Celebs and Plastic Surgery

[Rikurzhen]

I already told you. I would choose the guy who was more interesting over the guy who was better looking, ANY day. Whether you choose to believe me or not is completely up to you, but that is the truth. Looks are NOT the most important thing to me.

You can keep telling me this until the sun burns itself out and I won't believe it because you don't recount any actual experiences of HAVING DONE SO. Don't you find it odd that you believe you would do this but have never actually done so?

Let me approach this another way. A guy tells me that he would have no problem dating a fat woman who was nice and who was intelligent and pleasant, etc and all I see him dating are skinny women. What value do his words have to me when his actions tell a different story?

 

[Sgt_Gath]

Well, the guy I had a crush on was QUITE a bit older than me, and he probably would have gone to jail if he dated me. Lol!

So, again, he had social status, and you found that attractive about him, even though his looks weren't up to the level you'd usually go for.

That's exactly how I've been saying this thing works from the very beginning.

All things being equal, people tend to wind up with people on a similar level of attractiveness to themselves. 7s wind up with 6s, 7s, or, if they're lucky, 8s. 2s wind up with 1s, or other 2s, and, more often, alone.

The only thing that really changes this dynamic, at least where female attraction is concerned, is social status.

A high status (wealthy, powerful, influential, older, etca) 2 or 3 can often attain women who are "out of his league" simply due to how women tend to perceive him.

 

[ChrisL]

Well, the guy I had a crush on was QUITE a bit older than me, and he probably would have gone to jail if he dated me. Lol!

So, again, he had social status, and you found that attractive about him, even though his looks weren't up to the level you'd usually go for.

That's exactly how I've been saying this thing works from the very beginning.

All things being equal, people tend to wind up with people on a similar level of attractiveness to themselves. 7s wind up with 6s, 7s, or, if they're lucky, 8s. 2s wind up with 1s, or other 2s, and, more often, alone.

The only thing that really changes this dynamic, at least where female attraction is concerned, is social status.

A high status (wealthy, powerful, influential, etca) 2 or 3 can often attain women that are far "out of his league" simply due to how women tend to perceive him.

Why do you think he had any social status? He was just a typical 20-something year old who hung out with my cousin! He just had a great personality. He was outgoing. He was really funny. He was cool. I liked hanging out with him.

Why does there always have to be an "ulterior motive" with you? And why are you trying SO hard to discount the way I tell you I feel?

 

[Rikurzhen]

I can deal with overweight. Lol! Didn't have a job is something ENTIRELY different. I would never date a supposed "man" who didn't have a job. That means he is not a man, but a child. That means he doesn't have the type of personality that I am interested in. I'm not into video gaming kids. That is entirely different Sgt_Gath.

Even assuming this were strictly true (I have my doubts that you would actually become romantically involved with a legitimately 'ugly' person), all this demonstrates is that you are primarily selecting your sexual partners on the basis of their perceived social status. Frankly, that's exactly what we said women were prone to do in the first place.

There's nothing wrong with it, per se. It's what women are evolved to do.

All I'm saying is that trying to pretend like it doesn't happen is naive.

We've had this discussion before Gath. I've told you that, while I may not approach an unattractive man with the purposes of "starting a relationship," if I liked a guy who was not very attractive but had the personality type that attracts me, then I wouldn't have a problem with dating him, certain extenuating circumstances aside.

Yet, you've never done it...

Well, the guy I had a crush on was QUITE a bit older than me, and he probably would have gone to jail if he dated me. Lol!

So you have to go all the way back to your teenage years to find an example of you being attracted to a man who had low status and even here, to a young girl a man who pays attention to her does make the man somewhat more attractive. Young girls have crushes on older men who they wouldn't even look at when they grow up and enter into the real mating market.

I already told you. I would choose the guy who was more interesting over the guy who was better looking, ANY day. Whether you choose to believe me or not is completely up to you, but that is the truth. Looks are NOT the most important thing to me.

When exactly did we transition to this comparison of men being interesting versus good looking? This isn't a stretch for women. The proper comparison is not to seek out an interesting man but a low status man, a loser, a man that women ignore but a man who is kind and considerate, has a non-threateneing and unexciting personality.

It's men, not women, who are most primed to be attracted to appearance, so you being willing to date an interesting man over an attractive man is the equivalent of me being willing to date an attractive woman over an interesting woman. Yeah, big sacrifice for most guys, right?

 

[ChrisL]

I already told you. I would choose the guy who was more interesting over the guy who was better looking, ANY day. Whether you choose to believe me or not is completely up to you, but that is the truth. Looks are NOT the most important thing to me.

You can keep telling me this until the sun burns itself out and I won't believe it because you don't recount any actual experiences of HAVING DONE SO. Don't you find it odd that you believe you would do this but have never actually done so?

Let me approach this another way. A guy tells me that he would have no problem dating a fat woman who was nice and who was intelligent and pleasant, etc and all I see him dating are skinny women. What value do his words have to me when his actions tell a different story?

You have no idea who I have dated or how good looking or not good looking they were though. Lol! You are just making assumptions.

Just the other day I saw a GREAT looking black man with a HUGE, EXTREMELY unattractive white woman, and he was ALL over her, practically fondling her, and that is not the first time I've seen similar things either.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Well, the guy I had a crush on was QUITE a bit older than me, and he probably would have gone to jail if he dated me. Lol!

So, again, he had social status, and you found that attractive about him, even though his looks weren't up to the level you'd usually go for.

That's exactly how I've been saying this thing works from the very beginning.

All things being equal, people tend to wind up with people on a similar level of attractiveness to themselves. 7s wind up with 6s, 7s, or, if they're lucky, 8s. 2s wind up with 1s, or other 2s, and, more often, alone.

The only thing that really changes this dynamic, at least where female attraction is concerned, is social status.

A high status (wealthy, powerful, influential, etca) 2 or 3 can often attain women that are far "out of his league" simply due to how women tend to perceive him.

Why do you think he had any social status? He was just a typical 20-something year old who hung out with my cousin! He just had a great personality. He was outgoing. He was really funny. He was cool. I liked hanging out with him.

Why does there always have to be an "ulterior motive" with you? And why are you trying SO hard to discount the way I tell you I feel?

An older "man" paying attention to a young teenage girl elevates the status of the guy in the girl's mind. Girls are just getting used to be the objects of interest for men, so you hanging out with a "man" and him paying attention to you is like catnip to a cat.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I already told you. I would choose the guy who was more interesting over the guy who was better looking, ANY day. Whether you choose to believe me or not is completely up to you, but that is the truth. Looks are NOT the most important thing to me.

You can keep telling me this until the sun burns itself out and I won't believe it because you don't recount any actual experiences of HAVING DONE SO. Don't you find it odd that you believe you would do this but have never actually done so?

Let me approach this another way. A guy tells me that he would have no problem dating a fat woman who was nice and who was intelligent and pleasant, etc and all I see him dating are skinny women. What value do his words have to me when his actions tell a different story?

You have no idea who I have dated or how good looking or not good looking they were though. Lol! You are just making assumptions.

Just the other day I saw a GREAT looking black man with a HUGE, EXTREMELY unattractive white woman, and he was ALL over her, practically fondling her, and that is not the first time I've seen similar things either.

I could explain what is going on but now we have to enter the arena of race and interracial dating.

 

[ChrisL]

I can deal with overweight. Lol! Didn't have a job is something ENTIRELY different. I would never date a supposed "man" who didn't have a job. That means he is not a man, but a child. That means he doesn't have the type of personality that I am interested in. I'm not into video gaming kids. That is entirely different Sgt_Gath.

Even assuming this were strictly true (I have my doubts that you would actually become romantically involved with a legitimately 'ugly' person), all this demonstrates is that you are primarily selecting your sexual partners on the basis of their perceived social status. Frankly, that's exactly what we said women were prone to do in the first place.

There's nothing wrong with it, per se. It's what women are evolved to do.

All I'm saying is that trying to pretend like it doesn't happen is naive.

We've had this discussion before Gath. I've told you that, while I may not approach an unattractive man with the purposes of "starting a relationship," if I liked a guy who was not very attractive but had the personality type that attracts me, then I wouldn't have a problem with dating him, certain extenuating circumstances aside.

Yet, you've never done it...

Well, the guy I had a crush on was QUITE a bit older than me, and he probably would have gone to jail if he dated me. Lol!

So you have to go all the way back to your teenage years to find an example of you being attracted to a man who had low status and even here, to a young girl a man who pays attention to her does make the man somewhat more attractive. Young girls have crushes on older men who they wouldn't even look at when they grow up and enter into the real mating market.

I already told you. I would choose the guy who was more interesting over the guy who was better looking, ANY day. Whether you choose to believe me or not is completely up to you, but that is the truth. Looks are NOT the most important thing to me.

When exactly did we transition to this comparison of men being interesting versus good looking? This isn't a stretch for women. The proper comparison is not to seek out an interesting man but a low status man, a loser, a man that women ignore but a man who is kind and considerate, has a non-threateneing and unexciting personality.

It's men, not women, who are most primed to be attracted to appearance, so you being willing to date an interesting man over an attractive man is the equivalent of me being willing to date an attractive woman over an interesting woman. Yeah, big sacrifice for most guys, right?

How is it a transition? You two are claiming that attractive people will only date other attractive people, and I'm telling you it's not true because it isn't. No, the guy doesn't have to be a billionaire and no the guy doesn't have to have some kind of "social status." He can be just a regular guy with a lot going for him in the personality department. Like I said, I like funny people. A lot of times, I am highly attracted to people that I find to be humorous, and that is a very important quality to me, a sense of humor, because I like to laugh and be happy.

 

[ChrisL]

Well, the guy I had a crush on was QUITE a bit older than me, and he probably would have gone to jail if he dated me. Lol!

So, again, he had social status, and you found that attractive about him, even though his looks weren't up to the level you'd usually go for.

That's exactly how I've been saying this thing works from the very beginning.

All things being equal, people tend to wind up with people on a similar level of attractiveness to themselves. 7s wind up with 6s, 7s, or, if they're lucky, 8s. 2s wind up with 1s, or other 2s, and, more often, alone.

The only thing that really changes this dynamic, at least where female attraction is concerned, is social status.

A high status (wealthy, powerful, influential, etca) 2 or 3 can often attain women that are far "out of his league" simply due to how women tend to perceive him.

Why do you think he had any social status? He was just a typical 20-something year old who hung out with my cousin! He just had a great personality. He was outgoing. He was really funny. He was cool. I liked hanging out with him.

Why does there always have to be an "ulterior motive" with you? And why are you trying SO hard to discount the way I tell you I feel?

An older "man" paying attention to a young teenage girl elevates the status of the guy in the girl's mind. Girls are just getting used to be the objects of interest for men, so you hanging out with a "man" and him paying attention to you is like catnip to a cat.

But the thing is that he didn't really pay that much attention to me. He was my cousin's friend who I had a crush on because I thought he was funny and a great guy. That's all.

 

[Sgt_Gath]

Why do you think he had any social status? He was just a typical 20-something year old who hung out with my cousin! He just had a great personality. He was outgoing. He was really funny. He was cool. I liked hanging out with him.

Why does there always have to be an "ulterior motive" with you? And why are you trying SO hard to discount the way I tell you I feel?

First off, age is a form of social status among teenagers.

Besides which, I'm guessing that he probably had a job, a car, and numerous other things that a teenage girl would find desirable as well, right?

I'm not saying that you have an ulterior motive here, Chris. What I'm saying is that your brain, and your instincts, do, regardless of whether you're actively aware of that fact or not.

It's simply the way women are wired.

Men go after pure physical attractiveness. Women go after physical attractiveness and features which indicate that a man will be a reliable mate, like social status and a stable personality.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Why does there always have to be an "ulterior motive" with you? And why are you trying SO hard to discount the way I tell you I feel?

Because what you feel doesn't matter to anyone but yourself, what matters in a conversation is what you have done. People suffer under delusions all the damn time, they believe pretty little lies.

All you've been sharing with the two men who've been talking with you in this thread are your feelings about what you would do, not one instance of what you have done, even if you actually made it up, it would still be something that was done. That would blunt my criticism - a made up story about how you had a 2 year love affair with a loser coworker that everyone overlooked but with time you got to know him and discovered that he was a prince in the body of a frog.

 

[Sgt_Gath]

Just the other day I saw a GREAT looking black man with a HUGE, EXTREMELY unattractive white woman, and he was ALL over her, practically fondling her, and that is not the first time I've seen similar things either.

Blacks have different standards of beauty than whites do. He probably thought she was just fine.

Besides which, dating a white woman is considered to be a sign of social status for a lot of black men. This makes them more likely to compromise on their standards to be with one even if they are unattractive.

 

[ChrisL]

Why does there always have to be an "ulterior motive" with you? And why are you trying SO hard to discount the way I tell you I feel?

Because what you feel doesn't matter to anyone but yourself, what matters in a conversation is what you have done. People suffer under delusions all the damn time, they believe pretty little lies.

All you've been sharing with the two men who've been talking with you in this thread are your feelings about what you would do, not one instance of what you have done, even if you actually made it up, it would still be something that was done. That would blunt my criticism - a made up story about how you had a 2 year love affair with a loser coworker that everyone overlooked but with time you got to know him and discovered that he was a prince in the body of a frog.

But I said he had to have a "good" personality. Losers do not qualify.

 

[ChrisL]

Why do you think he had any social status? He was just a typical 20-something year old who hung out with my cousin! He just had a great personality. He was outgoing. He was really funny. He was cool. I liked hanging out with him.

Why does there always have to be an "ulterior motive" with you? And why are you trying SO hard to discount the way I tell you I feel?

First off, age is a form of social status among teenagers.

Besides which, I'm guessing that he probably had a job, a car, and numerous other things that a teenage girl would find desirable as well, right?

I'm not saying that you have an ulterior motive here, Chris. What I'm saying is that your brain, and your instincts, do, regardless of whether you're actively aware of that fact or not.

It's simply the way women are wired.

Men go after pure physical attractiveness. Women go after physical attractiveness and features which indicate that a man will be a reliable mate, like social status and a stable personality.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then, because I feel that I liked him because of his personality. I knew plenty of my cousins other friends, some who were attractive, some who weren't, some had jobs, some didn't, etc., and I didn't have a crush on any of them. There was something that I found irresistible about THIS particular guy.

 

[ChrisL]

Just the other day I saw a GREAT looking black man with a HUGE, EXTREMELY unattractive white woman, and he was ALL over her, practically fondling her, and that is not the first time I've seen similar things either.

Blacks have different standards of beauty than whites do. He probably thought she was just fine.

Besides which, dating a white woman is considered to be a sign of social status for a lot of black men. This makes them more likely to compromise on their standards to be with one even if they are unattractive.

Well, he seemed to be PRETTY into her and turned on by her, I must say! I probably would have been embarrassed at such a public display, TBH. Lol!

 

[Sgt_Gath]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then, because I feel that I liked him because of his personality. I knew plenty of my cousins other friends, some who were attractive, some who weren't, some had jobs, some didn't, etc., and I didn't have a crush on any of them. There was something that I found irresistible about THIS particular guy.

Eh. It's impossible to say one way or another just from what you've given us here. I'm simply giving the general rule.

Men tend to be attracted to certain features in women, and women tend to be attracted to certain features men. There are evolutionary reasons for both.

Physical attractiveness in women is a sign of high fertility and good genes.

Physical attractiveness in men is a sign of the same. However, women also look at personality. There is a reason for that as well.

A good sense of humor (one of women's biggest turn-ons), for instance, is a sign of high intelligence in a man, and therefore good genes.

Confidence and a strong work ethic is a sign that a man will be a good protector and provider.

Frankly, even then, it has been both my experience, and shown in numerous studies, that women tend to be more receptive to the charms of a "good personality" when it is coming from an attractive, or high status man.

 

[ChrisL]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree then, because I feel that I liked him because of his personality. I knew plenty of my cousins other friends, some who were attractive, some who weren't, some had jobs, some didn't, etc., and I didn't have a crush on any of them. There was something that I found irresistible about THIS particular guy.

Eh. It's impossible to say one way or another simply from what you've given us here. I'm simply giving the general rule.

Men tend to be attracted to certain features in women, and women tend to be attracted to certain features men. There are evolutionary reasons for both.

Physical attractiveness in women is a sign of high fertility and good genes.

Physical attractiveness in men is a sign of the same. However, women also look at personality. There is a reason for that as well.

A good sense of humor (one of women's biggest turn-ons), for instance, is a sign of high intelligence in a man, and therefore good genes.

Confidence and a strong work ethic is a sign that a man will be a good protector and provider.

Frankly, even then, it has been both my experience, and shown in numerous studies, that women tend to be more receptive to the charms of a "good personality" when it is coming from an attractive, or high status man.

Sometimes good looking guys (really good looking guys) don't really have much of a personality, sad to say. Lol. I dated a guy who was absolutely gorgeous once (from head to toe, a beautiful specimen of man), but what a bore he was! There was just nothing there for me, you know?

I dated another guy who was a body builder, and he was a completely conceited jackass. I'm just not attracted to those kinds of guys, good looking or not. I'm also not into men who are in the mirror more than I am!!! Lol!

 

[ChrisL]

Why does there always have to be an "ulterior motive" with you? And why are you trying SO hard to discount the way I tell you I feel?

Because what you feel doesn't matter to anyone but yourself, what matters in a conversation is what you have done. People suffer under delusions all the damn time, they believe pretty little lies.

All you've been sharing with the two men who've been talking with you in this thread are your feelings about what you would do, not one instance of what you have done, even if you actually made it up, it would still be something that was done. That would blunt my criticism - a made up story about how you had a 2 year love affair with a loser coworker that everyone overlooked but with time you got to know him and discovered that he was a prince in the body of a frog.

Hey, if I could have dated the guy I was referring to, I would have! HE wouldn't date me because I was too young and I was his best friend's little cousin! I was only like 15 years old.

It's the same phenomenon with some popular male actors. They might not necessarily be good looking in the classical sort of way, but there is just something about them that a lot of women might find attractive.

 

[Sgt_Gath]

Sometimes good looking guys (really good looking guys) don't really have much of a personality, sad to say. Lol. I dated a guy who was absolutely gorgeous once (from head to toe, a beautiful specimen of man), but what a bore he was! There was just nothing there for me, you know?

I dated another guy who was a body builder, and he was a completely conceited jackass. I'm just not attracted to those kinds of guys, good looking or not. I'm also not into men who are in the mirror more than I am!!! Lol!

That just means you're sane and have a brain in your head.

 

[ChrisL]

Sometimes good looking guys (really good looking guys) don't really have much of a personality, sad to say. Lol. I dated a guy who was absolutely gorgeous once (from head to toe, a beautiful specimen of man), but what a bore he was! There was just nothing there for me, you know?

I dated another guy who was a body builder, and he was a completely conceited jackass. I'm just not attracted to those kinds of guys, good looking or not. I'm also not into men who are in the mirror more than I am!!! Lol!

That just means you're sane and have a brain in your head.

Well, most of the time anyways. Lol!