Credit Card Abuses

[RodISHI]

o hell no i am not talking about when you use your credit card to pay...i am talking about simply letting your car insurance lapse..then they say your credit score has dropped and you are more of a rish blah blah blah

Banks and insurance companies have become one in the same.

This charging for car insurance based on credit score is crap. So is charging an employee $5.00 to cash their paycheck at the source bank where their employer banks. They just rips my knickers. An employee makes what $5 to $20 and hour and they have to pay their employers bank $5 to cash their paycheck if they don't bank with them. It's literally highway robbery by these national/international banks so some prick can make a few hundred million a year.

Several years ago I took a job that paid $8 an hour. When I cashed my little paycheck at Wells Fargo where the employer banked the teller took $5 out of it. I asked him for a reciept and he refused to give me one. I told him look you take money you make a reciept for what you take. I would not leave without a reciept. He said I have no way of making you a reciept. I said well I really don't care if you have to write it out by hand but when you take money a person has the right to recieve a reciept. Now fork one over or give me my five bucks back. I finally got a reciept.

 

[jillian]

Excellent. This shows that you were well able to handle the situation on your own and didn't require an act of Congress to save you.
If the general public refuses to abide by changing the rules in mid stream then we'll find that they change their tactics. It's only because so many people are willing to play their game that they continue. The public has the ability to make current credit ratings obsolete.

That's nice... so you think less capable people should be victimized by banks?

Everyone is that capable, Jillian. If you're responsible enough to have a license, drive, and own a car, you were also capable of reading everything you signed, you're capable of handling whatever arises with said responsibilities.. It's more getting off your tail and *doing* it, rather than screaming 'victim', and doing nothing waiiting to see what happens...

Too many people are content to just wait and see...

It doesn't matter if you read what you sign if you're not clearly informed and even if you are, if every bank is engaging in the same abuses, then where's your protection. It's not like anything a bank gives you is negotiable. It's an adhesion contract... I think consumer's should be protected from that.

What exactly do you find objectionable, if anything, about a Bill of Rights that keep banks from doing things like shortening the payment cycle in order to run up interest costs?

There's nothing in the BOR which would keep someone from having to pay legitimate debt. It just keeps them from getting ripped off while doing it.... kind of like requiring clear language in real estate contracts so you don't need a lawyer to understand what is in front of you.

which brings me back to my original point... I really don't understand why anyone has a problem with that.

I'm not arguing, fussing, playing ... I'm truly not following the philosophy behind it.

 

[Dis]

That's nice... so you think less capable people should be victimized by banks?

Everyone is that capable, Jillian. If you're responsible enough to have a license, drive, and own a car, you were also capable of reading everything you signed, you're capable of handling whatever arises with said responsibilities.. It's more getting off your tail and *doing* it, rather than screaming 'victim', and doing nothing waiiting to see what happens...

Too many people are content to just wait and see...

It doesn't matter if you read what you sign if you're not clearly informed and even if you are, if every bank is engaging in the same abuses, then where's your protection. It's not like anything a bank gives you is negotiable. It's an adhesion contract... I think consumer's should be protected from that.

What exactly do you find objectionable, if anything, about a Bill of Rights that keep banks from doing things like shortening the payment cycle in order to run up interest costs?

There's nothing in the BOR which would keep someone from having to pay legitimate debt. It just keeps them from getting ripped off while doing it.... kind of like requiring clear language in real estate contracts so you don't need a lawyer to understand what is in front of you.

which brings me back to my original point... I really don't understand why anyone has a problem with that.

I'm not arguing, fussing, playing ... I'm truly not following the philosophy behind it.

Personally, I've always found that the easier you make something for someone, the more they're going to take advantage of it... You dumb down the wording, and they're going to find a loophole. How is THAT the banks, or CC companys fault? "Oh, well they should have been more explicit"?

 

[driveby]

They'll just tell you that sending you a bill is a courtesy, and not a requirement on their part, and that it's your obligation to make sure your account gets paid, and paid on time.

(They did that to me when the finance company for my car merged with another company, AND change payment locations.) I'd had a total of 2 car loans with them over the course of maybe 10-12 years, and suddenly out of nowhere, I wasn't getting bills, one month my account was "closed" and my check returned to me, etc. I tried to set up online payment, and couldn't do that because my account with them was an old "T-18 account", whatever that is, and couldn't be converted (wtf?!), etc. They ended up charging me $50 a month for 4 months for different excuses that had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with them.

They refused to drop those charges, even tho looking back on my account, my payments were always early, and my loans always paid off way ahead of schedule, so I called for a payoff balance, got one, subtracted $300 from it ($200 for "late" charges, plus $100 for my inconvenience), yanked the funds from my savings account, mailed them a cashiers check for the remaining balance, and wrote on the back "cashing of this check signifies payment in full for account XXXXXXXXX". I haven't heard from them since...that was in Nov.

Good point I had not thought about the six different addresses they have. Without the correct address your payment does not get credited on time.

It's like playing catch me to pay me if you can for new account holders that bought something with an in store credit card.

When it came down to it I paid what I knew we owed and documented the bs over charges with a letter to them. Nothing more.

That's what pissed me off so bad.. Nothing changed on my end. Not my address, not my vehicle, not my insurance, NOTHING. Everything changed on THEIR end. *I* even took an old copy of a bill, and mailed the current months payment to that address with a letter explaining I haven't received a bill in 2 month, so am enclosing an older one with account info. THAT'S when the jackasses mailed my payment back to me (15 days later) with a note stating my account had been closed. That's about when I started looking at the payoff balance vs. another year of that shit..

Heh. Bastards.

I now have my third new car... Through another finance company, rather than staying with one I'd been with for 12-ish years.

When ( or if ) the credit crunch passes, they'll be calling back wanting you to be a customer again, at which time i hope you "politely" let them know what you think of them.......

 

[jillian]

Personally, I've always found that the easier you make something for someone, the more they're going to take advantage of it... You dumb down the wording, and they're going to find a loophole. How is THAT the banks, or CC companys fault? "Oh, well they should have been more explicit"?

I understand that as a philosophy, I guess, although I disagree with it totally because, by nature, the banks/corporations have so much greater power than the consumer. And corporations simply don't do the right thing if left to their own devices because corporations are wholly amoral.

 

[RodISHI]

It is not always a matter of someone understanding what they are signing or the ability to handle these situations. Truth is if we had not been through the ringer with Wells Fargo I would have had no clue. People should not have to have a LAW DEGREE to use a bank. Either banks need to be good citizens and work at being fair minded or they need to get out of business. Loan sharking was outllawed for a reason.

You take a guy or gal working 50 hours a week to make ends meet and then stress them with some unscrupulous banking theives that work in the grey areas. It is asking to much for people to accept.

If the congress is unwilling to protect the people, the people do not need them.

 

[Dis]

Good point I had not thought about the six different addresses they have. Without the correct address your payment does not get credited on time.

It's like playing catch me to pay me if you can for new account holders that bought something with an in store credit card.

When it came down to it I paid what I knew we owed and documented the bs over charges with a letter to them. Nothing more.

That's what pissed me off so bad.. Nothing changed on my end. Not my address, not my vehicle, not my insurance, NOTHING. Everything changed on THEIR end. *I* even took an old copy of a bill, and mailed the current months payment to that address with a letter explaining I haven't received a bill in 2 month, so am enclosing an older one with account info. THAT'S when the jackasses mailed my payment back to me (15 days later) with a note stating my account had been closed. That's about when I started looking at the payoff balance vs. another year of that shit..

Heh. Bastards.

I now have my third new car... Through another finance company, rather than staying with one I'd been with for 12-ish years.

When ( or if ) the credit crunch passes, they'll be calling back wanting you to be a customer again, at which time i hope you "politely" let them know what you think of them.......

Actually, they sent me a separate letter with my payoff receipt hoping I'd come back.. I was feeling rather bitchy that say, so I just wrote in red marker across their whole letter "Seriously?" and sent it to their accounts manager.

 

[RodISHI]

Personally, I've always found that the easier you make something for someone, the more they're going to take advantage of it... You dumb down the wording, and they're going to find a loophole. How is THAT the banks, or CC companys fault? "Oh, well they should have been more explicit"?

I understand that as a philosophy, I guess, although I disagree with it totally because, by nature, the banks/corporations have so much greater power than the consumer. And corporations simply don't do the right thing if left to their own devices because corporations are wholly amoral.

Greater power being the key. The average person or business that uses credit can not fight a bank. Major banks are abusing this power. They may have contracts but that does not mean they will abide in the contracts that they wrote. I may not know much about banking but I know when I sign a contract I expect both parties to meet the obligations of that contract. You can't have one party that is a giant changing the contract mid way at their own discretion. That is exactly what these banks are doing and have been doing. If I sign one piece of paper a bank has no legal right to add to that original paper I signed and agreed too. Credit card companies/Banks are changing the contracts after the fact.

 

[driveby]

That's what pissed me off so bad.. Nothing changed on my end. Not my address, not my vehicle, not my insurance, NOTHING. Everything changed on THEIR end. *I* even took an old copy of a bill, and mailed the current months payment to that address with a letter explaining I haven't received a bill in 2 month, so am enclosing an older one with account info. THAT'S when the jackasses mailed my payment back to me (15 days later) with a note stating my account had been closed. That's about when I started looking at the payoff balance vs. another year of that shit..

Heh. Bastards.

I now have my third new car... Through another finance company, rather than staying with one I'd been with for 12-ish years.

When ( or if ) the credit crunch passes, they'll be calling back wanting you to be a customer again, at which time i hope you "politely" let them know what you think of them.......

Actually, they sent me a separate letter with my payoff receipt hoping I'd come back.. I was feeling rather bitchy that say, so I just wrote in red marker across their whole letter "Seriously?" and sent it to their accounts manager.

Jeez, they have no shame. You went easy on 'em ....

 

[Dis]

Personally, I've always found that the easier you make something for someone, the more they're going to take advantage of it... You dumb down the wording, and they're going to find a loophole. How is THAT the banks, or CC companys fault? "Oh, well they should have been more explicit"?

I understand that as a philosophy, I guess, although I disagree with it totally because, by nature, the banks/corporations have so much greater power than the consumer. And corporations simply don't do the right thing if left to their own devices because corporations are wholly amoral.

On the flip side, if left to their own devices, as seen constantly by frivolous lawsuits, and the like, PEOPLE as a whole, don't simply do the right thing...

Think about it... Companies have to stay one or two steps ahead of the masses, or they'll get screwed just because someone found a loophole.. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it's there..

I watched someone in a store the other day.. She was screaming at a manager and a clerk, because something was improperly marked.. She was buying a bike, and the printed tag on the item itself said $14.99, rather than $41.99. She KNEW flat out that tag was wrong; it was also the only one marked as such. Someone quite obviously made a mistake.. That wasn't important to her.. The fact that she was morally, and ethically wrong wasn't important to her. What was important to her was the employee marked the item wrong, and should have to "pay" for the mistake, and the manager should have to "pay" for not immediately catching the mistake.

Why are we blaming companies for what we, as humans, force them to do?

 

[Said1]

But there is also consumer protection laws with respect to pricing. They stemmed from somewhere, for a reason.

 

[Dis]

But there is also consumer protection laws with respect to pricing. They stemmed from somewhere, for a reason.

Would you have forced that store to give you that one bike at $14.99, or would you have admitted you knew it was obviously wrong, and pointed it out to the store, while paying what you KNEW was the correct price?

 

[Said1]

I might. Depends on my mood.

But seriously, there exceptions to every scenario. Exceptions provide the basis for understanding exception handling, not the premise to change consumer protection laws.

 

[Dis]

I might. Depends on my mood.

But seriously, there exceptions to every scenario. Exceptions provide the basis for understanding exception handling, not the premise to change consumer protection laws.

See, I think that's just wrong... It's obvious, it's plain as day that it was a *mistake*, and someone would do that anyway, which forces the company to lose money..then prices are forced to rise and cover those types of losses, as well as regular outright theft.. Yet, they (consumers) somehow feel they're besting the store, and teaching them a lesson all while saving a buck(that they're not entitled too) on something they know full well an honest mistake was made on.. People are human. Mistakes happen.. Yet our first instinct as a society is to burn someone at the stake to teach them a lesson, while at the same time bitching because of new rules, increased prices, additional security measures that make us feel like rats in cages...

Both consumers, AND CC companies/banks are the reasons things are so fucked up. No one side holds total blame, and we're asking for it.

 

[007]

I think they SHOULD make it clear that if you pay your VISA bill late, that Mastercard WILL impose a default interest rate, sometimes 30%, even if you've never been so much as five minutes late paying your mastercard.

This happened to me. When I moved back here from Reno I missed a payment on ONE of my five credit cards. The bill got tossed into a pile or something, I don't know, but I missed it in the confusion of moving. In any case, I didn't panic because I'd had that card for over twenty years. I thought I'll just call them and pay whatever to catch it back up. Well I did that BUT, they hiked my interest rate from 10% up to 23% without notice. I called them and asked them to lower it back down to what it was and they said, "that might be possible if I didn't make another late payment for a YEAR!" I told them to stick their card where the sun don't shine and close the account. In the meantime, the other four credit cards I had began automatically raising my interest rate also, AND lowered my credit limit. I called and asked them what they were doing that for when I'd never, EVER missed or had a late payment to THEM, and they said because of what happened on the OTHER card. I also then told them to stick their cards where the sun don't shine and close the accounts. I now have NO credit card, and feel absolutely LIBERATED. I don't think there's a bigger group of SHYSTERS on earth than those filthy credit card companies.

 

[RodISHI]

But there is also consumer protection laws with respect to pricing. They stemmed from somewhere, for a reason.

Would you have forced that store to give you that one bike at $14.99, or would you have admitted you knew it was obviously wrong, and pointed it out to the store, while paying what you KNEW was the correct price?

I wouldn't if it was only an obvious error. On the otherhand it is irritating that I go to a walmart to buy a certain brand of cheese and each time I get to the register it scans out at two dollars more than it is marked on the shelf. You'd think after a year of asking them to either change the price on the shelf or change the amount in the scan they would fix it. They don't though because it is supposed to be a WIC approved product. Instead they gouge the customers that are not watching the tallies on their bills.

 

[RodISHI]

I think they SHOULD make it clear that if you pay your VISA bill late, that Mastercard WILL impose a default interest rate, sometimes 30%, even if you've never been so much as five minutes late paying your mastercard.

This happened to me. When I moved back here from Reno I missed a payment on ONE of my five credit cards. The bill got tossed into a pile or something, I don't know, but I missed it in the confusion of moving. In any case, I didn't panic because I'd had that card for over twenty years. I thought I'll just call them and pay whatever to catch it back up. Well I did that BUT, they hiked my interest rate from 10% up to 23% without notice. I called them and asked them to lower it back down to what it was and they said, "that might be possible if I didn't make another late payment for a YEAR!" I told them to stick their card where the sun don't shine and close the account. In the meantime, the other four credit cards I had began automatically raising my interest rate also, AND lowered my credit limit. I called and asked them what they were doing that for when I'd never, EVER missed or had a late payment to THEM, and they said because of what happened on the OTHER card. I also then told them to stick their cards where the sun don't shine and close the accounts. I now have NO credit card, and feel absolutely LIBERATED. I don't think there's a bigger group of SHYSTERS on earth than those filthy credit card companies.

Since you now closed all of your accounts your credit score took a dive. Now your insurance rates will also be hiked.

 

[jillian]

I think they SHOULD make it clear that if you pay your VISA bill late, that Mastercard WILL impose a default interest rate, sometimes 30%, even if you've never been so much as five minutes late paying your mastercard.

This happened to me. When I moved back here from Reno I missed a payment on ONE of my five credit cards. The bill got tossed into a pile or something, I don't know, but I missed it in the confusion of moving. In any case, I didn't panic because I'd had that card for over twenty years. I thought I'll just call them and pay whatever to catch it back up. Well I did that BUT, they hiked my interest rate from 10% up to 23% without notice. I called them and asked them to lower it back down to what it was and they said, "that might be possible if I didn't make another late payment for a YEAR!" I told them to stick their card where the sun don't shine and close the account. In the meantime, the other four credit cards I had began automatically raising my interest rate also, AND lowered my credit limit. I called and asked them what they were doing that for when I'd never, EVER missed or had a late payment to THEM, and they said because of what happened on the OTHER card. I also then told them to stick their cards where the sun don't shine and close the accounts. I now have NO credit card, and feel absolutely LIBERATED. I don't think there's a bigger group of SHYSTERS on earth than those filthy credit card companies.

What happened to you happens to people all the time. And in some cases, the minimum payment then goes up so much that people can't ever pay off the card. The way an average credit card is constructed, if you make minimum payments only, I think it takes approximately 30 years to pay off the debt... all at usurous interest rates.

I'm all for laws that keep companies from engaging in those types of predatory practices.

FWIW, I have one credit card which I use for things like online purchases (b/c I won't use a debit card for that) and hotel reservations and the like. But it's paid off every month. If it can't be paid off by the time the bill comes due, I don't buy it.

And the ONLY reason I got the card was because I needed a co-signatory for my car lease because I didn't have enough credit since my co-op is paid off too and when I bought it, I took a passbook loan and not a bank loan.

I don't like debt. Scares the bejezus out of me. I'm silly that way.

But I also don't like companies taking advantage of people because they have good lobbyists.

 

[jillian]

Since you now closed all of your accounts your credit score took a dive. Now your insurance rates will also be hiked.

oh yeah... that too... forgot about that one. Cost me a pretty penny there for a while.

 

[Dis]

But there is also consumer protection laws with respect to pricing. They stemmed from somewhere, for a reason.

Would you have forced that store to give you that one bike at $14.99, or would you have admitted you knew it was obviously wrong, and pointed it out to the store, while paying what you KNEW was the correct price?

I wouldn't if it was only an obvious error. On the otherhand it is irritating that I go to a walmart to buy a certain brand of cheese and each time I get to the register it scans out at two dollars more than it is marked on the shelf. You'd think after a year of asking them to either change the price on the shelf or change the amount in the scan they would fix it. They don't though because it is supposed to be a WIC approved product. Instead they gouge the customers that are not watching the tallies on their bills.

Your point I agree with.. That particular *shelf tag* outlines that particular *product* in that particular *size* for X number of dollars. If that's pointed out, and STILL not cleaned up, then they're obligated to give you the price you're expecting to pay based on their display.

My point was this was one item in a sea of identical items that was unintentionally mis-marked, while the rest were clearly higher (there was no shelf tag).

Incidentally, it helps if you just pull the entire shelf tag off and take it to the register with you to prove your point... Then they're forced to print a new (corrected) one, because they don't stick well the second time around.