Company Dumps Healthcare Plan

[RDD_1210]

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

Reality disagrees with you.

So sorry.

Once again the far left tries to claim they live in reality..

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

Sorry but reality will always disagree with the far left..

Blah Blah, far left. Blah blah.

Buzz away now.

 

[Jarhead]

Sure? of course not. But evidence suggests that it can and does work in other countries. But we have seen that a private based system doesn't work for everyone.

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

Reality disagrees with you.

So sorry.

Actually, it doesn't work as WELL for everyone.

Yes, it works FOR everyone....but not necessarily as well as private healthcare for those that can afford it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The facts don't agree with you. EVERY SINGLE Inustrialized country has a more socialized healthcare system than we do.

So....?

So? Maybe if you didn't cut off half my quote, you wouldn't need to ask, "so?"

Oh.. so you -don't- have a sustainable point.
10-4. Thank you.

 

[Care4all]

The large employer gets assessed at $2000-$3000 per employee per year, (as tax penalty) and this $2000-$3000 per employee is not tax deductible, as paying for insurance would be, and the large employer's employees would not be eligible for any subsidies if he offers them the $375 towards health insurance on the exchange, AND the $375 that he would give employees to buy insurance is also not tax deductible because the law states you must be buying the health insurance for the employee, not for the employee to buy their own, so the IRS would not allow that $375 as a deduction...they could just give them all a $375 raise, then that could be deductible, i suppose....

Most large companies offer health care insurance because their employees demand it, and when they go and get rid of the benefit, it is the beginning of their best employees to a mass exodus, of them leaving and going to companies that do offer it....

Before the Obama care mandate, large corporations could have dropped their insurance any time they wanted, or never have offered it in the first place....there was nothing stopping them, no penalties or any of that...yet most of them offered health care insurance....for recruiting the best employees.

Good luck to your friend's company!

The penalty is deductible as a cost of doing business. The money paid to employees as compensation is deductible
Before Obamacare companies decided what and whether to offer. Now they must either offer hugely expensive plans or pay a penalty.
This at least frees up the company to offer its best employees more money etc to offset the insurance costs.

no it isn't deductible, it's a tax penalty...are you saying if a company fails to pay their taxes and gets penalized with an assessment penalty, that they can deduct this tax penalty, for BREAKING THE LAW, from their profits as a cost of doing business????

If that's the case, then I throw up my hands in the air!!! We have one messed up system...

 

[RDD_1210]

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

Reality disagrees with you.

So sorry.

Actually, it doesn't work as WELL for everyone.

Yes, it works FOR everyone....but not necessarily as well as private healthcare for those that can afford it.

No arguments there. Our system is THE BEST in the world....if you can afford it. Which way too many can't. So our system is a system for the few, not for the whole. Which is why I supported a public option initially. Let everyone have something, and those who want and can afford it can purchase premium coverage. Many countries have a system like this that works for them.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

ACA is basically the Nixon, Dole, Heritage plan. Just shows how mindlessly obstructionist the new bs GOP is, and what a joke our corporate media is...

How does the original source of the idea make it any better/worse of an idea?

The us versus them mentality won't give you a straight answer to that one.

 

[francoHFW]

Rich people can still get their cadillac plans or pay cash, same with rich furriners. And they'll be tinkering with ACA FOREVER. Poor fear mongered hater dupes...

 

[RDD_1210]

So....?

So? Maybe if you didn't cut off half my quote, you wouldn't need to ask, "so?"

Oh.. so you -don't- have a sustainable point.
10-4. Thank you.

What? You literally deleted half of my original statement that answered your "so?" question. Which part is confusing you?

 

[Kosh]

Sure? of course not. But evidence suggests that it can and does work in other countries. But we have seen that a private based system doesn't work for everyone.

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

Yet conservatives can't find even ONE poll EVER from a UHC nation that wants US style H/C!

Another far left poster that denies reality based on faulty far left programming..

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

No real proof exists to support that it does..

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

ACA is basically the Nixon, Dole, Heritage plan. Just shows how mindlessly obstructionist the new bs GOP is, and what a joke our corporate media is...

Yeah. We're mindless. In the meantime, none of this government mandated crap, in truth, this wealth-redistribution scheme, is even necessary to resolve the problem . . . but for the mindlessly obstructionist political left's refusal to mind its own friggin' business, leave folks alone and allow for the voluntary initiatives proposed by conservatives for decades. These would not only dramatically expand the blanket of coverage beyond that which the government will achieve, but improve the quality of and reduce the costs of health care. The latter is artificially inflated by government meddling, and, now, it will be artificially inflated even more.

Leftist think: if it ain't the government, it ain't real.

 

[The Rabbi]

The facts don't agree with you. EVERY SINGLE Inustrialized country has a more socialized healthcare system than we do. Every one. And we are far from the best healthcare system, so.......you do the math.

And you pointing out a story of a woman in London or Canada or whatever who received shitty healthcare doesn't invalidate the fact that socialized medicine can and does work.

Reality does not sit well with you.
Every country is desperately trying to rein in costs. Every country's citizens are having to wait longer, have fewer doctor choices, or are denied cutting edge treatment. That they live healthier is testament to lifestyle issues, not socialized medicine.

It must be fun when you get to make up your story as you go.

"I will make up a bunch of horrible things that are happening to EVERY country and then use a lame cop-out as to why those countries are still statistically better despite all of those horrible things I just made up. And yes, this is happening in every country" - Rabbi

I have made up notbhing. You, otoh.
Germany
Germany passes unpopular healthcare reform | Reuters

France
France's Health-Care System Is Going Broke - Businessweek

Denmark
Global Legal Monitor: Denmark: Government Plans Health Care Reforms | Global Legal Monitor | Law Library of Congress | Library of Congress

Britain
NHS reforms - Health care reform explained | The Nuffield Trust

So tell me how socialized medicine works in every other country. I dare you. I double dare you.

 

[RDD_1210]

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

Yet conservatives can't find even ONE poll EVER from a UHC nation that wants US style H/C!

Another far left poster that denies reality based on faulty far left programming..

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

No real proof exists to support that it does..

Of course there's proof. But you don't care about that.

You're quickly becoming most worthless poster on this site, and THAT is a fucking achievement.

 

[Dad2three]

The large employer gets assessed at $2000-$3000 per employee per year, (as tax penalty) and this $2000-$3000 per employee is not tax deductible, as paying for insurance would be, and the large employer's employees would not be eligible for any subsidies if he offers them the $350 towards health insurance on the exchange, AND the $350 that he would give employees to buy insurance is also not tax deductible because the law states you must be buying the health insurance for the employee, not for the employee to buy their own, so the IRS would not allow that $350 as a deduction...they could just give them all a $350 raise, then that could be deductible, i suppose....

Most large companies offer health care insurance because their employees demand it, and when they go and get rid of the benefit, it is the beginning of their best employees to a mass exodus, of them leaving and going to companies that do offer it....

Before the Obama care mandate, large corporations could have dropped their insurance any time they wanted, or never have offered it in the first place....there was nothing stopping them, no penalties or any of that...yet most of them offered health care insurance....for recruiting the best employees.

Good luck to your friend's company!

If any of these employees at your friend's company have spouses whose employer has health insurance they would be forced to go on their spouse's plan before they could go on to the exchange with subsidies as well...

Yes they would be covered by the spouse's insurance. They could pick up the employer's 350/mo i other ways.

1. What are the Employer Shared Responsibility provisions?

For 2015 and after, employers employing at least a certain number of employees (generally 50 full-time employees or a combination of full-time and part-time employees that is equivalent to 50 full-time employees) will be subject to the Employer Shared Responsibility provisions under section 4980H of the Internal Revenue Code (added to the Code by the Affordable Care Act). As defined by the statute, a full-time employee is an individual employed on average at least 30 hours of service per week. An employer that meets the 50 full-time employee threshold is referred to as an applicable large employer.

Under the Employer Shared Responsibility provisions, if these employers do not offer affordable health coverage that provides a minimum level of coverage to their full-time employees (and their dependents), the employer may be subject to an Employer Shared Responsibility payment if at least one of its full-time employees receives a premium tax credit for purchasing individual coverage on one of the new Affordable Insurance Exchanges, also called a Health Insurance Marketplace (Marketplace).

2. When do the Employer Shared Responsibility provisions go into effect?

The Employer Shared Responsibility provisions generally are not effective until Jan. 1, 2015, meaning that no Employer Shared Responsibility payments will be assessed for 2014. See Notice 2013‑45. Employers will use information about the number of employees they employ and their hours of service during 2014 to determine whether they employ enough employees to be an applicable large employer for 2015


Questions and Answers on Employer Shared Responsibility Provisions Under the Affordable Care Act

 

[TooTall]

A friend of mine is the benefits manager for a small company (500 employees). He tells me as of 12/31 they will no longer offer health insurance. Why?
Well, currently they spend $4M/yr on health coverage for their employees. The employees kick in another 1.5M. By dropping coverage he pays the $1M penalty. But in return he can give each employee $350/mo towards their own coverage and still come out ahead. Some employees can get more even more if the company wants to keep them. The lower paid employees can qualify for gov't subsidies, which they couldnt before because the company offered a health plan. ANd between subsidies and employer contribution they can pick exactly the coverage they want, so better for them.
All in all it's a win win for employer and employee. But since this is a zero sum game the loser is of coure the taxpayer, who will be subsidizing all the lower paid employees who dont have coverage from their jobs.
This will of course drive up the cost of Obamacare astronomically.

Every company similiarly situated is doing exactly the same analysis and they will come to exactly the same concliusions: cheaper to kick employees off the plan and just pay them a little extra.

Therein ^^^ is this truth: Companies and corporations are amoral - some CEOs, CFOs, etc. are immoral; and the Government has a duty to be ethical. We can fire elected government officials, but not those in the private sector who are immoral. Strange, isn't it.

At least we fired Lois Lerner and a lot of VA administrators. Of course, in the private sector the unethical get found out and go broke.

 

[Kosh]

Reality disagrees with you.

So sorry.

Actually, it doesn't work as WELL for everyone.

Yes, it works FOR everyone....but not necessarily as well as private healthcare for those that can afford it.

No arguments there. Our system is THE BEST in the world....if you can afford it. Which way too many can't. So our system is a system for the few, not for the whole. Which is why I supported a public option initially. Let everyone have something, and those who want and can afford it can purchase premium coverage. Many countries have a system like this that works for them.

And the far left mentality shows once again..

Many had a system that worked for them, but now pay more for less.

So that was the solution? to pay more for less to cover things that are not medically necessary for everyone?

 

[Jarhead]

Reality disagrees with you.

So sorry.

Actually, it doesn't work as WELL for everyone.

Yes, it works FOR everyone....but not necessarily as well as private healthcare for those that can afford it.

No arguments there. Our system is THE BEST in the world....if you can afford it. Which way too many can't. So our system is a system for the few, not for the whole. Which is why I supported a public option initially. Let everyone have something, and those who want and can afford it can purchase premium coverage. Many countries have a system like this that works for them.

But the way the ACA was set up ...it will be a total failure and the only alternative will be a single payer.

This law should never have been pushed through as it was. The GOP was right to want to repeal it so we can suit down and come up with a plan that assists those that need it without mandating others to do anything.

The GOP was well aware that this plan, when implemented, will fail and be at a point of no return...FORCING a single payer for all.

Obamas ego got in the way of this one big time.

 

[The Rabbi]

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

Yet conservatives can't find even ONE poll EVER from a UHC nation that wants US style H/C!

Another far left poster that denies reality based on faulty far left programming..

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

No real proof exists to support that it does..

Th only ones it works for are the bureaucrats administering it. The patients get screwed. The doctors get screwed. The hospitals get screwed. The drug companies get screwed. The taxpayer gets screwed. Its one big socialized fuck-fest.

 

[Jarhead]

Actually, it doesn't work as WELL for everyone.

Yes, it works FOR everyone....but not necessarily as well as private healthcare for those that can afford it.

No arguments there. Our system is THE BEST in the world....if you can afford it. Which way too many can't. So our system is a system for the few, not for the whole. Which is why I supported a public option initially. Let everyone have something, and those who want and can afford it can purchase premium coverage. Many countries have a system like this that works for them.

And the far left mentality shows once again..

Many had a system that worked for them, but now pay more for less.

So that was the solution? to pay more for less to cover things that are not medically necessary for everyone?

that was not necessarily the intent of many....but no doubt the result.

 

[Kosh]

Yet conservatives can't find even ONE poll EVER from a UHC nation that wants US style H/C!

Another far left poster that denies reality based on faulty far left programming..

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

No real proof exists to support that it does..

Of course there's proof. But you don't care about that.

You're quickly becoming most worthless poster on this site, and THAT is a fucking achievement.

I said real proof not fantasy far left blog sites..

A blog site that supports your fantasies is not proof no matter how much you want it to be..

Government run healthcare "doesn't work for everyone".

No real proof exists to support that it does.

 

[Dad2three]

Reality does not sit well with you.
Every country is desperately trying to rein in costs. Every country's citizens are having to wait longer, have fewer doctor choices, or are denied cutting edge treatment. That they live healthier is testament to lifestyle issues, not socialized medicine.

It must be fun when you get to make up your story as you go.

"I will make up a bunch of horrible things that are happening to EVERY country and then use a lame cop-out as to why those countries are still statistically better despite all of those horrible things I just made up. And yes, this is happening in every country" - Rabbi

I have made up notbhing. You, otoh.
Germany
Germany passes unpopular healthcare reform | Reuters

France
France's Health-Care System Is Going Broke - Businessweek

Denmark
Global Legal Monitor: Denmark: Government Plans Health Care Reforms | Global Legal Monitor | Law Library of Congress | Library of Congress

Britain
NHS reforms - Health care reform explained | The Nuffield Trust

So tell me how socialized medicine works in every other country. I dare you. I double dare you.

LOL

Sep 17, 2009

New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage

Uninsured, working-age Americans have 40 percent higher death risk than privately insured counterparts
New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage | Harvard Gazette


ONE POLL EVER THE UHC NATIONS WANT US STYLE H/C?