Christian friends of gays and lesbians

[logical4u]

Because, historically speaking, wholesome families are built around the institution of marriage. Legalizing gay marriage allows LGBT people to formally build the same familial units that have been the backbone of our civilization.

Why do you want to keep LGBT people on the fringes of society?

---

There are plenty of heterosexual atheists, such as Richard Dawkins. Do you think they should be banned from marriage too?

LGBT lifestyle is based on deceit. Why do you want to legalize deceit? Why do you want to call two people that can not make children natrally from their 'joining' a family? They are not, they are just a poor substitute of the real thing.

There are a lot of hetero married couples that can't have children einstein.

The are the exception, not the rule. Many of them would like to have children, but can't do to health or physical problems. Much different than two people of the same sex pretending they are the same as two people of the opposite sex. Again, those relationships are 'usually' honest if they know, or if they don't, find out after they are married. The majority of marriages (one man, one woman), have children the green way (no scientist, doctors or extra electricity needed). A homosexual couple can not have children as mates. They must take (legally adopt) someone else's child or one of them must CHOOSE to copulate with the opposite sex to have a child (not being faithful to their 'lifestyle'), or use artificial means (test tubes, implantation, etc). To say they are the same is deceptive.

 

[logical4u]

He is a bigot because he doesn't want gays to publicly hold the title of "Marriage" because they are gay. If that isn't bigotry then what do you call it?

Why is sooo important for GLBT to use the term "marriage"? Why do you want to re-define a word that has had a significant meaning for thousands of years? Why can't you accept 'civil union' or "legal union"?
Many of the homosexuals (or their supporters) that argue for "marriage", reject the Lord. They speak of Him in a disrespectful manner and insult those that believe in the "sanctity of marriage". You say that you think LGBT should have the same opportunity for marriage, but the word does not have the same meaning to you.
You declare yourselves to be 'special' and want to have the laws changed to give LGBT additional rights; you say that you have been persecuted and discrimminated against. Why do you want to attack those that want the definition to stay the same? If your 'lifestyle' is so special, why can't you come up with a legally binding relationship that does not diminish others?
If you succeed in 're-defining' marriage, there will be a hyphen: L-marriage, G-marriage, B-marriage, T-marriage, and then of course: normal marriage. It will not give you one ounce more of respect. It will just show how far from reality the LGBT community really is.

It gets tiring repeating the same facts because homophobes keep being dishonest.

Marriage has never had a single definition so it is impossible to re-define a word that does not hold a singular definition.

You reject God every single time you slam gays out of your own petty childishness and wicked black hole heart that knows nothing of humility or basic understanding of Jesus.

Since gay marriage has been legal in MA for over five years please show us how the world is crumbling and how those marriages have harmed society in any way. We all know you won't be able to produce any substantive response so keep on with your Falwell Hell Highway and claim it is.....lol.....a path of "honesty" you fucking bigot.

Please explain "marriage" as it has been in this country for the first two hundred years (and twenty five). Utah, as a territory allowed polygamy. To become a state, the territory had to pass a law against it. There were 'men' that took more than one Indian wife (women), but it was unacceptable, (as were the polygamous practices of Indians) in 'normal' society. Many of the first thirteen colonies were formed by CHRISTIANS, escaping persecution. They brought their custom of one man, one woman marriage.

You are right, marriage does not hold a singular definition. Only the LGBTs try to imply that it is all-encompassing; every civilization on earth considers marriage between men and women. Please list your examples of any other civilization that counted same-sex 'unions' as marriage (discounting the last twenty years, that the homosexual activists decided to claim they are the same).

If the Lord said that homosexuality was sinful, how does saying homosexual is sinful, "reject G*d"? Don't LGBTs, that declare what the Lord declared sinful, not sinful, reject the Lord's Word? Aren't you being deceitful to make your point? Because I do not praise LGBTs or their behavior and call their 'sins', 'sins' does not make me 'hateful' or bigoted. I do not hate LGBTs. I just refuse to appease them, that would be what those with NO AUTHORITY do every time they declare the Lord's Word void, by insisting LGBTs are not sinning when they participate in homosexual behavior. Can you demonstrate any where in the Bible, it says that lewdness, perversity, or laying with the same sex is acceptable? If you can't, you are teaching, falsely. Because there are places in both the OT and the NT that states that it is sinful.
Yeshua, went to the sinners. He did not tell them to keep having 'a good time'. He told them that they were sinning and that if they stopped sinning and repented, they would be forgiven their sins. There is not one story where He witnessed sin, that He did not call it out, and give the sinner the opportunity to repent and be forgiven. If you are telling people, falsely, their behavior is not sinful, aren't you the one that is leading them to hell?

 

[logical4u]

logical4U, I challenge you (with warmth, not anger) to reconsider this. It should be enough for you to choose not to sin, as you perceive that, and to teach those values to your family. Beyond the scope of your personal influence, I would like you to try and open your heart a little and just focus on the GLBT person. I am not exaggerating when I say I don't know a single such person who has not suffered in terrible ways over their personal lives.

This is pain you have never known, and mebbe if you could listen to these folks' stories, and try and gain some understanding of what they endure, you might be able to find some peace and adhere a bit more to the "Judge not, lest ye be judged" commandment.

I'm not sure exactly what you fear will happen if you do not "resist" GLBT people's rights....but I have a feeling you could advance your understanding and compassion, and might be willing to do so. I think you are sincere, but possibly just a bit in need of growth...as are we all.

If... me choosing not to sin would stop LGBT from trying to say what they are doing is NOT a sin, and not try to bully those that disagree with them, it would be enough. To do that now, in today's society would require me to turn my back on my beliefs and the Lord's teaching. I would be like Lot in Sodom: ignore it and it will go away. That has been tried, it was not acceptable to the LBGT community. Many have infiltrated the schools and now want "children" (some starting with kindergarden) taught about homosexual sex. That is evil. I don't believe children should be taught about sex until they are emotionally mature to understand (that is an individual basis, usually when they start asking more detailed questions).

Pain is universal. These people that you claim "suffer" so much, do so, as a result of their life's choices. I can tell you that drug addicts and alcoholics suffer and go thru intense pain of their own. Like LGBT, they have a choice, their decisions will either punish the families or make them proud. Only through pain do we grow as humans.

I am not "judging" anyone (i choose to call evil, evil). I do not have that authority. I pray that when LGBTs are kneeling (as every person will) in front of the Lord on judgement day, that He will be merciful and forgiving of their sins (as I hope He will be for mine). The Lord is just, and we will be punished according to our sins (mine are just as bad as anyone else's) Pretending that an addict not controlling themselves is 'good', does not help anyone, just like pretending LBGT actions are 'good'. You seem to think the lifestyle is good. I think that it is deceptive. You seem to think encouraging others to join this lifestyle is acceptable; can you imagine what people would say if someone was teaching children that being an alcoholic is 'good'?

LBGT people have the same Bill of Rights that I have, it is their choices that limit them. They want the law changed to give them additional rights (they could marry either sex).

Activists homosexuals do scare me. They do not admit that what they are doing rips families apart. They do not admit to deceiving others in their quests for partners or to gain 'trust' in employment. They will not admit they support a lewd and perverse community. They will not control their public displays of lewdness. Why don't those that claim LGBT is so loving and honorable denounce these demonstrations of lewdness? Any of these hurt families, communities, and society as a whole; eventually, if not checked, the corruption will infiltrate all aspects of life. It will be equal misery for all, good job!

Sod and Gom had absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality but I am grateful for another example of ignorance and dishonesty from a bigot who preaches about God but lies. It's sad humor.

I am familiar with your 'version' of the story. Were the people of Sodom sinning? Were they corrupt and incorrigible in their pursuit of sin? Did they or did they not want to 'rape' (sin) against the visitors to Lot's home? The people of Sodom were insatiable sinners. Lot ignored their sins and tried to live his life peaceable (but lived in fear, behind walls, instead). They were destroyed because there was no good left, everyone, had been corrupted (Lot and his family were slightly less corrupted). The example of Sodom was deliberate because of your 'version'; it show that sin corrupts. It does not matter what the sin is. Homosexual acts are sinful. Therefore the act, corrupts.

That is what sin does, it corrupts. It starts small, and people are de-sensitized to the effects. Sin affects everyone it touches. If it is not fought, it grows, smaller sins become larger sins against more people. The great villians in history, never started by killing hundreds or thousands, that is where sin took them. It hurts, it is painful and it cannot be stopped without the grace of the Lord.

 

[logical4u]

Exactly, the sexual issue in Sodom was about gang rape and child molestation, not homosexuality.

The 'men' of Sodom had no interest in 'gang raping' the daughters. They wanted the males.

 

[bodecea]

Exactly, the sexual issue in Sodom was about gang rape and child molestation, not homosexuality.

The 'men' of Sodom had no interest in 'gang raping' the daughters. They wanted the males.

And Lot...the "good" guy was perfectly willing to hand his daughters over to get the city folk to leave him alone.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Did you see this?

Canyon Ridge Christian Church in Las Vegas, 6000 members, financially supports Uganda's anti-gay law--the one that calls for the death penalty by sending money to its loudest proponent, Pastor Martin Ssempa.
U.S. Church Lends Help To Anti-Gay Ugandan Pastor : NPR

 

[logical4u]

So you feel the GLBT community is engaged in some conspiracy and that their stated goals are not what they really want. They are not seeking respect or tolerance. They actually want something else.

So tell us, logical4U, what is this something else?

That is exactly the position immie holds. He has ascribed an unfounded evil to the gay community to try and justify his position of denying them the title of marriage.

Here is Immie's position to which Mad's post could easily apply:

"Dear Samson, I disagree.

There has been a long standing fued between the gay community and conservative churches. It will not end the day "gay marriage" becomes the law of the land. Gay Marriage will be a baby step in the fight. It will not be the end of the war that activists are waging against conservatives and conservative churches.

Immie"
http://www.usmessageboard.com/2586933-post536.html



He has ascribed evil to the gay community and framed into a "war" against conservative churches. If we look around, I'm thinking if the term "war" is to be applied then it should be given to the bigots who've been constantly fighting to deny equality to gays by demonizing them, comparing them to bestiality, calling them pedophiles, and constantly accusing them of seeking to destroy the whole earth with Gaydom. Like I said, his position is the same as logical4u.

First: bigotry implies you have a better knowledge of how to live. Would you like to give examples of these great communities that believe as you do?
Second: if we are allowed to twist and exagerate how others think, then I will give you an example of your hateful and bigoted style.

Curvelight is at 'war' with the Christian traditions that made this country the most prosperous in the history of the world. He is against personal freedom and is all for subjugating others to a minority population that think they know more than all human history combined. He offers no proof of any goodness that will come from forcing millions to accept sinful ways. He 'demonizes' any that disagree with him, while never denouncing the worship of demonic ways in some homosexual celebrations. He believes that it is more important to give into childish, spoiled demands than to behave responsibly. He constantly twists the Bible for his own purposes and uses it to manipulate and bully Christians into submission. If the world followed his example, it would descend into total corruption.

Disclaimer (that curvelight would not do)
The above is an example of what Curvelight chose to do to others. I have no idea what Curvelight really believes and all the above could be wrong.

Curvelight, the book of Proverbs has a character like you, you might want to read it. The character is the harlot, that leads people away from the Lord.

 

[logical4u]

Respectfully, I need to see a link or I call bullshit on this.

Respectfully, you need to pay attention to what is happening in the nation.

KRTV - Great Falls News - Montana's News Station | Helena sex ...
catholicexchange.com/2010/07/15/132284
Myths and Bigotry in Sex Education Debate | Amplify
Is kindergarten too early for sex education? | syracuse.com
FOXNews.com - Public to Take Aim at Montana School District's ...
4marks Forums: Grade 1 Student to Learn about Gay ...
Sex Education Debate Sparks Outrage -- Christian Blogs ...
Sex education is getting more graphic at younger ages. Is this really what we want for our children? According to AP, Fox News, and The New American, ...

 

[logical4u]

Exactly, the sexual issue in Sodom was about gang rape and child molestation, not homosexuality.

The 'men' of Sodom had no interest in 'gang raping' the daughters. They wanted the males.

And Lot...the "good" guy was perfectly willing to hand his daughters over to get the city folk to leave him alone.

I don't know if you missed it: that was to demonstrate how important those visitors were.
When the crowd rejected the daughters in their lust for the guests, the guests gave them a demonstation of the power at their command: they burned the crowds eyes out before killing most of them. Sometimes, those we think can be easily subdued turn out to be our worst nightmare.

 

[bodecea]

The 'men' of Sodom had no interest in 'gang raping' the daughters. They wanted the males.

And Lot...the "good" guy was perfectly willing to hand his daughters over to get the city folk to leave him alone.

I don't know if you missed it: that was to demonstrate how important those visitors were.
When the crowd rejected the daughters in their lust for the guests, the guests gave them a demonstation of the power at their command: they burned the crowds eyes out before killing most of them. Sometimes, those we think can be easily subdued turn out to be our worst nightmare.

No, it demonstrates how UNimportant his daughters were.

 

[logical4u]

Did you see this?

Canyon Ridge Christian Church in Las Vegas, 6000 members, financially supports Uganda's anti-gay law--the one that calls for the death penalty by sending money to its loudest proponent, Pastor Martin Ssempa.
U.S. Church Lends Help To Anti-Gay Ugandan Pastor : NPR

This is just wrong, they are acting like those activist trying to break the Israeli/Egyptian blockade to Gaza. It will end ugly in both cases.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Did you see this?

Canyon Ridge Christian Church in Las Vegas, 6000 members, financially supports Uganda's anti-gay law--the one that calls for the death penalty by sending money to its loudest proponent, Pastor Martin Ssempa.
U.S. Church Lends Help To Anti-Gay Ugandan Pastor : NPR

This is just wrong, they are acting like those activist trying to break the Israeli/Egyptian blockade to Gaza. It will end ugly in both cases.

Interesting tactic. You can't kill gays in the US so let's support killing them in Uganda.


"The proposed law in Uganda is aimed at making homosexuality illegal. The bill would, among other things:

■Give a minimum life sentence to gay men and women convicted of having sex.
■Sentence anyone to prison who is aware of homosexual activity and does not report it to the government (including parents, siblings, neighbors, pastors, teachers, doctors, etc. who might be aware of “gay” activity).
■Execute people convicted of having homosexual sex with a minor (Actually, I have no problem with this if they would make it ANY kind of sex with a minor).
This law wouldn’t be anything new in the world: there are many other countries that still have draconian laws on the books. Most gays arrested in Saudi Arabia escape the death penalty and receive “only” a whipping. Iran has executed more than 100 alleged homosexuals since 1979. India last year finally took British-era laws off the books, opening the door for possible civil unions or marriage.

But Uganda’s proposed law is different in two ways:

It’s new.

It’s Christian."

http://aworldofprogress.com/ugandas...s-roots-in-american-christian-fundamentalism/

 

[Sky Dancer]

Katharine Jefferts Schori, presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, issued a statement of concern about the Uganda bill, urging the United States government to "grant adequate access to the U.S. asylum system for those fleeing persecution on the basis of homosexuality or gender identity."
Anti-Homosexuality Bill Divides Ugandan and American Christians | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction

 

[DiveCon]

Katharine Jefferts Schori, presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, issued a statement of concern about the Uganda bill, urging the United States government to "grant adequate access to the U.S. asylum system for those fleeing persecution on the basis of homosexuality or gender identity."
Anti-Homosexuality Bill Divides Ugandan and American Christians | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction

good for her
that law is repugnant

 

[Sky Dancer]

I'm glad to hear you say that divecon.

For whatever reason, Canyon Ridge Christian Church 6000 members can't find it within their mission to condemn the anti-gay legislation in Uganda. They consistently say that it's not their role to comment on laws in Uganda, and they continue to deflect and defend Martin Ssempa, and support him financially despite his demonizing rhetoric.

 

[DiveCon]

I'm glad to hear you say that divecon.

For whatever reason, Canyon Ridge Christian Church 6000 members can't find it within their mission to condemn the anti-gay legislation in Uganda. They consistently say that it's not their role to comment on laws in Uganda, and they continue to deflect and defend Martin Ssempa, and support him financially despite his demonizing rhetoric.

as i said in another post, to conhog saying no one should die for a sin
someone else already did
to be putting people to death for this is an even bigger sin

 

[logical4u]

Did you see this?

Canyon Ridge Christian Church in Las Vegas, 6000 members, financially supports Uganda's anti-gay law--the one that calls for the death penalty by sending money to its loudest proponent, Pastor Martin Ssempa.
U.S. Church Lends Help To Anti-Gay Ugandan Pastor : NPR

This is just wrong, they are acting like those activist trying to break the Israeli/Egyptian blockade to Gaza. It will end ugly in both cases.

Interesting tactic. You can't kill gays in the US so let's support killing them in Uganda.


"The proposed law in Uganda is aimed at making homosexuality illegal. The bill would, among other things:

■Give a minimum life sentence to gay men and women convicted of having sex.
■Sentence anyone to prison who is aware of homosexual activity and does not report it to the government (including parents, siblings, neighbors, pastors, teachers, doctors, etc. who might be aware of “gay” activity).
■Execute people convicted of having homosexual sex with a minor (Actually, I have no problem with this if they would make it ANY kind of sex with a minor).
This law wouldn’t be anything new in the world: there are many other countries that still have draconian laws on the books. Most gays arrested in Saudi Arabia escape the death penalty and receive “only” a whipping. Iran has executed more than 100 alleged homosexuals since 1979. India last year finally took British-era laws off the books, opening the door for possible civil unions or marriage.

But Uganda’s proposed law is different in two ways:

It’s new.

It’s Christian."

Uganda anti-gay law rooted in US Christian fundamentalism | Alternative Media, Progressive News Blog

Didn't I say this was 'just wrong'. If I had any way to speak with any of these people, I would tell them this is a supremisist group (give me your money and I will hate 'those' people for you). I have no use for those types of groups.

 

[CurveLight]

The 'men' of Sodom had no interest in 'gang raping' the daughters. They wanted the males.

And Lot...the "good" guy was perfectly willing to hand his daughters over to get the city folk to leave him alone.

I don't know if you missed it: that was to demonstrate how important those visitors were.
When the crowd rejected the daughters in their lust for the guests, the guests gave them a demonstation of the power at their command: they burned the crowds eyes out before killing most of them. Sometimes, those we think can be easily subdued turn out to be our worst nightmare.

Why do you inject sex when sex is no where in the narrative? Have you ever actually studied Genesis 19 or are you so in love with hating gays you'll repeat anything to help with that agenda?

 

[CurveLight]

And Lot...the "good" guy was perfectly willing to hand his daughters over to get the city folk to leave him alone.

I don't know if you missed it: that was to demonstrate how important those visitors were.
When the crowd rejected the daughters in their lust for the guests, the guests gave them a demonstation of the power at their command: they burned the crowds eyes out before killing most of them. Sometimes, those we think can be easily subdued turn out to be our worst nightmare.

No, it demonstrates how UNimportant his daughters were.

The offer of his virgin daughters was a demonstration of being willing to sacrifice his most valuable commodities to protect his guests. Virgin daughters were one of the highest forms of currency for fathers in that culture so the offer of his daughters only helps show how the narrative is about social economics and had nothing to do with sex at all.

 

[CurveLight]

LGBT lifestyle is based on deceit. Why do you want to legalize deceit? Why do you want to call two people that can not make children natrally from their 'joining' a family? They are not, they are just a poor substitute of the real thing.

There are a lot of hetero married couples that can't have children einstein.

The are the exception, not the rule. Many of them would like to have children, but can't do to health or physical problems. Much different than two people of the same sex pretending they are the same as two people of the opposite sex. Again, those relationships are 'usually' honest if they know, or if they don't, find out after they are married. The majority of marriages (one man, one woman), have children the green way (no scientist, doctors or extra electricity needed). A homosexual couple can not have children as mates. They must take (legally adopt) someone else's child or one of them must CHOOSE to copulate with the opposite sex to have a child (not being faithful to their 'lifestyle'), or use artificial means (test tubes, implantation, etc). To say they are the same is deceptive.

Basing the value of a monogamous relationship primarily on the ability to pro-create is simply a homophobic method of trying to justify their bigotry in the absence of substance. A family is not defined by who can make babies but by people who stop acting like babies and take care of each other.