CNN Panel on the controversial Indiana "Religious Freedom" act.

[Statistikhengst]

Jillette on Indiana law You re not being forced to be gay - CNN Video

Video at the link


"CNN's Don Lemon, Alliance Defending Freedom's Kristen Waggoner, ACLU's Rita Sklar and Comedian Penn Jillette discuss Indiana's Religious Freedom Restoration Act."


Interesting. Penn Jillette is apparently both a Libertarian and a self-avowed atheist and he makes the point that selling a wedding cake to gay people is not forcing anyone to engage in gay sex or the like. Rita Sklar hardly got a word in edgewise. Don Lemon made the remark that the bible quotes being used to support the Indiana law are the same ones that used to be used against blacks in their fight for equality. Penn Jillette also noted that the under 30 crowd does not care a bit about this, that they have long accepted gays and gay rights and that this is just one more last breath from a side that has long lost this battle and is now trying to litigate it anew, from state to state.

It's an interesting discussion, mostly civil.

Watch and discuss your opinions.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I don't have the time to watch a video, but people already have religious freedom in our country. They are free to choose a religious ideology, free to worship as they choose, free to attend any church or Mosque they wish, and free to encourage others to join them.

They are not free to use the fact they have made such a choice as the justification for their actions, nor does such a choice mean that it is THEY who are being discriminated against when others resist their attempts to indulge in such actions.

If a business sells a wedding cake with the words "best of luck" to one person, it should sell a wedding cake with the same words to another. If it sells a hammer or a washing machine or a loaf of bread to one person, it should sell it to another. Just because a person chooses a particular ideology, that does not exempt them from these expectations. This new law is attempting to allow them to do just that.

Why we treat the types of ideologies we call "religion" any differently than those we call "political" mystifies me. Should we pass laws called "conservative freedom restoration act", "liberal freedom restoration act" or "anarcho-syndicalist restoration act" that allows people the ability to discriminate for no other reason than they have chosen a particular ideology most willingly? If not, then why do we need a "religious freedom act" in a country that already has religious freedom?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I'm still wondering why anyone would want to force another to do business with them if they don't want to? Is there but one baker in that town? Seems to me these folks singled that baker out in an effort to create a shitstorm.

I have no sympathy for them, go get your cake elsewhere... it's not like you're being denied electricity or food because of your sexual orientation. It's a fucking cake.

 

[Kondor3]

When you take a Stand, then take a goddamned Stand, fer Crissakes !

Rightly or wrongly, supportive lawmakers and executives in Indiana decided to take a Stand.

And then they chickened-out and backtracked, when the Gay Mafia and its legions of bubble-brained supporters started to piss and moan and threaten economic consequences.

Gutless Nutless Wonders.

What a joke.

And what a pity, that the opening salvo in the next round of resistance against the Gay Mafia was even more limp-wristed than that which they sought to combat.

Pathetic dikkless twits.

 

[SwimExpert]

State Representative Emily Virgin of Oklahoma is a member of this very website, or at the very least is a stalker, and recently stole the idea that I have posted here multiple times. But I'll forgive her the fact as I am glad to see the idea being put forth into legislative action. Her proposed amendment to OK's RFRA bill is to permit discrimination against gay people so long as notice is posted at the door. Which really is exactly how it should be.

Let's face it, in today's world of well practiced and carefully crafted plausible deniability, trying to legislate feelings into other people is a pretty ridiculous undertaking that is doomed to failure before you even begin. You can't stop people from discriminating against gay people. It's going to happen. Constantly. But it's going to be done in such a way that nobody can do anything about it. I don't know why none of these cake bakers haven't figured it out yet. Hell, all they have to do is save a few cakes that didn't get bought before they weren't any good anymore and throwing them on the floor on pickup day, and saying "I'm so sorry. There was a terrible accident and now your cake is ruined. No, I'm afraid I won't be able to prepare another one in time because, as you know, this has taken weeks of preparation and I am now fully booked. No, of course I won't be charging you, here's a full refund of your deposit. You know, in a pinch I know that some couples have been very happy using an alternative cupcake variation of a wedding cake, with a small pan cake for just the wedding party to enjoy the cake cutting portion of the reception. And I know that Tony's on 71st street is usually able to produce a large volume of cupcakes on short notice. I'm sure he'll be more than happy to help you folks out. Good luck and have a nice day."

 

[Statistikhengst]

I'm still wondering why anyone would want to force another to do business with them if they don't want to? Is there but one baker in that town? Seems to me these folks singled that baker out in an effort to create a shitstorm.

I have no sympathy for them, go get your cake elsewhere... it's not like you're being denied electricity or food because of your sexual orientation. It's a fucking cake.

I thanked you for your posting not because I necessarily agree with you. I thanked you because you have proven to be very consistent in your views and instead of attacking members, you stick with the ideas and the themes of an op, which earns my respect.

Kudos to you, Soggy.

 

[Statistikhengst]

State Representative Emily Virgin of Oklahoma is a member of this very website, or at the very least is a stalker, and recently stole the idea that I have posted here multiple times. But I'll forgive her the fact as I am glad to see the idea being put forth into legislative action. Her proposed amendment to OK's RFRA bill is to permit discrimination against gay people so long as notice is posted at the door. Which really is exactly how it should be.

Let's face it, in today's world of well practiced and carefully crafted plausible deniability, trying to legislate feelings into other people is a pretty ridiculous undertaking that is doomed to failure before you even begin. You can't stop people from discriminating against gay people. It's going to happen. Constantly. But it's going to be done in such a way that nobody can do anything about it. I don't know why none of these cake bakers haven't figured it out yet. Hell, all they have to do is save a few cakes that didn't get bought before they weren't any good anymore and throwing them on the floor on pickup day, and saying "I'm so sorry. There was a terrible accident and now your cake is ruined. No, I'm afraid I won't be able to prepare another one in time because, as you know, this has taken weeks of preparation and I am now fully booked. No, of course I won't be charging you, here's a full refund of your deposit. You know, in a pinch I know that some couples have been very happy using an alternative cupcake variation of a wedding cake, with a small pan cake for just the wedding party to enjoy the cake cutting portion of the reception. And I know that Tony's on 71st street is usually able to produce a large volume of cupcakes on short notice. I'm sure he'll be more than happy to help you folks out. Good luck and have a nice day."

Interesting thoughts.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I'm still wondering why anyone would want to force another to do business with them if they don't want to? Is there but one baker in that town? Seems to me these folks singled that baker out in an effort to create a shitstorm.

I have no sympathy for them, go get your cake elsewhere... it's not like you're being denied electricity or food because of your sexual orientation. It's a fucking cake.

I think it was the baker's action that caused the shitstorm. He wasn't sued for nothing.

 

[SwimExpert]

Interesting thoughts.

Eh, I actually end up doing pretty much this exact same thing several times a month. I end up picking and choosing winners and losers, and make decisions on whom to discriminate against and why. Granted, I'm not selecting people based on sexual orientation, and most of the time the decision is made before I ever have the chance to meet the person. But there has been a few times when things just happened to turn out such a way that I was going to have to make a quick decision with people in front of me if and whom was going to get shafted. And when those times have come, you better believe that I have relied heavily on quick, subjective impressions about things like what "kind" of person someone is, whether I think they "deserve" better treatment or worse treatment, and plenty of other snap personal judgements.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

When you take a Stand, then take a goddamned Stand, fer Crissakes !

Rightly or wrongly, supportive lawmakers and executives in Indiana decided to take a Stand.

And then they chickened-out and backtracked, when the Gay Mafia and its legions of bubble-brained supporters started to piss and moan and threaten economic consequences.

Gutless Nutless Wonders.

What a joke.

And what a pity, that the opening salvo in the next round of resistance against the Gay Mafia was even more limp-wristed than that which they sought to combat.

Pathetic dikkless twits.

That Indiana lawmakers did the right thing angers you and others on the hateful right confirms the fact that Indiana lawmakers did the right thing.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

SWIMEXPERT SAID:

“But I'll forgive her the fact as I am glad to see the idea being put forth into legislative action. Her proposed amendment to OK's RFRA bill is to permit discrimination against gay people so long as notice is posted at the door. Which really is exactly how it should be.”

It's an ignorant and ridiculous idea, and not at all how it should be.

It makes no difference whether gay patrons are denied service verbally or in writing – it's still disruptive to the local market and all other interrelated markets. It's also an unwarranted, hateful manifestation of public policy, that any community would condone discrimination of members of that community based simply on who they are.

Public accommodations laws are wise and appropriate economic regulatory policy with the added benefit of allowing states and local jurisdictions to express their commitment to inclusion and respect for all residents of the state and members of the local community.

As for the rest of your post, that a professional business owner and responsible member of the business community and local community would need to invent such lies, contrivances, and idiotic fabrications only to avoid accommodating a customer he 'disapproves' of us just as ignorant and ridiculous.