Communist California to require Solar Panels on all new homes

[bripat9643]

True. The government is also avoiding paying the market rate of interest they would otherwise have to pay for the nearly free use of the money.

The government is also avoiding paying the market rate of interest they would otherwise have to pay for the nearly free use of the money

They pay the same blended rate to the Trust Funds that they pay on all their debt.

You can't pay interest to yourself. They pay nothing.

You can't pay interest to yourself.

Why not?

They pay nothing.

In 2016, OASI was paid $87 billion.

Write yourself an interest bearing note. Set the interest rate at 10000000000000000000000%. Wait 10 years. Now, how much money do you have?

I need $20. My kid has $20.
I can borrow from my bank and pay them 5% or I can borrow from my kid and pay them 5%.
Their $20 was just sitting there, earning no interest.
Next year, how much does my kid have?

You can't borrow from yourself. That's what the bonds in the so-called "Trust Fund" are: the government borrowing from itself. If you take $20 out of one pocket, and put it in another pocket, next year, how much mone do you have? Even if you pay yourself 10000000000000000000000% interest, you've still got only $20.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They both get paid money because of the effort and sweat of others.

No. One gets paid by doing a job. The others get paid by risking their own money to create a profit. Their paycheck is that profit, and they decide on what to do with it.

So your answer to employees making a living wage is they should open their own business?

That's one way. The other is to join our military and earn college benefits. Another is to work for a few years and then attend college. Another is to take up a trade and pay for that training yourself. Another is to gain employment where a company will pay for an advanced education. There are all kinds of ways.

I do pay my employees at least twice as much as my competitors AND I don't rob them by making them pay for part of their benefits package.

How can I do this?

1) I own my suppliers and pay substantially less than they do for the same product.
2) I don't have investors.
3) Business make much more money than they tell you.

Look.......not to be insulting, but judging from your posts, you never even so much as ran a hotdog stand. I know wealthy people. I have wealthy people and business owners in my family. You don't talk like any one of them. You don't even know the basics of business. If you did, you would understand foreign competition. You would understand domestic competition. You would understand that many business owners are barely squeaking by and only living on the pittance that's left after they meet payroll. You would understand that most businesses fail within five years.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The government is also avoiding paying the market rate of interest they would otherwise have to pay for the nearly free use of the money

They pay the same blended rate to the Trust Funds that they pay on all their debt.

You can't pay interest to yourself. They pay nothing.

You can't pay interest to yourself.

Why not?

They pay nothing.

In 2016, OASI was paid $87 billion.

Write yourself an interest bearing note. Set the interest rate at 10000000000000000000000%. Wait 10 years. Now, how much money do you have?

I need $20. My kid has $20.
I can borrow from my bank and pay them 5% or I can borrow from my kid and pay them 5%.
Their $20 was just sitting there, earning no interest.
Next year, how much does my kid have?

You can't borrow from yourself. That's what the bonds in the so-called "Trust Fund" are: the government borrowing from itself. If you take $20 out of one pocket, and put it in another pocket, next year, how much mone do you have? Even if you pay yourself 10000000000000000000000% interest, you've still got only $20.

You can't borrow from yourself.

I just borrowed from my family.
Just like the Treasury borrowed from SS.

Now, Social Security could have taken, let's say, $1 trillion in surplus payroll taxes and piled up stacks of $100s in a vault. The US Treasury would have had to borrow $1 trillion more from private investors, mutual funds, hedge funds, Japan and China. The US Treasury has the same interest expense, but instead of that interest adding to the SS Trust Fund, it went out the door.

Instead of the Trust Fund earning interest, it's sitting on cash which earns zero.

Tell me how the cash scenario is better for us than the actual situation.

the government borrowing from itself. If you take $20 out of one pocket, and put it in another pocket,

Yup. As opposed to one pocket holding onto the $20, earning no interest, and the other pocket borrowing $20 from China.

next year, how much mone do you have?

Well, assuming interest was 2.5%, the lending pocket has 50 cents more than it had before.
The borrowing pocket owes $20.50. Whether the 50 cents went to the Trust Fund or China......

 

[Flopper]

Yes, there is no doubt you and everyone else would be far better off if the social security trust had been invested in the market. Being that hindsight is perfect, that's an easy conclusion. However, there’s no guarantee the market will continue to go higher, and the solvency of the system could be compromised if the market had a prolonged crash.

There is another issue to be considered. Investing Social Security assets in stocks would place way too much market authority in the hands of those in Washington. The $2.9 trillion currently in the Social Security trust fund represents about 14% of the value of all the stocks on the New York Stock Exchange. Even just a portion of it would allow for the government to purchase a commanding share of almost every major company in the U.S. The way the government managed its voting rights could effectively allow it to “pick winners” among corporate entities.

1. There is no "trust fund". Never has been, never will be.

2. NO ONE has ever suggested that all the money I paid into SS over all these decades be invested in the stock market. Stop lying. The proposal was to ALLOW people the choice of investing 2% of what they contributed to Social Security to go into one of a number of very safe mutual type funds for the holder's future retirement. Is that so difficult for you or again, was it too good that government would NOT have control of at least a part of your money?


3. At one point in time, communities were able to opt out of Social Security. Galveston Texas and several surrounding counties did just that. Today, those workers are far, far better off than any Social Security recipient.

If there is no trust fund where do you think your social security contributions go?

They go straight into the general fund and are spent immediately.

NO
Contributions from employees, employers, and interest flows into the S.S. Trust fund daily. Benefit checks are cut from these funds and the balance is used to buy treasuries. Currently the inflow of funds exceeds benefits by about 4.5% so there is usually a sufficient inflow of funds to cover benefits paid. If at any time there is not sufficient funds to cover benefits, then treasuries are automatically sold to cover any shortfall. S.S. attempts to keep the fund at as near a zero cash balance as possible to maximize interest payments by investing cash balances daily. This cycle is repeated daily.

The only money that flows into the general fund from the S.S. Trust Fund are treasure bill purchases. The only funds that flow into S.S Trust funds from the General Fund are treasury bill redemption.

 

[francoHFW]

Will they also require the batteries to store the electricity? Without those, you're only off grid during daylight hours. You know, when everyone is at work or school...

There are no batteries. The solar panels feed right into the grid and you get your electricity the same way you always did. The difference is how the electricity is metered.

What do you mean? There are no batteries, or there are no batteries required? Because absolutely there are batteries for storing electricity generated by solar cells and absolutely without them, once the sun goes down you're back on the grid.

But batteries are a bad deal...

 

[francoHFW]

They both get paid money because of the effort and sweat of others.

No. One gets paid by doing a job. The others get paid by risking their own money to create a profit. Their paycheck is that profit, and they decide on what to do with it.

So your answer to employees making a living wage is they should open their own business?

That's one way. The other is to join our military and earn college benefits. Another is to work for a few years and then attend college. Another is to take up a trade and pay for that training yourself. Another is to gain employment where a company will pay for an advanced education. There are all kinds of ways.

I do pay my employees at least twice as much as my competitors AND I don't rob them by making them pay for part of their benefits package.

How can I do this?

1) I own my suppliers and pay substantially less than they do for the same product.
2) I don't have investors.
3) Business make much more money than they tell you.

Look.......not to be insulting, but judging from your posts, you never even so much as ran a hotdog stand. I know wealthy people. I have wealthy people and business owners in my family. You don't talk like any one of them. You don't even know the basics of business. If you did, you would understand foreign competition. You would understand domestic competition. You would understand that many business owners are barely squeaking by and only living on the pittance that's left after they meet payroll. You would understand that most businesses fail within five years.

College is now too expensive to work one's way through. Judging by your record of veracity, I'm guessing he's very intelligent and correct.

 

[francoHFW]

They both get paid money because of the effort and sweat of others.

No. One gets paid by doing a job. The others get paid by risking their own money to create a profit. Their paycheck is that profit, and they decide on what to do with it.

So your answer to employees making a living wage is they should open their own business?

That's one way. The other is to join our military and earn college benefits. Another is to work for a few years and then attend college. Another is to take up a trade and pay for that training yourself. Another is to gain employment where a company will pay for an advanced education. There are all kinds of ways.

I do pay my employees at least twice as much as my competitors AND I don't rob them by making them pay for part of their benefits package.

How can I do this?

1) I own my suppliers and pay substantially less than they do for the same product.
2) I don't have investors.
3) Business make much more money than they tell you.

Look.......not to be insulting, but judging from your posts, you never even so much as ran a hotdog stand. I know wealthy people. I have wealthy people and business owners in my family. You don't talk like any one of them. You don't even know the basics of business. If you did, you would understand foreign competition. You would understand domestic competition. You would understand that many business owners are barely squeaking by and only living on the pittance that's left after they meet payroll. You would understand that most businesses fail within five years.

College is now too expensive to work one's way through. Judging by your record of veracity, I'm guessing he's very intelligent and correct.

College is too expensive and jobs pay too little. Thanks GOP and silly dupes.

 

[Flopper]

Social Security....at the time.....was probably one of the better options available to the government trying to deal with a society in transition.

The sad thing is that it really never did much for the elderly who had made super low incomes (relative to what it paid to people who made more money). In that sense it was something of retirement program.

But, while I don't like it, the fact is that the elderly were being marginalized as the country was going through the I.R. and G.D. The unemployment rate was over 50%. But it should not have been a permanent thing.

Politicians have so screwed it up and put so many people on the rolls that were not supposed to be there...that they are going to screw it up for the people who need it the most.

I am not a fan either and wish I had that money back too.

But, I can see why it was done at the time.

The one bad thing (I shouldn't say just one) about social programs is once they're in place, it's impossible to get rid of them. I call this my raccoon theory.

You see a raccoon digging in your garbage can. So you go in the house and get that nice meaty hambone you were going to throw away at the end of the week. The animal dines in delight. Now give it a few seconds and try to take that hambone back and see what happens.

This is exactly how government handouts work. Once you give it to people, they believe it rightfully belongs to them no matter who provided it. And politicians from both sides are afraid of getting their hand chewed off in an attempt to take it away.

What started off as benevolence turned into over 80 federal welfare programs in less than a century, and the Democrats only want to see more.

Now that we see the problems these programs are causing, it's certainly a good enough reason to never support a candidate or party that wants more of them.

Contrary to popular opinion, social security benefits do not contain any government handouts. All of the funds in the Social Security Trust fund come from three sources, contributions from employees, employers, and interest earned on treasury bills. The fund balance as on 12/31/2017 was 2.8 trillion dollars. In 2017 the fund grew by 44.1 million. The fund has increased in value 49 of the last 60 years. The 11 years the fund decreased in value was due to contributions and interest earned falling below benefits paid. These were all during periods of economic slowdown. The last time this occurred was 1981.

During these times the treasury redeemed the treasury bills owned by the fund sufficient to cover the shortfall. These transfers were assets of the fund and at no time did the treasury transfer taxpayers funds to the Social Security Trust Fund.
Trust Fund Data

There are no funds in the Social Security Trust Fund. There's only a file drawer full of worthless I.O.U.s

The fact that the government records the special issue treasury bills issued to the fund as a liability and the Fund records them as an asset should be proof to any reasonable person that they are not worthless. You do not record worthless items as assets and loans with no obligation to pay as liabilities.

I think his point is that are only repaid by collecting taxes.

Hence, the government simply used the S.S. trust fund to pay for things they didn't have the money for.

Actually, the government uses the money generated by S.S. Trust Fund purchases of treasury bills. They can't use money in the Trust Fund because the fund invests all cash balances in treasury bills. Also the law prohibits commingling Social Security Funds and government funds.

Last year treasury bill purchases by the fund were only 44 million. Ten years ago the Fund purchased 190 million. Within a few years purchases will turn into redemption. When all the treasury bills are redeemed, benefits will be reduced to the amount collected from employee and employer contributions. That would mean a 20% to 25% reduction in benefits.

 

[Andylusion]

They both get paid money because of the effort and sweat of others.

No. One gets paid by doing a job. The others get paid by risking their own money to create a profit. Their paycheck is that profit, and they decide on what to do with it.

So your answer to employees making a living wage is they should open their own business?

That's one way. The other is to join our military and earn college benefits. Another is to work for a few years and then attend college. Another is to take up a trade and pay for that training yourself. Another is to gain employment where a company will pay for an advanced education. There are all kinds of ways.

I do pay my employees at least twice as much as my competitors AND I don't rob them by making them pay for part of their benefits package.

How can I do this?

1) I own my suppliers and pay substantially less than they do for the same product.
2) I don't have investors.
3) Business make much more money than they tell you.

Look.......not to be insulting, but judging from your posts, you never even so much as ran a hotdog stand. I know wealthy people. I have wealthy people and business owners in my family. You don't talk like any one of them. You don't even know the basics of business. If you did, you would understand foreign competition. You would understand domestic competition. You would understand that many business owners are barely squeaking by and only living on the pittance that's left after they meet payroll. You would understand that most businesses fail within five years.

Actually I do know of at least one business owner who sounds exactly like OnePercenter.

It's a business owner who inherited the business from his father. Never had to worry about making payroll, or making new contracts, or figuring out how to make the business work, because his father had done all the hard work of building up the business, while this spoiled brat was pooping his pants. By the time he got the business, the business was raking in millions a year, and he had never needed to balance a check book yet.

I would bet anything, that *IF* onepercenter is a business owner, he didn't build it from the ground up, or he had tons of help. Like you said, real entrepreneurs do not act like him, and he doesn't sound like one of them.

That's one way. The other is to join our military and earn college benefits. Another is to work for a few years and then attend college. Another is to take up a trade and pay for that training yourself. Another is to gain employment where a company will pay for an advanced education. There are all kinds of ways.

So some personal examples.....

I worked at an autoparts store. The assistant manager there, was a guy that was abandoned by his parents. He started off stocking shelves, became a cashier, got into the training program, became assistant manager, and now he runs his own store.

Girl I knew 15 years ago, she worked at Walmart. She got into their tuition reimbursement program, and then paid her way through a Civil Engineer degree, and now works for an engineering firm.

Girls I knew almost 20 years ago, went to school for a degree in art history, came out with no job, and no prospects. Self taught web-design and programming. Started making web sites for all the companies in her area, and expanded to nearby cities.

Guy I worked with at a crappy company, doing QC on circuit boards, for $11/hour. He started doing flooring. Started with his neighbors asking him to do flooring. Then had some local stores ask him to do their floors, and then McDonald's called him up. He was earning as much on the weekends doing flooring, as he was working all week. So he quit the job, and started doing flooring full time.

Had a relative end up in jail, came out, learned pipe fitting, and go into business with some friends. Still there 20 years later.

Have a current friend, a women who was working a crap job, and decided to learn how to make armor. Like actual metal armor, for movies and crap. Worked a year under another guy, learning how to do it, and now runs her own shop selling armor.

There are literally millions of ways to move up in the world.

The idea the left-wingers put out that people are trapped, is a joke. Phil Robertson, was driving around with hand crafted duck callers, having store managers laugh him out of the store. He just kept going to stores until someone started buying them.

There are only two reason left-wingers hold onto their ideology that people are trapped:

1. It's the only way to justify their immoral thievery of other people's money.
2. Because if you admit people can improve their lives with hard work and effort, then it reflects on how pathetic, whiny, and lazy they themselves are.

 

[Andylusion]

The one bad thing (I shouldn't say just one) about social programs is once they're in place, it's impossible to get rid of them. I call this my raccoon theory.

You see a raccoon digging in your garbage can. So you go in the house and get that nice meaty hambone you were going to throw away at the end of the week. The animal dines in delight. Now give it a few seconds and try to take that hambone back and see what happens.

This is exactly how government handouts work. Once you give it to people, they believe it rightfully belongs to them no matter who provided it. And politicians from both sides are afraid of getting their hand chewed off in an attempt to take it away.

What started off as benevolence turned into over 80 federal welfare programs in less than a century, and the Democrats only want to see more.

Now that we see the problems these programs are causing, it's certainly a good enough reason to never support a candidate or party that wants more of them.

Contrary to popular opinion, social security benefits do not contain any government handouts. All of the funds in the Social Security Trust fund come from three sources, contributions from employees, employers, and interest earned on treasury bills. The fund balance as on 12/31/2017 was 2.8 trillion dollars. In 2017 the fund grew by 44.1 million. The fund has increased in value 49 of the last 60 years. The 11 years the fund decreased in value was due to contributions and interest earned falling below benefits paid. These were all during periods of economic slowdown. The last time this occurred was 1981.

During these times the treasury redeemed the treasury bills owned by the fund sufficient to cover the shortfall. These transfers were assets of the fund and at no time did the treasury transfer taxpayers funds to the Social Security Trust Fund.
Trust Fund Data

There are no funds in the Social Security Trust Fund. There's only a file drawer full of worthless I.O.U.s

The fact that the government records the special issue treasury bills issued to the fund as a liability and the Fund records them as an asset should be proof to any reasonable person that they are not worthless. You do not record worthless items as assets and loans with no obligation to pay as liabilities.

I think his point is that are only repaid by collecting taxes.

Hence, the government simply used the S.S. trust fund to pay for things they didn't have the money for.

Actually, the government uses the money generated by S.S. Trust Fund purchases of treasury bills. They can't use money in the Trust Fund because the fund invests all cash balances in treasury bills. Also the law prohibits commingling Social Security Funds and government funds.

Last year treasury bill purchases by the fund were only 44 million. Ten years ago the Fund purchased 190 million. Within a few years purchases will turn into redemption. When all the treasury bills are redeemed, benefits will be reduced to the amount collected from employee and employer contributions. That would mean a 20% to 25% reduction in benefits.

No, they don't. Social Security surplus revenue is not used to purchase anything. The Treasure Bills in the Social Security 'trust fund'. Are not real. If you broke into the trust fund, and stole the T-Bills... you wouldn't be able to sell them. They have no legal standing, and are not marketable.

I don't understand what you mean by they can't use that money.

All the money collected by the Social Security Tax, goes to the IRS. That money is in the same account as all other tax money. It is spent, like all money is.

You seem to be implying that the money goes to the SSA, and then they take the money and buy T-bills. False.
The money all goes to where all taxes go. They write fake T-bills after the fact, to make it look like SS has assets. It doesn't.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Good-Intentions-Entitlement/dp/1503603547/&tag=ff0d01-20

If you actually want to learn the reality of the Social Security "trust fund", you need to read this book. The facts are, the entire system has been a sham, since it was created. There are no assets. There are no securities. There are no T-Bills.

You need to determine for yourself if you are willing to learn the truth, or if you want to stay in your safe-place outside of reality.

Regardless of what choice you make, I have made mine. I'm going to live my life according to the truth. There is no trust fund. There are no T-Bills to be 'redeemed'.

 

[Flopper]

The government is also avoiding paying the market rate of interest they would otherwise have to pay for the nearly free use of the money

They pay the same blended rate to the Trust Funds that they pay on all their debt.

You can't pay interest to yourself. They pay nothing.

You can't pay interest to yourself.

Why not?

They pay nothing.

In 2016, OASI was paid $87 billion.

Write yourself an interest bearing note. Set the interest rate at 10000000000000000000000%. Wait 10 years. Now, how much money do you have?

I need $20. My kid has $20.
I can borrow from my bank and pay them 5% or I can borrow from my kid and pay them 5%.
Their $20 was just sitting there, earning no interest.
Next year, how much does my kid have?

You can't borrow from yourself. That's what the bonds in the so-called "Trust Fund" are: the government borrowing from itself. If you take $20 out of one pocket, and put it in another pocket, next year, how much mone do you have? Even if you pay yourself 10000000000000000000000% interest, you've still got only $20.

You simply can't seem to grasp the fact that the S.S. Trust fund and General Fund are totally separate entries. The General Fund contains tax payer dollars. The S.S Trust Fund contains beneficiary dollars. The two can not be commingled. The only transactions allow by law between the funds are purchases and sale of treasury bills and interest payment. The law specifies that S.S Trust Fund balances will be invested in treasures. The S.S. Trust Fund can redeem treasuries only to pay benefits. The treasury bills are recorded as assets by the S.S. Trust as they are loans and Federal goverment records them as liabilities because they are debts.

Looking at the two funds from an ownership standpoint. The S.S. Trust Fund would be owned by the beneficiaries and General Fund would be owned by the taxpayers.

 

[Andylusion]

You can't pay interest to yourself. They pay nothing.

You can't pay interest to yourself.

Why not?

They pay nothing.

In 2016, OASI was paid $87 billion.

Write yourself an interest bearing note. Set the interest rate at 10000000000000000000000%. Wait 10 years. Now, how much money do you have?

I need $20. My kid has $20.
I can borrow from my bank and pay them 5% or I can borrow from my kid and pay them 5%.
Their $20 was just sitting there, earning no interest.
Next year, how much does my kid have?

You can't borrow from yourself. That's what the bonds in the so-called "Trust Fund" are: the government borrowing from itself. If you take $20 out of one pocket, and put it in another pocket, next year, how much mone do you have? Even if you pay yourself 10000000000000000000000% interest, you've still got only $20.

You simply can't seem to grasp the fact that the S.S. Trust fund and General Fund are totally separate entries. The General Fund contains tax payer dollars. The S.S Trust Fund contains beneficiary dollars. The two can not be commingled. The only transactions allow by law between the funds are purchases and sale of treasury bills and interest payment. The law specifies that S.S Trust Fund balances will be invested in treasures. The S.S. Trust Fund can redeem treasuries only to pay benefits. The treasury bills are recorded as assets by the S.S. Trust as they are loans and Federal goverment records them as liabilities because they are debts.

Looking at the two funds from an ownership standpoint. The S.S. Trust Fund would be owned by the beneficiaries and General Fund would be owned by the taxpayers.

You are the one who doesn't seem to grasp anything. What you are saying..... IS NOT TRUE.

The money is collected by the IRS, and is spent like any other tax money.

I'm sorry. Until you understand that you have been lied to, you can't really continue this discussion with any credibility. You are have been lied to.

This has been documented many places.
https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Good-Intentions-Entitlement/dp/1503603547/&tag=ff0d01-20

Read the book.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I hate to break it to you, but that's alway been my view of SS. But I'm happy to hear how accurate your crystal ball is when you say all those people would be in poverty today without SS. That's because my parents are both on SS, and THEY WOULD be in poverty today if that was all they had. However my father planned well ahead of time for these years.

Oh, I don't question this has always been your belief, as unpopular as it is. What I want you to do is keep preaching about it and be sure to identify yourself as a conservative. Thanks!

Remember what I said about the two words "government" and "force" when combined. There is a reason we never had the option of paying into SS instead of it being mandated.

Oh know, the government is forcing people to save for retirement, the horror. Good, it's helped keep people out of poverty.

Poverty is an arbitrary word and if your goal is to stay above that line (just above it), enjoy. Most of us look forward to more.

No, we already established it;s the poverty limit, that's what we are going by.

The 22 million who would be in poverty might not be if they had saved and not depended on it.

All 22 million? Most?

In that sense, it is simply shifting money and did not do anything independent of what a private program would do.

But we already know the poverty rate dropped among the elderly with the introduction of social security. You seem to want to ignore this point.

With the exception of the really poor...but even then I am not so sure.

A good friend is living in India because her S.S. can't even pay for an apartment in the U.S.

Social Security was never meant to be lived on solely, you;'re still expected to save, I'm sue you know this and not sure what your friends lack of planning has to do with this.

Social Security was never meant to be lived on solely, you;'re still expected to save,

Saving is a lot harder when the government takes 12.4% of your lifetime earnings...…..

Social Security IS savings that you can count on come retirement and it makes it VERY easy for people to put into these savings instead of spending it on something more immediate.

No it's not, if it's savings how can I withdraw today and buy a new pickup?

 

[AntonToo]

Oh, I don't question this has always been your belief, as unpopular as it is. What I want you to do is keep preaching about it and be sure to identify yourself as a conservative. Thanks!

Oh know, the government is forcing people to save for retirement, the horror. Good, it's helped keep people out of poverty.

Poverty is an arbitrary word and if your goal is to stay above that line (just above it), enjoy. Most of us look forward to more.

No, we already established it;s the poverty limit, that's what we are going by.

The 22 million who would be in poverty might not be if they had saved and not depended on it.

All 22 million? Most?

In that sense, it is simply shifting money and did not do anything independent of what a private program would do.

But we already know the poverty rate dropped among the elderly with the introduction of social security. You seem to want to ignore this point.

With the exception of the really poor...but even then I am not so sure.

A good friend is living in India because her S.S. can't even pay for an apartment in the U.S.

Social Security was never meant to be lived on solely, you;'re still expected to save, I'm sue you know this and not sure what your friends lack of planning has to do with this.

Social Security was never meant to be lived on solely, you;'re still expected to save,

Saving is a lot harder when the government takes 12.4% of your lifetime earnings...…..

Social Security IS savings that you can count on come retirement and it makes it VERY easy for people to put into these savings instead of spending it on something more immediate.

No it's not, if it's savings how can I withdraw today and buy a new pickup?

Savings are not defined by withdrawal terms.

And to answer your question - no you can't and that's a GREAT thing about these savings.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Contrary to popular opinion, social security benefits do not contain any government handouts. All of the funds in the Social Security Trust fund come from three sources, contributions from employees, employers, and interest earned on treasury bills. The fund balance as on 12/31/2017 was 2.8 trillion dollars. In 2017 the fund grew by 44.1 million. The fund has increased in value 49 of the last 60 years. The 11 years the fund decreased in value was due to contributions and interest earned falling below benefits paid. These were all during periods of economic slowdown. The last time this occurred was 1981.

During these times the treasury redeemed the treasury bills owned by the fund sufficient to cover the shortfall. These transfers were assets of the fund and at no time did the treasury transfer taxpayers funds to the Social Security Trust Fund.
Trust Fund Data

There are no funds in the Social Security Trust Fund. There's only a file drawer full of worthless I.O.U.s

The fact that the government records the special issue treasury bills issued to the fund as a liability and the Fund records them as an asset should be proof to any reasonable person that they are not worthless. You do not record worthless items as assets and loans with no obligation to pay as liabilities.

I think his point is that are only repaid by collecting taxes.

Hence, the government simply used the S.S. trust fund to pay for things they didn't have the money for.

Actually, the government uses the money generated by S.S. Trust Fund purchases of treasury bills. They can't use money in the Trust Fund because the fund invests all cash balances in treasury bills. Also the law prohibits commingling Social Security Funds and government funds.

Last year treasury bill purchases by the fund were only 44 million. Ten years ago the Fund purchased 190 million. Within a few years purchases will turn into redemption. When all the treasury bills are redeemed, benefits will be reduced to the amount collected from employee and employer contributions. That would mean a 20% to 25% reduction in benefits.

No, they don't. Social Security surplus revenue is not used to purchase anything. The Treasure Bills in the Social Security 'trust fund'. Are not real. If you broke into the trust fund, and stole the T-Bills... you wouldn't be able to sell them. They have no legal standing, and are not marketable.

I don't understand what you mean by they can't use that money.

All the money collected by the Social Security Tax, goes to the IRS. That money is in the same account as all other tax money. It is spent, like all money is.

You seem to be implying that the money goes to the SSA, and then they take the money and buy T-bills. False.
The money all goes to where all taxes go. They write fake T-bills after the fact, to make it look like SS has assets. It doesn't.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Good-Intentions-Entitlement/dp/1503603547/&tag=ff0d01-20

If you actually want to learn the reality of the Social Security "trust fund", you need to read this book. The facts are, the entire system has been a sham, since it was created. There are no assets. There are no securities. There are no T-Bills.

You need to determine for yourself if you are willing to learn the truth, or if you want to stay in your safe-place outside of reality.

Regardless of what choice you make, I have made mine. I'm going to live my life according to the truth. There is no trust fund. There are no T-Bills to be 'redeemed'.

The Treasure Bills in the Social Security 'trust fund'. Are not real.

How much interest does the Trust fund earn on their "fake T-Bills"?

 

[bripat9643]

Poverty is an arbitrary word and if your goal is to stay above that line (just above it), enjoy. Most of us look forward to more.

No, we already established it;s the poverty limit, that's what we are going by.

The 22 million who would be in poverty might not be if they had saved and not depended on it.

All 22 million? Most?

In that sense, it is simply shifting money and did not do anything independent of what a private program would do.

But we already know the poverty rate dropped among the elderly with the introduction of social security. You seem to want to ignore this point.

With the exception of the really poor...but even then I am not so sure.

A good friend is living in India because her S.S. can't even pay for an apartment in the U.S.

Social Security was never meant to be lived on solely, you;'re still expected to save, I'm sue you know this and not sure what your friends lack of planning has to do with this.

Social Security was never meant to be lived on solely, you;'re still expected to save,

Saving is a lot harder when the government takes 12.4% of your lifetime earnings...…..

Social Security IS savings that you can count on come retirement and it makes it VERY easy for people to put into these savings instead of spending it on something more immediate.

No it's not, if it's savings how can I withdraw today and buy a new pickup?

Savings are not defined by withdrawal terms.

And to answer your question - no you can't and that's a GREAT thing about these savings.

Yeah, they pretty much are.

 

[bripat9643]

There are no funds in the Social Security Trust Fund. There's only a file drawer full of worthless I.O.U.s

The fact that the government records the special issue treasury bills issued to the fund as a liability and the Fund records them as an asset should be proof to any reasonable person that they are not worthless. You do not record worthless items as assets and loans with no obligation to pay as liabilities.

I think his point is that are only repaid by collecting taxes.

Hence, the government simply used the S.S. trust fund to pay for things they didn't have the money for.

Actually, the government uses the money generated by S.S. Trust Fund purchases of treasury bills. They can't use money in the Trust Fund because the fund invests all cash balances in treasury bills. Also the law prohibits commingling Social Security Funds and government funds.

Last year treasury bill purchases by the fund were only 44 million. Ten years ago the Fund purchased 190 million. Within a few years purchases will turn into redemption. When all the treasury bills are redeemed, benefits will be reduced to the amount collected from employee and employer contributions. That would mean a 20% to 25% reduction in benefits.

No, they don't. Social Security surplus revenue is not used to purchase anything. The Treasure Bills in the Social Security 'trust fund'. Are not real. If you broke into the trust fund, and stole the T-Bills... you wouldn't be able to sell them. They have no legal standing, and are not marketable.

I don't understand what you mean by they can't use that money.

All the money collected by the Social Security Tax, goes to the IRS. That money is in the same account as all other tax money. It is spent, like all money is.

You seem to be implying that the money goes to the SSA, and then they take the money and buy T-bills. False.
The money all goes to where all taxes go. They write fake T-bills after the fact, to make it look like SS has assets. It doesn't.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Good-Intentions-Entitlement/dp/1503603547/&tag=ff0d01-20

If you actually want to learn the reality of the Social Security "trust fund", you need to read this book. The facts are, the entire system has been a sham, since it was created. There are no assets. There are no securities. There are no T-Bills.

You need to determine for yourself if you are willing to learn the truth, or if you want to stay in your safe-place outside of reality.

Regardless of what choice you make, I have made mine. I'm going to live my life according to the truth. There is no trust fund. There are no T-Bills to be 'redeemed'.

The Treasure Bills in the Social Security 'trust fund'. Are not real.

How much interest does the Trust fund earn on their "fake T-Bills"?

The government earns nothing on them. The "Trust Fund" is a book keeping fiction.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The fact that the government records the special issue treasury bills issued to the fund as a liability and the Fund records them as an asset should be proof to any reasonable person that they are not worthless. You do not record worthless items as assets and loans with no obligation to pay as liabilities.

I think his point is that are only repaid by collecting taxes.

Hence, the government simply used the S.S. trust fund to pay for things they didn't have the money for.

Actually, the government uses the money generated by S.S. Trust Fund purchases of treasury bills. They can't use money in the Trust Fund because the fund invests all cash balances in treasury bills. Also the law prohibits commingling Social Security Funds and government funds.

Last year treasury bill purchases by the fund were only 44 million. Ten years ago the Fund purchased 190 million. Within a few years purchases will turn into redemption. When all the treasury bills are redeemed, benefits will be reduced to the amount collected from employee and employer contributions. That would mean a 20% to 25% reduction in benefits.

No, they don't. Social Security surplus revenue is not used to purchase anything. The Treasure Bills in the Social Security 'trust fund'. Are not real. If you broke into the trust fund, and stole the T-Bills... you wouldn't be able to sell them. They have no legal standing, and are not marketable.

I don't understand what you mean by they can't use that money.

All the money collected by the Social Security Tax, goes to the IRS. That money is in the same account as all other tax money. It is spent, like all money is.

You seem to be implying that the money goes to the SSA, and then they take the money and buy T-bills. False.
The money all goes to where all taxes go. They write fake T-bills after the fact, to make it look like SS has assets. It doesn't.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Good-Intentions-Entitlement/dp/1503603547/&tag=ff0d01-20

If you actually want to learn the reality of the Social Security "trust fund", you need to read this book. The facts are, the entire system has been a sham, since it was created. There are no assets. There are no securities. There are no T-Bills.

You need to determine for yourself if you are willing to learn the truth, or if you want to stay in your safe-place outside of reality.

Regardless of what choice you make, I have made mine. I'm going to live my life according to the truth. There is no trust fund. There are no T-Bills to be 'redeemed'.

The Treasure Bills in the Social Security 'trust fund'. Are not real.

How much interest does the Trust fund earn on their "fake T-Bills"?

The government earns nothing on them. The "Trust Fund" is a book keeping fiction.

A fiction that earned $87 billion in 2016.

 

[bripat9643]

I think his point is that are only repaid by collecting taxes.

Hence, the government simply used the S.S. trust fund to pay for things they didn't have the money for.

Actually, the government uses the money generated by S.S. Trust Fund purchases of treasury bills. They can't use money in the Trust Fund because the fund invests all cash balances in treasury bills. Also the law prohibits commingling Social Security Funds and government funds.

Last year treasury bill purchases by the fund were only 44 million. Ten years ago the Fund purchased 190 million. Within a few years purchases will turn into redemption. When all the treasury bills are redeemed, benefits will be reduced to the amount collected from employee and employer contributions. That would mean a 20% to 25% reduction in benefits.

No, they don't. Social Security surplus revenue is not used to purchase anything. The Treasure Bills in the Social Security 'trust fund'. Are not real. If you broke into the trust fund, and stole the T-Bills... you wouldn't be able to sell them. They have no legal standing, and are not marketable.

I don't understand what you mean by they can't use that money.

All the money collected by the Social Security Tax, goes to the IRS. That money is in the same account as all other tax money. It is spent, like all money is.

You seem to be implying that the money goes to the SSA, and then they take the money and buy T-bills. False.
The money all goes to where all taxes go. They write fake T-bills after the fact, to make it look like SS has assets. It doesn't.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Good-Intentions-Entitlement/dp/1503603547/&tag=ff0d01-20

If you actually want to learn the reality of the Social Security "trust fund", you need to read this book. The facts are, the entire system has been a sham, since it was created. There are no assets. There are no securities. There are no T-Bills.

You need to determine for yourself if you are willing to learn the truth, or if you want to stay in your safe-place outside of reality.

Regardless of what choice you make, I have made mine. I'm going to live my life according to the truth. There is no trust fund. There are no T-Bills to be 'redeemed'.

The Treasure Bills in the Social Security 'trust fund'. Are not real.

How much interest does the Trust fund earn on their "fake T-Bills"?

The government earns nothing on them. The "Trust Fund" is a book keeping fiction.

A fiction that earned $87 billion in 2016.

Really? Who paid the $87 billion?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Actually, the government uses the money generated by S.S. Trust Fund purchases of treasury bills. They can't use money in the Trust Fund because the fund invests all cash balances in treasury bills. Also the law prohibits commingling Social Security Funds and government funds.

Last year treasury bill purchases by the fund were only 44 million. Ten years ago the Fund purchased 190 million. Within a few years purchases will turn into redemption. When all the treasury bills are redeemed, benefits will be reduced to the amount collected from employee and employer contributions. That would mean a 20% to 25% reduction in benefits.

No, they don't. Social Security surplus revenue is not used to purchase anything. The Treasure Bills in the Social Security 'trust fund'. Are not real. If you broke into the trust fund, and stole the T-Bills... you wouldn't be able to sell them. They have no legal standing, and are not marketable.

I don't understand what you mean by they can't use that money.

All the money collected by the Social Security Tax, goes to the IRS. That money is in the same account as all other tax money. It is spent, like all money is.

You seem to be implying that the money goes to the SSA, and then they take the money and buy T-bills. False.
The money all goes to where all taxes go. They write fake T-bills after the fact, to make it look like SS has assets. It doesn't.

https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Good-Intentions-Entitlement/dp/1503603547/&tag=ff0d01-20

If you actually want to learn the reality of the Social Security "trust fund", you need to read this book. The facts are, the entire system has been a sham, since it was created. There are no assets. There are no securities. There are no T-Bills.

You need to determine for yourself if you are willing to learn the truth, or if you want to stay in your safe-place outside of reality.

Regardless of what choice you make, I have made mine. I'm going to live my life according to the truth. There is no trust fund. There are no T-Bills to be 'redeemed'.

The Treasure Bills in the Social Security 'trust fund'. Are not real.

How much interest does the Trust fund earn on their "fake T-Bills"?

The government earns nothing on them. The "Trust Fund" is a book keeping fiction.

A fiction that earned $87 billion in 2016.

Really? Who paid the $87 billion?

The same entity that pays interest on all outstanding US Treasury securities, the US Treasury.