communism v capitalism

[Mikeoxenormous]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

Lets see, in Communism, if everyone is paid equally, why should a doctor do 12 years of college just to be paid the same as a bread maker? In Communism, everyone can only have 1 car, 1 tv, 1 channel, 1 child, 1 house, with 1 bedroom, unless you are the Communist Elites, who think they are better than you, so eat very expensive ice cream while you eat potato soup. Yep, I know all about Communism, i studied Russian back in the 1970s, and how the Russians would climb over barbed wire and face machine guns just so they could be free in a capitalist country....

 

[22orchards]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

Lets see, in Communism, if everyone is paid equally, why should a doctor do 12 years of college just to be paid the same as a bread maker? In Communism, everyone can only have 1 car, 1 tv, 1 channel, 1 child, 1 house, with 1 bedroom, unless you are the Communist Elites, who think they are better than you, so eat very expensive ice cream while you eat potato soup. Yep, I know all about Communism, i studied Russian back in the 1970s, and how the Russians would climb over barbed wire and face machine guns just so they could be free in a capitalist country....

your point about equal distribution of belongings forgets to acknowledge that personal property is a thing under communism. also, under pure communism (which is harder to implement), there wouldn't be any capital at all, so it would be people who just work and do the jobs they love. and when you say "communist elites" that's also more of a flaw with past attempts to implement communism that ended in corruption. i definitely acknowledge that that was a very real issue, but again, in pure communism, everyone would be equal. communism in the soviet union was really cloudy, as it successfully used certain aspects of communism, while failing in other respects. it was mainly under stalin that the ussr fell to shit (mainly because stalin was a horrible person). a big part of the reason people would do all that to escape was simply because they felt that the commune established by the ussr had become tainted and no longer was what they stood for.

i really appreciate the fact that you came at this with facts and not just names. it definitely makes debating a lot more engaging and less of a game of who can call each other a meaner word.

 

[Soupnazi630]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

First one has to define ones terms. Communism is NOT a stateless, moneyless, egalitarian, society where the workers own the means of production. Communism is a political ideology which attempts to move towards that utopian society. Which means so long as one is following the prescribed ideology one is a communist and lives within a communist society.

This is why modern communists foolishly claim that the USSR and China and Cuba and any other communist nation are not true communist nations. They are communist nations stuck under the dictatorship of the proletariate.

Marx himself stated that the dictatorship of the proletariate would be necessary to work towards the goal. He specified that no one can know how long the dictatorship will last but that it would last as long as it needs to. Which of course can easily mean thousands of years. But as long as that dictatorship claims that they will one day achieve the class less egalitarian society and then the state will whither away and die then that brutal despotic relationship is in fact a communist government. Just skip over the fact but do not forget that NO government just whithers away and dies because they are no longer needed and no government ever will do that.

Make no mistake Marx also stated that said dictatorship would be despotic and that said despotism would be necessary along with violent terror to exterminate the reactionaries. Which means anyone who disagrees. Modern communists ignore this because they lie endlessly claiming that the dictatorship of the proletariate does not mean a literal dictatorship. When in fact that is precisely what Marx meant. Tyrannical, bloodthirsty, brutal, genocidal, dictatorship. Which is precisely what every communist government is.

In contrast capitalism does not rely on such brutality but instead relies on respect and peace. When you want something and pay for it it is a peaceful sign of respect that you and the person selling it are exchanging value for value and no one is taking from another by force. Communism demands such force be applied because people do not ever and never will be inclined to just give all that they are capable of giving to others for nothing. This is why " From each according to his ability and to each according to his need " is a description of the ideal communist world AND a description of slavery. Communism and slavery are one and the same. Slaves have their ability taken from them to benefit another while they are given just what they need. Sure slavery has existed in capitalist nations but was proven to be inneffecient and done away with. Communism simply enslaves EVERYONE and cannot exist without universal slavery.

So if you wish to argue communism is better start by explaining why hanging the words " of the proletariate" after the word dictator makes the dictatorship a good thing. Do not dodge and claim he meant something else. He meant dictatorship and it is absolutely mandatory to have that dictatorship after the revolution. Marx NEVER wrote anything to explain what he meant other than DESPOTISM under the dictatorship.

Then explain how communism is so much better without money which people use to engage in trade. Without it there is only theft and violence.

 

[daveman]

This has has to be a joke, Communism collapsed like dark matter on itself because all things being equal: It was overrun with demagogues. Like the American Democratic party supporting race riots and the BLM.

no country has existed under communism. stop using ad hominems. they make your argument look weaker than it is because you have to employ the use of pathos in a decidedly logos-fueled debate.

did you forget communism is a form of capitalism???,,, just a smaller group of people keep the profits,,,

communism exists under the idea that there is no capital, no money, no class, no private property, and that the people own the means of production.

Fool, communism is a hyper class centric system of government. A dictatorship of the proletariat composed of a few hedonists controls EVERYTHING while the actual proletariat starve and fucking die if they don't worship the party line. The people own nothing. Open a book and read it.

you described capitalism. a dictatorship of the people who own production (it's called the bourgoise by the way), that stand upon the efforts of the working class (the proletariat), who are unable to live how they like because if they don't, they won't have enough money to survive.

Lemme guess...you really don't want to have to get a job.

Are you saying that danielpalos has a sock now?!

May as well. Not a single internet Commie has ever had an original thought.

 

[MaryL]

Communism is a brilliant idea, accept it never actually works in reality. It's the political version of a perpetual motion machine. It clicks all the boxes and yet it never works in reality.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

Lets see, in Communism, if everyone is paid equally, why should a doctor do 12 years of college just to be paid the same as a bread maker? In Communism, everyone can only have 1 car, 1 tv, 1 channel, 1 child, 1 house, with 1 bedroom, unless you are the Communist Elites, who think they are better than you, so eat very expensive ice cream while you eat potato soup. Yep, I know all about Communism, i studied Russian back in the 1970s, and how the Russians would climb over barbed wire and face machine guns just so they could be free in a capitalist country....

your point about equal distribution of belongings forgets to acknowledge that personal property is a thing under communism. also, under pure communism (which is harder to implement), there wouldn't be any capital at all, so it would be people who just work and do the jobs they love. and when you say "communist elites" that's also more of a flaw with past attempts to implement communism that ended in corruption. i definitely acknowledge that that was a very real issue, but again, in pure communism, everyone would be equal. communism in the soviet union was really cloudy, as it successfully used certain aspects of communism, while failing in other respects. it was mainly under stalin that the ussr fell to shit (mainly because stalin was a horrible person). a big part of the reason people would do all that to escape was simply because they felt that the commune established by the ussr had become tainted and no longer was what they stood for.

i really appreciate the fact that you came at this with facts and not just names. it definitely makes debating a lot more engaging and less of a game of who can call each other a meaner word.

Lenin was a horrible person, where do you think Stalin, Mao and Castro learned to be such dickstator?

 

[22orchards]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

Lets see, in Communism, if everyone is paid equally, why should a doctor do 12 years of college just to be paid the same as a bread maker? In Communism, everyone can only have 1 car, 1 tv, 1 channel, 1 child, 1 house, with 1 bedroom, unless you are the Communist Elites, who think they are better than you, so eat very expensive ice cream while you eat potato soup. Yep, I know all about Communism, i studied Russian back in the 1970s, and how the Russians would climb over barbed wire and face machine guns just so they could be free in a capitalist country....

your point about equal distribution of belongings forgets to acknowledge that personal property is a thing under communism. also, under pure communism (which is harder to implement), there wouldn't be any capital at all, so it would be people who just work and do the jobs they love. and when you say "communist elites" that's also more of a flaw with past attempts to implement communism that ended in corruption. i definitely acknowledge that that was a very real issue, but again, in pure communism, everyone would be equal. communism in the soviet union was really cloudy, as it successfully used certain aspects of communism, while failing in other respects. it was mainly under stalin that the ussr fell to shit (mainly because stalin was a horrible person). a big part of the reason people would do all that to escape was simply because they felt that the commune established by the ussr had become tainted and no longer was what they stood for.

i really appreciate the fact that you came at this with facts and not just names. it definitely makes debating a lot more engaging and less of a game of who can call each other a meaner word.

Lenin was a horrible person, where do you think Stalin, Mao and Castro learned to be such dickstator?

nevermind i take back every good thing i said about you lmao

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Communism is a brilliant idea, accept it never actually works in reality. It's the political version of a perpetual motion machine. It clicks all the boxes and yet it never works in reality.

I really hate this ugly bitch, but at least she spoke honestly..

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

Lets see, in Communism, if everyone is paid equally, why should a doctor do 12 years of college just to be paid the same as a bread maker? In Communism, everyone can only have 1 car, 1 tv, 1 channel, 1 child, 1 house, with 1 bedroom, unless you are the Communist Elites, who think they are better than you, so eat very expensive ice cream while you eat potato soup. Yep, I know all about Communism, i studied Russian back in the 1970s, and how the Russians would climb over barbed wire and face machine guns just so they could be free in a capitalist country....

your point about equal distribution of belongings forgets to acknowledge that personal property is a thing under communism. also, under pure communism (which is harder to implement), there wouldn't be any capital at all, so it would be people who just work and do the jobs they love. and when you say "communist elites" that's also more of a flaw with past attempts to implement communism that ended in corruption. i definitely acknowledge that that was a very real issue, but again, in pure communism, everyone would be equal. communism in the soviet union was really cloudy, as it successfully used certain aspects of communism, while failing in other respects. it was mainly under stalin that the ussr fell to shit (mainly because stalin was a horrible person). a big part of the reason people would do all that to escape was simply because they felt that the commune established by the ussr had become tainted and no longer was what they stood for.

i really appreciate the fact that you came at this with facts and not just names. it definitely makes debating a lot more engaging and less of a game of who can call each other a meaner word.

Lenin was a horrible person, where do you think Stalin, Mao and Castro learned to be such dickstator?

nevermind i take back every good thing i said about you lmao

Which is typical of a Communist punk...because the Commie fag, doesnt like it when you talk bad about their gods(little g).

 

[22orchards]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

First one has to define ones terms. Communism is NOT a stateless, moneyless, egalitarian, society where the workers own the means of production. Communism is a political ideology which attempts to move towards that utopian society. Which means so long as one is following the prescribed ideology one is a communist and lives within a communist society.

This is why modern communists foolishly claim that the USSR and China and Cuba and any other communist nation are not true communist nations. They are communist nations stuck under the dictatprship of the proletariate.

Marx himself stated that the dictatorship of the proletariate would be necessary to work towards the goal. He specified that no one can know how long the dictatorship will last but that it would last as long as it needs to. Which of course cdan easily mean thousands of years. But as long as that dictatorship claims that they will one day achieve the class less egalitarian society and then the state will whither away and die then that brutal despotic relationship is in fact a communist government. Just skip over the fact but do not forget that NO government just whithers away and dies because they are no longer needed and no government ever will do that.

Make no mistake Marx also stated that said dictatorship would be despotic and that said despotism would be necessary along with violent terror to exterminate the reactionaries. Which means anyone who disagrees. Modern communists ignore this because they lie endlessly claiming that the dictatorship of the proletariate does not mean a literal dictatorship. When in fact that is precisely what Marx meant. Tyrannical, bloodthirsty, brutal, genocidal, dictatorship. Which is precisely what every communist government is.

In contrast capitalism does not rely on such burtality but instead relies on respect and peace. When you want something and pay for it it is a peaceful sign of respect that you and the person selling it are exchanging value for value and no one is taking from another by force. Communism demands such force be applied because people do not ever and never will be inclined to just give all that they are capable of giving to others for nothing. This is why " From each according to his ability and to each according to his need " is a description of the ideal communist world AND a description of slavery. Communism and slavery are one and the same. Slaves have their ability taken from them to benefit another while they are given just what they need. Sure slavery has existed in capitalist nations but was proven to be inneffecient and done away with. Communism simply enslaves EVERYONE and cannot exist without universal slavery.

So if you wish to argue communism is better start by explaining why hanging the words " of the proletariate" after the word dictator makes the dictatorship a good thing. Do not dodge and claim he meant something else. He meant dictatorship and it is absolutely mandatory to have that dictatorship after the revolution. Marx NEVER wrote anything to explain what he meant other than DESPOTISM under the dictatorship.

Then explain how communism is so much better without money which people use to engage in trade. Without it there is only theft and violence.

firstly: i loved reading your response, super well written, super well thought out, overall i liked it a lot.
secondly: i guess you and i had different interpretations of what i meant by communism. i meant the end goal, y'know, that utopia after all the horrible stuff marx described. when it comes to practicality, capitalism is definitely a lot easier than communism, it doesn't require any transitional period because we already exist in capitalism, right. my personal view (and this varies from person to person) is that ideally, to transition to communism, we would skip over the bloodshed by taking things slower, with a more libertarian socialist approach. with a more controlled transition, we could prevent unneeded deaths, as well as create a more thought out society. it's interesting that you use the term universal slavery, it makes me think of capitalism and how ultimately, we're all slaves to whoever has the most money (i.e. amazon, jeff bezos, elon musk, etc).

 

[22orchards]

I really hate this ugly bitch, but at least she spoke honestly..

don't call someone an ugly bitch unless you'd want it done to you, you racist piece of white trash

 

[22orchards]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

Lets see, in Communism, if everyone is paid equally, why should a doctor do 12 years of college just to be paid the same as a bread maker? In Communism, everyone can only have 1 car, 1 tv, 1 channel, 1 child, 1 house, with 1 bedroom, unless you are the Communist Elites, who think they are better than you, so eat very expensive ice cream while you eat potato soup. Yep, I know all about Communism, i studied Russian back in the 1970s, and how the Russians would climb over barbed wire and face machine guns just so they could be free in a capitalist country....

your point about equal distribution of belongings forgets to acknowledge that personal property is a thing under communism. also, under pure communism (which is harder to implement), there wouldn't be any capital at all, so it would be people who just work and do the jobs they love. and when you say "communist elites" that's also more of a flaw with past attempts to implement communism that ended in corruption. i definitely acknowledge that that was a very real issue, but again, in pure communism, everyone would be equal. communism in the soviet union was really cloudy, as it successfully used certain aspects of communism, while failing in other respects. it was mainly under stalin that the ussr fell to shit (mainly because stalin was a horrible person). a big part of the reason people would do all that to escape was simply because they felt that the commune established by the ussr had become tainted and no longer was what they stood for.

i really appreciate the fact that you came at this with facts and not just names. it definitely makes debating a lot more engaging and less of a game of who can call each other a meaner word.

Lenin was a horrible person, where do you think Stalin, Mao and Castro learned to be such dickstator?

nevermind i take back every good thing i said about you lmao

Which is typical of a Communist punk...because the Commie fag, doesnt like it when you talk bad about their gods(little g).

ok grandpa, go back to jerking off into your american flag thinking about world war ii

 

[22orchards]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

if you dont accept communism they kill you,,,

thats a historic fact,,,

it's also a historic fact that there's never been a communist country. the very term is an oxymoron.

 

[22orchards]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

Anyone who makes that claim isn't interested in facts.

Run along now.

so you can't debate me?

No, I can't, but not for the reason you imagine.

Make your case.

you go first since you're so adamant about embarrassing yourself.

 

[22orchards]

Communism is well meaning, I get it. Really, communism is the political equivalent of the perpetual motion machine, it sounds nice but never works in actuality.

it could work in reality. it just requires the people to work hard to maintain a society. capitalism the equivalent of taking all easy classes in high school, sure they're all easy and really hard to mess up, but it won't last you very long in the real world. communism is like ap courses. they're far harder, but if you can maintain it, you'll be far happier in the long run.

Ok, yes, it could work. Theoretically. But its doesn't work in practice. Its been proven that people don't act like this. Look at the Chinese. The Chinese don't care if the communist or the Tang dynasty rules. Nope, in the long term. These assholes are buying out our media, and they tell us George Floyd died not from a fentanyl overdose (Chinese induced breaking bad scenario) but a white cop had a knee on his neck. No mention of the fentanyl induced hysteria, or the fact he died from an overdose...Just tiny issue of the white cops are the focus. No matter the huge black on black murder rate...

and there's the unbridled racism that bars you from ever stepping above the bottom rung on the ol' respect ladder. go back to crying about masks, mary, you're getting old to laugh at

 

[22orchards]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

TROLL^^^

nah capitalism sucks ass

 

[progressive hunter]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

TROLL^^^

nah capitalism sucks ass

only for lazy people,,,

now communism will kill your ass dead,,,

I'd rather have my ass sucked than killed,,,

 

[22orchards]

US Constitution does not make any mention about "communism is better than capitalism." So, debate your soiled, stained paintez that your mother is going to wash tomorrow morning.

Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the idea is that communism would work better than the constitution and i couldn't really find another place to post this. also quit using ad hominems, they make your point look invalid.

the constitution has lasted 230yr,,, no communist country has made it 75 yrs,,,

no communist country has ever existed.

OH I forgot youre not that educated,,,

wait a minute,,, how can you say its better of its never existed before???

because the idea of communism is still well explored. by that mentality, innovation is impossible and should be ridiculed.

Under Communism, innovation is impossible.

no it isn't. you're neglecting the idea that maybe people want to learn about stuff for more than just money.

 

[22orchards]

communism is better than capitalism.
debate me using facts and not ad hominems.

TROLL^^^

nah capitalism sucks ass

only for lazy people,,,

now communism will kill your ass dead,,,

I'd rather have my ass sucked than killed,,,

where's your evidence that communism would kill my ass dead

 

[progressive hunter]

US Constitution does not make any mention about "communism is better than capitalism." So, debate your soiled, stained paintez that your mother is going to wash tomorrow morning.

Constitution of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

the idea is that communism would work better than the constitution and i couldn't really find another place to post this. also quit using ad hominems, they make your point look invalid.

the constitution has lasted 230yr,,, no communist country has made it 75 yrs,,,

no communist country has ever existed.

OH I forgot youre not that educated,,,

wait a minute,,, how can you say its better of its never existed before???

because the idea of communism is still well explored. by that mentality, innovation is impossible and should be ridiculed.

Under Communism, innovation is impossible.

no it isn't. you're neglecting the idea that maybe people want to learn about stuff for more than just money.

those things dont benefit a society,,,