DIE

[The Duke]

There are lot of opinions, on what it is supposed to be, technical sociological definitions, and political theories.

I won't get into whether they are right, or whether they are wrong.

I am more into Realpolitik, observing the actual outcomes of these stated policy objectives. If you study in-group/out-group relations, the state, can't really "force," different segments of society to accept each other, all it can do, is make laws equal. Which, since at least the late 1960's, they already have been.

Though it can try to indoctrinate, against the will of families and parents, in an attempt to create new epistemological realities, (as the USSR did for over eighty years.) Folks that study the science of in-group/out-group behavior, will note, that this is still, a losing battle. Nature is, and always will be, more powerful than nurture.

What these types of policies really boil down to in the end, IMO, are nothing more than large scale chaos, and vast social balkanization schemes, while there is really, a larger agenda to reorder how the economy, on an international level is worked, according to technocratic principles. It is really a distraction for most of the folks that aren't paying attention to a larger agenda, being foisted upon all parties, while they argue and fight among themselves, and while their common oppressor, destroys all of their previously cherished ancestral ways and means of living before.

Balkanization - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Protracted social conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Detachment (territory) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Realpolitik - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rhetorical device - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For the intellectuals that wheel out, "diversity, equity, and inclusion?" The end game, is complete social control over society, they care very little about civil rights or civil liberties, so, why should they care about, "diversity, equity, and inclusion," in the first place? It is nothing but a cheap distraction to get folks fighting, while the real agenda is enacted.

You won't find nations like China, or Russia, or India, or other more homogeneous nations, quibbling over such silly things. They have real problems to deal with, and solve.

Sounds like something out of a Ludlum novel.

 

[JoeB131]

You may be easily persuaded by Hollywood movies. That's fine.

I'm not.. society is. They heard Stallone say he was spit on when he got back and you believed that actually happened.

 

[Hollie]

I'm not.. society is. They heard Stallone say he was spit on when he got back and you believed that actually happened.

Actually, it was you who brought reference to the Rambo movie into the thread. I gave you a link to interview with a veteran.

If you forgot, you can find that earlier post.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, it was you who brought reference to the Rambo movie into the thread. I gave you a link to interview with a veteran.

I know, you totally missed the point about false memories and cultural influences. I get it. I tried to make it as simple for you as I could, but clearly, you aren't capable of thinking at that level.

 

[Hollie]

I know, you totally missed the point about false memories and cultural influences. I get it. I tried to make it as simple for you as I could, but clearly, you aren't capable of thinking at that level.

Remarkable how you know with 100% certainty while possessing 0% facts regarding the false memories of others. It's as though you struggle to think on a level that's barely child-like.

 

[JoeB131]

Remarkable how you know with 100% certainty while possessing 0% facts regarding the false memories of others.

Well, you see, that's the thing. If the things they remember actually happened, there's be a record of it in real time.

News stories
Police Reports
Film

There aren't. Because it never happened.

 

[Hollie]

Well, you see, that's the thing. If the things they remember actually happened, there's be a record of it in real time.

News stories
Police Reports
Film

There aren't. Because it never happened.

Actually, here's the thing. Because you insist that people's experiences didn't happen is hardly a fact that those events didn't happen.

This will conflict with your ''.... because I say so", theory of the world but you will have to learn to deal with a reality based environment.

 

[ActionJackson]

Diversity inclusion and equity. Explain to me what that means.

It means you should throw all common sense and decency out the window and join the "woke Borg."

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, here's the thing. Because you insist that people's experiences didn't happen is hardly a fact that those events didn't happen.

nor is it a fact that it did. So where's the documentary evidence?

That's right. There is none.

 

[Hollie]

nor is it a fact that it did. So where's the documentary evidence?

That's right. There is none.

You ignore the evidence that doesn't fit your agenda. You should do something about that.

 

[bripat9643]

They weren't there because it never happened. More often than not, the returning soldiers were the ones doing the protesting. They knew the Vietnam War was utter bullshit.

How was it "bullshit?"

 

[JoeB131]

You ignore the evidence that doesn't fit your agenda. You should do something about that.

You haven't presented any evidence. Some malcontent whining someone was mean to him 40 years ago isn't evidence.

Evidence is.

Photographic Documentation.
Contemporaneous Accounts

That's evidence.

How was it "bullshit?"

Because we were imposing a form of government on these people they didn't want. The people we supported were seen as French Collaborators, while Ho Chi Mihn was seen as a national hero because he fought against the French and the Japanese. And the soldiers who got sent over there realized that pretty quickly. So we bombed, defoliated, burned, raped and murdered our way through the country for eight years, knowing damned well the when we left, the Collaborators would be overthrown (which, of course, they were.)

Our leaders knew this, this is why the leaking of the Pentagon Papers was such a big deal. It's why you saw so many returning vets like John Kerry join anti-War movements after they returned.

(My biggest complaint with John Kerry was that he didn't embrace his previous stance, and Bush beat him over the head with it.)

What happened was that much like Germany after WWI, we had a "Stabbed in the Back" myth emerge. We would have won the war, if it weren't for those meddling kids. And the imaginary "Hippy Spitting on returning soldiers" because a part of that mythology.

 

[Hollie]

You haven't presented any evidence. Some malcontent whining someone was mean to him 40 years ago isn't evidence.

Evidence is.

Photographic Documentation.
Contemporaneous Accounts

That's evidence.



Because we were imposing a form of government on these people they didn't want. The people we supported were seen as French Collaborators, while Ho Chi Mihn was seen as a national hero because he fought against the French and the Japanese. And the soldiers who got sent over there realized that pretty quickly. So we bombed, defoliated, burned, raped and murdered our way through the country for eight years, knowing damned well the when we left, the Collaborators would be overthrown (which, of course, they were.)

Our leaders knew this, this is why the leaking of the Pentagon Papers was such a big deal. It's why you saw so many returning vets like John Kerry join anti-War movements after they returned.

(My biggest complaint with John Kerry was that he didn't embrace his previous stance, and Bush beat him over the head with it.)

What happened was that much like Germany after WWI, we had a "Stabbed in the Back" myth emerge. We would have won the war, if it weren't for those meddling kids. And the imaginary "Hippy Spitting on returning soldiers" because a part of that mythology.

You haven't refuted the evidence. There are many reports from credible witnesses. You, on the other hand, are agenda driven, thus not credible.

OPINION EXCHANGE | Disrespect for Vietnam vets is fact, not fiction

Spitting stories, while true, aren't the point. But denial of what we suffered dishonors us again.

www.startribune.com

 

[JoeB131]

You haven't refuted the evidence. There are many reports from credible witnesses. You, on the other hand, are agenda driven, thus not credible.

This is an article from 2012 that cites no sources.

Where is your article from 1971 that documents a spitting incident?

You don't have one because it never happened.

 

[Hollie]

This is an article from 2012 that cites no sources.

Where is your article from 1971 that documents a spitting incident?

You don't have one because it never happened.

The article cites sources.

Where is your refutation of those sources.

That's right. You have none.

 

[JoeB131]

The article cites sources.

Where is your refutation of those sources.

That's right. You have none.

It cites sources, but no links...

Where are your links to those stories.

Oh, that's right. They don't exist because it never happened.

 

[Hollie]

It cites sources, but no links...

Where are your links to those stories.

Oh, that's right. They don't exist because it never happened.

There are links cited by the author.

Oh, that's right. You have no refutation other than your usual, "...because I say no".

Where are your links refuting the claims of the vets?

That's right. You have none.

 

[bripat9643]

You haven't presented any evidence. Some malcontent whining someone was mean to him 40 years ago isn't evidence.

Evidence is.

Photographic Documentation.
Contemporaneous Accounts

That's evidence.



Because we were imposing a form of government on these people they didn't want. The people we supported were seen as French Collaborators, while Ho Chi Mihn was seen as a national hero because he fought against the French and the Japanese. And the soldiers who got sent over there realized that pretty quickly. So we bombed, defoliated, burned, raped and murdered our way through the country for eight years, knowing damned well the when we left, the Collaborators would be overthrown (which, of course, they were.)

Our leaders knew this, this is why the leaking of the Pentagon Papers was such a big deal. It's why you saw so many returning vets like John Kerry join anti-War movements after they returned.

(My biggest complaint with John Kerry was that he didn't embrace his previous stance, and Bush beat him over the head with it.)

What happened was that much like Germany after WWI, we had a "Stabbed in the Back" myth emerge. We would have won the war, if it weren't for those meddling kids. And the imaginary "Hippy Spitting on returning soldiers" because a part of that mythology.

Oh right, they wanted to be communists. That must be why they set out in rafts and small boats by the hundreds of thousands just to get away from the government they prefered. Only a fucking commie would swallow that logic.

Wha kind of dumbfuck are you?

 

[JoeB131]

There are links cited by the author.

No, there weren't. You obviously don't know what a link is.

Oh right, they wanted to be communists. That must be why they set out in rafts and small boats by the hundreds of thousands just to get away from the government they prefered. Only a fucking commie would swallow that logic.

Uh, guy, most of them DIDN'T flee. Vietnam has a population of MILLIONS. We are talking about 800,000 that fled between 1975 and 1995 (after which relations were normalized and if you wanted to immigrate, you could go to the embassy.

So maybe 1-2% of the population decided to flee by boat?

I should point out after our own Revolutionary war, 1/3rd of the population resettled in Canada.

 

[Hollie]

No, there weren't. You obviously don't know what a link is.



Uh, guy, most of them DIDN'T flee. Vietnam has a population of MILLIONS. We are talking about 800,000 that fled between 1975 and 1995 (after which relations were normalized and if you wanted to immigrate, you could go to the embassy.

So maybe 1-2% of the population decided to flee by boat?

I should point out after our own Revolutionary war, 1/3rd of the population resettled in Canada.

Yeah, there were links. Learn to read.