Challenge to my liberal friends

[ph3iron]

LOL Nice rant. Do you have a question on the issue of Obstruction of Justice? Did you read the link? If so (and I suspect you didn't) did you understand it?

You still haven't told us what happened, they had meetings, Flynn lied for some reason....that's it... Manafort stuff has nothing to do with Russian Collusion.....so give us a high level look at what you think happened?

• Russia attacked democracy in America
• Russians' met with Team Trump
• Trump has not ever defended our election from what is known about the Russian attack on our democracy. Period: No crime, no time.

However:

• There are two concurrent investigations

1. Russia's impact on our Election
2. Trump&Co. efforts to obstruct #1

Does this help refine the issues?

Here's a fact: Obama was president when the "Russians attacked democracy in America", Trump wasn't.

What did Obama do about it?

He enacted sanctions that Trump lifted. Thanks for asking.

You mean after the gift Obama gave Russia by not enacting the Missile shield in Ukraine and elsewhere in Europe?

and the Ukraine is giving N Korea tech?

North Korea’s Missile Success Is Linked to Ukrainian Plant, Investigators Say


And wasn't Trump adding sanctions to Russia?

Trump administration reveals new list of potential Russia sanctions

What sanctions did he remove?
and I'll ask again,

where is the evidence of collusion?

Wait for mueller genius.
Whitewater took way longer

 

[Wry Catcher]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Seriously? This is no challenge, the evidence is clear. Members of the Trump Team met with Russians. The same members lied about the meetings and attempted to mislead the public and LE on the purpose/agenda of said meetings.

Point: Those issues are not necessarily criminal acts. However, the lack of transparency is suspicious, and the lies to LE are criminal acts.

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

Any questions?

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Seriously? This is no challenge, the evidence is clear. Members of the Trump Team met with Russians. The same members lied about the meetings and attempted to mislead the public and LE on the purpose/agenda of said meetings.

Point: Those issues are not necessarily criminal acts. However, the lack of transparency is suspicious, and the lies to LE are criminal acts.

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

Any questions?

Yes, I understand. According to you no collusion occurred.

According to Trump, no collusion occurred; notice he has not denied a conspiracy occurred to obstruct the investigation into the Russian impact on the 2016 election.

 

[ph3iron]

There was no crime in having oral sex with a 24 year old either, but Clinton was nailed for lying about it under oath.

Ummm... yeah... having consensual sex with another adult is not a crime, PERJURY on the other hand is.

absolutely, it is a form of obstruction of justice....via lying and can send investigators on a wild goose chase....

Perjury and Obstruction are two distinctly different things... using your example if Clinton had refused to answer the court order to respond to discovery then he may have been guilty of obstruction but since he chose to lie about it on a pre-trial discovery sworn affidavit he was guilty of perjury not obstruction, the (2) obstruction of justice charges Clinton was impeached on stemmed from his efforts to convince Lewinsky to cover up their relationship, the perjury charge he was impeached on stemmed from his lying under oath.


.

Obstruction of Justice, does not have to have an underlying crime, nor does perjury...

How the hell would a case of obstruction or perjury ever arise without either an accusation of a crime or a civil lawsuit being filed? Are you imagining we just perform investigations, perform pre-trial discovery and conduct trials just for the fun of it? I know our justice system is screwed up but it's not THAT BAD yet.

Using your example : Clinton wasn't being investigated for sex with Monica Lewinsky however his relationship with Monica Lewinsky was deemed material to what he was being investigated (sexual harassment lawsuit filed by Paula Jones), hence he was required to testify (via sworn affidavit during pre-trial discovery) and since he chose to lie under oath pursuant to the inquiry of a civil infraction was guilty of perjury and his efforts to convince Ms. Lewinsky to cover up their relationship made him guilty of obstruction of justice.

The elements for a federal obstruction of justice conviction are based on the specific part of the federal code that criminalizes behavior. For example, the elements for influencing or injuring an officer or juror include that there was a pending federal case, the defendant was aware of the proceeding and the defendant had the corrupt intent to interfere with the proceeding or did attempt to interfere with the proceeding. An attempt to obstruct is sufficient to justify a charge of this nature.

Uh-huh and your point is?

You have to have a point in the white high school educated boys forum?
Thought all you have to do is spew your made up mind

 

[Marion Morrison]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Seriously? This is no challenge, the evidence is clear. Members of the Trump Team met with Russians. The same members lied about the meetings and attempted to mislead the public and LE on the purpose/agenda of said meetings.

Point: Those issues are not necessarily criminal acts. However, the lack of transparency is suspicious, and the lies to LE are criminal acts.

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

Any questions?

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Seriously? This is no challenge, the evidence is clear. Members of the Trump Team met with Russians. The same members lied about the meetings and attempted to mislead the public and LE on the purpose/agenda of said meetings.

Point: Those issues are not necessarily criminal acts. However, the lack of transparency is suspicious, and the lies to LE are criminal acts.

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

Any questions?

Yes, I understand. According to you no collusion occurred.

According to Trump, no collusion occurred; notice he has not denied a conspiracy occurred to obstruct the investigation into the Russian impact on the 2016 election.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Seriously? This is no challenge, the evidence is clear. Members of the Trump Team met with Russians. The same members lied about the meetings and attempted to mislead the public and LE on the purpose/agenda of said meetings.

Point: Those issues are not necessarily criminal acts. However, the lack of transparency is suspicious, and the lies to LE are criminal acts.

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

Any questions?

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Seriously? This is no challenge, the evidence is clear. Members of the Trump Team met with Russians. The same members lied about the meetings and attempted to mislead the public and LE on the purpose/agenda of said meetings.

Point: Those issues are not necessarily criminal acts. However, the lack of transparency is suspicious, and the lies to LE are criminal acts.

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

Any questions?

Yes, I understand. According to you no collusion occurred.

According to Trump, no collusion occurred; notice he has not denied a conspiracy occurred to obstruct the investigation into the Russian impact on the 2016 election.

Ah yes, the seriousness of the charge, got it, but screw the evidence that PROVES, one big NOTHING BURGER.. Got it...

 

[Wry Catcher]

Obstruction of Justice, does not have to have an underlying crime, nor does perjury...

How the hell would a case of obstruction or perjury ever arise without either an accusation of a crime or a civil lawsuit being filed? Are you imagining we just perform investigations, perform pre-trial discovery and conduct trials just for the fun of it? I know our justice system is screwed up but it's not THAT BAD yet.
.

by interfering with an official investigation.

Official Investigation of WHAT?

There are two concurrent investigations: 1) Russia's involvement in the 2016 election; and 2) The obstruction of justice.

The evidence thus far suggests (strongly) that Russia is culpable, and it is clear to me and maybe a 100 million others that the Republican's in the H. of Rep., and a smaller cadre in the Senate, and the White House are not concerned about part 1; they may in fact be stultifying the separate investigations in Congress, and in the White House they are doing a dog and pony show starring Stephanie Sanders and Donald Trump.

 

[buckeye45_73]

You still haven't told us what happened, they had meetings, Flynn lied for some reason....that's it... Manafort stuff has nothing to do with Russian Collusion.....so give us a high level look at what you think happened?

• Russia attacked democracy in America
• Russians' met with Team Trump
• Trump has not ever defended our election from what is known about the Russian attack on our democracy. Period: No crime, no time.

However:

• There are two concurrent investigations

1. Russia's impact on our Election
2. Trump&Co. efforts to obstruct #1

Does this help refine the issues?

Here's a fact: Obama was president when the "Russians attacked democracy in America", Trump wasn't.

What did Obama do about it?

He enacted sanctions that Trump lifted. Thanks for asking.

You mean after the gift Obama gave Russia by not enacting the Missile shield in Ukraine and elsewhere in Europe?

and the Ukraine is giving N Korea tech?

North Korea’s Missile Success Is Linked to Ukrainian Plant, Investigators Say


And wasn't Trump adding sanctions to Russia?

Trump administration reveals new list of potential Russia sanctions

What sanctions did he remove?
and I'll ask again,

where is the evidence of collusion?

Wait for mueller genius.
Whitewater took way longer

Even during the Whitewater investigation, we have more evidence of crimes made public during the investigation than we do now. All the counts, which are around 4, have had nothing to do with Russian collusion, and only one had to do with a meeting on Trump's behalf.....the rest were unrelated to Trump.

 

[Alexanderful]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

The theory is very very simple and I'm surprised you still don't understand it:

In 2014 for it's Ukrainian mis-adventures Russia got slammed with crippling international sanctions that contracted it's economy by about 2% GDP a year ( and landing it in recession) and limits travel and financial dealings for Putin's oligarchs.

Putin's regime responded by ordered hacking and disruption of election in various countries, including United States where Clinton (his regime's enemy #1) was running for President. At the same time Trump has been kissing putting ass for years due to Russian billionaire investments in his organization and possibility of Trump tower project in Moscow. Trumps nomination was an amazing gift to Russians, they could not dream of anyone more friendly to their interests and wanted to do everything in their power to ensure his electoral win.

Most obvious collusion would be in Russian government hacking and publicizing "dirt on Clinton" (possibly with direction from the Trump campaign) in exchange for Trump's incoming administration delivering sanctions relief. Campaign was also involved in pushing Moscow propaganda during the campaign and softening Republican anti-Russia rhetoric.

Popadapolous lied about his discussions with Russians about dirt on Hillary.
Flynn got caught lying about discussing sanctions with Russians
Trump Jr. got caught meeting with Russians about dirt on Hillary and his daddy, president Trump got caught blatantly lying about the substance of that meeting to the public.

OK, thanks for first real response to this post! It's funny how the posts that start out with a condescending jab are often based on the weakest foundation. Most of this seems like a "wish list" of crimes rather than anything supportable by any evidence.

There is no actual evidence or credible reporting there was a quid pro quo between Trump and Putin. His pro-Russia rhetoric during the election and business ties are not illegal or unethical. His post-election foreign policy toward Russia is not overly accommodating which does not suggest a quid pro quo existed. (Trump’s policies toward Russia have proved surprisingly tough - The Boston Globe).

However, it's clear that Russia wanted Trump to win and hacked the DNC and mounted a Facebook social media campaign. Nobody has ever suggested this was Trump's doing. Trump foolishly refused to believe it because he couldn't see past his disdain for HRC/Obama. It appears Russia did bait Don Jr. into that infamous meeting but nothing came out of that meeting and it was never pursued any further. Trump did dictate a statement that cast that meeting as a discussion about the Magnitsky Act (which probably was discussed based on Russian obsession with this issue) but this was a statement to the NY Times. Even if it wasn't true there is no crime in lying to the NYT.

So...that leaves us back where we started. Where is the crime?

 

[Alexanderful]

Obstruction of Justice, does not have to have an underlying crime, nor does perjury...

How the hell would a case of obstruction or perjury ever arise without either an accusation of a crime or a civil lawsuit being filed? Are you imagining we just perform investigations, perform pre-trial discovery and conduct trials just for the fun of it? I know our justice system is screwed up but it's not THAT BAD yet.
.

by interfering with an official investigation.

Official Investigation of WHAT?

There are two concurrent investigations: 1) Russia's involvement in the 2016 election; and 2) The obstruction of justice.

The evidence thus far suggests (strongly) that Russia is culpable, and it is clear to me and maybe a 100 million others that the Republican's in the H. of Rep., and a smaller cadre in the Senate, and in the White House are not concerned about part 1; they may in fact be stultifying their separate investigations in Congress and in the White House is doing a dog and pony show starring Stephanie Sanders and Donald Trump.

I agree. All Americans left, right, and center should be furious about Russia meddling with our election and that is where the real focus should be to ensure we are protected against this 2020 and beyond. But, the left's seething at Trump's victory has diverted all the attention to the hope of uncovering some "collusion" to impeach Trump. It's a reboot of the pathetic "birther" movement that tried to overturn the Obama win. I guess Trump is getting karma but it's still a boondoggle.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Seriously? This is no challenge, the evidence is clear. Members of the Trump Team met with Russians. The same members lied about the meetings and attempted to mislead the public and LE on the purpose/agenda of said meetings.

Point: Those issues are not necessarily criminal acts. However, the lack of transparency is suspicious, and the lies to LE are criminal acts.

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

Any questions?

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Seriously? This is no challenge, the evidence is clear. Members of the Trump Team met with Russians. The same members lied about the meetings and attempted to mislead the public and LE on the purpose/agenda of said meetings.

Point: Those issues are not necessarily criminal acts. However, the lack of transparency is suspicious, and the lies to LE are criminal acts.

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

Any questions?

Yes, I understand. According to you no collusion occurred.

According to Trump, no collusion occurred; notice he has not denied a conspiracy occurred to obstruct the investigation into the Russian impact on the 2016 election.

Ah yes, the seriousness of the charge, got it, but screw the evidence that PROVES, one big NOTHING BURGER.. Got it...

For the final time, the investigation is on going. That fools like you continue to make the same objections is demonstrative of your lack of education, and/or your inability to learn.

 

[jc456]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Will you please change your title to "Leftist" friends, or "Communist" friends?

They are NOT liberals.

I get tired of that, too. Here's how to tell the difference between a Liberal and a Leftist:

A Liberal will listen to your opinion and either provide counterpoint or agree with you.

A Leftist will try to ridicule, shout down, or otherwise silence you. It's their way or the highway.

The Democrat party has been largely compromised by Commie Leftists who are NOT Liberals, not completely, but largely.

Not all Democrats are Leftists.


Keep that in mind, pls, people.

where did all the liberals go then?

 

[NYcarbineer]

lol, so if Trump gets busted for obstruction of justice,

you people are saying that he will have obstructed an investigation into crimes he never committed?

that would be awesome!

There was no crime in having oral sex with a 24 year old either, but Clinton was nailed for lying about it under oath.

Ummm... yeah... having consensual sex with another adult is not a crime, PERJURY on the other hand is.

Clinton wasn't convicted of perjury.

 

[Alexanderful]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance.

When? Where? How? Reported by what credible source?

 

[jc456]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Seriously? This is no challenge, the evidence is clear. Members of the Trump Team met with Russians. The same members lied about the meetings and attempted to mislead the public and LE on the purpose/agenda of said meetings.

Point: Those issues are not necessarily criminal acts. However, the lack of transparency is suspicious, and the lies to LE are criminal acts.

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

Any questions?

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Seriously? This is no challenge, the evidence is clear. Members of the Trump Team met with Russians. The same members lied about the meetings and attempted to mislead the public and LE on the purpose/agenda of said meetings.

Point: Those issues are not necessarily criminal acts. However, the lack of transparency is suspicious, and the lies to LE are criminal acts.

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

Any questions?

Yes, I understand. According to you no collusion occurred.

According to Trump, no collusion occurred; notice he has not denied a conspiracy occurred to obstruct the investigation into the Russian impact on the 2016 election.

Ah yes, the seriousness of the charge, got it, but screw the evidence that PROVES, one big NOTHING BURGER.. Got it...

For the final time, the investigation is on going. That fools like you continue to make the same objections is demonstrative of your lack of education, and/or your inability to learn.

no, no, what was the evidence that started the investigation is the question. why are you so stupid? what is it you think they colluded on and did? I mean shit, we got this two year thing going on. you can't point to one thing on how it got going? NOTHING?

 

[NYcarbineer]

lol, so if Trump gets busted for obstruction of justice,

you people are saying that he will have obstructed an investigation into crimes he never committed?

that would be awesome!

Obstruction of Justice for What? Come on libtards, man up and tell US. Stop beating a dead donkey..

You're stupid. You can obstruct justice even if no crime is eventually discovered.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance.

When? Where? How? Reported by what credible source?

Name the sources you consider credible.

 

[jc456]

lol, so if Trump gets busted for obstruction of justice,

you people are saying that he will have obstructed an investigation into crimes he never committed?

that would be awesome!

Obstruction of Justice for What? Come on libtards, man up and tell US. Stop beating a dead donkey..

You're stupid. You can obstruct justice even if no crime is eventually discovered.

explain

 

[Alexanderful]

Talking about criminal activity and misleading the public, the Lame Stream Media not only lied about President Trump but lied to you shithole liberals, that Hitlery was going to win by a landslide. Why aren't you going after lame stream media for colluding against you? Because stupid is as stupid votes, and they vote Democrat..

LOL Nice rant. Do you have a question on the issue of Obstruction of Justice? Did you read the link? If so (and I suspect you didn't) did you understand it?

You still haven't told us what happened, they had meetings, Flynn lied for some reason....that's it... Manafort stuff has nothing to do with Russian Collusion.....so give us a high level look at what you think happened?

• Russia attacked democracy in America
• Russians' met with Team Trump
• Trump has not ever defended our election from what is known about the Russian attack on our democracy. Period: No crime, no time.

However:

• There are two concurrent investigations

1. Russia's impact on our Election
2. Trump&Co. efforts to obstruct #1

Does this help refine the issues?

Here's a fact: Obama was president when the "Russians attacked democracy in America", Trump wasn't.

What did Obama do about it?

He enacted sanctions that Trump lifted. Thanks for asking.

Which sanctions did he lift and when? I expect no response to this question.

 

[NYcarbineer]

lol, so if Trump gets busted for obstruction of justice,

you people are saying that he will have obstructed an investigation into crimes he never committed?

that would be awesome!

Obstruction of Justice for What? Come on libtards, man up and tell US. Stop beating a dead donkey..

You're stupid. You can obstruct justice even if no crime is eventually discovered.

explain

An investigation is conducted to see whether or not crimes were committed. It is a crime to obstruct the investigation, no matter what the investigators ultimately discover. You're obstructing a procedure.

 

[Alexanderful]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

The Russia investigations are not the purview of "liberals," nor is it incumbent upon "liberals" to justify the investigations.

The investigations are warranted because there is ample objective evidence of Russia's interference with the 2016 General Election and wrongdoing on the part of Trump offficials.

You are correct...if I knew how to change the title of this post I would. Not questioning validity of the investigation...agree it needed to occur. My point was really that so many people are elatedly CONVINCED that some collusion happened when there is almost no real evidence anything occurred. They just refer to it hopefully in broad terms. All these perjury crimes are either unrelated (Manafort/Gates) or due to stupidity of unnecessarily lying about things that weren't even crimes (Flynn/Papadoppoulos).