Building the wall is the most critical political issue in America, we must do it

[LoneLaugher]

I voted third party in every election since 1996, will continue that trend in 2020.

We do not need a wall, building a wall is moving backwards, not forwards. Trump wants a wall because he wants a viable, physical monument to his greatness and a wall is the only way he will get one.

According to Trump himself border crossings are down 80%, and that is without a wall and without a significant increase in the Border Patrol.

The wall is an expense we do not have the money to pay for and it will just become a bigger and bigger expense each year as the maintenance cost on it grow with time and age of the wall.

If you wish to control our southern border to keep the evil brown people out there are three easy steps to do it.

First, use our military for its base purpose, to defend the country. We have roughly 97,000 troops in Europe. Bring half of them home and station them along the border and give them the task of protecting the border.

Second, punish harshly those companies in the US that employ illegal immigrants. Make an example out of a couple of bigger companies and make it so painful that no other company will take the chance of using illegal immigrants as labor.

Third, have a real guest worker program so that those industries that do rely on cheaper labor (agricultural comes to mind) have access to those willing to work.

If you do the 2nd and 3rd thing then the only people trying to sneak across the border are people with ill intent and then they become easy targets for the military guarding the border.

On a side note, wanting to build a wall to keep the non-whites is about the most anti-libertarian thing I have seen in a long time. Thank you for dropping the charade.

How doesn’t the wall pay for itself over time?
You must be doing different math than we are...would you mind walking us through your arithmetic?

When you spend twenty billion bucks, plus future maintenance which is considerable, on a fantasy wall that ignores the reality of where illicit immigration comes from in the first place and therefore has little effect --- where exactly is your ROI on that?

Remember the mantra: "You don't sell products, benefits or solutions ---- you sell FEELINGS". That's what the wall is. It's already been sold, and you lot bought it. The wall isn't an actual wall, it's a fantasy sold to the gullible And Mexico didn't pay for it -- the rest of us in this country did.

A million Mexicans walk up to a reinforced concrete 30 foot wall dug down into the ground.

They laugh and say wow, that might as well not be there at all!

Then they proceed to ___ and the million illegal aliens enter the United States ...

You fill in the blank

Buy plane tickets. Go around the wall. Enter through a border check point.

To buy a plane ticket they have to have a Visa. Sure, some could get here that way, but nowhere near a million. And seriously, border check points? They don't check ID? Of course they do.

We need to close off the Visa overstay, but obviously you have not proposed how anywhere near a million will get through the wall that way

The wall won't stop anyone. Especially since it won't be built.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The vote itself isn't surprising because while leftists on the board are louder, there are fewer of them. What is interesting is how few of us are changing our votes. Again, I asked for best guess, meaning on information known now.

Not Trump (2016) to Trump (2020). Two. Pumpkin Row and me and we're both serious posters.

Trump to (2016) to not Trump (2016). One. Sealybo claimed this, but he's obviously lying as he's 100% true blue Democrat. That's why I make people identify themselves. Flewism, who I don't know also said this. Since I don't know him/her I'll take them at face value.

Not seeing the blue wave here ...

You didn’t really think anyone on a political forum was going to change their mind, did you?

You would have better luck with that on a religious forum


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[LoneLaugher]

The vote itself isn't surprising because while leftists on the board are louder, there are fewer of them. What is interesting is how few of us are changing our votes. Again, I asked for best guess, meaning on information known now.

Not Trump (2016) to Trump (2020). Two. Pumpkin Row and me and we're both serious posters.

Trump to (2016) to not Trump (2016). One. Sealybo claimed this, but he's obviously lying as he's 100% true blue Democrat. That's why I make people identify themselves. Flewism, who I don't know also said this. Since I don't know him/her I'll take them at face value.

Not seeing the blue wave here ...

You and Pumpkin are serious posters? That's so cool.

 

[kaz]

Some bigot like you said the same thing about the Irish 150 years ago.

And the Germans 100 years ago.

And the Poles 50 years ago.

Yes, the right wing cares about the freedom of rich people to exploit working folks.

We are against the wall because it's a waste of money and it presents an ugly image of our country. (Most undocumented workers actually entered the country legally or through another route.)

Yeah, um.... funny thing about that.. the blacks have been waiting a lot longer than the Hispanics have...

Okay, here's the real problem you guys have. You've spent the last few decades scaring white people into voting against their own economic interests by telling them the Darkies are out to get them.... which worked fine up until the 1980's, but really doesn't work now because there are too many of them, and some white people aren't really comfortable with racism.

The ironic thing is, Hispanics SHOULD be a conservative block now. religious, hard working and pro-family. They'll probably drag the Democrats closer to the center. But you guys have so thoroughly alienated them you've probably lost them for generations.

Wanting an end to illegal immigration is not racist. The Wall is a racist euphemism for Mexicans. And illegal immigration for Mexico has already lessened. I'm all for deporting illegal immigrants and splitting up families and doing all kinds of unpleasant things to them ... legally. They need to be dissuaded.

That's because you don't understand that we need them for our economy to flourish....and that is the best possible scenario.

The best possible scenario is to stop the illegal immigration of poor people and bring better educated normal people from those same countries instead. We make it simple to come here illegally and very difficult to do it legally. That is what is stupid, and it's your policy.

Of course your real goal is a voter registration drive and middle class won't be virtually exclusively Democrat like the poor people you want are.

ummmm, I think it is NOT in our interest to close off all immigration of low skilled people from hellish situations. We can't take everybody, but I think we should be seen as compassionate. It helps counter the narratives of those who wish us harm, because "they hate our freedoms."
And helping silicon valley lower wages with HBI is not in out interest.

Not to mention that there are many high labor agricultural operations that are always in need of laborers.

And we have millions of unemployed who won't do those jobs as long as wages are artificially driven down by illegal aliens who will work for low wages.

But too many of the Americans are black, which is a problem for you, grand wizard

 

[kaz]

OK, so it was your twisting what I said, you dishonest piece of crap.

kaz: "Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful"

You said I only want "non-whites" here. You're the liar.

I said I want NORMAL Hispanics. Not poor Hispanics because Hispanics are as I said "like all other Americans." The poor ones are owned by Democrats and vote for them.

And you think you were honest??? You can't be serious.

I'll tell you what. Let's take all the poor white Americans and trade them for middle class Mexicans. I'll take that deal in a heart beat. Will you?

So, now in your world poor people are not normal? really that is where you want to go to now? So, you are not only a racist you are an classist as well.

More and more about you just keeps coming out with every post. By all means do not stop.

For most people, poor is a choice. They don't work for an education, they don't work at their jobs, they just accept their lot in life and make choices that keep them poor.

Unlike you, I don't tie that to race. Race is irrelevant. And there are plenty of poor white people, Grand Wizard

They are all races, but they are not NORMAL in your view.

There is something wrong with them, yes. There is no reason to be poor in this country. It's within the power of every American who does not have mental issues to not be poor.

And the majority of those people are white, grand wizard

 

[LoneLaugher]

Instead of penalizing corporations who hire low wage immigrants ( documented or not ) you want the boss to build a wall that won't keep anyone out.

Good head on those shoulders.

 

[LoneLaugher]

OK, so it was your twisting what I said, you dishonest piece of crap.

kaz: "Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful"

You said I only want "non-whites" here. You're the liar.

I said I want NORMAL Hispanics. Not poor Hispanics because Hispanics are as I said "like all other Americans." The poor ones are owned by Democrats and vote for them.

And you think you were honest??? You can't be serious.

I'll tell you what. Let's take all the poor white Americans and trade them for middle class Mexicans. I'll take that deal in a heart beat. Will you?

So, now in your world poor people are not normal? really that is where you want to go to now? So, you are not only a racist you are an classist as well.

More and more about you just keeps coming out with every post. By all means do not stop.

For most people, poor is a choice. They don't work for an education, they don't work at their jobs, they just accept their lot in life and make choices that keep them poor.

Unlike you, I don't tie that to race. Race is irrelevant. And there are plenty of poor white people, Grand Wizard

They are all races, but they are not NORMAL in your view.

There is something wrong with them, yes. There is no reason to be poor in this country. It's within the power of every American who does not have mental issues to not be poor.

And the majority of those people are white, grand wizard

Sure it is.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And we have millions of unemployed who won't do those jobs as long as wages are artificially driven down by illegal aliens who will work for low wages.

But too many of the Americans are black, which is a problem for you, grand wizard

You are so damn cute...

I call you out for being dishonest, so you start to call me dishonest.

I call you out for singling out hispanics in your OP and now you call me a racist.

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so I guess I should feel honored.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And we have millions of unemployed who won't do those jobs as long as wages are artificially driven down by illegal aliens who will work for low wages.

Three problems with your statement.

First, most of those unemployed do not live where the labor is needed.

Second, the wages are not artificially driven down, they are set by the companies doing the hiring. And you have no plan or desire to go after them so it will never stop, wall or no wall.

Third, the American people would not stand for the price of their producing tripling due to extra labor cost, there would be riots in the streets if that happened.

 

[kaz]

View attachment 183890

You're just swilling the kool-aid. Careful, that stuff will kill you

 

[Harpy Eagle]

There is something wrong with them, yes. There is no reason to be poor in this country. It's within the power of every American who does not have mental issues to not be poor.

And the majority of those people are white, grand wizard

Actually, it really is not. The system is designed to keep most people in the class they were born into and allow a few to break through to the next level to keep the peasants like you happy.

 

[kaz]

I don't see any evidence of you being a racist in this thread, btw.

Yeah, I don't hate my wife and kids, LOL.

Democrats have a failed, irrational, illogical ideology. That's why they can only argue hate

 

[kaz]

How doesn’t the wall pay for itself over time?
You must be doing different math than we are...would you mind walking us through your arithmetic?

When you spend twenty billion bucks, plus future maintenance which is considerable, on a fantasy wall that ignores the reality of where illicit immigration comes from in the first place and therefore has little effect --- where exactly is your ROI on that?

Remember the mantra: "You don't sell products, benefits or solutions ---- you sell FEELINGS". That's what the wall is. It's already been sold, and you lot bought it. The wall isn't an actual wall, it's a fantasy sold to the gullible And Mexico didn't pay for it -- the rest of us in this country did.

A million Mexicans walk up to a reinforced concrete 30 foot wall dug down into the ground.

They laugh and say wow, that might as well not be there at all!

Then they proceed to ___ and the million illegal aliens enter the United States ...

You fill in the blank

Buy plane tickets. Go around the wall. Enter through a border check point.

To buy a plane ticket they have to have a Visa. Sure, some could get here that way, but nowhere near a million. And seriously, border check points? They don't check ID? Of course they do.

We need to close off the Visa overstay, but obviously you have not proposed how anywhere near a million will get through the wall that way

The wall won't stop anyone. Especially since it won't be built.

That's why leftists are laying yourself on the ground to stop it.



You know that's the only way it won't be built, and you know it will work if it is. It would be the end of the Democrat party as we know it. Your entire farm system will be obliterated.

So once that happens, are you going to try to get the blue Americans you've been spitting on back?

 

[kaz]

The vote itself isn't surprising because while leftists on the board are louder, there are fewer of them. What is interesting is how few of us are changing our votes. Again, I asked for best guess, meaning on information known now.

Not Trump (2016) to Trump (2020). Two. Pumpkin Row and me and we're both serious posters.

Trump to (2016) to not Trump (2016). One. Sealybo claimed this, but he's obviously lying as he's 100% true blue Democrat. That's why I make people identify themselves. Flewism, who I don't know also said this. Since I don't know him/her I'll take them at face value.

Not seeing the blue wave here ...

You didn’t really think anyone on a political forum was going to change their mind, did you?

You would have better luck with that on a religious forum


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Cool. You have anything on what I said?

 

[kaz]

The vote itself isn't surprising because while leftists on the board are louder, there are fewer of them. What is interesting is how few of us are changing our votes. Again, I asked for best guess, meaning on information known now.

Not Trump (2016) to Trump (2020). Two. Pumpkin Row and me and we're both serious posters.

Trump to (2016) to not Trump (2016). One. Sealybo claimed this, but he's obviously lying as he's 100% true blue Democrat. That's why I make people identify themselves. Flewism, who I don't know also said this. Since I don't know him/her I'll take them at face value.

Not seeing the blue wave here ...

You and Pumpkin are serious posters? That's so cool.

Yes, we are. Thanks man

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The vote itself isn't surprising because while leftists on the board are louder, there are fewer of them. What is interesting is how few of us are changing our votes. Again, I asked for best guess, meaning on information known now.

Not Trump (2016) to Trump (2020). Two. Pumpkin Row and me and we're both serious posters.

Trump to (2016) to not Trump (2016). One. Sealybo claimed this, but he's obviously lying as he's 100% true blue Democrat. That's why I make people identify themselves. Flewism, who I don't know also said this. Since I don't know him/her I'll take them at face value.

Not seeing the blue wave here ...

You didn’t really think anyone on a political forum was going to change their mind, did you?

You would have better luck with that on a religious forum


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Cool. You have anything on what I said?

You didn’t say anything other than nobody has changed, and you seemed shocked by that. Which made me laugh at loud at you


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[kaz]

OK, so it was your twisting what I said, you dishonest piece of crap.

kaz: "Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful"

You said I only want "non-whites" here. You're the liar.

I said I want NORMAL Hispanics. Not poor Hispanics because Hispanics are as I said "like all other Americans." The poor ones are owned by Democrats and vote for them.

And you think you were honest??? You can't be serious.

I'll tell you what. Let's take all the poor white Americans and trade them for middle class Mexicans. I'll take that deal in a heart beat. Will you?

So, now in your world poor people are not normal? really that is where you want to go to now? So, you are not only a racist you are an classist as well.

More and more about you just keeps coming out with every post. By all means do not stop.

For most people, poor is a choice. They don't work for an education, they don't work at their jobs, they just accept their lot in life and make choices that keep them poor.

Unlike you, I don't tie that to race. Race is irrelevant. And there are plenty of poor white people, Grand Wizard

They are all races, but they are not NORMAL in your view.

There is something wrong with them, yes. There is no reason to be poor in this country. It's within the power of every American who does not have mental issues to not be poor.

And the majority of those people are white, grand wizard

Sure it is.

Yup. Anyone who studies in school can go to college. Anyone who cleans themselves up and works hard at work can keep getting better jobs. Being poor in this country is a choice that you make through poor decisions to keep yourself poor

 

[kaz]

And we have millions of unemployed who won't do those jobs as long as wages are artificially driven down by illegal aliens who will work for low wages.

But too many of the Americans are black, which is a problem for you, grand wizard

You are so damn cute...

I call you out for being dishonest, so you start to call me dishonest.

I call you out for singling out hispanics in your OP and now you call me a racist.

They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so I guess I should feel honored.

Once again, gator, what you just said, right back at you! LOL. It's all you have. Even when I say that

 

[emilynghiem]

In the end, if we don't build the wall, the Democrats will smother us. They have already flipped California and New Mexico into solid blue States. Illegal voters have turned Nevada light blue. And they have turned Texas and Arizona from solid to light red.

The issue of illegal immigration has been an endless game of kick the can for decades. But this is it. The authoritarian leftist Democrat party is on the verge of a stranglehold on the country and the end of our freedom. That's why the Democrats fight so hysterically against the wall. They don't think it won't work, they know it will.

The reason this is THE issue is that for that reason, every other issue is dependent on the wall. If we don't build the wall, then Texas will eventually flip and with that alone we're done. Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful. But that takes time and a million illegals coming here a year floods that.

I didn't vote for Trump last time for two main reasons. First, I'm a capitalist and he isn't. Free trade is the beating heart of capitalism. Second, he has been a pig to women. Unlike Democrats who voted twice for a sexual predator and again for his hoe who attacked his victims again, that does matter to me.

But now it's down to this. We must end the endless flow now. And for me, my decision of whether I will vote for him comes down to this. Build the wall and I'll vote for him. Don't, and I won't. I can't imagine what would make me flip from that. This is THE political question in our country. We must build the wall, and build it now.

I voted that I did not vote for 2016 but I will in 2020 because I believe/hope he'll actually do it.

Please explain your vote if you voted you will change your vote regarding Trump either way.

I am guessing I'd vote for Trump again in 2020 because change is so slow.
But if it were to happen by 2020 that all the candidates of all parties work together
to build military bases, teaching hospitals, production facilities, campus towns and service centers
across the border, as a multi-party multi-state multi-national solution to trafficking and border crimes,
then a different set of candidates might be running by then.

If the parties cannot get their act together, Trump may still be the bull dog yelling that this bipartisan mess isn't working.
I thought he could use his business connections and media strategies to CREATE JOBS FOR ALL PARTY LEADERS
arguing they have a solution. Oh yeah? then PROVE it. Use your party platforms and outreach to BUILD that solution
and then use that to run for office instead of empty campaigns and donations wasted on rhetoric. Raise and invest
donations and create jobs in building sustainable communities and programs along the border.

That's what we are going to need.

More than just a wall.

But a whole series of city states for all these populations to manage their own demands
by owning their own property and programs so the workers and residents learn self-government.
That's how Texas was settled, that's how America was founded, by people building and owning it themselves.

www.earnedamnesty.org

How many jobs and schools for "Dreamers" could Trump create by working WITH all the other
party leaders and States instead of fighting and wasting resources while these problems continue to kill people and budgets?

Whoever can unite the people, parties and states to work together,
that's what is going to decide WHICH people and WHICH parties hold WHICH offices.

I'd put all the parties in charge of different areas,
and create enough jobs fixing economic and social problems
by delegating these instead of fighting to control everything.

Greens can supervise jobs and education in environmental corrections and restoration
needed in CA, the Gulf and other areas destroyed by man made pollution and development.

Democrats can take on prison reform to finance health care, and set up
schools and teaching hospitals for inmate and immigrants to work jobs
providing public health care and prevention of mental and criminal ills behind drug addiction, gun violence, and other crimes.

Republicans can reform the VA and create jobs for Vets in border security,
running the Post Office and keeping the Internet free of criminal abuses,
and training communities in law enforcement, gun safety, etc for effective security.

Libertarians can set up and manage a grievance system by party precinct and Electoral District,
to check abuses of govt at every level, by taking and addressing complaints of abuse and
conflicts of interest, violations of due process or obstruction of justice, and assessing
the cost of debts and damages so that taxpayers can collect restitution or credits for govt abuses.

This would create enough jobs to fix the problems that politics has cost this country.

And the restitution for the past wrongs can be charged back to the wrongdoers,
so taxpayers receive CREDIT and restitution, and are not burdened with debts
from damages caused by the crimes and violations of others. Between the Greens
who developed a system of independent currency based on labor, and the Libertarians
arguing for Federal Reserve reform, every state can set up its own Federal Reserve
type currency system to assess past debts and credit back Taxpayers for wrongful
abuses and charges, then use that credit to finance reforms and sustainable programs
to replace govt bureaucracy and failures. Taxpayers and investors who lend money
to govt or states to finance these reforms against past debts can claim shares of
ownership in the programs or property, so people are REWARDED not punished.

We need to take back the country from corrupt abuses charged to taxpayers
not represented by debts and damages we didn't authorize.

Instead of Refuse and Resist,
we need to Reclaim, Rebuild and Refinance.

If Trump doesn't lead these teams, let us all lead together.
It takes all of us doing the work if it's going to get done!

 

[kaz]

And we have millions of unemployed who won't do those jobs as long as wages are artificially driven down by illegal aliens who will work for low wages.

Three problems with your statement.

First, most of those unemployed do not live where the labor is needed.

Second, the wages are not artificially driven down, they are set by the companies doing the hiring. And you have no plan or desire to go after them so it will never stop, wall or no wall.

Third, the American people would not stand for the price of their producing tripling due to extra labor cost, there would be riots in the streets if that happened.

Mexicans come work for several months in fields. Why wouldn't other people do that if there were better wages? Work a few months and go home. And there are lots of local jobs mowing lawns, cleaning houses, baby sitting everywhere that poor people can use to get started on but won't when wages are artificially low and they get free money for not working.

Normal people: Teach someone to fish and they can eat for life

Democrats: Give them a fish and you have a voter for life