred. You show this with your continued claim that ppeopple are askiing for repparations because we have black skin. Wwe are asking for reparations foor a coontiinuing pattern of government human riights violations agasinst blacks that as of tomorrow will start moving in on 248 years.

Whites have been given all kinds of thiings just because they are whiite. You liie if you say that's not so, or that is is only something that happened in the past.

 

[Foxfyre]

How much more of my money do you want to steal and why do you feel entitled to it? That's what has been done to us as black people. You don't like that question being asked of you but you think you are entitled too ask me how much of your money that I think I am entitled to.

You don't seem to be aware of the many things whites have been gven that was paid for by our labor or our tax money that we didn't get.



It's time whites such as you, Lisa and a lot of others here stopped being disingenuous. Lisa started this thread. She is neither a lawyer or constitutional expert. Reparations happen because equal protection didn't happen. And blacks aren't asking for money because we are black. Simple minded commentary people like you use to argue doesn't cut it here. So if you're like Lisa, who ignores the fact that her family got reparations from Germany and U.S. government benefits then lectures blacks on how we shouuld do things like Jews, go back and read about the policies the U.S government at every level used and still use that provides advantages for whiites. Stop asking questions that when you get shown answers to you deny. Study this for youurself and if that's not somethiing you want to do, then the discussion is done.

No Jew got reparations in Germany who did not suffer direct physical/material damages due to actions of the German government. You do want compensation because you are black by virtue of the fact that you contend all black people have direct damages due to racism. I have asked you time and again to demonstrate what damages you have suffered due to my actions. You refuse to do it but accuse me of stealing your money. I have asked you how it is reasonable for you to get paid with my money for something I had absolutely nothing to do with.

I have asked you how much of my money you are entitled to and why you are entitled to it. Your response is I steal your money. Your response is not only disingenuous but dishonest.

l'm sorry but you have zero credibility in your arguments for this issue. Until you are willing to be intellectually honest, you will continue to have zero credibility on this issue.

Do have a pleasant day.

 

[IM2]

I understand but be careful that your 'compromise' doesn't include tipping over that barrel full of worms or opening a whole new ugly Pandora's box. There are some important principles at stake here and if we once again just throw money at an issue instead of considering the long range consequences of that, we can create far more problems than we make go away.

The only principle here is your racism. Money has beeen thrown at whites.

What was the long term consequences of that?

A bunch of whites lecturing everyone else about how successful they have been.

 

[Foxfyre]

The only principle here is your racism. Money has beeen thrown at whites.

What was the long term consequences of that?

A bunch of whites lecturing everyone else about how successful they have been.

Until you are willing to be intellectually honest you have no credibility in this argument.

 

[el midgetron]

How much more of my money do you want to steal and why do you feel entitled to it?

I feel the same way about a lot of welfare recipients, regardless of color. Why are there able bodied people receiving compensation from the government that I am not also entitled to? Any reparations pay to the African American community should calculate in their over-representation as welfare recipients.

 

[Lisa558]

How much more of my money do you want to steal and why do you feel entitled to it? That's what has been done to us as black people. You don't like that question being asked of you but you think you are entitled too ask me how much of your money that I think I am entitled to.

You don't seem to be aware of the many things whites have been gven that was paid for by our labor or our tax money that we didn't get.



It's time whites such as you, Lisa and a lot of others here stopped being disingenuous. Lisa started this thread. She is neither a lawyer or constitutional expert. Reparations happen because equal protection didn't happen. And blacks aren't asking for money because we are black. Simple minded commentary people like you use to argue doesn't cut it here. So if you're like Lisa, who ignores the fact that her family got reparations from Germany and U.S. government benefits then lectures blacks on how we shouuld do things like Jews, go back and read about the policies the U.S government at every level used and still use that provides advantages for whiites. Stop asking questions that when you get shown answers to you deny. Study this for youurself and if that's not somethiing you want to do, then the discussion is done.

ONE member of my sort-of family - a man who married my grandmother when I was in my teens in the 1970s and lived only about five years after that - got a piddly reparations for having to subsist on vegetation and insects for TWO years while he fought with the partisans, and lost his first wife and son to Hitler. He survived, but barely, and suffered lifelong and severe physical problems as a result. How DARE you compare his suffering and loss to Jim Crowe!!

The rest of my family, on both sides, didn’t receive a penny, even thought the loss was great on both sides. No, my parents moved from the tenement slums to the middle-class suburbs in the span of 10 years due to their drive, discipline, intelligence, and good values - the SAME as the blacks in their class.

You aren’t doing blacks any favor by pretending that Jews, in the midst of the Holocaust and not knowing if their relatives were dead or alive, became successful due to reparations. They became successful for the traits I listed above.

 

[Lisa558]

Until you are willing to be intellectually honest you have no credibility in this argument.

He also is peddling the lie that Jews all received reparations. Nobody I grew up with did, nor their parents. But they, the parents, were all the children of poor immigrants fleeing antisemitism and managed to move from abject poverty to downright affluence by virtue of their own qualities, abilities, and choices.

IM2’s resentment of Jews for succeeding despite horrific bigotry isn’t helping him any.