Christian friends of gays and lesbians

[logical4u]

logical4U, I know of not one instance in which anyone has suggested teaching kindergartners about homosexuality (or heterosexuality). I think you are confused. There has been some effort made to assure that older kids (middle school, high school) are treated respectfully if they are GLBT.

As for GLBT people "infiltrating schools"; are you suggesting that such people cannot be good, even great teachers? Because I can assure you, you are wrong there...,but it is something I only happen to know because I have GLBT friends who are teachers and are fantabulous at it. I have never known a single teacher in my entire life who displayed his or her personal life in the classroom...have you?

Follow the public school in Montana: home schoolers are saying if they taught their own children the curriculum the school is planning on teaching, they would be arrested for child porn or worse. Pay attention what the California schools are doing in regards to teaching homosexuality. Why do you think "home-schooling" has become so popular? The schools are not teaching morality, but lewdness and perversity.

 

[logical4u]

Where is the deceit, logical4U? Wouldn't it be more deceitful to force people to hide their personal lives?

Come-on Madeline... you speak intelligently, think about it....

 

[logical4u]

So you feel the GLBT community is engaged in some conspiracy and that their stated goals are not what they really want. They are not seeking respect or tolerance. They actually want something else.

So tell us, logical4U, what is this something else?

You answer my question first.

Okay. What is your question?

Sorry, I had you confused with someone else.
Tolerance is there. Acceptance is not.
Respect is earned, individual, by individual.
I gave examples of the activists LGBT corrupting society, and how the 'honorable and loving' LGBTs will not denounce them. It appears they support the corruption of society.

 

[Madeline]

logical4U, I know of not one instance in which anyone has suggested teaching kindergartners about homosexuality (or heterosexuality). I think you are confused. There has been some effort made to assure that older kids (middle school, high school) are treated respectfully if they are GLBT.

As for GLBT people "infiltrating schools"; are you suggesting that such people cannot be good, even great teachers? Because I can assure you, you are wrong there...,but it is something I only happen to know because I have GLBT friends who are teachers and are fantabulous at it. I have never known a single teacher in my entire life who displayed his or her personal life in the classroom...have you?

Follow the public school in Montana: home schoolers are saying if they taught their own children the curriculum the school is planning on teaching, they would be arrested for child porn or worse. Pay attention what the California schools are doing in regards to teaching homosexuality. Why do you think "home-schooling" has become so popular? The schools are not teaching morality, but lewdness and perversity.

logical4U, I honestly do not know what you are on about here. Child porn is the curriculum for home school kids in Montana? That makes no sense.

I'm tired, and wish you a good nite's sleep. Mebbe we can discuss this further later?

 

[Oscar Wao]

logical4U, I challenge you (with warmth, not anger) to reconsider this. It should be enough for you to choose not to sin, as you perceive that, and to teach those values to your family. Beyond the scope of your personal influence, I would like you to try and open your heart a little and just focus on the GLBT person. I am not exaggerating when I say I don't know a single such person who has not suffered in terrible ways over their personal lives.

This is pain you have never known, and mebbe if you could listen to these folks' stories, and try and gain some understanding of what they endure, you might be able to find some peace and adhere a bit more to the "Judge not, lest ye be judged" commandment.

I'm not sure exactly what you fear will happen if you do not "resist" GLBT people's rights....but I have a feeling you could advance your understanding and compassion, and might be willing to do so. I think you are sincere, but possibly just a bit in need of growth...as are we all.

If... me choosing not to sin would stop LGBT from trying to say what they are doing is NOT a sin, and not try to bully those that disagree with them, it would be enough. To do that now, in today's society would require me to turn my back on my beliefs and the Lord's teaching. I would be like Lot in Sodom: ignore it and it will go away. That has been tried, it was not acceptable to the LBGT community. Many have infiltrated the schools and now want "children" (some starting with kindergarden) taught about homosexual sex. That is evil. I don't believe children should be taught about sex until they are emotionally mature to understand (that is an individual basis, usually when they start asking more detailed questions).

Pain is universal. These people that you claim "suffer" so much, do so, as a result of their life's choices. I can tell you that drug addicts and alcoholics suffer and go thru intense pain of their own. Like LGBT, they have a choice, their decisions will either punish the families or make them proud. Only through pain do we grow as humans.

I am not "judging" anyone (i choose to call evil, evil). I do not have that authority. I pray that when LGBTs are kneeling (as every person will) in front of the Lord on judgement day, that He will be merciful and forgiving of their sins (as I hope He will be for mine). The Lord is just, and we will be punished according to our sins (mine are just as bad as anyone else's) Pretending that an addict not controlling themselves is 'good', does not help anyone, just like pretending LBGT actions are 'good'. You seem to think the lifestyle is good. I think that it is deceptive. You seem to think encouraging others to join this lifestyle is acceptable; can you imagine what people would say if someone was teaching children that being an alcoholic is 'good'?

LBGT people have the same Bill of Rights that I have, it is their choices that limit them. They want the law changed to give them additional rights (they could marry either sex).

Activists homosexuals do scare me. They do not admit that what they are doing rips families apart. They do not admit to deceiving others in their quests for partners or to gain 'trust' in employment. They will not admit they support a lewd and perverse community. They will not control their public displays of lewdness. Why don't those that claim LGBT is so loving and honorable denounce these demonstrations of lewdness? Any of these hurt families, communities, and society as a whole; eventually, if not checked, the corruption will infiltrate all aspects of life. It will be equal misery for all, good job!

Have you ever heard of the old saying "No Pain No Gain"

?

 

[CurveLight]

Why is sooo important for GLBT to use the term "marriage"?

Because, historically speaking, wholesome families are built around the institution of marriage. Legalizing gay marriage allows LGBT people to formally build the same familial units that have been the backbone of our civilization.

Why do you want to keep LGBT people on the fringes of society?

---

There are plenty of heterosexual atheists, such as Richard Dawkins. Do you think they should be banned from marriage too?

LGBT lifestyle is based on deceit. Why do you want to legalize deceit? Why do you want to call two people that can not make children natrally from their 'joining' a family? They are not, they are just a poor substitute of the real thing.

There are a lot of hetero married couples that can't have children einstein.

 

[CurveLight]

Why is sooo important for GLBT to use the term "marriage"?

Because, historically speaking, wholesome families are built around the institution of marriage. Legalizing gay marriage allows LGBT people to formally build the same familial units that have been the backbone of our civilization.

Why do you want to keep LGBT people on the fringes of society?

---

There are plenty of heterosexual atheists, such as Richard Dawkins. Do you think they should be banned from marriage too?

LGBT lifestyle is based on deceit. Why do you want to legalize deceit? Why do you want to call two people that can not make children natrally from their 'joining' a family? They are not, they are just a poor substitute of the real thing.

So, logical4U, if I understand you...you fear people will treat marriage as less respectable if same sex marriage is not resisted. Exactly how do you see this playing out? Will people stop addressing one another and "Mr and Mrs"? Will there be confusion at family reunions as to whether newly-weds should be celebrated?

How exactly do you think this lack of respect will show itself? And if some small loss of respect does happen (and I don't concede that it will)...doesn't that help you just a bit to grasp what it must be like for the same sex couple who is denied even a modicum of respect for their marriage?

Seems to me, compassion dictates you not take your satisfaction at someone else's expense, especially when doing so causes such grief.

Currently, if a couple is married, they are welcomed into two families. They have children (for the most part) and build a family of their own. When the families that they have joined die, they have their own family to carry on traditions and take care of them. Why would you celebrate a LGBT marriage? It adds nothing (in resources) to the families, and drains resources as they age.

The lack of respect will come the same way people hired under quotas were treated: they are one of "those" situations, it is "that" kind of marriage.

People would have more respect for LGBT legal contracts, that do not imply there is one of each sex. No deceit, just a sincere statement that binds a person legally to support another.

When an addict does not have their preferred substance, they are in a state of grief. Are you suggesting that the rest of us should be forced to support their habit (lifestyle)? True compassion is honest, it is not appeasement. You don't tell someone they can have a unicorn because they are 'suffering' because they don't have one. If you give them their substance, isn't it at the expense of another? At what point do you say: your choices are causing everyone around you 'grief' and 'pain'?

I have no satisfaction from someone else's 'grief'. I have learned that the Lord will guide you: if you make good choices you are blessed (there will still be pain and suffering, but the blessings will make it easier), if you make bad choices, you are miserable. I will not pretend that life offers anything else. I am not envious, I do not seek to ruin what someone else has built. I am straight forward, and will not manipulate the truth to control others. They must live with their choices, as I live with mine.

This should be a wiki entry on an example of homophobia idiocy.

 

[CurveLight]

In the Old Testament of the Bible there is no mention of a formal exchange of vows or of a preacher or priest being present at this union.

There appeared to be many marriages taking place without witness or ceremony in the 1500's. The Council of Trent was so disturbed by this, that they decreed in 1563 that marriages should be celebrated in the presence of a priest and at least two witnesses. Marriage took on a new role of saving men and women from being sinful, and of procreation. Love wasn't a necessary ingredient for marriage during this era.

Immie is not a bigot. Immie is stuck on a point that I disagree with. He thinks the Churches have a lot to fear from gays and lesbians if marriage equality is the law of the land.

I disagree.

I think some people who are tolerant of gays and lesbians still fear us, unnecessarily IMO.

He is a bigot because he doesn't want gays to publicly hold the title of "Marriage" because they are gay. If that isn't bigotry then what do you call it?

Why is sooo important for GLBT to use the term "marriage"? Why do you want to re-define a word that has had a significant meaning for thousands of years? Why can't you accept 'civil union' or "legal union"?
Many of the homosexuals (or their supporters) that argue for "marriage", reject the Lord. They speak of Him in a disrespectful manner and insult those that believe in the "sanctity of marriage". You say that you think LGBT should have the same opportunity for marriage, but the word does not have the same meaning to you.
You declare yourselves to be 'special' and want to have the laws changed to give LGBT additional rights; you say that you have been persecuted and discrimminated against. Why do you want to attack those that want the definition to stay the same? If your 'lifestyle' is so special, why can't you come up with a legally binding relationship that does not diminish others?
If you succeed in 're-defining' marriage, there will be a hyphen: L-marriage, G-marriage, B-marriage, T-marriage, and then of course: normal marriage. It will not give you one ounce more of respect. It will just show how far from reality the LGBT community really is.

It gets tiring repeating the same facts because homophobes keep being dishonest.

Marriage has never had a single definition so it is impossible to re-define a word that does not hold a singular definition.

You reject God every single time you slam gays out of your own petty childishness and wicked black hole heart that knows nothing of humility or basic understanding of Jesus.

Since gay marriage has been legal in MA for over five years please show us how the world is crumbling and how those marriages have harmed society in any way. We all know you won't be able to produce any substantive response so keep on with your Falwell Hell Highway and claim it is.....lol.....a path of "honesty" you fucking bigot.

 

[CurveLight]

I assume the scenario that you fear is one in which a person who is straight is seduced by someone who is the same sex and their family is disappointed that they aren't going to get grandchildren.

I gotta say, I have never seen this happen. Ever. But I do know GLBT people whose families broke their hearts and even some who are my age, still pretending to their families of origin that they are not GLBT.

There are tragedies all around us. One reason I should think christians would find it easy to extend friendship to GLBT people is that I have never known one who has not suffered in terrible ways over their personal lives. Isn't it incumbent on christians to comfort the suffering?

I think you have part of the idea; you should comfort the sinner (that would be all of us), not the sin (that would be the homosexual act). Legalizing LGBT would be giving comfort to the sin, not the sinner (it would make it easier to sin).

So you advocate American laws be based on theology. That's anti-American and anti-Jesus. What else ya got?

 

[CurveLight]

In the Old Testament of the Bible there is no mention of a formal exchange of vows or of a preacher or priest being present at this union.

There appeared to be many marriages taking place without witness or ceremony in the 1500's. The Council of Trent was so disturbed by this, that they decreed in 1563 that marriages should be celebrated in the presence of a priest and at least two witnesses. Marriage took on a new role of saving men and women from being sinful, and of procreation. Love wasn't a necessary ingredient for marriage during this era.

Immie is not a bigot. Immie is stuck on a point that I disagree with. He thinks the Churches have a lot to fear from gays and lesbians if marriage equality is the law of the land.

I disagree.

I think some people who are tolerant of gays and lesbians still fear us, unnecessarily IMO.

He is a bigot because he doesn't want gays to publicly hold the title of "Marriage" because they are gay. If that isn't bigotry then what do you call it?

Marriage traditionalist?

That's like an opponent of the ERA saying they are simply innocent Voter Traditionalists.

 

[CurveLight]

So you feel the GLBT community is engaged in some conspiracy and that their stated goals are not what they really want. They are not seeking respect or tolerance. They actually want something else.

So tell us, logical4U, what is this something else?

That is exactly the position immie holds. He has ascribed an unfounded evil to the gay community to try and justify his position of denying them the title of marriage.

 

[CurveLight]

logical4U, I challenge you (with warmth, not anger) to reconsider this. It should be enough for you to choose not to sin, as you perceive that, and to teach those values to your family. Beyond the scope of your personal influence, I would like you to try and open your heart a little and just focus on the GLBT person. I am not exaggerating when I say I don't know a single such person who has not suffered in terrible ways over their personal lives.

This is pain you have never known, and mebbe if you could listen to these folks' stories, and try and gain some understanding of what they endure, you might be able to find some peace and adhere a bit more to the "Judge not, lest ye be judged" commandment.

I'm not sure exactly what you fear will happen if you do not "resist" GLBT people's rights....but I have a feeling you could advance your understanding and compassion, and might be willing to do so. I think you are sincere, but possibly just a bit in need of growth...as are we all.

If... me choosing not to sin would stop LGBT from trying to say what they are doing is NOT a sin, and not try to bully those that disagree with them, it would be enough. To do that now, in today's society would require me to turn my back on my beliefs and the Lord's teaching. I would be like Lot in Sodom: ignore it and it will go away. That has been tried, it was not acceptable to the LBGT community. Many have infiltrated the schools and now want "children" (some starting with kindergarden) taught about homosexual sex. That is evil. I don't believe children should be taught about sex until they are emotionally mature to understand (that is an individual basis, usually when they start asking more detailed questions).

Pain is universal. These people that you claim "suffer" so much, do so, as a result of their life's choices. I can tell you that drug addicts and alcoholics suffer and go thru intense pain of their own. Like LGBT, they have a choice, their decisions will either punish the families or make them proud. Only through pain do we grow as humans.

I am not "judging" anyone (i choose to call evil, evil). I do not have that authority. I pray that when LGBTs are kneeling (as every person will) in front of the Lord on judgement day, that He will be merciful and forgiving of their sins (as I hope He will be for mine). The Lord is just, and we will be punished according to our sins (mine are just as bad as anyone else's) Pretending that an addict not controlling themselves is 'good', does not help anyone, just like pretending LBGT actions are 'good'. You seem to think the lifestyle is good. I think that it is deceptive. You seem to think encouraging others to join this lifestyle is acceptable; can you imagine what people would say if someone was teaching children that being an alcoholic is 'good'?

LBGT people have the same Bill of Rights that I have, it is their choices that limit them. They want the law changed to give them additional rights (they could marry either sex).

Activists homosexuals do scare me. They do not admit that what they are doing rips families apart. They do not admit to deceiving others in their quests for partners or to gain 'trust' in employment. They will not admit they support a lewd and perverse community. They will not control their public displays of lewdness. Why don't those that claim LGBT is so loving and honorable denounce these demonstrations of lewdness? Any of these hurt families, communities, and society as a whole; eventually, if not checked, the corruption will infiltrate all aspects of life. It will be equal misery for all, good job!

Sod and Gom had absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality but I am grateful for another example of ignorance and dishonesty from a bigot who preaches about God but lies. It's sad humor.

 

[Oscar Wao]

Exactly, the sexual issue in Sodom was about gang rape and child molestation, not homosexuality.

 

[del]

So you feel the GLBT community is engaged in some conspiracy and that their stated goals are not what they really want. They are not seeking respect or tolerance. They actually want something else.

So tell us, logical4U, what is this something else?

That is exactly the position immie holds. He has ascribed an unfounded evil to the gay community to try and justify his position of denying them the title of marriage.

bullshit

 

[Modbert]

 

[CurveLight]

Exactly, the sexual issue in Sodom was about gang rape and child molestation, not homosexuality.

It had nothing to do with sex.

 

[CurveLight]

So you feel the GLBT community is engaged in some conspiracy and that their stated goals are not what they really want. They are not seeking respect or tolerance. They actually want something else.

So tell us, logical4U, what is this something else?

That is exactly the position immie holds. He has ascribed an unfounded evil to the gay community to try and justify his position of denying them the title of marriage.

bullshit

This isn't the Confessional so no need to tell us what you truly post.

 

[CurveLight]

So you feel the GLBT community is engaged in some conspiracy and that their stated goals are not what they really want. They are not seeking respect or tolerance. They actually want something else.

So tell us, logical4U, what is this something else?

That is exactly the position immie holds. He has ascribed an unfounded evil to the gay community to try and justify his position of denying them the title of marriage.

Here is Immie's position to which Mad's post could easily apply:

"Dear Samson, I disagree.

There has been a long standing fued between the gay community and conservative churches. It will not end the day "gay marriage" becomes the law of the land. Gay Marriage will be a baby step in the fight. It will not be the end of the war that activists are waging against conservatives and conservative churches.

Immie"
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2586933-post536.html



He has ascribed evil to the gay community and framed into a "war" against conservative churches. If we look around, I'm thinking if the term "war" is to be applied then it should be given to the bigots who've been constantly fighting to deny equality to gays by demonizing them, comparing them to bestiality, calling them pedophiles, and constantly accusing them of seeking to destroy the whole earth with Gaydom. Like I said, his position is the same as logical4u.

 

[logical4u]

logical4U, I know of not one instance in which anyone has suggested teaching kindergartners about homosexuality (or heterosexuality). I think you are confused. There has been some effort made to assure that older kids (middle school, high school) are treated respectfully if they are GLBT.

As for GLBT people "infiltrating schools"; are you suggesting that such people cannot be good, even great teachers? Because I can assure you, you are wrong there...,but it is something I only happen to know because I have GLBT friends who are teachers and are fantabulous at it. I have never known a single teacher in my entire life who displayed his or her personal life in the classroom...have you?

Follow the public school in Montana: home schoolers are saying if they taught their own children the curriculum the school is planning on teaching, they would be arrested for child porn or worse. Pay attention what the California schools are doing in regards to teaching homosexuality. Why do you think "home-schooling" has become so popular? The schools are not teaching morality, but lewdness and perversity.

logical4U, I honestly do not know what you are on about here. Child porn is the curriculum for home school kids in Montana? That makes no sense.

I'm tired, and wish you a good nite's sleep. Mebbe we can discuss this further later?

It was the "public" school curriculum.

 

[Madeline]

Respectfully, I need to see a link or I call bullshit on this.