Do You Think The Fast & Furious Scandal Is Worse Than Watergate Scandal?

[Uncensored2008]

Im not panicking, stop projecting. Wow you sure have some deep insight into how I think, of course you have zero evidence of this nazi.

Right, your so calm that your spewing 360° of shit in hopes of distracting from that criminal acts of Holder.

Im not saying we need to focus on jobs. I am saying that is more important to people right now.

But it wasn't last week, not until Holder got in over his head....

Oh please you don't give twp shit about dead mexicans or the federal agent. That's the prop you need to attack a man you hate, because of your own ignorance.

What I care about is a government that is held to the same laws as the governed. Holder is above the law - or so he, and you, think.

Moral high ground you do not have.

Right..

I mean, it's not like he eaves dropped on a democrat, still giving weapons to drug cartels that led to the death of two federal agents gets the attention of the American people, now that the facts can't be suppressed.

Lay off the bottle gramps, you are killing what little brains you have left.

Ah, so you are a sock of the same moron who does "conservaderrps."

Figures.

 

[mudwhistle]

Depends, do the Drug cartels have access and are they killing innocent people with F-4 Jets?

Guess my point went over your head.

You can't seem to tell the difference between selling weapons to a foreign militarily and selling them directly to drug-cartels. Yet you still condone F&F.

I think you're confused.

Feel free to post a link to my post condoning F&F!

Most of the US made weapons the cartels have come from the foreign military's we sell too.

F&F was stupid and the tactic should be condemned. However F&F is not comparable to Nixon's Watergate.

Condone, rationalize, make excuses for.

Not much different when you claim that agent would be dead regardless what the Administration did.

And then you try to trivialize this by comparing FF to normal arms sales to foreign governments.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you attempt to do that?

 

[Vast LWC]

Your Messiah®

Jesus? What does he have to do with it?

was caught balls deep in the dog. Screaming about Issa, trying to distract with Iran-Contra, and all the rest of the smoke you blow, won't change the fact that he screwed the pooch.

This entire thread is about comparing two large-scale government scandals.

The OP specifically states it.

Therefore, comparing the current scandal with one that is more similar (i.e. Iran Contra) is directly related to the point of the thread.

If you don't like the tone of the thread, complain to the OP, and start another thread.

 

[Dick Tuck]

At least 2 Americans and who knows how many Mexicans were killed with the guns from fast and furious.

That, to me, makes this scandal way worse than watergate.

No way. It's simply a distraction from where the real firepower is coming from. Just part of the circus.

The fact is that the bulk of the arms used by the Mexican drug cartels did not - and do not originate from gun shop sales in the U.S., but from U.S. government sponsored programs that sell weapons and ammunition to the Mexican military as well as other third-world nations. Many of the weapons used in Mexico are actually from Central American countries with programs administered by the Pentagon and with the knowledge of the U.S. State Department.

Confirmation of the government’s programs and knowledge by government officials was made public by the release of State Department cables published by Wikileaks.

All modern American administrations have been involved in that. Think Issa will hold some hearings on that?

So you don't think that this scandal, where people have died and been murdered directly by the weapons involved, is not worse than watergate? Really?

Who died in watergate again?

Who was impeached for Iran/Contra?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

No way. It's simply a distraction from where the real firepower is coming from. Just part of the circus.

The fact is that the bulk of the arms used by the Mexican drug cartels did not - and do not originate from gun shop sales in the U.S., but from U.S. government sponsored programs that sell weapons and ammunition to the Mexican military as well as other third-world nations. Many of the weapons used in Mexico are actually from Central American countries with programs administered by the Pentagon and with the knowledge of the U.S. State Department.

Confirmation of the government’s programs and knowledge by government officials was made public by the release of State Department cables published by Wikileaks.

All modern American administrations have been involved in that. Think Issa will hold some hearings on that?

So you don't think that this scandal, where people have died and been murdered directly by the weapons involved, is not worse than watergate? Really?

Who died in watergate again?

Who was impeached for Iran/Contra?

go dig Reagan up and impeach him find bush and try him get this shit out of your system because obama is fucking this country up 10 over what any other president has ever done.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Jesus? What does he have to do with it?

Jesus isn't a manufactured entity from Hollywood, thus he gets no trademark registration. Obama, the little tin Messiah® from Soros Inc. (Who save's 15% in 15 minutes for switching to Geico) is a registered trademark.

This entire thread is about comparing two large-scale government scandals.

At least you acknowledge that this is a scandal, more than most of your brethren have done.

The OP specifically states it.

Therefore, comparing the current scandal with one that is more similar (i.e. Iran Contra) is directly related to the point of the thread.

If we were comparing, that would be a valid point, but most of this has been smoke blowing to distract from the issue at hand.

Is this worse than Watergate? Watergate was a burglary to get data on the opposition. Watergate was nothing, a farce to bring down Nixon. The Republicans didn't know how to play hardball and folded. When Clinton threatened witnesses, bribed witnesses and perjured himself, every last Democrat circled the wagons to defend him. Had Republicans done the same, Nixon would have easily served out his full term.

Republican did the right thing in 73' but they failed to understand that the democrats don't share their love of country and the law - that it was a one way street, no REPUBLICAN is above the law, but EVERY democrat is.

If you don't like the tone of the thread, complain to the OP, and start another thread.

When the partisan drones seek to distract from the crimes of Holder, I'm going to call them on it.

 

[Dick Tuck]

So you don't think that this scandal, where people have died and been murdered directly by the weapons involved, is not worse than watergate? Really?

Who died in watergate again?

Who was impeached for Iran/Contra?

go dig Reagan up and impeach him find bush and try him get this shit out of your system because obama is fucking this country up 10 over what any other president has ever done.

Nope, because I don't go by your stupid standard. But by any reasonable standard, I've yet to see a crime committed. I've yet to see anywhere that Obama or Holder approved of the operation. What I did see is that Holder asked for an IG investigation within a month of hearing about it. What I did see was even top level ATF agents were blindsided by it.

So you're insipid logic, that this is worse than Watergate because someone was killed falls flat. Like I've said before, cops can do some pretty damn stupid things, that result in good guys or innocents being killed.

You're too partisan to understand that, since you even tried to pin Ruby Ridge on Clinton. So here, again, is a bit more insight on who knew what and when:

Here's some perspective, from an article published last December:

Angry former ATF chief blames subordinates for Fast and Furious

Found in the article is the fact that Holder ordered the IG investigation within a month of learning about it. Also found in the article is even top ATF officials were unaware of it. Tying this to Holder and Obama is bullshit. Pelosi is right. This is political payback for the DOJ stopping some voter suppression initiatives.

 

[SayMyName]

Is this worse than Watergate? Watergate was a burglary to get data on the opposition. Watergate was nothing, a farce to bring down Nixon. The Republicans didn't know how to play hardball and folded. When Clinton threatened witnesses, bribed witnesses and perjured himself, every last Democrat circled the wagons to defend him. Had Republicans done the same, Nixon would have easily served out his full term.

True. True.

 

[BlindBoo]

Guess my point went over your head.

You can't seem to tell the difference between selling weapons to a foreign militarily and selling them directly to drug-cartels. Yet you still condone F&F.

I think you're confused.

Feel free to post a link to my post condoning F&F!

Most of the US made weapons the cartels have come from the foreign military's we sell too.

F&F was stupid and the tactic should be condemned. However F&F is not comparable to Nixon's Watergate.

Condone, rationalize, make excuses for.

Not much different when you claim that agent would be dead regardless what the Administration did.

And then you try to trivialize this by comparing FF to normal arms sales to foreign governments.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you attempt to do that?

The SOP of shooting bean bags at the intruders is more to blame than F&F in the agents death.

The number of weapons supplied to the cartels by F&F is a tiny fraction of what they recieve from their contacts within the governments of Central America.

But if all you want to do is hammer away at the President of the United States, have at it. Looks more and more like the boy who cried wolf.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Who was impeached for Iran/Contra?

go dig Reagan up and impeach him find bush and try him get this shit out of your system because obama is fucking this country up 10 over what any other president has ever done.

Nope, because I don't go by your stupid standard. But by any reasonable standard, I've yet to see a crime committed. I've yet to see anywhere that Obama or Holder approved of the operation. What I did see is that Holder asked for an IG investigation within a month of hearing about it. What I did see was even top level ATF agents were blindsided by it.

So you're insipid logic, that this is worse than Watergate because someone was killed falls flat. Like I've said before, cops can do some pretty damn stupid things, that result in good guys or innocents being killed.

You're too partisan to understand that, since you even tried to pin Ruby Ridge on Clinton. So here, again, is a bit more insight on who knew what and when:

Here's some perspective, from an article published last December:

Angry former ATF chief blames subordinates for Fast and Furious

Found in the article is the fact that Holder ordered the IG investigation within a month of learning about it. Also found in the article is even top ATF officials were unaware of it. Tying this to Holder and Obama is bullshit. Pelosi is right. This is political payback for the DOJ stopping some voter suppression initiatives.

Dude your link is moot since obama use executive privilege. When obama did this he admitted he knew about fast and the furious.

 

[BlindBoo]

Your Messiah®

Jesus? What does he have to do with it?

was caught balls deep in the dog. Screaming about Issa, trying to distract with Iran-Contra, and all the rest of the smoke you blow, won't change the fact that he screwed the pooch.

This entire thread is about comparing two large-scale government scandals.

The OP specifically states it.

Therefore, comparing the current scandal with one that is more similar (i.e. Iran Contra) is directly related to the point of the thread.

If you don't like the tone of the thread, complain to the OP, and start another thread.

For the record IMO Uncensored was way off base on that one. I never mentioned the illegal arming of the contra rebels by Raygun. Never tried to compare the two. That was a case where they were directly sending arms and supplies, they were not trying to catch any criminals. They were arming them to terrorise a democratically elected government.

 

[Vast LWC]

Jesus isn't a manufactured entity from Hollywood, thus he gets no trademark registration. Obama, the little tin Messiah® from Soros Inc. (Who save's 15% in 15 minutes for switching to Geico) is a registered trademark.

Aww, I see. Do you feel that this somehow will make people angry? Because anyone who's not a strong Obama-hater will probably just be confused.

Or, if they do happen to be one of the few outside the bubble to understand the reference, they'll just think it's dumb, and move on.

But, whatever.

At least you acknowledge that this is a scandal, more than most of your brethren have done.

If we were comparing, that would be a valid point, but most of this has been smoke blowing to distract from the issue at hand.

We are comparing. That was the point of the thread, to make comparisons to other scandals.

And yes, I think it's a scandal. It's a scandal that DoJ bungled an operation of this magnitude in such a spectacular manner.

However, unlike many people posting here, I don't feel the need to assign some sort of motivation for it. They just fucked up royally.

In the case of Iran/Contra, there was clear motivation, and intent to covertly fund a terrorist/guerilla organization.

Is this worse than Watergate? Watergate was a burglary to get data on the opposition. Watergate was nothing, a farce to bring down Nixon. The Republicans didn't know how to play hardball and folded. When Clinton threatened witnesses, bribed witnesses and perjured himself, every last Democrat circled the wagons to defend him. Had Republicans done the same, Nixon would have easily served out his full term.

Republican did the right thing in 73' but they failed to understand that the democrats don't share their love of country and the law - that it was a one way street, no REPUBLICAN is above the law, but EVERY democrat is.

When the partisan drones seek to distract from the crimes of Holder, I'm going to call them on it.

Is it "worse than Watergate"?

If there was motivation and intent to lose the weapons in order to intentionally arm the drug dealers in question, then, yes, it would be.

But, as it is, it's just incompetence on the part of the ATF.

 

[Vast LWC]

Your Messiah®

Jesus? What does he have to do with it?

was caught balls deep in the dog. Screaming about Issa, trying to distract with Iran-Contra, and all the rest of the smoke you blow, won't change the fact that he screwed the pooch.

This entire thread is about comparing two large-scale government scandals.

The OP specifically states it.

Therefore, comparing the current scandal with one that is more similar (i.e. Iran Contra) is directly related to the point of the thread.

If you don't like the tone of the thread, complain to the OP, and start another thread.

For the record IMO Uncensored was way off base on that one. I never mentioned the illegal arming of the contra rebels by Raygun. Never tried to compare the two. That was a case where they were directly sending arms and supplies, they were not trying to catch any criminals. They were arming them to terrorise a democratically elected government.

True enough. It's all about intent and motivation.

 

[Plasmaball]

Im not panicking, stop projecting. Wow you sure have some deep insight into how I think, of course you have zero evidence of this nazi.

Right, your so calm that your spewing 360° of shit in hopes of distracting from that criminal acts of Holder.

Im not saying we need to focus on jobs. I am saying that is more important to people right now.

But it wasn't last week, not until Holder got in over his head....



What I care about is a government that is held to the same laws as the governed. Holder is above the law - or so he, and you, think.

Moral high ground you do not have.

Right..

I mean, it's not like he eaves dropped on a democrat, still giving weapons to drug cartels that led to the death of two federal agents gets the attention of the American people, now that the facts can't be suppressed.

Lay off the bottle gramps, you are killing what little brains you have left.

Ah, so you are a sock of the same moron who does "conservaderrps."

Figures.

Ok well you have fun making up shit on your own...I seriously don't care.

 

[tjvh]

Jesus isn't a manufactured entity from Hollywood, thus he gets no trademark registration. Obama, the little tin Messiah® from Soros Inc. (Who save's 15% in 15 minutes for switching to Geico) is a registered trademark.

Aww, I see. Do you feel that this somehow will make people angry? Because anyone who's not a strong Obama-hater will probably just be confused.

Or, if they do happen to be one of the few outside the bubble to understand the reference, they'll just think it's dumb, and move on.

But, whatever.

At least you acknowledge that this is a scandal, more than most of your brethren have done.

If we were comparing, that would be a valid point, but most of this has been smoke blowing to distract from the issue at hand.

We are comparing. That was the point of the thread, to make comparisons to other scandals.

And yes, I think it's a scandal. It's a scandal that DoJ bungled an operation of this magnitude in such a spectacular manner.

However, unlike many people posting here, I don't feel the need to assign some sort of motivation for it. They just fucked up royally.

In the case of Iran/Contra, there was clear motivation, and intent to covertly fund a terrorist/guerilla organization.

Is this worse than Watergate? Watergate was a burglary to get data on the opposition. Watergate was nothing, a farce to bring down Nixon. The Republicans didn't know how to play hardball and folded. When Clinton threatened witnesses, bribed witnesses and perjured himself, every last Democrat circled the wagons to defend him. Had Republicans done the same, Nixon would have easily served out his full term.

Republican did the right thing in 73' but they failed to understand that the democrats don't share their love of country and the law - that it was a one way street, no REPUBLICAN is above the law, but EVERY democrat is.

When the partisan drones seek to distract from the crimes of Holder, I'm going to call them on it.

Is it "worse than Watergate"?

If there was motivation and intent to lose the weapons in order to intentionally arm the drug dealers in question, then, yes, it would be.

But, as it is, it's just incompetence on the part of the ATF.

"Incompetence" does not shelter you or make you immune from "responsibility".

 

[Uncensored2008]

The SOP of shooting bean bags at the intruders is more to blame than F&F in the agents death.

The number of weapons supplied to the cartels by F&F is a tiny fraction of what they recieve from their contacts within the governments of Central America.

But if all you want to do is hammer away at the President of the United States, have at it. Looks more and more like the boy who cried wolf.

 

[Rinata]

Not true. You hate Think Progress for the same reason you right wing nuts hate Rachel Maddow.

More Keith Olbermann. Maddow is the lefts version of Ann Coulter, she pushes the buttons of the opposition, but sticks to the fact. ThinkProgress openly fabricates stories and prints libel as it's primary function.

They tell the truth and you people are allergic!!!

Actually, ThinkProgress regularly lies.

I notice you did not tell me what was incorrect in what Think Progress said.

They are not a credible source, I don't bother with them.

You have the DNC press, CNN, NBC, NY Times, Washington Post - if you can't make your case with the party press and must fall to the hate sites, then you don't have a legitimate point.

Well, what did you see in those news sources above that makes you say TP is wrong??? Nothing, that's what!!! I'm sure you didn't even try to find out. You keep criticizing TP but offer no valid reason why what they say is incorrect. You're a phony and you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I give Obama credit for finding a away to keep his telling his publisher that he was born in Kenya and likes to eat dogs out of the headlines

 

[bigrebnc1775]

 

[mudwhistle]

Feel free to post a link to my post condoning F&F!

Most of the US made weapons the cartels have come from the foreign military's we sell too.

F&F was stupid and the tactic should be condemned. However F&F is not comparable to Nixon's Watergate.

Condone, rationalize, make excuses for.

Not much different when you claim that agent would be dead regardless what the Administration did.

And then you try to trivialize this by comparing FF to normal arms sales to foreign governments.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you attempt to do that?

The SOP of shooting bean bags at the intruders is more to blame than F&F in the agents death.

The number of weapons supplied to the cartels by F&F is a tiny fraction of what they recieve from their contacts within the governments of Central America.

But if all you want to do is hammer away at the President of the United States, have at it. Looks more and more like the boy who cried wolf.

So you are condoning it.

Let me ask you a question; What do you think a drug-runner will do to a Mexican Police vehicle if he has a 50 cal sniper rifle?

Ever see Robocop?
Ever see Black Hawk Down?
Ever see what those guns can do first hand?

I have.

The Obama Administration put them in the hands of criminals hoping for a massive body-count.