Did Jesus Know He was Starting a New Movement?

[Hawkins]

Pick a story, any story.

I asked you. You pick one.

The one about getting to an invible being through him.

"No one comes to the Father except through me" (Jn 14:6). That one?

Jesus is declaring something. What makes it a tale?

Do you have any idea how common Greek was back then? Or do you have any idea how common English is today. If you'd write something to reach the ends of the earth, what language will you choose?

What matters is the "account of eyewitness" instead of the "writings of eyewitness". All human history, to a certain extent, can be considered as ultimately from "accounts of eyewitnesses", however it's seldom the case that history are the writings of the eyewitnesses!

Like I said, humans don't know what human witnessing is!!!!!!!!!


Personally, my guess is Matthew may write in Hebrew but what matters is the Greek version of his testimony!

it matters how MATTHEW originally wrote it. He was literate
and could probably do both Hebrew and Greek
I would rather not guess. I wonder what word he used for
"church" As to history-----we are working from writings

No, almost no history is written by eyewitnesses. It's thus not important in the process of a legitimate human witnessing. Your reply here only confirms what I said that "humans don't know what human witnessing is"!!!!!

 

[irosie91]

"binding and loosening" means "authentication shift"-----
????? how is that in Hebrew?------in pirkei avot?

You are taking things out of context. In Jewish custom, it's the declaring of God's Law by the priests. The significance of the verses I quoted however are all about the formal declaration of such an authentication shift!

Leave it there for others to read, if you don't know how to read what I said!

you specifically said "binding and loosening" is "jewish" for
authentication shift. <<<< that one is news for me. I know
how to read English----when I learned a bit of Hebrew I began
to understand what the OT is all about. (and the NT) Lots of symbolism and connotation sorta specific to the language.
(both Hebrew and Aramaic)------I know no greek You may
be right ????? can you cite where "binding and loosening"
denotes "declaring of God's law by the priests" the priests?

 

[irosie91]

I asked you. You pick one.

The one about getting to an invible being through him.

"No one comes to the Father except through me" (Jn 14:6). That one?

Jesus is declaring something. What makes it a tale?

Do you have any idea how common Greek was back then? Or do you have any idea how common English is today. If you'd write something to reach the ends of the earth, what language will you choose?

What matters is the "account of eyewitness" instead of the "writings of eyewitness". All human history, to a certain extent, can be considered as ultimately from "accounts of eyewitnesses", however it's seldom the case that history are the writings of the eyewitnesses!

Like I said, humans don't know what human witnessing is!!!!!!!!!


Personally, my guess is Matthew may write in Hebrew but what matters is the Greek version of his testimony!

it matters how MATTHEW originally wrote it. He was literate
and could probably do both Hebrew and Greek
I would rather not guess. I wonder what word he used for
"church" As to history-----we are working from writings

No, almost no history is written by eyewitnesses. It's thus not important in the process of a legitimate human witnessing. Your reply here only confirms what I said that "humans don't know what human witnessing is"!!!!!

can you define "witnessing" as you are using the word?

 

[danielpalos]

According to some biblical historians, such as Bart Ehrman, most scholars believe Jesus did not know that he was launching a new movement, i.e., the church, because that movement started after his death. If that’s the case, did Jesus fail? What was the purpose of his ministry? What was the “good news”?


I say that Jesus did know what he was bringing to the world, and he quite explicitly says so. What do you say?

he was about social morals for free over capital morals for a market friendly price.

 

[Taz]

He went around telling tales to get a following, I think the name Jesus of Nazareth translates into English as Joel Osteen.

What tales?

Pick a story, any story.

I asked you. You pick one.

The one about getting to an invible being through him.

"No one comes to the Father except through me" (Jn 14:6). That one?

Jesus is declaring something. What makes it a tale?

It's bullshit. He made it up. So he's conning people.

 

[norwegen]

According to some biblical historians, such as Bart Ehrman, most scholars believe Jesus did not know that he was launching a new movement, i.e., the church, because that movement started after his death. If that’s the case, did Jesus fail? What was the purpose of his ministry? What was the “good news”?


I say that Jesus did know what he was bringing to the world, and he quite explicitly says so. What do you say?

he was about social morals for free over capital morals for a market friendly price.

He was about the church. That was his mission. It's what he died for.

 

[norwegen]

What tales?

Pick a story, any story.

I asked you. You pick one.

The one about getting to an invible being through him.

"No one comes to the Father except through me" (Jn 14:6). That one?

Jesus is declaring something. What makes it a tale?

It's bullshit. He made it up. So he's conning people.

What is the con, exactly?

 

[irosie91]

Pick a story, any story.

I asked you. You pick one.

The one about getting to an invible being through him.

"No one comes to the Father except through me" (Jn 14:6). That one?

Jesus is declaring something. What makes it a tale?

It's bullshit. He made it up. So he's conning people.

What is the con, exactly?

not Jesus-----the con is the NT

 

[norwegen]

I asked you. You pick one.

The one about getting to an invible being through him.

"No one comes to the Father except through me" (Jn 14:6). That one?

Jesus is declaring something. What makes it a tale?

It's bullshit. He made it up. So he's conning people.

What is the con, exactly?

not Jesus-----the con is the NT

Let me guess. It's a fourth-century Roman creation.

 

[irosie91]

The one about getting to an invible being through him.

"No one comes to the Father except through me" (Jn 14:6). That one?

Jesus is declaring something. What makes it a tale?

It's bullshit. He made it up. So he's conning people.

What is the con, exactly?

not Jesus-----the con is the NT

Let me guess. It's a fourth-century Roman creation.

you need not guess-----just read it. I am going to ASSUME
that you are a Christian-----ie GUESS. Where do you find the
the phrase "cast not your pearls before swine" and what does it
mean?

 

[irosie91]

According to some biblical historians, such as Bart Ehrman, most scholars believe Jesus did not know that he was launching a new movement, i.e., the church, because that movement started after his death. If that’s the case, did Jesus fail? What was the purpose of his ministry? What was the “good news”?


I say that Jesus did know what he was bringing to the world, and he quite explicitly says so. What do you say?

he was about social morals for free over capital morals for a market friendly price.

He was about the church. That was his mission. It's what he died for.

what word did Jesus use for "the church" ?

 

[norwegen]

"No one comes to the Father except through me" (Jn 14:6). That one?

Jesus is declaring something. What makes it a tale?

It's bullshit. He made it up. So he's conning people.

What is the con, exactly?

not Jesus-----the con is the NT

Let me guess. It's a fourth-century Roman creation.

you need not guess-----just read it. I am going to ASSUME
that you are a Christian-----ie GUESS. Where do you find the
the phrase "cast not your pearls before swine" and what does it
mean?

I find it in Matthew.

Jesus is very ethnocentric. It's a cultural thing, even today. Back then, if you weren't Jewish, you were a pig or a dog.

 

[norwegen]

According to some biblical historians, such as Bart Ehrman, most scholars believe Jesus did not know that he was launching a new movement, i.e., the church, because that movement started after his death. If that’s the case, did Jesus fail? What was the purpose of his ministry? What was the “good news”?


I say that Jesus did know what he was bringing to the world, and he quite explicitly says so. What do you say?

he was about social morals for free over capital morals for a market friendly price.

He was about the church. That was his mission. It's what he died for.

what word did Jesus use for "the church" ?

In English, church, of course. One verse signifying that has already been cited a number of times.

Much more often, though, Jesus referred to it as the kingdom.

 

[Meriweather]

I say that Jesus did know what he was bringing to the world, and he quite explicitly says so. What do you say?

Luke 12:49 comes to mind:

"I've come to set the earth on fire, and how I wish it were already ablaze!"

 

[norwegen]

I say that Jesus did know what he was bringing to the world, and he quite explicitly says so. What do you say?

Luke 12:49 comes to mind:

"I've come to set the earth on fire, and how I wish it were already ablaze!"

Indeed, this is the eschatology of the entire New Testament. Jesus would return in judgment. He baptized in fire in AD 70, when the temple burned and the Mosaic Age ended.

Paganism was still the same - no growth.

Christianity's opportunity to bloom arrived in this fire.

 

[irosie91]

According to some biblical historians, such as Bart Ehrman, most scholars believe Jesus did not know that he was launching a new movement, i.e., the church, because that movement started after his death. If that’s the case, did Jesus fail? What was the purpose of his ministry? What was the “good news”?


I say that Jesus did know what he was bringing to the world, and he quite explicitly says so. What do you say?

he was about social morals for free over capital morals for a market friendly price.

He was about the church. That was his mission. It's what he died for.

what word did Jesus use for "the church" ?

In English, church, of course. One verse signifying that has already been cited a number of times.

Much more often, though, Jesus referred to it as the kingdom.

Jesus did not know English-----it is likely that he did not know greek
either------as described in the NT, he was literate in both Hebrew
and Aramaic. WORDS are important in understanding------
just WAT A WRITING MEANS. Jesus referred to WHAT as
"the kingdom"? and what is the WORD he used?

 

[irosie91]

I say that Jesus did know what he was bringing to the world, and he quite explicitly says so. What do you say?

Luke 12:49 comes to mind:

"I've come to set the earth on fire, and how I wish it were already ablaze!"

Indeed, this is the eschatology of the entire New Testament. Jesus would return in judgment. He baptized in fire in AD 70, when the temple burned and the Mosaic Age ended.

Paganism was still the same - no growth.

Christianity's opportunity to bloom arrived in this fire.

you seem to like sophistry

 

[norwegen]

According to some biblical historians, such as Bart Ehrman, most scholars believe Jesus did not know that he was launching a new movement, i.e., the church, because that movement started after his death. If that’s the case, did Jesus fail? What was the purpose of his ministry? What was the “good news”?


I say that Jesus did know what he was bringing to the world, and he quite explicitly says so. What do you say?

he was about social morals for free over capital morals for a market friendly price.

He was about the church. That was his mission. It's what he died for.

what word did Jesus use for "the church" ?

In English, church, of course. One verse signifying that has already been cited a number of times.

Much more often, though, Jesus referred to it as the kingdom.

Jesus did not know English-----it is likely that he did not know greek
either------as described in the NT, he was literate in both Hebrew
and Aramaic. WORDS are important in understanding------
just WAT A WRITING MEANS. Jesus referred to WHAT as
"the kingdom"? and what is the WORD he used?

The church is the Kingdom. Are you lost?

He used the word kingdom (in Aramaic, of course). In Greek, which is the language of the Gospels, the word is basileía.

 

[norwegen]

I say that Jesus did know what he was bringing to the world, and he quite explicitly says so. What do you say?

Luke 12:49 comes to mind:

"I've come to set the earth on fire, and how I wish it were already ablaze!"

Indeed, this is the eschatology of the entire New Testament. Jesus would return in judgment. He baptized in fire in AD 70, when the temple burned and the Mosaic Age ended.

Paganism was still the same - no growth.

Christianity's opportunity to bloom arrived in this fire.

you seem to like sophistry

You seem to like to rebut sans any rebuttal.

 

[irosie91]

he was about social morals for free over capital morals for a market friendly price.

He was about the church. That was his mission. It's what he died for.

what word did Jesus use for "the church" ?

In English, church, of course. One verse signifying that has already been cited a number of times.

Much more often, though, Jesus referred to it as the kingdom.

Jesus did not know English-----it is likely that he did not know greek
either------as described in the NT, he was literate in both Hebrew
and Aramaic. WORDS are important in understanding------
just WAT A WRITING MEANS. Jesus referred to WHAT as
"the kingdom"? and what is the WORD he used?

The church is the Kingdom. Are you lost?

He used the word kingdom (in Aramaic, of course). In Greek, which is the language of the Gospels, the word is basileía.

so you don't know. You are guessing that Jesus claimed
he had founded a "kingdom" stated in Aramaic which is also
"church" In Hebrew it is mamlekhah-----sorta "that which is of
a king" ------at that time a country ruled by a king-----probably similar
in Aramaic. At that time Rome was ruled by a king-----it was a kingdom