Challenge to my liberal friends

[Wry Catcher]

Obstruction of Justice, does not have to have an underlying crime, nor does perjury...

How the hell would a case of obstruction or perjury ever arise without either an accusation of a crime or a civil lawsuit being filed? Are you imagining we just perform investigations, perform pre-trial discovery and conduct trials just for the fun of it? I know our justice system is screwed up but it's not THAT BAD yet.
.

by interfering with an official investigation.

Official Investigation of WHAT?

There are two concurrent investigations: 1) Russia's involvement in the 2016 election; and 2) The obstruction of justice.

The evidence thus far suggests (strongly) that Russia is culpable, and it is clear to me and maybe a 100 million others that the Republican's in the H. of Rep., and a smaller cadre in the Senate, and in the White House are not concerned about part 1; they may in fact be stultifying their separate investigations in Congress and in the White House is doing a dog and pony show starring Stephanie Sanders and Donald Trump.

I agree. All Americans left, right, and center should be furious about Russia meddling with our election and that is where the real focus should be to ensure we are protected against this 2020 and beyond.

But, the left's seething at Trump's victory has diverted all the attention to the hope of uncovering some "collusion" to impeach Trump. It's a reboot of the pathetic "birther" movement that tried to overturn the Obama win. I guess Trump is getting karma but it's still a boondoggle.

I separated your post into two paragraphs for clarity:

In re #1, I agree, but the investigation of #1 will hopefully discover the who, when, where and the how of the Putin attack on our democracy, and we need that completed now! The next general election is in a little more than nine months.

Trump&Co. and too many members of the Congress are not focused on this critical need! WHY?

In re #2: I completely reject this theory. The suspicion that Trump&Co. obstructed a thorough and complete understanding of the incursion of Russia on our election is not based on sour grapes. It is based on Trump's own actions which have been reported over and over again. The firing of Comey opened the door to #2 and Trump's tweets and speeches, efforts to wag the dog, and his attacks on Federal Law Enforcement & the DOJ lends credence to the validity of investigation #2.

 

[NightFox]

lol, so if Trump gets busted for obstruction of justice,

you people are saying that he will have obstructed an investigation into crimes he never committed?

that would be awesome!

There was no crime in having oral sex with a 24 year old either, but Clinton was nailed for lying about it under oath.

Ummm... yeah... having consensual sex with another adult is not a crime, PERJURY on the other hand is.

Clinton wasn't convicted of perjury.

Learn how to read, nobody said he was convicted of perjury.

Now run along and attempt to build your straw men elsewhere.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Seriously? This is no challenge, the evidence is clear. Members of the Trump Team met with Russians. The same members lied about the meetings and attempted to mislead the public and LE on the purpose/agenda of said meetings.

Point: Those issues are not necessarily criminal acts. However, the lack of transparency is suspicious, and the lies to LE are criminal acts.

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

Any questions?

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Seriously? This is no challenge, the evidence is clear. Members of the Trump Team met with Russians. The same members lied about the meetings and attempted to mislead the public and LE on the purpose/agenda of said meetings.

Point: Those issues are not necessarily criminal acts. However, the lack of transparency is suspicious, and the lies to LE are criminal acts.

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

Any questions?

Yes, I understand. According to you no collusion occurred.

According to Trump, no collusion occurred; notice he has not denied a conspiracy occurred to obstruct the investigation into the Russian impact on the 2016 election.

Ah yes, the seriousness of the charge, got it, but screw the evidence that PROVES, one big NOTHING BURGER.. Got it...

For the final time, the investigation is on going. That fools like you continue to make the same objections is demonstrative of your lack of education, and/or your inability to learn.

Investigations into Russia Collusions? Not a crime...Lying about a movie while 4 US citizens died in Benghazi, a crime.. nothing to see here, move along, fucking worthless hypocrites..

 

[Alexanderful]

lol, so if Trump gets busted for obstruction of justice,

you people are saying that he will have obstructed an investigation into crimes he never committed?

that would be awesome!

Obstruction of Justice for What? Come on libtards, man up and tell US. Stop beating a dead donkey..

You're stupid. You can obstruct justice even if no crime is eventually discovered.

explain

An investigation is conducted to see whether or not crimes were committed. It is a crime to obstruct the investigation, no matter what the investigators ultimately discover. You're obstructing a procedure.

But where is the obstruction? So far we know that two people have been indicted on unrelated charges (Manafort/Gates) and two people unnecessarily perjured themselves for things that weren't even illegal (Flynn/Papadopoulos).

 

[jc456]

lol, so if Trump gets busted for obstruction of justice,

you people are saying that he will have obstructed an investigation into crimes he never committed?

that would be awesome!

Obstruction of Justice for What? Come on libtards, man up and tell US. Stop beating a dead donkey..

You're stupid. You can obstruct justice even if no crime is eventually discovered.

explain

An investigation is conducted to see whether or not crimes were committed. It is a crime to obstruct the investigation, no matter what the investigators ultimately discover. You're obstructing a procedure.

who's obstructing an investigation?

 

[jc456]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

The Russia investigations are not the purview of "liberals," nor is it incumbent upon "liberals" to justify the investigations.

The investigations are warranted because there is ample objective evidence of Russia's interference with the 2016 General Election and wrongdoing on the part of Trump offficials.

You are correct...if I knew how to change the title of this post I would. Not questioning validity of the investigation...agree it needed to occur. My point was really that so many people are elatedly CONVINCED that some collusion happened when there is almost no real evidence anything occurred. They just refer to it hopefully in broad terms. All these perjury crimes are either unrelated (Manafort/Gates) or due to stupidity of unnecessarily lying about things that weren't even crimes (Flynn/Papadoppoulos).

agree it needed to occur

based on what?

 

[jc456]

Obstruction of Justice, does not have to have an underlying crime, nor does perjury...

How the hell would a case of obstruction or perjury ever arise without either an accusation of a crime or a civil lawsuit being filed? Are you imagining we just perform investigations, perform pre-trial discovery and conduct trials just for the fun of it? I know our justice system is screwed up but it's not THAT BAD yet.
.

by interfering with an official investigation.

Official Investigation of WHAT?

There are two concurrent investigations: 1) Russia's involvement in the 2016 election; and 2) The obstruction of justice.

The evidence thus far suggests (strongly) that Russia is culpable, and it is clear to me and maybe a 100 million others that the Republican's in the H. of Rep., and a smaller cadre in the Senate, and in the White House are not concerned about part 1; they may in fact be stultifying their separate investigations in Congress and in the White House is doing a dog and pony show starring Stephanie Sanders and Donald Trump.

I agree. All Americans left, right, and center should be furious about Russia meddling with our election and that is where the real focus should be to ensure we are protected against this 2020 and beyond.

But, the left's seething at Trump's victory has diverted all the attention to the hope of uncovering some "collusion" to impeach Trump. It's a reboot of the pathetic "birther" movement that tried to overturn the Obama win. I guess Trump is getting karma but it's still a boondoggle.

I separated your post into two paragraphs for clarity:

In re #1, I agree, but the investigation of #1 will hopefully discover the who, when, where and the how of the Putin attack on our democracy, and we need that completed now! The next general election is in a little more than nine months.

Trump&Co. and too many members of the Congress are not focused on this critical need! WHY?

In re #2: I completely reject this theory. The suspicion that Trump&Co. obstructed a thorough and complete understanding of the incursion of Russia on our election is not based on sour grapes. It is based on Trump's own actions which have been reported over and over again. The firing of Comey opened the door to #2 and Trump's tweets and speeches, efforts to wag the dog, and his attacks on Federal Law Enforcement & the DOJ lends credence to the validity of investigation #2.

Trump's own actions which have been reported over and over again.

what was that?

 

[Alexanderful]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

The Russia investigations are not the purview of "liberals," nor is it incumbent upon "liberals" to justify the investigations.

The investigations are warranted because there is ample objective evidence of Russia's interference with the 2016 General Election and wrongdoing on the part of Trump offficials.

You are correct...if I knew how to change the title of this post I would. Not questioning validity of the investigation...agree it needed to occur. My point was really that so many people are elatedly CONVINCED that some collusion happened when there is almost no real evidence anything occurred. They just refer to it hopefully in broad terms. All these perjury crimes are either unrelated (Manafort/Gates) or due to stupidity of unnecessarily lying about things that weren't even crimes (Flynn/Papadoppoulos).

agree it needed to occur

based on what?

I don't think the evidence supports it at this point in the game but there was a time when there was a reasonable appearance that the Trump campaign may have dealt with the Russians in an effort to get dirt on HRC. Also, the real issue in all of this was Trump asking Comey to "let it go" with Micheal Flynn and asking for loyalty. In our government, agency heads are loyal to the Constitution not the sitting President. I personally believe this was more a product of Trump's coming from the business world and being new to government. This turned out to be a bad ask by Trump since Flynn actually had some shady stuff going on and then foolishly lied about meeting with the Russians which was not even illegal. However, I think the DOJ should have conducted the investigation and this special counsel has been milking this for WAY too long.

 

[Alexanderful]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance.

When? Where? How? Reported by what credible source?

Name the sources you consider credible.

Any source that has a reasonable reputation on the left or right. I'll even accept the Washington Post or New York Times. "Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance." is a blatant untruth so I'll take any decent source to back this up. A more neutral source would be even better.

 

[Wry Catcher]

lol, so if Trump gets busted for obstruction of justice,

you people are saying that he will have obstructed an investigation into crimes he never committed?

that would be awesome!

Obstruction of Justice for What? Come on libtards, man up and tell US. Stop beating a dead donkey..

You're stupid. You can obstruct justice even if no crime is eventually discovered.

explain

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

 

[jc456]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

The Russia investigations are not the purview of "liberals," nor is it incumbent upon "liberals" to justify the investigations.

The investigations are warranted because there is ample objective evidence of Russia's interference with the 2016 General Election and wrongdoing on the part of Trump offficials.

You are correct...if I knew how to change the title of this post I would. Not questioning validity of the investigation...agree it needed to occur. My point was really that so many people are elatedly CONVINCED that some collusion happened when there is almost no real evidence anything occurred. They just refer to it hopefully in broad terms. All these perjury crimes are either unrelated (Manafort/Gates) or due to stupidity of unnecessarily lying about things that weren't even crimes (Flynn/Papadoppoulos).

agree it needed to occur

based on what?

I don't think the evidence supports it at this point in the game but there was a time when there was a reasonable appearance that the Trump campaign may have dealt with the Russians in an effort to get dirt on HRC. Also, the real issue in all of this was Trump asking Comey to "let it go" with Micheal Flynn and asking for loyalty. In our government, agency heads are loyal to the Constitution not the sitting President. I personally believe this was more a product of Trump's coming from the business world and being new to government. This turned out to be a bad ask by Trump since Flynn actually had some shady stuff going on and then foolishly lied about meeting with the Russians which was not even illegal. However, I think the DOJ should have conducted the investigation and this special counsel has been milking this for WAY too long.

no that information came later. Now you made the comment it had to occur. why? wouldn't it be helpful to understand what started the accusation about Russia? I swear by every bone in my body it was the DNC server. And do you know that as I type today, that server was never looked at? It's hilarious the pompous nature of the lefts in this country.

 

[jc456]

lol, so if Trump gets busted for obstruction of justice,

you people are saying that he will have obstructed an investigation into crimes he never committed?

that would be awesome!

Obstruction of Justice for What? Come on libtards, man up and tell US. Stop beating a dead donkey..

You're stupid. You can obstruct justice even if no crime is eventually discovered.

explain

See: OSBA | What You Should Know about Obstruction of Justice

who's obstructing anything?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance.

When? Where? How? Reported by what credible source?

Name the sources you consider credible.

Any source that has a reasonable reputation on the left or right. I'll even accept the Washington Post or New York Times. "Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance." is a blatant untruth so I'll take any decent source to back this up. A more neutral source would be even better.

The neutral source is Mueller. It is not either of the investigations underway in the Congress.

Mueller is following the money, and no doubt there is lots of money to follow.

 

[Alexanderful]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

The Russia investigations are not the purview of "liberals," nor is it incumbent upon "liberals" to justify the investigations.

The investigations are warranted because there is ample objective evidence of Russia's interference with the 2016 General Election and wrongdoing on the part of Trump offficials.

You are correct...if I knew how to change the title of this post I would. Not questioning validity of the investigation...agree it needed to occur. My point was really that so many people are elatedly CONVINCED that some collusion happened when there is almost no real evidence anything occurred. They just refer to it hopefully in broad terms. All these perjury crimes are either unrelated (Manafort/Gates) or due to stupidity of unnecessarily lying about things that weren't even crimes (Flynn/Papadoppoulos).

agree it needed to occur

based on what?

I don't think the evidence supports it at this point in the game but there was a time when there was a reasonable appearance that the Trump campaign may have dealt with the Russians in an effort to get dirt on HRC. Also, the real issue in all of this was Trump asking Comey to "let it go" with Micheal Flynn and asking for loyalty. In our government, agency heads are loyal to the Constitution not the sitting President. I personally believe this was more a product of Trump's coming from the business world and being new to government. This turned out to be a bad ask by Trump since Flynn actually had some shady stuff going on and then foolishly lied about meeting with the Russians which was not even illegal. However, I think the DOJ should have conducted the investigation and this special counsel has been milking this for WAY too long.

no that information came later. Now you made the comment it had to occur. why? wouldn't it be helpful to understand what started the accusation about Russia? I swear by every bone in my body it was the DNC server. And do you know that as I type today, that server was never looked at? It's hilarious the pompous nature of the lefts in this country.

Good point...I will post a new thread tomorrow based on this.

 

[Alexanderful]

Here is the challenge:

There has been so much talk about how the Trump campaign "colluded" with Russia but almost no talk of exactly "how" did the team "collude". Explain your theory about how the Trump team specifically and tangibly "colluded" with Russia to influence the election?

Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance.

When? Where? How? Reported by what credible source?

Name the sources you consider credible.

Any source that has a reasonable reputation on the left or right. I'll even accept the Washington Post or New York Times. "Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance." is a blatant untruth so I'll take any decent source to back this up. A more neutral source would be even better.

The neutral source is Mueller. It is not either of the investigations underway in the Congress.

Mueller is following the money, and no doubt there is lots of money to follow.

Ok...seriously though. I responded to a poster who claimed "Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance." IF Mueller concludes that is a true statement then "All hail President Pence". But, there is literally no reason to believe that right now other than wishful thinking.

 

[jc456]

Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance.

When? Where? How? Reported by what credible source?

Name the sources you consider credible.

Any source that has a reasonable reputation on the left or right. I'll even accept the Washington Post or New York Times. "Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance." is a blatant untruth so I'll take any decent source to back this up. A more neutral source would be even better.

The neutral source is Mueller. It is not either of the investigations underway in the Congress.

Mueller is following the money, and no doubt there is lots of money to follow.

Ok...seriously though. I responded to a poster who claimed "Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance." IF Mueller concludes that is a true statement then "All hail President Pence". But, there is literally no reason to believe that right now other than wishful thinking.

Trump did ask the Russians to release Hitlery's emails if they had them. Is that the assistance? LOL. why wasn't Hitlery in jail for bleach bitting her pcs and phones and deleting subpoenaed emails? why is no one on the left calling for her to be locked up. IT'S ILLEGAL. every leftist is a hypocrite bigger than the moon.

 

[Alexanderful]

When? Where? How? Reported by what credible source?

Name the sources you consider credible.

Any source that has a reasonable reputation on the left or right. I'll even accept the Washington Post or New York Times. "Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance." is a blatant untruth so I'll take any decent source to back this up. A more neutral source would be even better.

The neutral source is Mueller. It is not either of the investigations underway in the Congress.

Mueller is following the money, and no doubt there is lots of money to follow.

Ok...seriously though. I responded to a poster who claimed "Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance." IF Mueller concludes that is a true statement then "All hail President Pence". But, there is literally no reason to believe that right now other than wishful thinking.

Trump did ask the Russians to release Hitlery's emails if they had them. Is that the assistance? LOL. why wasn't Hitlery in jail for bleach bitting her pcs and phones and deleting subpoenaed emails? why is no one on the left calling for her to be locked up. IT'S ILLEGAL. every leftist is a hypocrite bigger than the moon.

Yes...he "asked" them via Twitter in front of all of America in what was clearly sarcasm intended to highlight the hypocrisy. But people think that was "collusion"...on Twitter?

 

[jc456]

Name the sources you consider credible.

Any source that has a reasonable reputation on the left or right. I'll even accept the Washington Post or New York Times. "Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance." is a blatant untruth so I'll take any decent source to back this up. A more neutral source would be even better.

The neutral source is Mueller. It is not either of the investigations underway in the Congress.

Mueller is following the money, and no doubt there is lots of money to follow.

Ok...seriously though. I responded to a poster who claimed "Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance." IF Mueller concludes that is a true statement then "All hail President Pence". But, there is literally no reason to believe that right now other than wishful thinking.

Trump did ask the Russians to release Hitlery's emails if they had them. Is that the assistance? LOL. why wasn't Hitlery in jail for bleach bitting her pcs and phones and deleting subpoenaed emails? why is no one on the left calling for her to be locked up. IT'S ILLEGAL. every leftist is a hypocrite bigger than the moon.

Yes...he "asked" them via Twitter in front of all of America in what was clearly sarcasm intended to highlight the hypocrisy. But people think that was "collusion"...on Twitter?

It was brilliant. FK her and FK the left.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The Russia investigations are not the purview of "liberals," nor is it incumbent upon "liberals" to justify the investigations.

The investigations are warranted because there is ample objective evidence of Russia's interference with the 2016 General Election and wrongdoing on the part of Trump offficials.

You are correct...if I knew how to change the title of this post I would. Not questioning validity of the investigation...agree it needed to occur. My point was really that so many people are elatedly CONVINCED that some collusion happened when there is almost no real evidence anything occurred. They just refer to it hopefully in broad terms. All these perjury crimes are either unrelated (Manafort/Gates) or due to stupidity of unnecessarily lying about things that weren't even crimes (Flynn/Papadoppoulos).

agree it needed to occur

based on what?

I don't think the evidence supports it at this point in the game but there was a time when there was a reasonable appearance that the Trump campaign may have dealt with the Russians in an effort to get dirt on HRC. Also, the real issue in all of this was Trump asking Comey to "let it go" with Micheal Flynn and asking for loyalty. In our government, agency heads are loyal to the Constitution not the sitting President. I personally believe this was more a product of Trump's coming from the business world and being new to government. This turned out to be a bad ask by Trump since Flynn actually had some shady stuff going on and then foolishly lied about meeting with the Russians which was not even illegal. However, I think the DOJ should have conducted the investigation and this special counsel has been milking this for WAY too long.

no that information came later. Now you made the comment it had to occur. why? wouldn't it be helpful to understand what started the accusation about Russia? I swear by every bone in my body it was the DNC server. And do you know that as I type today, that server was never looked at? It's hilarious the pompous nature of the lefts in this country.

Good point...I will post a new thread tomorrow based on this.

Ask these two questions:

• How do we protect our democratic institutions from foreign attacks
• Did any America citizen conspire for any reason - money, power, sex, etc. - with a foreign power to influence our election

 

[Care4all]

When? Where? How? Reported by what credible source?

Name the sources you consider credible.

Any source that has a reasonable reputation on the left or right. I'll even accept the Washington Post or New York Times. "Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance." is a blatant untruth so I'll take any decent source to back this up. A more neutral source would be even better.

The neutral source is Mueller. It is not either of the investigations underway in the Congress.

Mueller is following the money, and no doubt there is lots of money to follow.

Ok...seriously though. I responded to a poster who claimed "Mr. Trump specifically asked for Russian assistance." IF Mueller concludes that is a true statement then "All hail President Pence". But, there is literally no reason to believe that right now other than wishful thinking.

Trump did ask the Russians to release Hitlery's emails if they had them. Is that the assistance? LOL. why wasn't Hitlery in jail for bleach bitting her pcs and phones and deleting subpoenaed emails? why is no one on the left calling for her to be locked up. IT'S ILLEGAL. every leftist is a hypocrite bigger than the moon.

the personal emails she deleted were NEVER SUBPOENAED, only govt related emails.... is my understanding of it...

subpoenas are specific and narrow for us citizens and are not issued by a judge for a wide fishing net the gvt can use to find some dirt on us.... they have to state specifically what they are looking for and what info on a crime they think they will find.