Building the wall is the most critical political issue in America, we must do it

[kaz]

In the end, if we don't build the wall, the Democrats will smother us. They have already flipped California and New Mexico into solid blue States. Illegal voters have turned Nevada light blue. And they have turned Texas and Arizona from solid to light red.

Some bigot like you said the same thing about the Irish 150 years ago.

And the Germans 100 years ago.

And the Poles 50 years ago.

The issue of illegal immigration has been an endless game of kick the can for decades. But this is it. The authoritarian leftist Democrat party is on the verge of a stranglehold on the country and the end of our freedom. That's why the Democrats fight so hysterically against the wall. They don't think it won't work, they know it will.

Yes, the right wing cares about the freedom of rich people to exploit working folks.

We are against the wall because it's a waste of money and it presents an ugly image of our country. (Most undocumented workers actually entered the country legally or through another route.)

The reason this is THE issue is that for that reason, every other issue is dependent on the wall. If we don't build the wall, then Texas will eventually flip and with that alone we're done. Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful. But that takes time and a million illegals coming here a year floods that.

Yeah, um.... funny thing about that.. the blacks have been waiting a lot longer than the Hispanics have...

Okay, here's the real problem you guys have. You've spent the last few decades scaring white people into voting against their own economic interests by telling them the Darkies are out to get them.... which worked fine up until the 1980's, but really doesn't work now because there are too many of them, and some white people aren't really comfortable with racism.

The ironic thing is, Hispanics SHOULD be a conservative block now. religious, hard working and pro-family. They'll probably drag the Democrats closer to the center. But you guys have so thoroughly alienated them you've probably lost them for generations.

Wanting an end to illegal immigration is not racist. The Wall is a racist euphemism for Mexicans. And illegal immigration for Mexico has already lessened. I'm all for deporting illegal immigrants and splitting up families and doing all kinds of unpleasant things to them ... legally. They need to be dissuaded.

That's because you don't understand that we need them for our economy to flourish....and that is the best possible scenario.

I've never said I was against legal immigration.

To leftists illegal immigration = immigration. So when you say you're against illegal immigration, they hear you're against immigration

 

[kaz]

In the end, if we don't build the wall, the Democrats will smother us. They have already flipped California and New Mexico into solid blue States. Illegal voters have turned Nevada light blue. And they have turned Texas and Arizona from solid to light red.

Some bigot like you said the same thing about the Irish 150 years ago.

And the Germans 100 years ago.

And the Poles 50 years ago.

The issue of illegal immigration has been an endless game of kick the can for decades. But this is it. The authoritarian leftist Democrat party is on the verge of a stranglehold on the country and the end of our freedom. That's why the Democrats fight so hysterically against the wall. They don't think it won't work, they know it will.

Yes, the right wing cares about the freedom of rich people to exploit working folks.

We are against the wall because it's a waste of money and it presents an ugly image of our country. (Most undocumented workers actually entered the country legally or through another route.)

The reason this is THE issue is that for that reason, every other issue is dependent on the wall. If we don't build the wall, then Texas will eventually flip and with that alone we're done. Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful. But that takes time and a million illegals coming here a year floods that.

Yeah, um.... funny thing about that.. the blacks have been waiting a lot longer than the Hispanics have...

Okay, here's the real problem you guys have. You've spent the last few decades scaring white people into voting against their own economic interests by telling them the Darkies are out to get them.... which worked fine up until the 1980's, but really doesn't work now because there are too many of them, and some white people aren't really comfortable with racism.

The ironic thing is, Hispanics SHOULD be a conservative block now. religious, hard working and pro-family. They'll probably drag the Democrats closer to the center. But you guys have so thoroughly alienated them you've probably lost them for generations.

Wanting an end to illegal immigration is not racist. The Wall is a racist euphemism for Mexicans. And illegal immigration for Mexico has already lessened. I'm all for deporting illegal immigrants and splitting up families and doing all kinds of unpleasant things to them ... legally. They need to be dissuaded.

That's because you don't understand that we need them for our economy to flourish....and that is the best possible scenario.

I've never said I was against legal immigration.

You didn't. But taking a severe hard line stance on those who are already here will harm our economy while it
takes a piss on human beings who are only here because we needed them and they wanted a better life.

Not if you export the poor welfare whores and import middle class educated people who are qualified for real jobs

 

[kaz]

In the end, if we don't build the wall, the Democrats will smother us. They have already flipped California and New Mexico into solid blue States. Illegal voters have turned Nevada light blue. And they have turned Texas and Arizona from solid to light red.

The issue of illegal immigration has been an endless game of kick the can for decades. But this is it. The authoritarian leftist Democrat party is on the verge of a stranglehold on the country and the end of our freedom. That's why the Democrats fight so hysterically against the wall. They don't think it won't work, they know it will.

The reason this is THE issue is that for that reason, every other issue is dependent on the wall. If we don't build the wall, then Texas will eventually flip and with that alone we're done. Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful. But that takes time and a million illegals coming here a year floods that.

I didn't vote for Trump last time for two main reasons. First, I'm a capitalist and he isn't. Free trade is the beating heart of capitalism. Second, he has been a pig to women. Unlike Democrats who voted twice for a sexual predator and again for his hoe who attacked his victims again, that does matter to me.

But now it's down to this. We must end the endless flow now. And for me, my decision of whether I will vote for him comes down to this. Build the wall and I'll vote for him. Don't, and I won't. I can't imagine what would make me flip from that. This is THE political question in our country. We must build the wall, and build it now.

I voted that I did not vote for 2016 but I will in 2020 because I believe/hope he'll actually do it.

Please explain your vote if you voted you will change your vote regarding Trump either way.

You didn’t vote? Then I’ve lost all respect for you loser.

I voted for Gary Johnson, liar. I never said I didn't vote.

And you are why I make people identify themselves. You're a leftist socialist and you claim to have voted for Trump. What a load

Did I rig your results?

No, but you're obviously dishonest as you do nothing but argue for Democrats and Democrat policies all day long

 

[bendog]

In the end, if we don't build the wall, the Democrats will smother us. They have already flipped California and New Mexico into solid blue States. Illegal voters have turned Nevada light blue. And they have turned Texas and Arizona from solid to light red.

Some bigot like you said the same thing about the Irish 150 years ago.

And the Germans 100 years ago.

And the Poles 50 years ago.

The issue of illegal immigration has been an endless game of kick the can for decades. But this is it. The authoritarian leftist Democrat party is on the verge of a stranglehold on the country and the end of our freedom. That's why the Democrats fight so hysterically against the wall. They don't think it won't work, they know it will.

Yes, the right wing cares about the freedom of rich people to exploit working folks.

We are against the wall because it's a waste of money and it presents an ugly image of our country. (Most undocumented workers actually entered the country legally or through another route.)

The reason this is THE issue is that for that reason, every other issue is dependent on the wall. If we don't build the wall, then Texas will eventually flip and with that alone we're done. Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful. But that takes time and a million illegals coming here a year floods that.

Yeah, um.... funny thing about that.. the blacks have been waiting a lot longer than the Hispanics have...

Okay, here's the real problem you guys have. You've spent the last few decades scaring white people into voting against their own economic interests by telling them the Darkies are out to get them.... which worked fine up until the 1980's, but really doesn't work now because there are too many of them, and some white people aren't really comfortable with racism.

The ironic thing is, Hispanics SHOULD be a conservative block now. religious, hard working and pro-family. They'll probably drag the Democrats closer to the center. But you guys have so thoroughly alienated them you've probably lost them for generations.

Wanting an end to illegal immigration is not racist. The Wall is a racist euphemism for Mexicans. And illegal immigration for Mexico has already lessened. I'm all for deporting illegal immigrants and splitting up families and doing all kinds of unpleasant things to them ... legally. They need to be dissuaded.

That's because you don't understand that we need them for our economy to flourish....and that is the best possible scenario.

The best possible scenario is to stop the illegal immigration of poor people and bring better educated normal people from those same countries instead. We make it simple to come here illegally and very difficult to do it legally. That is what is stupid, and it's your policy.

Of course your real goal is a voter registration drive and middle class won't be virtually exclusively Democrat like the poor people you want are.

ummmm, I think it is NOT in our interest to close off all immigration of low skilled people from hellish situations. We can't take everybody, but I think we should be seen as compassionate. It helps counter the narratives of those who wish us harm, because "they hate our freedoms."
And helping silicon valley lower wages with HBI is not in out interest.

 

[kaz]

In the end, if we don't build the wall, the Democrats will smother us. They have already flipped California and New Mexico into solid blue States. Illegal voters have turned Nevada light blue. And they have turned Texas and Arizona from solid to light red.

The issue of illegal immigration has been an endless game of kick the can for decades. But this is it. The authoritarian leftist Democrat party is on the verge of a stranglehold on the country and the end of our freedom. That's why the Democrats fight so hysterically against the wall. They don't think it won't work, they know it will.

The reason this is THE issue is that for that reason, every other issue is dependent on the wall. If we don't build the wall, then Texas will eventually flip and with that alone we're done. Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful. But that takes time and a million illegals coming here a year floods that.

I didn't vote for Trump last time for two main reasons. First, I'm a capitalist and he isn't. Free trade is the beating heart of capitalism. Second, he has been a pig to women. Unlike Democrats who voted twice for a sexual predator and again for his hoe who attacked his victims again, that does matter to me.

But now it's down to this. We must end the endless flow now. And for me, my decision of whether I will vote for him comes down to this. Build the wall and I'll vote for him. Don't, and I won't. I can't imagine what would make me flip from that. This is THE political question in our country. We must build the wall, and build it now.

I voted that I did not vote for 2016 but I will in 2020 because I believe/hope he'll actually do it.

Please explain your vote if you voted you will change your vote regarding Trump either way.

You didn’t vote? Then I’ve lost all respect for you loser.

I voted for Gary Johnson....

Who called Trump's wall "asinine".

So your standard is you only vote for people you agree with on every issue? Wow, what a stupid standard. Is that seriously your point?

Trumps not capitalistic enough for you?

No, he's not. Free trade is the beating heart of capitalism and Trump is not for free trade.

"Fair" trade is a euphemism for government controlled trade. That and that Trump has been a pig to women is why I voted for Gary Johnson

 

[kaz]

WTF are you talking about? I said sending the military in to chase thousands of people across the desert every night is a stupid idea.

And I gave a way to remove the reason for 1000s of people to be crossing the desert every night, so the military will only have to focus on the few that are left. Though you clearly do not think our military is up to the task.

And when you call people racists for opposing illegal immigration, you prove you are not interested in any sort of discussion. That is just a pure discussion ender. Don't do that then whine when you don't get responses.

If you do not want this to be about race, you should not have made your opening triade about Hispanics. Seems simple enough

Mentioning Hispanics once towards the end of my OP and saying they are like Americans is making my OP about Hispanics. Got it.

Once again you prove the failure of government educations to critical thinking

 

[kaz]

OK, so it was your twisting what I said, you dishonest piece of crap.

kaz: "Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful"

You said I only want "non-whites" here. You're the liar.

I said I want NORMAL Hispanics. Not poor Hispanics because Hispanics are as I said "like all other Americans." The poor ones are owned by Democrats and vote for them.

And you think you were honest??? You can't be serious.

I'll tell you what. Let's take all the poor white Americans and trade them for middle class Mexicans. I'll take that deal in a heart beat. Will you?

So, now in your world poor people are not normal? really that is where you want to go to now? So, you are not only a racist you are an classist as well.

More and more about you just keeps coming out with every post. By all means do not stop.

For most people, poor is a choice. They don't work for an education, they don't work at their jobs, they just accept their lot in life and make choices that keep them poor.

Unlike you, I don't tie that to race. Race is irrelevant. And there are plenty of poor white people, Grand Wizard

 

[kaz]

I voted for Gary Johnson....

Who called Trump's wall "asinine".

So your standard is you only vote for people you agree with on every issue? Wow, what a stupid standard. Is that seriously your point?

Not at all. Just ribbing you.

Yes, obviously when you continually argue what Democrats do and you argue again what Democrats do, you were joking ...

Very well said. You should copyright that one.

Thanks, man. I'll look into that

 

[kaz]

In the end, if we don't build the wall, the Democrats will smother us. They have already flipped California and New Mexico into solid blue States. Illegal voters have turned Nevada light blue. And they have turned Texas and Arizona from solid to light red.

The issue of illegal immigration has been an endless game of kick the can for decades. But this is it. The authoritarian leftist Democrat party is on the verge of a stranglehold on the country and the end of our freedom. That's why the Democrats fight so hysterically against the wall. They don't think it won't work, they know it will.

The reason this is THE issue is that for that reason, every other issue is dependent on the wall. If we don't build the wall, then Texas will eventually flip and with that alone we're done. Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful. But that takes time and a million illegals coming here a year floods that.

I didn't vote for Trump last time for two main reasons. First, I'm a capitalist and he isn't. Free trade is the beating heart of capitalism. Second, he has been a pig to women. Unlike Democrats who voted twice for a sexual predator and again for his hoe who attacked his victims again, that does matter to me.

But now it's down to this. We must end the endless flow now. And for me, my decision of whether I will vote for him comes down to this. Build the wall and I'll vote for him. Don't, and I won't. I can't imagine what would make me flip from that. This is THE political question in our country. We must build the wall, and build it now.

I voted that I did not vote for 2016 but I will in 2020 because I believe/hope he'll actually do it.

Please explain your vote if you voted you will change your vote regarding Trump either way.

I voted third party in every election since 1996, will continue that trend in 2020.

We do not need a wall, building a wall is moving backwards, not forwards. Trump wants a wall because he wants a viable, physical monument to his greatness and a wall is the only way he will get one.

According to Trump himself border crossings are down 80%, and that is without a wall and without a significant increase in the Border Patrol.

The wall is an expense we do not have the money to pay for and it will just become a bigger and bigger expense each year as the maintenance cost on it grow with time and age of the wall.

If you wish to control our southern border to keep the evil brown people out there are three easy steps to do it.

First, use our military for its base purpose, to defend the country. We have roughly 97,000 troops in Europe. Bring half of them home and station them along the border and give them the task of protecting the border.

Second, punish harshly those companies in the US that employ illegal immigrants. Make an example out of a couple of bigger companies and make it so painful that no other company will take the chance of using illegal immigrants as labor.

Third, have a real guest worker program so that those industries that do rely on cheaper labor (agricultural comes to mind) have access to those willing to work.

If you do the 2nd and 3rd thing then the only people trying to sneak across the border are people with ill intent and then they become easy targets for the military guarding the border.

On a side note, wanting to build a wall to keep the non-whites is about the most anti-libertarian thing I have seen in a long time. Thank you for dropping the charade.

How doesn’t the wall pay for itself over time?
You must be doing different math than we are...would you mind walking us through your arithmetic?

When you spend twenty billion bucks, plus future maintenance which is considerable, on a fantasy wall that ignores the reality of where illicit immigration comes from in the first place and therefore has little effect --- where exactly is your ROI on that?

Remember the mantra: "You don't sell products, benefits or solutions ---- you sell FEELINGS". That's what the wall is. It's already been sold, and you lot bought it. The wall isn't an actual wall, it's a fantasy sold to the gullible And Mexico didn't pay for it -- the rest of us in this country did.

A million Mexicans walk up to a reinforced concrete 30 foot wall dug down into the ground.

They laugh and say wow, that might as well not be there at all!

Then they proceed to ___ and the million illegal aliens enter the United States ...

You fill in the blank

Buy plane tickets. Go around the wall. Enter through a border check point.

To buy a plane ticket they have to have a Visa. Sure, some could get here that way, but nowhere near a million. And seriously, border check points? They don't check ID? Of course they do.

We need to close off the Visa overstay, but obviously you have not proposed how anywhere near a million will get through the wall that way

 

[Harpy Eagle]

In the end, if we don't build the wall, the Democrats will smother us. They have already flipped California and New Mexico into solid blue States. Illegal voters have turned Nevada light blue. And they have turned Texas and Arizona from solid to light red.

Some bigot like you said the same thing about the Irish 150 years ago.

And the Germans 100 years ago.

And the Poles 50 years ago.

The issue of illegal immigration has been an endless game of kick the can for decades. But this is it. The authoritarian leftist Democrat party is on the verge of a stranglehold on the country and the end of our freedom. That's why the Democrats fight so hysterically against the wall. They don't think it won't work, they know it will.

Yes, the right wing cares about the freedom of rich people to exploit working folks.

We are against the wall because it's a waste of money and it presents an ugly image of our country. (Most undocumented workers actually entered the country legally or through another route.)

The reason this is THE issue is that for that reason, every other issue is dependent on the wall. If we don't build the wall, then Texas will eventually flip and with that alone we're done. Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful. But that takes time and a million illegals coming here a year floods that.

Yeah, um.... funny thing about that.. the blacks have been waiting a lot longer than the Hispanics have...

Okay, here's the real problem you guys have. You've spent the last few decades scaring white people into voting against their own economic interests by telling them the Darkies are out to get them.... which worked fine up until the 1980's, but really doesn't work now because there are too many of them, and some white people aren't really comfortable with racism.

The ironic thing is, Hispanics SHOULD be a conservative block now. religious, hard working and pro-family. They'll probably drag the Democrats closer to the center. But you guys have so thoroughly alienated them you've probably lost them for generations.

Wanting an end to illegal immigration is not racist. The Wall is a racist euphemism for Mexicans. And illegal immigration for Mexico has already lessened. I'm all for deporting illegal immigrants and splitting up families and doing all kinds of unpleasant things to them ... legally. They need to be dissuaded.

That's because you don't understand that we need them for our economy to flourish....and that is the best possible scenario.

The best possible scenario is to stop the illegal immigration of poor people and bring better educated normal people from those same countries instead. We make it simple to come here illegally and very difficult to do it legally. That is what is stupid, and it's your policy.

Of course your real goal is a voter registration drive and middle class won't be virtually exclusively Democrat like the poor people you want are.

ummmm, I think it is NOT in our interest to close off all immigration of low skilled people from hellish situations. We can't take everybody, but I think we should be seen as compassionate. It helps counter the narratives of those who wish us harm, because "they hate our freedoms."
And helping silicon valley lower wages with HBI is not in out interest.

Not to mention that there are many high labor agricultural operations that are always in need of laborers.

 

[kaz]

Some bigot like you said the same thing about the Irish 150 years ago.

And the Germans 100 years ago.

And the Poles 50 years ago.

Yes, the right wing cares about the freedom of rich people to exploit working folks.

We are against the wall because it's a waste of money and it presents an ugly image of our country. (Most undocumented workers actually entered the country legally or through another route.)

Yeah, um.... funny thing about that.. the blacks have been waiting a lot longer than the Hispanics have...

Okay, here's the real problem you guys have. You've spent the last few decades scaring white people into voting against their own economic interests by telling them the Darkies are out to get them.... which worked fine up until the 1980's, but really doesn't work now because there are too many of them, and some white people aren't really comfortable with racism.

The ironic thing is, Hispanics SHOULD be a conservative block now. religious, hard working and pro-family. They'll probably drag the Democrats closer to the center. But you guys have so thoroughly alienated them you've probably lost them for generations.

Wanting an end to illegal immigration is not racist. The Wall is a racist euphemism for Mexicans. And illegal immigration for Mexico has already lessened. I'm all for deporting illegal immigrants and splitting up families and doing all kinds of unpleasant things to them ... legally. They need to be dissuaded.

That's because you don't understand that we need them for our economy to flourish....and that is the best possible scenario.

I've never said I was against legal immigration.

You didn't. But taking a severe hard line stance on those who are already here will harm our economy while it
takes a piss on human beings who are only here because we needed them and they wanted a better life.

used to be that if you had a toolbelt and knew how to use what were in it, you'd always get a paycheck, or that was the saying. During the recession of 73-75, that didn't work out for me, but with public education I got through college.

I'm ok with temporary guest workers and regulated immigration for new citizens, but good with deporting people who broke the law to get here. And imo we should remove incentives and disincentives that keep Americans from moving to where there are jobs and leaving places where there is not likely to be an uptick in economies

I want to acknowledge I said I never see you arguing with Democrats. I recognize that you are here

 

[Harpy Eagle]

OK, so it was your twisting what I said, you dishonest piece of crap.

kaz: "Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful"

You said I only want "non-whites" here. You're the liar.

I said I want NORMAL Hispanics. Not poor Hispanics because Hispanics are as I said "like all other Americans." The poor ones are owned by Democrats and vote for them.

And you think you were honest??? You can't be serious.

I'll tell you what. Let's take all the poor white Americans and trade them for middle class Mexicans. I'll take that deal in a heart beat. Will you?

So, now in your world poor people are not normal? really that is where you want to go to now? So, you are not only a racist you are an classist as well.

More and more about you just keeps coming out with every post. By all means do not stop.

For most people, poor is a choice. They don't work for an education, they don't work at their jobs, they just accept their lot in life and make choices that keep them poor.

Unlike you, I don't tie that to race. Race is irrelevant. And there are plenty of poor white people, Grand Wizard

They are all races, but they are not NORMAL in your view.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

The Democratic Party regards educated mainstream middle class taxpayers as its arch enemy and illegal aliens as its army of voters are against them.
The Left Wing is on a mission to change America into a third world country.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

We need to close off the Visa overstay, but obviously you have not proposed how anywhere near a million will get through the wall that way

Roughly 2/3 of the illegal immigrants in our country are visa overstays.

 

[kaz]

In the end, if we don't build the wall, the Democrats will smother us. They have already flipped California and New Mexico into solid blue States. Illegal voters have turned Nevada light blue. And they have turned Texas and Arizona from solid to light red.

The issue of illegal immigration has been an endless game of kick the can for decades. But this is it. The authoritarian leftist Democrat party is on the verge of a stranglehold on the country and the end of our freedom. That's why the Democrats fight so hysterically against the wall. They don't think it won't work, they know it will.

The reason this is THE issue is that for that reason, every other issue is dependent on the wall. If we don't build the wall, then Texas will eventually flip and with that alone we're done. Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful. But that takes time and a million illegals coming here a year floods that.

I didn't vote for Trump last time for two main reasons. First, I'm a capitalist and he isn't. Free trade is the beating heart of capitalism. Second, he has been a pig to women. Unlike Democrats who voted twice for a sexual predator and again for his hoe who attacked his victims again, that does matter to me.

But now it's down to this. We must end the endless flow now. And for me, my decision of whether I will vote for him comes down to this. Build the wall and I'll vote for him. Don't, and I won't. I can't imagine what would make me flip from that. This is THE political question in our country. We must build the wall, and build it now.

I voted that I did not vote for 2016 but I will in 2020 because I believe/hope he'll actually do it.

Please explain your vote if you voted you will change your vote regarding Trump either way.

Man...you sure do have some pent up hatred for brown people.

You won't see a wall built. And it won't matter because American FREE CAPITALIST corporations want them some Mexican labor. And they will have it.
No wall will stop them.

Another racist who thinks that only brown people break immigration laws.

kaz: I want middle class Hispanics, not poor ones

You see a racist behind every tree, that while you push racist bigotry, grand wizard

Why are you afraid to admit that you prefer white people over brown people? Nobody here knows who you are. You can
still go through your real life hiding your true nature. Why hide it here? Free yourself.

Or...just once in your sad life....say something that leads a thinking person to believe that you are in favor of ethnic and racial diversity.
Call out some TRUE racists when you see them. Give us a hint that you understand why the rebel flag is a racist symbol and
statues honoring Robert E. Lee are tributes to bigotry. FFS.....we see you!

And LoneLaughers limp goes limp again. He realizes he's losing and badly. So he goes to the conversation ender to clear the path so he can run away.

Got it, all you have left is you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist, you're a racist ...

 

[bendog]

Wanting an end to illegal immigration is not racist. The Wall is a racist euphemism for Mexicans. And illegal immigration for Mexico has already lessened. I'm all for deporting illegal immigrants and splitting up families and doing all kinds of unpleasant things to them ... legally. They need to be dissuaded.

That's because you don't understand that we need them for our economy to flourish....and that is the best possible scenario.

I've never said I was against legal immigration.

You didn't. But taking a severe hard line stance on those who are already here will harm our economy while it
takes a piss on human beings who are only here because we needed them and they wanted a better life.

used to be that if you had a toolbelt and knew how to use what were in it, you'd always get a paycheck, or that was the saying. During the recession of 73-75, that didn't work out for me, but with public education I got through college.

I'm ok with temporary guest workers and regulated immigration for new citizens, but good with deporting people who broke the law to get here. And imo we should remove incentives and disincentives that keep Americans from moving to where there are jobs and leaving places where there is not likely to be an uptick in economies

I want to acknowledge I said I never see you arguing with Democrats. I recognize that you are here

Oh, I disagreed with most of Obama's foreign policy. I thought he should have more aggressively negotiated an Iraq deal that would let us keep basically a brigade size force with airpower that could only be used if the central govt was threatened. The gop is just not the same gop of Ford and Nixon's economics. And it's not party of Reagan.

I don't see any evidence of you being a racist in this thread, btw.

 

[kaz]

The vote itself isn't surprising because while leftists on the board are louder, there are fewer of them. What is interesting is how few of us are changing our votes. Again, I asked for best guess, meaning on information known now.

Not Trump (2016) to Trump (2020). Two. Pumpkin Row and me and we're both serious posters.

Trump to (2016) to not Trump (2016). One. Sealybo claimed this, but he's obviously lying as he's 100% true blue Democrat. That's why I make people identify themselves. Flewism, who I don't know also said this. Since I don't know him/her I'll take them at face value.

Not seeing the blue wave here ...

 

[bendog]

We need to close off the Visa overstay, but obviously you have not proposed how anywhere near a million will get through the wall that way

Roughly 2/3 of the illegal immigrants in our country are visa overstays.

True. We really need an metaphysical wall to keep GM out of Mexico and Mexican truckers out of the US. (-:

 

[kaz]

In the end, if we don't build the wall, the Democrats will smother us. They have already flipped California and New Mexico into solid blue States. Illegal voters have turned Nevada light blue. And they have turned Texas and Arizona from solid to light red.

Some bigot like you said the same thing about the Irish 150 years ago.

And the Germans 100 years ago.

And the Poles 50 years ago.

The issue of illegal immigration has been an endless game of kick the can for decades. But this is it. The authoritarian leftist Democrat party is on the verge of a stranglehold on the country and the end of our freedom. That's why the Democrats fight so hysterically against the wall. They don't think it won't work, they know it will.

Yes, the right wing cares about the freedom of rich people to exploit working folks.

We are against the wall because it's a waste of money and it presents an ugly image of our country. (Most undocumented workers actually entered the country legally or through another route.)

The reason this is THE issue is that for that reason, every other issue is dependent on the wall. If we don't build the wall, then Texas will eventually flip and with that alone we're done. Hispanics over time like all other Americans become more conservative as they become more successful. But that takes time and a million illegals coming here a year floods that.

Yeah, um.... funny thing about that.. the blacks have been waiting a lot longer than the Hispanics have...

Okay, here's the real problem you guys have. You've spent the last few decades scaring white people into voting against their own economic interests by telling them the Darkies are out to get them.... which worked fine up until the 1980's, but really doesn't work now because there are too many of them, and some white people aren't really comfortable with racism.

The ironic thing is, Hispanics SHOULD be a conservative block now. religious, hard working and pro-family. They'll probably drag the Democrats closer to the center. But you guys have so thoroughly alienated them you've probably lost them for generations.

Wanting an end to illegal immigration is not racist. The Wall is a racist euphemism for Mexicans. And illegal immigration for Mexico has already lessened. I'm all for deporting illegal immigrants and splitting up families and doing all kinds of unpleasant things to them ... legally. They need to be dissuaded.

That's because you don't understand that we need them for our economy to flourish....and that is the best possible scenario.

The best possible scenario is to stop the illegal immigration of poor people and bring better educated normal people from those same countries instead. We make it simple to come here illegally and very difficult to do it legally. That is what is stupid, and it's your policy.

Of course your real goal is a voter registration drive and middle class won't be virtually exclusively Democrat like the poor people you want are.

ummmm, I think it is NOT in our interest to close off all immigration of low skilled people from hellish situations. We can't take everybody, but I think we should be seen as compassionate. It helps counter the narratives of those who wish us harm, because "they hate our freedoms."
And helping silicon valley lower wages with HBI is not in out interest.

I will agree with that if we clean out our our current overload of poor people and give our own poor more job opportunities first. If you want to donate to Mexico (or other countries) before that it's fine. We don't need to import everyone's problems though

 

[Reasonable]