Do You Believe The War On Drugs Should Be Terminated?

[Slade3200]

Becoming a drug fiend and getting in welfare is stealing from your fellow citizens.

This is one of the dumber statements on this thread

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Becoming a drug fiend and getting in welfare is stealing from your fellow citizens.

This is one of the dumber statements on this thread

Other than an insult, you don't have any other response. That means I'm in point.

 

[Slade3200]

Becoming a drug fiend and getting in welfare is stealing from your fellow citizens.

This is one of the dumber statements on this thread

Other than an insult, you don't have any other response. That means I'm in point.

I've been posting opinion, facts, ideas, articles, and links all over this board... I don't want to waste my time repeating myself. You are way off point and if you want to engage then go back and read what i've posted and reply if you disagree.

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Becoming a drug fiend and getting in welfare is stealing from your fellow citizens.

This is one of the dumber statements on this thread

Other than an insult, you don't have any other response. That means I'm in point.

I've been posting opinion, facts, ideas, articles, and links all over this board... I don't want to waste my time repeating myself. You are way off point and if you want to engage then go back and read what i've posted and reply if you disagree.

You can't dispiute me, so you resort to insults. It's plain that you know you're wrong

 

[Slade3200]

Becoming a drug fiend and getting in welfare is stealing from your fellow citizens.

This is one of the dumber statements on this thread

Other than an insult, you don't have any other response. That means I'm in point.

I've been posting opinion, facts, ideas, articles, and links all over this board... I don't want to waste my time repeating myself. You are way off point and if you want to engage then go back and read what i've posted and reply if you disagree.

You can't dispiute me, so you resort to insults. It's plain that you know you're wrong

Post #93... Disputes you... It owns you... It's just the start...

 

[MikeK]

If not, why not?

If you believe there is a more intelligent and potentially effective way to deal with the abuse of recreational drugs, tell us what you have in mind.

Do you believe some recreational drugs can be used without risk of seriously harmful effects? If so, which ones?

Yes AND no.

Yes, the war that uses the police, the law, and punishment as weapons should be stopped, but the war that uses warnings, statistics, outreach programs, and public service spots on TV and radio to fight against drug abuse should remain.

I definitely agree. And if you will read back you'll find a message by me in which I describe a technique which is used by many police officers to condition their own kids on the danger of drug abuse. I used the same technique with my three girls and they brought it up whenever the topic of drugs arose.

But that is just one approach. There are many more things which can be done to discourage drug abuse. But that's Round Two. Round One will be getting rid of the counterproductive War On Drugs that Ronald Reagan has burdened us with. That won't be easy because the vast majority of Americans have been effectively brainwashed by government (NIDA) propagandists -- whose job it is to keep us misinformed.

Again, you are quite correct in your recommendation.

 

[PredFan]

If not, why not?

If you believe there is a more intelligent and potentially effective way to deal with the abuse of recreational drugs, tell us what you have in mind.

Do you believe some recreational drugs can be used without risk of seriously harmful effects? If so, which ones?

Yes AND no.

Yes, the war that uses the police, the law, and punishment as weapons should be stopped, but the war that uses warnings, statistics, outreach programs, and public service spots on TV and radio to fight against drug abuse should remain.

I definitely agree. And if you will read back you'll find a message by me in which I describe a technique which is used by many police officers to condition their own kids on the danger of drug abuse. I used the same technique with my three girls and they brought it up whenever the topic of drugs arose.

But that is just one approach. There are many more things which can be done to discourage drug abuse. But that's Round Two. Round One will be getting rid of the counterproductive War On Drugs that Ronald Reagan has burdened us with. That won't be easy because the vast majority of Americans have been effectively brainwashed by government (NIDA) propagandists -- whose job it is to keep us misinformed.

Again, you are quite correct in your recommendation.

Too bad you are in such a rush to blame Reagan, it ruins an otherwise thoughtful post.

 

[Slyhunter]

Not even close to the same thing

Seatbelts is a small fine
DUI is a threat to other drivers and passengers

Drugs are a victimless crime

Tax evasion is a victimless crime. Do you want to abolish those laws too?

Fellow citizens are the victims.

No they're not! That's stupid!

Stealing from the government is stealing from your fellow citizens who are tax payers. Thus victim.

Becoming a drug fiend and getting in welfare is stealing from your fellow citizens.

becoming a drug fiend is not stealing from fellow citizens.
getting welfare on the other hand is a separate situation.
Two totally separate issues. Punish them for the one and ignore the other, or treat as a health issue.

 

[Disir]

First up: crime.

Lately legalization advocates have been cheering numbers that show a decline in crime. There are literally hundreds of articles that have been written with this narrative. But an honest look at the statistics shows an increase — not decrease — in Denver crime rates.

Crime is tracked through two reporting mechanisms: the National Incident Based Reporting System (NIBRS), which examines about 35 types of crime, and the FBI Uniform Crime Reports (UCR). The FBI UCR only captures about 50 percent of all crimes in Denver, so the NIBRS is generally regarded as more credible. The Denver Police Department (DPD) uses NIBRS categories to examine an array of crime statistics, since it is the more detailed and comprehensive source of numbers.

The Denver Police statistics show that summing across all crime types — about 35 in all — the crime rate is up almost 7 percent compared with the same period last year. Interestingly, crimes such as public drunkenness are up 237 percent, and drug violations are up 20 percent.

So why are advocates claiming a crime drop? Easy: They blended part of the FBI data with part of the DPD/NIBRS data to cook up numbers they wished to see. When one picks the Part I data from UCR and uses DPD/NIBRS property-crime numbers only while studiously avoiding the DPD/NIBRS data on all other crimes, one can indeed manufacture the appearance of a decline. As one can see here, even when using the FBI UCR numbers — in their entirety — crime has risen.

A report commissioned by the National Association of Drug Court Professionals puts it nicely:

When a closer look at the data is undertaken, a different picture — something other than “crime is down” — appears to emerge. ...

[L]egalization proponents should not infer causality regarding the downward trend observable when isolating just the UCR’s Part I crime index.

When I asked the president of the Colorado Drug Investigators Association, Ernie Martinez, about these statistics, he urged me to look at the crimes that have been happening in connection to marijuana — even after legalization:
Crime Is Up in Colorado: What That Tells Us About Pot Legalization and, Perhaps More Importantly, Lazy Reporting

Public drunkenness and drug violations are victimless crimes. Why spend money prosecuting them

Much of the crime related to drugs is a result of the fact that we have made them highly illegal. It creates a market that only criminals can fill. 2.3 million in our prisons, most because of our obsession in stopping drugs

Are you alleging 2.3 million are in prison on drug charges?

Do you understand what the term "most" means?

Again. Are you alleging 2.3 million are in prison on drug charges?

You seem to repeat this as if there is some validity to it. There isn't. I have shown you those stats in the past. But........you don't give a shit.

Again, you have no concept of what "most" means

Hint: It does not mean all

This is you backtracking which is easy to do when you don't give a shit.

 

[Disir]

That's rich... Read our convo again. I make points and you say NO that doesn't work. As stimulating as that is and as original as your "go educate yourself" insult is, I've made valid points I don't really care to explain myself further to those with closed minds. You should take your own advise if you actually want to engage in a substantive conversation

And that's three. Let's recap. My initial post (#8) makes two points

The Harm Reduction Method. You will never see that here fully implemented. If there is one thing that is true, this country will operate half-assed and then bitch cry when they don't see the same results. People talk about treatment but they don't delve into it--as if there is some unified plan. The only unified plan is to do the least that can be done.

I'm all for decriminalizing smaller amounts but I am absolutely for nailing larger amounts. I am not ok with legalization.

In post #13 you respond with

Legalization not only funds education and rehabilitation but it also adds regulation to the quality of product and dramatically hinders the underground/black market.

Do you really think just throwing poor addicts in jail is more effective?

It is very clear that (1)you did not read my post at all because you wanted to hear yourself talk and wanted to make a sale, (2) you are a dick or (3) you are low functioning. I addressed treatment and I addressed decriminalization (your poor addicts in jail) in my first post.
I ignore you because that's a whole lotta nonsense you got going on. I respond to Mike.
You pick it up again in post # 48.

I agree that most government programs leave much to be desired and never seem to fire on all cylinders, however, even a half assed education and rehab program being substantially funded by the tax revenue made from the operation of drug businesses and sales, would be a vast improvement over our current situation. Not to mention the positive effects from clearing jails and defunding criminal organizations... I see a tremendous amount of Pro's and very little Con's.

Let me help you out:
Start here:
Inside Colorado’s flourishing, segregated black market for pot

Pot Delivery Services Thriving In Colorado’s Black Market
Special report, 'Clearing the Haze:' Black market is thriving in Colorado

Start here for Harm Reduction

What is harm reduction? | Harm Reduction International

I can't debate your feelings. Have a great day!

Show a negative impact on our society that warrants millions in prison

I'm not interested in how you feel. Get the fuck off your ass if you have something to demonstrate.

Ok, now we are talking! Glad you did some homework and thank you for the links. Interesting articles but weak support in regard to your points in this discussion. Your articles address some black market operations that are happening in Colorado. This is inevitable as there are always people that try to game the system but you can't deny that the legal enterprise is dramatically cutting into the undergrounds market share, and they will eventually be whittled down as legit businesses flourish. Despite some black market dealers getting out of paying taxes you can not deny these statistics:
- MJ possession arrests are down 84% and MJ dealing arrest are down 90% since 2010, saving the state millions in adjudication costs
- Violent crime went down by 2.2% ; Burglary down 9.5% ; Property crime decreased by 8.9%
- Tax revenue was over $40 million from Jan 2014 - Oct 2014 which funded adding healthcare professionals to schools and other grants.
- $8 million of tax revenue has gone towards youth prevention and community bases programs.
- Colorado has the fastest growing economy in the U.S. and unemployment is at a 6 year low.

Are you starting to get the picture?? If this was adopted at a national level we would put the smugglers out of business as the majority of dealers would much rather have a legit business than risk getting arrested. We would save Billions on crime enforcement, prosecution, and jailing... And best of all we would have Billions in tax revenue to put towards bettering our schools and communities. The positives far outweigh the negatives.

Here's a link incase you question the validity of my data.
https://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/de...juana_Legalization_One_Year_Status_Report.pdf

First up: crime.

Lately legalization advocates have been cheering numbers that show a decline in crime. There are literally hundreds of articles that have been written with this narrative. But an honest look at the statistics shows an increase — not decrease — in Denver crime rates.

Crime is tracked through two reporting mechanisms: the National Incident Based Reporting System (NIBRS), which examines about 35 types of crime, and the FBI Uniform Crime Reports (UCR). The FBI UCR only captures about 50 percent of all crimes in Denver, so the NIBRS is generally regarded as more credible. The Denver Police Department (DPD) uses NIBRS categories to examine an array of crime statistics, since it is the more detailed and comprehensive source of numbers.

The Denver Police statistics show that summing across all crime types — about 35 in all — the crime rate is up almost 7 percent compared with the same period last year. Interestingly, crimes such as public drunkenness are up 237 percent, and drug violations are up 20 percent.

So why are advocates claiming a crime drop? Easy: They blended part of the FBI data with part of the DPD/NIBRS data to cook up numbers they wished to see. When one picks the Part I data from UCR and uses DPD/NIBRS property-crime numbers only while studiously avoiding the DPD/NIBRS data on all other crimes, one can indeed manufacture the appearance of a decline. As one can see here, even when using the FBI UCR numbers — in their entirety — crime has risen.

A report commissioned by the National Association of Drug Court Professionals puts it nicely:

When a closer look at the data is undertaken, a different picture — something other than “crime is down” — appears to emerge. ...

[L]egalization proponents should not infer causality regarding the downward trend observable when isolating just the UCR’s Part I crime index.

When I asked the president of the Colorado Drug Investigators Association, Ernie Martinez, about these statistics, he urged me to look at the crimes that have been happening in connection to marijuana — even after legalization:
Crime Is Up in Colorado: What That Tells Us About Pot Legalization and, Perhaps More Importantly, Lazy Reporting

It is easy to cherry pick data to present either argument... Part of the problem with todays media. You site a Huffington post article that failed to site it's sources vs my article from the Drug Policy Org. which sited over a dozen reliable sources. But lets just use common sense. Statistics aside and objectively speaking...

I'd expect there to be a spike in use and small crime immediately after legalization as you get the first wave of celebratory passing of the peace pipe. I think this spike mellows out over time. Because of legalization of course it is easy to show dramatic decreases in pot related crime stats, that isn't the point, the point is how much money is being SAVED in enforcement and processing of these arrests. If you really think the black market is thriving then you must be smoking. For that to be true there would need to be such an increase in usage that covers sales from all the new legal businesses plus an increase in the black market which you claim is happening. Use your brain, the legal market is dramatically cutting into the black market. The tax revenue and economic effects are undeniable. You say that it is a non factor because it isn't as stable as property taxes?? Come on, you can do better than that... Income is income and if used right it can make great impacts on our communities... This is the key. Now there is revenue to put towards programs that help future generations to learn the harms of drugs and gain support for addicts that are abusing. I'm not advocating drug use, i'm proposing a smarter way to deal with the problem that helps our economy and has an end goal of decreasing use and abuse.

If you're not convinced then just compare to the alternative... Millions/Billions in new revenue and less enforcement/jail costs plus a better economy plus more jobs vs. the status quo which has given us an ineffective and expensive war that has funded smugglers and loses Billions in enforcement.

Links within texts are beautiful. They did cite the source.

http://drthurstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Crime-Stats-Thurstone.pdf

The alternative is decriminalization and the harm reduction method. I had you pegged from the get go. Another white boy that wants to make dealing respectful.

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

Tax evasion is a victimless crime. Do you want to abolish those laws too?

Fellow citizens are the victims.

No they're not! That's stupid!

Stealing from the government is stealing from your fellow citizens who are tax payers. Thus victim.

Becoming a drug fiend and getting in welfare is stealing from your fellow citizens.

becoming a drug fiend is not stealing from fellow citizens.
getting welfare on the other hand is a separate situation.
Two totally separate issues. Punish them for the one and ignore the other, or treat as a health issue.

Government support for drug addiction is absolutely stealing from fellow citizens. Tax evasion, is not.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

So what ? you want a medal or something....Oh wow what an effing hero ..

No medals. No hugs. Nothing. I just point that out as proof that people CAN both survive and succeed in life without alcohol, tobacco, or other drugs. Which proves there's no need for this shit in society.

It proves you are a dishonest person and a "maroon"

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

I find it ironic that alcoholic and steroid injecting cops are trying to stop me from smoking weed....they have no chance of stopping me....zero chance ...LOL

 

[WildBillKelsoe]

So what ? you want a medal or something....Oh wow what an effing hero ..

No medals. No hugs. Nothing. I just point that out as proof that people CAN both survive and succeed in life without alcohol, tobacco, or other drugs. Which proves there's no need for this shit in society.

It proves you are a dishonest person and a "maroon"

More insults. It speaks volumes.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

So what ? you want a medal or something....Oh wow what an effing hero ..

No medals. No hugs. Nothing. I just point that out as proof that people CAN both survive and succeed in life without alcohol, tobacco, or other drugs. Which proves there's no need for this shit in society.

It proves you are a dishonest person and a "maroon"

More insults. It speaks volumes.

More piteous whining...I have been hassled by cops for decades over weed and I do not whine about it ...as far as I am concerned anyone who want me in prison for pot can get fucked ...

 

[Slade3200]

That's rich... Read our convo again. I make points and you say NO that doesn't work. As stimulating as that is and as original as your "go educate yourself" insult is, I've made valid points I don't really care to explain myself further to those with closed minds. You should take your own advise if you actually want to engage in a substantive conversation

And that's three. Let's recap. My initial post (#8) makes two points

The Harm Reduction Method. You will never see that here fully implemented. If there is one thing that is true, this country will operate half-assed and then bitch cry when they don't see the same results. People talk about treatment but they don't delve into it--as if there is some unified plan. The only unified plan is to do the least that can be done.

I'm all for decriminalizing smaller amounts but I am absolutely for nailing larger amounts. I am not ok with legalization.

In post #13 you respond with

Legalization not only funds education and rehabilitation but it also adds regulation to the quality of product and dramatically hinders the underground/black market.

Do you really think just throwing poor addicts in jail is more effective?

It is very clear that (1)you did not read my post at all because you wanted to hear yourself talk and wanted to make a sale, (2) you are a dick or (3) you are low functioning. I addressed treatment and I addressed decriminalization (your poor addicts in jail) in my first post.
I ignore you because that's a whole lotta nonsense you got going on. I respond to Mike.
You pick it up again in post # 48.

I agree that most government programs leave much to be desired and never seem to fire on all cylinders, however, even a half assed education and rehab program being substantially funded by the tax revenue made from the operation of drug businesses and sales, would be a vast improvement over our current situation. Not to mention the positive effects from clearing jails and defunding criminal organizations... I see a tremendous amount of Pro's and very little Con's.

Let me help you out:
Start here:
Inside Colorado’s flourishing, segregated black market for pot

Pot Delivery Services Thriving In Colorado’s Black Market
Special report, 'Clearing the Haze:' Black market is thriving in Colorado

Start here for Harm Reduction

What is harm reduction? | Harm Reduction International

Show a negative impact on our society that warrants millions in prison

I'm not interested in how you feel. Get the fuck off your ass if you have something to demonstrate.

Ok, now we are talking! Glad you did some homework and thank you for the links. Interesting articles but weak support in regard to your points in this discussion. Your articles address some black market operations that are happening in Colorado. This is inevitable as there are always people that try to game the system but you can't deny that the legal enterprise is dramatically cutting into the undergrounds market share, and they will eventually be whittled down as legit businesses flourish. Despite some black market dealers getting out of paying taxes you can not deny these statistics:
- MJ possession arrests are down 84% and MJ dealing arrest are down 90% since 2010, saving the state millions in adjudication costs
- Violent crime went down by 2.2% ; Burglary down 9.5% ; Property crime decreased by 8.9%
- Tax revenue was over $40 million from Jan 2014 - Oct 2014 which funded adding healthcare professionals to schools and other grants.
- $8 million of tax revenue has gone towards youth prevention and community bases programs.
- Colorado has the fastest growing economy in the U.S. and unemployment is at a 6 year low.

Are you starting to get the picture?? If this was adopted at a national level we would put the smugglers out of business as the majority of dealers would much rather have a legit business than risk getting arrested. We would save Billions on crime enforcement, prosecution, and jailing... And best of all we would have Billions in tax revenue to put towards bettering our schools and communities. The positives far outweigh the negatives.

Here's a link incase you question the validity of my data.
https://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/de...juana_Legalization_One_Year_Status_Report.pdf

First up: crime.

Lately legalization advocates have been cheering numbers that show a decline in crime. There are literally hundreds of articles that have been written with this narrative. But an honest look at the statistics shows an increase — not decrease — in Denver crime rates.

Crime is tracked through two reporting mechanisms: the National Incident Based Reporting System (NIBRS), which examines about 35 types of crime, and the FBI Uniform Crime Reports (UCR). The FBI UCR only captures about 50 percent of all crimes in Denver, so the NIBRS is generally regarded as more credible. The Denver Police Department (DPD) uses NIBRS categories to examine an array of crime statistics, since it is the more detailed and comprehensive source of numbers.

The Denver Police statistics show that summing across all crime types — about 35 in all — the crime rate is up almost 7 percent compared with the same period last year. Interestingly, crimes such as public drunkenness are up 237 percent, and drug violations are up 20 percent.

So why are advocates claiming a crime drop? Easy: They blended part of the FBI data with part of the DPD/NIBRS data to cook up numbers they wished to see. When one picks the Part I data from UCR and uses DPD/NIBRS property-crime numbers only while studiously avoiding the DPD/NIBRS data on all other crimes, one can indeed manufacture the appearance of a decline. As one can see here, even when using the FBI UCR numbers — in their entirety — crime has risen.

A report commissioned by the National Association of Drug Court Professionals puts it nicely:

When a closer look at the data is undertaken, a different picture — something other than “crime is down” — appears to emerge. ...

[L]egalization proponents should not infer causality regarding the downward trend observable when isolating just the UCR’s Part I crime index.

When I asked the president of the Colorado Drug Investigators Association, Ernie Martinez, about these statistics, he urged me to look at the crimes that have been happening in connection to marijuana — even after legalization:
Crime Is Up in Colorado: What That Tells Us About Pot Legalization and, Perhaps More Importantly, Lazy Reporting

It is easy to cherry pick data to present either argument... Part of the problem with todays media. You site a Huffington post article that failed to site it's sources vs my article from the Drug Policy Org. which sited over a dozen reliable sources. But lets just use common sense. Statistics aside and objectively speaking...

I'd expect there to be a spike in use and small crime immediately after legalization as you get the first wave of celebratory passing of the peace pipe. I think this spike mellows out over time. Because of legalization of course it is easy to show dramatic decreases in pot related crime stats, that isn't the point, the point is how much money is being SAVED in enforcement and processing of these arrests. If you really think the black market is thriving then you must be smoking. For that to be true there would need to be such an increase in usage that covers sales from all the new legal businesses plus an increase in the black market which you claim is happening. Use your brain, the legal market is dramatically cutting into the black market. The tax revenue and economic effects are undeniable. You say that it is a non factor because it isn't as stable as property taxes?? Come on, you can do better than that... Income is income and if used right it can make great impacts on our communities... This is the key. Now there is revenue to put towards programs that help future generations to learn the harms of drugs and gain support for addicts that are abusing. I'm not advocating drug use, i'm proposing a smarter way to deal with the problem that helps our economy and has an end goal of decreasing use and abuse.

If you're not convinced then just compare to the alternative... Millions/Billions in new revenue and less enforcement/jail costs plus a better economy plus more jobs vs. the status quo which has given us an ineffective and expensive war that has funded smugglers and loses Billions in enforcement.

Links within texts are beautiful. They did cite the source.

http://drthurstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Crime-Stats-Thurstone.pdf

The alternative is decriminalization and the harm reduction method. I had you pegged from the get go. Another white boy that wants to make dealing respectful.

You had shit pegged, i'm not trying to promote drug use or dealing. MIKEK the OP has made some very well articulated points along the same lines as mine. He does not strike me as a promoter of drug use either, but we both understand that all the time and money that we spend fighting illegal drugs is a waste. The benefits and potential of a highly regulated and taxed industry can do so much to help education, healthcare, community programs and grow jobs which can have a real positive impact in our society.

You sight some articles that show that crime stats are the same, black market operations flourishing, and harm reduction doesn't work. For every one of your articles there are a dozen to the contrary... There is no point getting in a "link" war. Use your common sense. If you have none then keep your old school conservative point of view and keep bitching as you see our country progress towards the ideas that we are sharing.

You have failed to make make clear what your stance is and why... Is your stance that we should keep the status quo? Increase funding for stricter enforcement of drug use and dealing? How would President Disir solve the drug problem?

 

[Slade3200]

Becoming a drug fiend and getting in welfare is stealing from your fellow citizens.

This is one of the dumber statements on this thread

Other than an insult, you don't have any other response. That means I'm in point.

I love how you respond to a dumb statement diss with an even dumber statement... You get two emoticons

 

[Disir]

And that's three. Let's recap. My initial post (#8) makes two points

In post #13 you respond with
It is very clear that (1)you did not read my post at all because you wanted to hear yourself talk and wanted to make a sale, (2) you are a dick or (3) you are low functioning. I addressed treatment and I addressed decriminalization (your poor addicts in jail) in my first post.
I ignore you because that's a whole lotta nonsense you got going on. I respond to Mike.
You pick it up again in post # 48.
Let me help you out:
Start here:
Inside Colorado’s flourishing, segregated black market for pot

Pot Delivery Services Thriving In Colorado’s Black Market
Special report, 'Clearing the Haze:' Black market is thriving in Colorado

Start here for Harm Reduction

What is harm reduction? | Harm Reduction International
I'm not interested in how you feel. Get the fuck off your ass if you have something to demonstrate.

Ok, now we are talking! Glad you did some homework and thank you for the links. Interesting articles but weak support in regard to your points in this discussion. Your articles address some black market operations that are happening in Colorado. This is inevitable as there are always people that try to game the system but you can't deny that the legal enterprise is dramatically cutting into the undergrounds market share, and they will eventually be whittled down as legit businesses flourish. Despite some black market dealers getting out of paying taxes you can not deny these statistics:
- MJ possession arrests are down 84% and MJ dealing arrest are down 90% since 2010, saving the state millions in adjudication costs
- Violent crime went down by 2.2% ; Burglary down 9.5% ; Property crime decreased by 8.9%
- Tax revenue was over $40 million from Jan 2014 - Oct 2014 which funded adding healthcare professionals to schools and other grants.
- $8 million of tax revenue has gone towards youth prevention and community bases programs.
- Colorado has the fastest growing economy in the U.S. and unemployment is at a 6 year low.

Are you starting to get the picture?? If this was adopted at a national level we would put the smugglers out of business as the majority of dealers would much rather have a legit business than risk getting arrested. We would save Billions on crime enforcement, prosecution, and jailing... And best of all we would have Billions in tax revenue to put towards bettering our schools and communities. The positives far outweigh the negatives.

Here's a link incase you question the validity of my data.
https://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/de...juana_Legalization_One_Year_Status_Report.pdf

First up: crime.

Lately legalization advocates have been cheering numbers that show a decline in crime. There are literally hundreds of articles that have been written with this narrative. But an honest look at the statistics shows an increase — not decrease — in Denver crime rates.

Crime is tracked through two reporting mechanisms: the National Incident Based Reporting System (NIBRS), which examines about 35 types of crime, and the FBI Uniform Crime Reports (UCR). The FBI UCR only captures about 50 percent of all crimes in Denver, so the NIBRS is generally regarded as more credible. The Denver Police Department (DPD) uses NIBRS categories to examine an array of crime statistics, since it is the more detailed and comprehensive source of numbers.

The Denver Police statistics show that summing across all crime types — about 35 in all — the crime rate is up almost 7 percent compared with the same period last year. Interestingly, crimes such as public drunkenness are up 237 percent, and drug violations are up 20 percent.

So why are advocates claiming a crime drop? Easy: They blended part of the FBI data with part of the DPD/NIBRS data to cook up numbers they wished to see. When one picks the Part I data from UCR and uses DPD/NIBRS property-crime numbers only while studiously avoiding the DPD/NIBRS data on all other crimes, one can indeed manufacture the appearance of a decline. As one can see here, even when using the FBI UCR numbers — in their entirety — crime has risen.

A report commissioned by the National Association of Drug Court Professionals puts it nicely:

When a closer look at the data is undertaken, a different picture — something other than “crime is down” — appears to emerge. ...

[L]egalization proponents should not infer causality regarding the downward trend observable when isolating just the UCR’s Part I crime index.

When I asked the president of the Colorado Drug Investigators Association, Ernie Martinez, about these statistics, he urged me to look at the crimes that have been happening in connection to marijuana — even after legalization:
Crime Is Up in Colorado: What That Tells Us About Pot Legalization and, Perhaps More Importantly, Lazy Reporting

It is easy to cherry pick data to present either argument... Part of the problem with todays media. You site a Huffington post article that failed to site it's sources vs my article from the Drug Policy Org. which sited over a dozen reliable sources. But lets just use common sense. Statistics aside and objectively speaking...

I'd expect there to be a spike in use and small crime immediately after legalization as you get the first wave of celebratory passing of the peace pipe. I think this spike mellows out over time. Because of legalization of course it is easy to show dramatic decreases in pot related crime stats, that isn't the point, the point is how much money is being SAVED in enforcement and processing of these arrests. If you really think the black market is thriving then you must be smoking. For that to be true there would need to be such an increase in usage that covers sales from all the new legal businesses plus an increase in the black market which you claim is happening. Use your brain, the legal market is dramatically cutting into the black market. The tax revenue and economic effects are undeniable. You say that it is a non factor because it isn't as stable as property taxes?? Come on, you can do better than that... Income is income and if used right it can make great impacts on our communities... This is the key. Now there is revenue to put towards programs that help future generations to learn the harms of drugs and gain support for addicts that are abusing. I'm not advocating drug use, i'm proposing a smarter way to deal with the problem that helps our economy and has an end goal of decreasing use and abuse.

If you're not convinced then just compare to the alternative... Millions/Billions in new revenue and less enforcement/jail costs plus a better economy plus more jobs vs. the status quo which has given us an ineffective and expensive war that has funded smugglers and loses Billions in enforcement.

Links within texts are beautiful. They did cite the source.

http://drthurstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Crime-Stats-Thurstone.pdf

The alternative is decriminalization and the harm reduction method. I had you pegged from the get go. Another white boy that wants to make dealing respectful.

You had shit pegged, i'm not trying to promote drug use or dealing. MIKEK the OP has made some very well articulated points along the same lines as mine. He does not strike me as a promoter of drug use either, but we both understand that all the time and money that we spend fighting illegal drugs is a waste. The benefits and potential of a highly regulated and taxed industry can do so much to help education, healthcare, community programs and grow jobs which can have a real positive impact in our society.

You sight some articles that show that crime stats are the same, black market operations flourishing, and harm reduction doesn't work. For every one of your articles there are a dozen to the contrary... There is no point getting in a "link" war. Use your common sense. If you have none then keep your old school conservative point of view and keep bitching as you see our country progress towards the ideas that we are sharing.

You have failed to make make clear what your stance is and why... Is your stance that we should keep the status quo? Increase funding for stricter enforcement of drug use and dealing? How would President Disir solve the drug problem?

I'm advocating harm reduction policies, dumbass.

Why don't you go back and read my initial post and start over.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

I would like Society to openly acknowledge that the Marijuana laws are absolutely. totally irredeemably RACIST and that the people responsible for these laws should be disgraced in history forever....

 

[Disir]

Pfffttt..............