Do you agree that pre-born humans are NOT entitled to any rights or even the right to live?

[Blues Man]

it's not a child in the first trimester.

It's a human life.

It's a potential human

 

[Blues Man]

It doesn't take a catastrophic event for a spontaneous miscarriage.

that is a catastrophic event dumbass

No it's natural selection.

A spontaneous miscarriage indicates some sort of problem with the embryo which is why I say that a zygote is not a human but rather a potential human

Weeks zero to six have the highest probability of miscarriage in all women and that risk rises with age.

These are not catastrophic events

tell that to the mother that just lost her child,,,

it's not a child in the first trimester.

yes it is,,,as proven when the doctor tells her shes lost her child

I disagree.

And how do you know a Dr doesn't say, "You have had a miscarriage"?

 

[sparky]

It's a potential human

~S~

 

[Blues Man]

The just born are 100% dependent so it must be OK to kill them right?

Lol I'm going by science. Not by you guys emotions.
I meant things like breathing.
Even the bible states adam wasnt a man until he took his first breath

So what level of independence is needed for you to define a person?

And during the later periods of gestation the fetus, baby, whatever breathes amniotic fluid

Once again the world is not black and white and the Bible is not a scientific reference book.

At what point does the fetus become a baby?

There are other distinct stages of development from when the sperm and egg form a zygote so why not a distinction as to when a fetus become a baby?

IMO viability outside the womb becomes a factor and our current level of techno;ogy should be considered in that determination.

There is a vast difference between the developmental stages of very early pregnancy and later pregnancy so to say that there is no difference one minute before birth from 1 minute after the egg is fertilized is ridiculous

it becomes a life at the moment of conception,,,

I disagree with that. It becomes a potential life. The question is when is that potential realized?

There is no “potential life.” There IS a brand new human life. The preborn baby EXISTS.

I’ve always thought that this “potential” argument is not only weak, but one of the worst arguments on the proabort side. And I even thought that, on some level, back when I was on the other side of this debate. I’ve just always felt that it doesn’t make any sense, there is no “potential“ life, the life is already there! And as long as no one kills the baby (or unless there’s a miscarriage) the baby will definitely continue to grow until of course his head pops out of the womb at birth.

I should have said a potential human being.

There is a vast difference between a day one zygote and a day 270 baby

 

[Blues Man]

Not in my opinion.
Being a person implies many forms of independence which the unborn do not have.

A person is simply human being. (Even the dictionary will tell you that.)

It is an undeniable scientific fact that the pre-born baby is a human being, with a unique set of DNA from the start. An individual person who has never existed before and never will again.

So to add on all sorts of extra qualifications to deny the humanity of an innocent person is either ignorant or immoral, take your pick.

I would say that the DNA of an embryo is a potential unique individual.

But at when point during gestation that does potential become realized ?

They arent an individual.

Genetically a zygote is unique.

So it is an individual in the sense that the genetic make up is unique and will never be recreated again.

But that has never been my stance.

A fertilized egg is a potential unique individual so when is that potential realized?

One could argue that your potential has not yet been realized.

I'm sure some people would say that. That doesn't negate the validity of the question though does it?

 

[Blues Man]

It's a potential human

~S~

and??

 

[sparky]

and enlighten me



~S~

 

[Blues Man]

and enlighten me



~S~

Pictures with no context are meaningless and besides you picked them out so you should know what you meant

 

[sparky]

pix are worth a 1000 metaphors blues dude

~S~

 

[Blues Man]

pix are worth a 1000 metaphors blues dude

~S~

Not when they have nothing to do with the subject.

 

[JoeMoma]

A person is simply human being. (Even the dictionary will tell you that.)

It is an undeniable scientific fact that the pre-born baby is a human being, with a unique set of DNA from the start. An individual person who has never existed before and never will again.

So to add on all sorts of extra qualifications to deny the humanity of an innocent person is either ignorant or immoral, take your pick.

I would say that the DNA of an embryo is a potential unique individual.

But at when point during gestation that does potential become realized ?

They arent an individual.

Genetically a zygote is unique.

So it is an individual in the sense that the genetic make up is unique and will never be recreated again.

But that has never been my stance.

A fertilized egg is a potential unique individual so when is that potential realized?

One could argue that your potential has not yet been realized.

I'm sure some people would say that. That doesn't negate the validity of the question though does it?

True since -0 and +0 is the same number.

 

[Uncensored2008]

But that's the thing. One third of fertilized zygotes don't cling to the uterine wall and about 10% of pregnancies DO end in miscarriage. And about half of pregnancies end in abortion... And no one gets particularly upset about any of it the way they would if a baby or child died.

So Stalin, since 50% of men 80 years old will die before 90, that means that you can kill octogenarians at will, right? I mean using the same justifications...

 

[progressive hunter]

that is a catastrophic event dumbass

No it's natural selection.

A spontaneous miscarriage indicates some sort of problem with the embryo which is why I say that a zygote is not a human but rather a potential human

Weeks zero to six have the highest probability of miscarriage in all women and that risk rises with age.

These are not catastrophic events

tell that to the mother that just lost her child,,,

it's not a child in the first trimester.

yes it is,,,as proven when the doctor tells her shes lost her child

I disagree.

And how do you know a Dr doesn't say, "You have had a miscarriage"?

I highly doubt they say ,,"sorry you lost your zygote"

 

[progressive hunter]

Lol I'm going by science. Not by you guys emotions.
I meant things like breathing.
Even the bible states adam wasnt a man until he took his first breath

So what level of independence is needed for you to define a person?

And during the later periods of gestation the fetus, baby, whatever breathes amniotic fluid

Once again the world is not black and white and the Bible is not a scientific reference book.

At what point does the fetus become a baby?

There are other distinct stages of development from when the sperm and egg form a zygote so why not a distinction as to when a fetus become a baby?

IMO viability outside the womb becomes a factor and our current level of techno;ogy should be considered in that determination.

There is a vast difference between the developmental stages of very early pregnancy and later pregnancy so to say that there is no difference one minute before birth from 1 minute after the egg is fertilized is ridiculous

it becomes a life at the moment of conception,,,

I disagree with that. It becomes a potential life. The question is when is that potential realized?

There is no “potential life.” There IS a brand new human life. The preborn baby EXISTS.

I’ve always thought that this “potential” argument is not only weak, but one of the worst arguments on the proabort side. And I even thought that, on some level, back when I was on the other side of this debate. I’ve just always felt that it doesn’t make any sense, there is no “potential“ life, the life is already there! And as long as no one kills the baby (or unless there’s a miscarriage) the baby will definitely continue to grow until of course his head pops out of the womb at birth.

I should have said a potential human being.

There is a vast difference between a day one zygote and a day 270 baby

yeah its 269 days,,,

 

[Uncensored2008]

There is no “potential life.” There IS a brand new human life. The preborn baby EXISTS.

Define 'life'

Does it require a 'soul' , 'aura', or some sort of 'living energy' ...chakra....'cerebral activity?

If so, just when does this occur?

Separate this notion from the mere perfusion of tissue, which can be done in a medical lab, and we'll all have no choice but to acknowledge your notion

~S~

You of the left are anti-science. You have your weird religions, Gaia. Moloch, Baal..

Using medical science, something we educated people call "biology," can you say biology? Didn't think you could. Regardless, the presence of life is discernible (look it up) cellular activity. Perhaps what the priests of your primitive and violent infant sacrifice cult really mean is "human life". Based on medical science human life is defined by the presence of heart or brain activity. In a baby, this occurs about 5 weeks gestation. Science also discovered something we call DNA. DNA is the blueprint for life. Using DNA we can see that the baby is a unique and distinct life from the mother carrying the baby. But you ghouls are anti-science, so these are facts you are not aware of.

 

[JoeB131]

But that's the thing. One third of fertilized zygotes don't cling to the uterine wall and about 10% of pregnancies DO end in miscarriage. And about half of pregnancies end in abortion... And no one gets particularly upset about any of it the way they would if a baby or child died.

So Stalin, since 50% of men 80 years old will die before 90, that means that you can kill octogenarians at will, right? I mean using the same justifications...

Are they attaching themselves to the uterine wall of an unwilling woman?

 

[Uncensored2008]

But that's the thing. One third of fertilized zygotes don't cling to the uterine wall and about 10% of pregnancies DO end in miscarriage. And about half of pregnancies end in abortion... And no one gets particularly upset about any of it the way they would if a baby or child died.

So Stalin, since 50% of men 80 years old will die before 90, that means that you can kill octogenarians at will, right? I mean using the same justifications...

Are they attaching themselves to the uterine wall of an unwilling woman?

View attachment 291255

Outside of rape, no woman is unwilling to have the baby put in her, try again you ignorant sot.

 

[Blues Man]

I would say that the DNA of an embryo is a potential unique individual.

But at when point during gestation that does potential become realized ?

They arent an individual.

Genetically a zygote is unique.

So it is an individual in the sense that the genetic make up is unique and will never be recreated again.

But that has never been my stance.

A fertilized egg is a potential unique individual so when is that potential realized?

One could argue that your potential has not yet been realized.

I'm sure some people would say that. That doesn't negate the validity of the question though does it?

True since -0 and +0 is the same number.

Actually zero is neither positive nor negative it is just zero

 

[Blues Man]

So what level of independence is needed for you to define a person?

And during the later periods of gestation the fetus, baby, whatever breathes amniotic fluid

Once again the world is not black and white and the Bible is not a scientific reference book.

At what point does the fetus become a baby?

There are other distinct stages of development from when the sperm and egg form a zygote so why not a distinction as to when a fetus become a baby?

IMO viability outside the womb becomes a factor and our current level of techno;ogy should be considered in that determination.

There is a vast difference between the developmental stages of very early pregnancy and later pregnancy so to say that there is no difference one minute before birth from 1 minute after the egg is fertilized is ridiculous

it becomes a life at the moment of conception,,,

I disagree with that. It becomes a potential life. The question is when is that potential realized?

There is no “potential life.” There IS a brand new human life. The preborn baby EXISTS.

I’ve always thought that this “potential” argument is not only weak, but one of the worst arguments on the proabort side. And I even thought that, on some level, back when I was on the other side of this debate. I’ve just always felt that it doesn’t make any sense, there is no “potential“ life, the life is already there! And as long as no one kills the baby (or unless there’s a miscarriage) the baby will definitely continue to grow until of course his head pops out of the womb at birth.

I should have said a potential human being.

There is a vast difference between a day one zygote and a day 270 baby

yeah its 269 days,,,

No there is a vast biological and physiological difference between the 2

They are not equal

 

[Blues Man]

But that's the thing. One third of fertilized zygotes don't cling to the uterine wall and about 10% of pregnancies DO end in miscarriage. And about half of pregnancies end in abortion... And no one gets particularly upset about any of it the way they would if a baby or child died.

So Stalin, since 50% of men 80 years old will die before 90, that means that you can kill octogenarians at will, right? I mean using the same justifications...

Are they attaching themselves to the uterine wall of an unwilling woman?

View attachment 291255

Outside of rape, no woman is unwilling to have the baby put in her, try again you ignorant sot.

So is it your contention that every woman who has sex is doing it to have kids?

What if her birth control measure failed was she willing to get pregnant then?