CA Celebrates the Right to Suicide

[Ozone]

No matter how merciful and compassionate this starts out, it will end with murdering the inconvenient.

Slippery slope fallacy.

Such is the authoritarian conservative, seeking more government interference in citizens’ personal lives.

Whether it’s compelling a woman to give birth against her will through force of law or using government to dictate to citizens personal life matters, conservatives are consistent in their contempt for individual liberty.

slippery slope fallacy... the very basis evolution, each generation mutates just a little bit further. we know what's going to happen, and you don't get to call yourself the adversary to the nazis once you go down this road, but you are the nazis. so by all means, keep crying about individual liberties when we know damn well you'll be targeting the poor and the minority with your abortion and euthanasia agenda as though it's the honorable and even glamorous thing to do.

 

[August West]

My mother spent the last two horrible years of her life in a home for dementia patients and the last 6 months of that she had a stroke to deal with too. Who would be so cruel as to want to see one of their parents in a vegetative state for 6 months at the age of 89? She was a very religious woman who was more than ready to go. How sadistic are you people with your phony religious beliefs?

Who made a religious argument or based opposition on religion?

This is like abortion. At one time a doctor had to find abortion medically necessary. Now the debate is how old does a child need to be before post birth abortion is no longer a risk.

I don`t know who made a religious argument. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. My mother was no longer capable of speech and I was making the point that she was not afraid to end her torture. Religion has a calming effect on people. Are you some sort of sadistic sob that enjoyed pulling wings off butterflies as a child? Obviously you`ve never had a chance to see the hellish existence of a person suffering from severe dementia and a stroke. I don`t know why you`re babbling about abortion but feel free to start another thread.

 

[August West]

My mother spent the last two horrible years of her life in a home for dementia patients and the last 6 months of that she had a stroke to deal with too. Who would be so cruel as to want to see one of their parents in a vegetative state for 6 months at the age of 89? She was a very religious woman who was more than ready to go. How sadistic are you people with your phony religious beliefs?

Yup.....we draw a line in the sand and you step over it. We draw another one and you step over that one. Eventually Progressives will be deciding that the retarded, insane, or the clinically depressed have no purpose, so off them and save everyone alot of trouble.

Assisted suicide is not offing people stupid ass. There are plenty of online dictionaries that could help you and even George Bush knew how to use "the Google". Are you dumber than Bush?

 

[Katzndogz]

My mother spent the last two horrible years of her life in a home for dementia patients and the last 6 months of that she had a stroke to deal with too. Who would be so cruel as to want to see one of their parents in a vegetative state for 6 months at the age of 89? She was a very religious woman who was more than ready to go. How sadistic are you people with your phony religious beliefs?

Who made a religious argument or based opposition on religion?

This is like abortion. At one time a doctor had to find abortion medically necessary. Now the debate is how old does a child need to be before post birth abortion is no longer a risk.

I don`t know who made a religious argument. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. My mother was no longer capable of speech and I was making the point that she was not afraid to end her torture. Religion has a calming effect on people. Are you some sort of sadistic sob that enjoyed pulling wings off butterflies as a child? Obviously you`ve never had a chance to see the hellish existence of a person suffering from severe dementia and a stroke. I don`t know why you`re babbling about abortion but feel free to start another thread.

I am truly sorry that your mother endured a lingering and painful end to her life. It is still not enough to hand the power of life and death to a killer.

My dearest friend died of brain cancer. She was a brilliant, beautiful, attorney on her way to being a judge. At the end she couldn't speak, she couldn't walk, she was incontinent. She could only communicate by squeezing my hand and she still didn't want to die. Part of her condition caused her to scream uncontrollably. She would scream for hours. Whatever there was in life that gave her some thin pleasure, she was unwilling to give it up.

 

[Katzndogz]

My mother spent the last two horrible years of her life in a home for dementia patients and the last 6 months of that she had a stroke to deal with too. Who would be so cruel as to want to see one of their parents in a vegetative state for 6 months at the age of 89? She was a very religious woman who was more than ready to go. How sadistic are you people with your phony religious beliefs?

Yup.....we draw a line in the sand and you step over it. We draw another one and you step over that one. Eventually Progressives will be deciding that the retarded, insane, or the clinically depressed have no purpose, so off them and save everyone alot of trouble.

Assisted suicide is not offing people stupid ass. There are plenty of online dictionaries that could help you and even George Bush knew how to use "the Google". Are you dumber than Bush?

How is this working in countries that have had assisted suicide for awhile? Would it be different here?

 

[WinterBorn]

My mother spent the last two horrible years of her life in a home for dementia patients and the last 6 months of that she had a stroke to deal with too. Who would be so cruel as to want to see one of their parents in a vegetative state for 6 months at the age of 89? She was a very religious woman who was more than ready to go. How sadistic are you people with your phony religious beliefs?

Who made a religious argument or based opposition on religion?

This is like abortion. At one time a doctor had to find abortion medically necessary. Now the debate is how old does a child need to be before post birth abortion is no longer a risk.

I don`t know who made a religious argument. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. My mother was no longer capable of speech and I was making the point that she was not afraid to end her torture. Religion has a calming effect on people. Are you some sort of sadistic sob that enjoyed pulling wings off butterflies as a child? Obviously you`ve never had a chance to see the hellish existence of a person suffering from severe dementia and a stroke. I don`t know why you`re babbling about abortion but feel free to start another thread.

I am truly sorry that your mother endured a lingering and painful end to her life. It is still not enough to hand the power of life and death to a killer.

My dearest friend died of brain cancer. She was a brilliant, beautiful, attorney on her way to being a judge. At the end she couldn't speak, she couldn't walk, she was incontinent. She could only communicate by squeezing my hand and she still didn't want to die. Part of her condition caused her to scream uncontrollably. She would scream for hours. Whatever there was in life that gave her some thin pleasure, she was unwilling to give it up.

If she could not ask for it, under the new CA law, she would not be given the means to do it.

 

[Mr Natural]

We offer our pets an easy way out. Why not ourselves when the time comes?

 

[Syriusly]

Should your cousin have had the option to make that decision?

Or should she have been prevented from making that decision?

Try reading what I said, instead of knee jerking about how I'm denying you something.

Try responding to my question rather than dancing to avoid it.

Should your cousin have had the option to make that decision?

Or should she have been prevented from making that decision?

Wow. You read a lot into what I said. At no time did I say she should be prevented from making the decision to kill herself. I said that she suffered, and in that suffering something important probably happened. (I'm avoiding mentioning God because that'll likely bring on even more assumptions and knee jerking.)

Her death sucked. Her loved ones hated it. Surely, she hated it. All I'm saying is maybe, just maybe, dying the hard way is the way to go. Making it legal to kill somebody- just might deny people from fully living out their lives. So. If she had decided to off herself, there would have been less pain. There also may have been less chance to spend that extra time to say good bye. It seems to me that it was terrible enough to have to die so young but to cut it off even sooner would deny not just her, but her loved ones a special time.

So yeah. I am in favor of naturally finishing out of one's life. By the way, look up Jack Kevorkian. Some of the people he "helped" die were just sad. Is CA wrong with this law? I can't say. I do say there are dangers of making offing people in pain easier.

I trust you see that I am not "dancing".

You still haven't actually answered my question- and yes- you are still dancing away from the hard anwer

Should your cousin have had the option to make that decision?

Or should she have been prevented from making that decision?

My cousin always had the option to kill herself. We all do. Should she be prevented from killing herself? It depends. As I suggested before, you may want to learn about Jack Kevorkian. He killed some people who probably needed psychological help as much, or more than, relief from pain. He went to prison because assisted suicide was illegal.

Legalizing suicide will invite more killing. Look at the people who have been offed in other countries that have legal assisted suicide. Are you OK with all of those deaths? Should any of them been prevented?

I can't make the decision for anyone else, but I'd try to talk someone I loved out of killing themselves. I believe the state has no business in that decision.

If that doesn't answer your "hard" question, then you haven't read what I've written.

Oh I read what you wrote- you said 'she always had that option'- not in the way she would now.

Now she could go to her doctors- the one who were treating her for illness, and who knew her and her case and ask for drugs to end her own life painlessly and peacefully, so she could die when she wanted to with her friends and family.

Your alternative is the non-legal alternatives- a pistol to the mouth, attempting an overdose with pain kills, maybe carbon monoxide poisoning in her car- all dangerous in their own way, and ways that would bring additional suffering to her and her family.

You presume that this will lead to 'more killing'- what is the record in Oregon- there has been legal assisted suicide in Oregon for 10 years now.
How many of those persons were 'killed'?

I am all for preventing murder- but your solution is to tell me- and everyone in California- that we don't have the right to decide for ourselves-and that you believe you should be the one to decide whether or not we can have a safe, legal way to end our lives if we are in great pain and suffering.

I think that the safeguards in place are reasonable- if not even onerous. I also think adults should be able to make these decisions for themselves.

 

[Syriusly]

In a year Great Aunt Hannah will miss her bridge game because someone decided she's too sick to live. In five years, the 15 year old girl commenting that she would rather die than wear braces will be strapped to a bed with a kindly doctor telling her she made the right decision.

In a year, Conservatives will be demanding that guns be taken away from sick people because their relatives might kill them with their own guns.
Then in 5 years Conservatives will demand that sick people not own cars because they may use cars to kill themselves. In 10 years Conservatives will outlaw pain medication entirely- on the off chance someone might use them to kill someone else.

 

[Syriusly]

Poor Jack Kevorkian, he was born too soon and died too soon to celebrate California's assisted suicide!


End of Life Option Act goes into effect in CA
California’s Physician-Assisted Suicide Law Goes Into Effect

Eventually Democrats will be making us pay for anyone who wants to off themselves.

Eventually Republicans will pass laws preventing any tax payer dollars to help anyone who is suffering.

 

[aris2chat]

BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY?

Yes indeed! Forget body parts of aborted babies! Let's harvest the suicidal! It's a pyramid schemers dream!

that would depend on the illness, the patient's choice and what meds were used in the end

 

[Syriusly]

This is an absolute goldmine for heirs tired of waiting for Uncle Ralph to die. Sick people won't be wasting assets on medical care any more.

It was already a gold mine, just not for the elderly/dying or their families.

A goldmine? You should see the hospital bills when my grandfathers and grandmothers died after 2 weeks of hospice. Had we ended their suffering in 1 week the healthcare giants would have lost a half million dollars.

Yup.......snuff em early and save yourself some cash.
Just consider yourself a member of the Obamacare deathpanel.

You don't kill them because of the savings they're just an additional benefit.

No one wants their loveone suffering in a free nursing home let alone one that's costing $6000 a month.

Healthcare wipes more families out. In the future don't plan on leaving your children anything.

This is like the abortion argument. Maybe it shouldnt so expensive to live and then people wouldn't want to die or kill their unborn.

This the problem. Used to be families lived together in one home and the young used to take care of the old. Nobody wants to take care of of their parents when they become a problem. So they put them up in some place that costs $6000 a month. Meanwhile the kids go about their lives without a care in the world.....other than the huge bill.

The solution isn't to off them. The solution is to keep your family together.

Your solution is to make terminally ill people in great pain continue to endure the pain.

This is what you despise- this is one of the people you would deny death with dignity- you don't give a damn whether or not a person lives with their family- you prefer that they either die in agony or blow their brains out with their legal gun, dying a lonely death that their family has to suffer from.

Only an asshole would deny this woman her choice

Brittany Maynard: My right to death with dignity at 29 - CNN.com
My right to death with dignity at 29

I plan to celebrate my husband's birthday on October 26 with him and our family. Unless my condition improves dramatically, I will look to pass soon thereafter.


I hope for the sake of my fellow American citizens that I'll never meet that this option is available to you. If you ever find yourself walking a mile in my shoes, I hope that you would at least be given the same choice and that no one tries to take it from you.


When my suffering becomes too great, I can say to all those I love, "I love you; come be by my side, and come say goodbye as I pass into whatever's next." I will die upstairs in my bedroom with my husband, mother, stepfather and best friend by my side and pass peacefully. I can't imagine trying to rob anyone else of that choice.

 

[Syriusly]

A goldmine? You should see the hospital bills when my grandfathers and grandmothers died after 2 weeks of hospice. Had we ended their suffering in 1 week the healthcare giants would have lost a half million dollars.

Yup.......snuff em early and save yourself some cash.
Just consider yourself a member of the Obamacare deathpanel.

You don't kill them because of the savings they're just an additional benefit.

No one wants their loveone suffering in a free nursing home let alone one that's costing $6000 a month.

Healthcare wipes more families out. In the future don't plan on leaving your children anything.

This is like the abortion argument. Maybe it shouldnt so expensive to live and then people wouldn't want to die or kill their unborn.

This the problem. Used to be families lived together in one home and the young used to take care of the old. Nobody wants to take care of of their parents when they become a problem. So they put them up in some place that costs $6000 a month. Meanwhile the kids go about their lives without a care in the world.....other than the huge bill.

The solution isn't to off them. The solution is to keep your family together.

Have you read the requirements of the assisted suicide?

First, two doctors have to agree that there is no hope. The patient is terminal and in pain.

This is not about killing someone because they are inconvenient. This is about mercy.

Yep......essentially death-panels decides who lives and who dies.

The next step will be a law granting the right to take a black pill.

Yep eventually there will be right wing death squads requiring the terminally ill to purchase legal guns and blow their brains out.

Because to the right wing- the only death with dignity is with a gun in your own hand- and a horror for your family to deal with.

 

[Syriusly]

A goldmine? You should see the hospital bills when my grandfathers and grandmothers died after 2 weeks of hospice. Had we ended their suffering in 1 week the healthcare giants would have lost a half million dollars.

Yup.......snuff em early and save yourself some cash.
Just consider yourself a member of the Obamacare deathpanel.

You don't kill them because of the savings they're just an additional benefit.

No one wants their loveone suffering in a free nursing home let alone one that's costing $6000 a month.

Healthcare wipes more families out. In the future don't plan on leaving your children anything.

This is like the abortion argument. Maybe it shouldnt so expensive to live and then people wouldn't want to die or kill their unborn.

It is much like the abortion debate. The unborn is not human. The victim of this legalized murder really "wants" to die. They just need a little help.

The CA law requires two doctors to approve and for the patient to administer the drug themselves.

from: Guidelines issued for California's assisted suicide law
"Citing the law, the medical association says patients who are at least 18 years old with the capacity to make medical decisions may request an aid-in-dying drug as long as their attending physician and a consulting physician have diagnosed a terminal disease that is expected to result in death within six months.

The patient is required to make two verbal requests at least 15 days apart and one written request that is signed, dated and witnessed by two adults, as well as provide proof of California residency.

The state request form is titled “Request for an Aid-in-Dying Drug to End My Life in a Humane and Dignified Manner."

Physicians must inform the patient that he or she may rescind the request for an aid-in-dying drug at any time and in any manner.

A request for a prescription cannot be made on behalf of a patient through an agent under a power of attorney, an advance healthcare directive, a conservator or any other person.'

See this is bullshit. My mom can't communicate anymore. She's trapped in silent horror. We know she wouldn't have wanted to live this way. But that's her fault for not making a will. My question is, "what if she makes the decision before she lost her abilities? So for example, 5 years ago what if she said "KILL ME IF I EVER GET THAT BAD"? I don't like it that they wouldn't help her because she's unable to ask for help.

I don't know any way around this- I have a horror of ending up just like that- and certainly I would end my life if I could rather than live like that.

But I don't know anyway you could have sufficient safeguards that didn't include a patients active consent and desire to end their own life.

 

[Syriusly]

Doctors have been having patients fill out a living will for some years. It's part of obamacare. I filled one out. I asked for all measures. Everything. Tubes, machines, all of it. The doctor has been trying to get me to change my mind ever since. Hey, if they didn't want the option they should not have included it.

This is the start of death panels that can judge your life not worth living because you sprained your ankle.

This is the start of the right wing requirement that persons be kept alive by machines even after their brains and hearts have failed, and despite the wishes of the individual and their family.

This is the start of the Right Wing arguing that the Government should prevent anyone from dying before the Government approves of the dying.

 

[Syriusly]

My mother spent the last two horrible years of her life in a home for dementia patients and the last 6 months of that she had a stroke to deal with too. Who would be so cruel as to want to see one of their parents in a vegetative state for 6 months at the age of 89? She was a very religious woman who was more than ready to go. How sadistic are you people with your phony religious beliefs?

Yup.....we draw a line in the sand and you step over it. We draw another one and you step over that one. Eventually Progressives will be deciding that the retarded, insane, or the clinically depressed have no purpose, so off them and save everyone alot of trouble.

Assisted suicide is not offing people stupid ass. There are plenty of online dictionaries that could help you and even George Bush knew how to use "the Google". Are you dumber than Bush?

How is this working in countries that have had assisted suicide for awhile? Would it be different here?

Oregon has had assisted suicide for 20 years now- right next door to California.

It has been working fine in Oregon- I havent' been able to find a single example of it being abused.

 

[Mr Natural]

I'd like to hear one good reason against assisted suicide that does include the disapproval of imaginary beings or the writings of ancient primitives.

 

[Syriusly]

You don't kill them because of the savings they're just an additional benefit.

No one wants their loveone suffering in a free nursing home let alone one that's costing $6000 a month.

Healthcare wipes more families out. In the future don't plan on leaving your children anything.

This is like the abortion argument. Maybe it shouldnt so expensive to live and then people wouldn't want to die or kill their unborn.

This the problem. Used to be families lived together in one home and the young used to take care of the old. Nobody wants to take care of of their parents when they become a problem. So they put them up in some place that costs $6000 a month. Meanwhile the kids go about their lives without a care in the world.....other than the huge bill.

The solution isn't to off them. The solution is to keep your family together.

Have you read the requirements of the assisted suicide?

First, two doctors have to agree that there is no hope. The patient is terminal and in pain.

This is not about killing someone because they are inconvenient. This is about mercy.

Yep......essentially death-panels decides who lives and who dies.

The next step will be a law granting the right to take a black pill.

If you want to call it a "Death Panel", that is fine. According to the new CA law, the patient is also on the panel, since they have to request it twice, at least 15 days apart.

Right.

I wonder why liberals are in such a hurry to kill the helpless and the innocent, yet want to save death row inmates? That's always been a real poser.k.

I wonder why Conservatives are in such a hurry to tell the helpless and the innocent- indeed all of us that Government should decide whether we can die or not, and that the only acceptable way to kill yourself is with a gun?

 

[irosie91]

I'd like to hear one good reason against assisted suicide that does include the disapproval of imaginary beings or the writings of ancient primitives.

I got one----FAMILY PRESSURE----some family members might want to get rid of the sick relative and---kinda ENCOURAGE him to
-----GET IT OVER WITH

 

[Fenton Lum]

A goldmine? You should see the hospital bills when my grandfathers and grandmothers died after 2 weeks of hospice. Had we ended their suffering in 1 week the healthcare giants would have lost a half million dollars.

Yup.......snuff em early and save yourself some cash.
Just consider yourself a member of the Obamacare deathpanel.

You don't kill them because of the savings they're just an additional benefit.

No one wants their loveone suffering in a free nursing home let alone one that's costing $6000 a month.

Healthcare wipes more families out. In the future don't plan on leaving your children anything.

This is like the abortion argument. Maybe it shouldnt so expensive to live and then people wouldn't want to die or kill their unborn.

This the problem. Used to be families lived together in one home and the young used to take care of the old. Nobody wants to take care of of their parents when they become a problem. So they put them up in some place that costs $6000 a month. Meanwhile the kids go about their lives without a care in the world.....other than the huge bill.

The solution isn't to off them. The solution is to keep your family together.

Have you read the requirements of the assisted suicide?

First, two doctors have to agree that there is no hope. The patient is terminal and in pain.

This is not about killing someone because they are inconvenient. This is about mercy.

Yep......essentially death-panels decides who lives and who dies.

The next step will be a law granting the right to take a black pill.

Only for idiots who leave it up to the power structure. Nothing anyone can do if you manage it yourself prior to institutionalization.