does God love us?

[Blues Man]

Back to the football analogy.

There are more rules for moving the ball down the field than there are for what constitutes a touchdown, field goal or safety.

So do you think that the goal of the offense is simply to move the ball around and not score points?

The rules are the means to the end.

Let's use your life as an analogy instead because that's a more relevant comparison. Why do you do the things you do?

What things?

I do lots of things every day.

for example, I brush my teeth and floss so I don't get cavities.

 

[ding]

Back to the football analogy.

There are more rules for moving the ball down the field than there are for what constitutes a touchdown, field goal or safety.

So do you think that the goal of the offense is simply to move the ball around and not score points?

The rules are the means to the end.

Let's use your life as an analogy instead because that's a more relevant comparison. Why do you do the things you do?

What things?

I do lots of things every day.

for example, I brush my teeth and floss so I don't get cavities.

Don't play coy.

 

[Blues Man]

it doesn't matter.

It does if you are after the truth.

The truth is all the rules set out by religions for "good living" are the ones that will earn the rewards of a god.

Wrong. The truth stands on its own and is based upon logical reasons.

Yeah and the reason to follow gods rules is so one can get a reward from god when he dies.

 

[Blues Man]

Back to the football analogy.

There are more rules for moving the ball down the field than there are for what constitutes a touchdown, field goal or safety.

So do you think that the goal of the offense is simply to move the ball around and not score points?

The rules are the means to the end.

Let's use your life as an analogy instead because that's a more relevant comparison. Why do you do the things you do?

What things?

I do lots of things every day.

for example, I brush my teeth and floss so I don't get cavities.

Don't play coy.

don't be vague.

 

[ding]

it doesn't matter.

It does if you are after the truth.

The truth is all the rules set out by religions for "good living" are the ones that will earn the rewards of a god.

Wrong. The truth stands on its own and is based upon logical reasons.

Yeah and the reason to follow gods rules is so one can get a reward from god when he dies.

Wrong. That is your conclusion based upon your biases.

 

[ding]

Back to the football analogy.

There are more rules for moving the ball down the field than there are for what constitutes a touchdown, field goal or safety.

So do you think that the goal of the offense is simply to move the ball around and not score points?

The rules are the means to the end.

Let's use your life as an analogy instead because that's a more relevant comparison. Why do you do the things you do?

What things?

I do lots of things every day.

for example, I brush my teeth and floss so I don't get cavities.

Don't play coy.

don't be vague.

Nothing vague in the context of this discussion. You don't understand the question in the context of this discussion?

 

[Blues Man]

it doesn't matter.

It does if you are after the truth.

The truth is all the rules set out by religions for "good living" are the ones that will earn the rewards of a god.

Wrong. The truth stands on its own and is based upon logical reasons.

Yeah and the reason to follow gods rules is so one can get a reward from god when he dies.

Wrong. That is your conclusion based upon your biases.

No they're not.

They are based on what I heard in churches when I went as a kid, in Sunday school and what I have read in the bible

 

[Blues Man]

Back to the football analogy.

There are more rules for moving the ball down the field than there are for what constitutes a touchdown, field goal or safety.

So do you think that the goal of the offense is simply to move the ball around and not score points?

The rules are the means to the end.

Let's use your life as an analogy instead because that's a more relevant comparison. Why do you do the things you do?

What things?

I do lots of things every day.

for example, I brush my teeth and floss so I don't get cavities.

Don't play coy.

don't be vague.

Nothing vague in the context of this discussion. You don't understand the question in the context of this discussion?

Why do I do the things I do ?

Is a vague question in any context.

What behaviors have we been discussing?

 

[ding]

it doesn't matter.

It does if you are after the truth.

The truth is all the rules set out by religions for "good living" are the ones that will earn the rewards of a god.

Wrong. The truth stands on its own and is based upon logical reasons.

Yeah and the reason to follow gods rules is so one can get a reward from god when he dies.

Wrong. That is your conclusion based upon your biases.

No they're not.

They are based on what I heard in churches when I went as a kid, in Sunday school and what I have read in the bible

So... from a child's perspective. Got it. What could possibly go wrong with that?

 

[BULLDOG]

[

It always makes me scratch my head when I read about people not believing in God because He DOESN'T do magical things for them.

No faith. Matthew 17:20

How many mountains have you seen being moved lately? You know somebody would have done it by now if it was possible.

Depends on how you took it. But let's assume it was meant to be taken literally, how do you know what the limit of consciousness is?

Christians crow about how accurate the bible is except for the parts where they need an excuse to ignore it. I'm just saying there aren't any mountains jumping back and forth.

I suspect there may be no passages you would accept. You think it's all fairytales, right?

There is profound wisdom and universal truth to be found in the Bible. I could never compare it with a simple fairy tale. Much of it is true, even if those events depicted never really happened. Unfortunately, the more I studied it, the less reason I found to believe in a loving, all powerful god who does such horrible things.

Interesting. All I can tell you is that the Jews believed God was loving, so maybe it's your understanding of what you are reading that is flawed. As for events depicted never happening, not sure what you are referring to but if you are reading it literally I can understand your confusion.

I did not come to believe in God by reading other people's perception of God. I came to believe in God through observations of the natural world, myself, others, logic and experience. It was only then that I was able to make sense of the various teachings of ancient man. All I can tell you is that my confirmation came from experiencing God firsthand and witnessing the transformations which ensued. The proof is always in the pudding and my life has been enriched beyond measure for making that pudding.

If you don't feel that something is missing or the need to transform yourself, then don't.

I feel the need to transform myself every day. There are always new goals to accomplish, and imperfections to correct. You don't need the fear of an omnipotent judgmental being to want to better yourself. I want to better myself for me and the ones I love, not because I'm afraid of what some imagined all knowing taskmaster will do to me if I don't.

It's not about fear. It's about love.

Right. The love of keeping your ass out of an imaginary fire. That's what it all comes down to. Well, that, and an inordinate sense of superiority.

religion plays to greed and fear and always has

That doesn't sound like a functional advantage.

It is

How many billions of dollars are given to religions annually?

Bitter much?

Why would I be bitter?

I never gave money to any religion.

religion plays of the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

Because you haven't filled your God void. Which is why you are here arguing against the beliefs of others; making straw-men arguments like religion plays on the fear of death and the greed of those wanting eternal bliss.

I already showed you how Darwin says you are wrong. Natural selection confirms that spirituality is a behavior which leads to success. Otherwise, according to natural selection, it would have been abandoned long ago.

I have no god void. I have no use for gods because they are imaginary.

and the definition for spirituality has become so vague as to be meaningless.

Path not taken so you have never tested it and don't know.

If you believe that you are more than matter, then you would be spiritual. If you believe you are only matter, then you are a materialist. Can't get anymore simple or succinct than that.

I was exposed to religion when I was young. I realized quite early that I had no need for it.

Religion isn't God. Why are you equivocating?

I'm not. I have no use for gods therefore I have no use for religion.

I never equated them. That's you making shit up again

The path you didn't take was entering into a relationship with God. That is what you have never tested. Your response to that was you were exposed to religion when you were young and realized you had no use for it. That's you equivocating religion with God. They are two different things. So, no, I didn't make anything up.

So I will say again, you have never tested having a relationship with God so you have never traveled down that path and cannot hold an informed opinion on whether that relationship will enrich your life and make you become the best version of yourself. I have traveled both paths.

Like I said I have no use for gods. I gave up the idea of imaginary friends when I was 9 years old.

Like I said... path not traveled. It's your loss.

No I haven't lost a thing.

How would you know? You never tested it.

I never shot heroin either but I think I'm better of not having tested it.

Agreed. But that's a false analogy. Got anymore disingenuous arguments?

It's a perfectly fine analogy. There are lots of things I haven't tested and yet I know I have no use for them

One is an overwhelming force for evil and the other is an overwhelming force for good, so no, it's not. It's just you rationalizing your choice.

The inquisition was nothing more than religious fanatics who thought they were following the will of an overwhelming force for good.

 

[ding]

Back to the football analogy.

There are more rules for moving the ball down the field than there are for what constitutes a touchdown, field goal or safety.

So do you think that the goal of the offense is simply to move the ball around and not score points?

The rules are the means to the end.

Let's use your life as an analogy instead because that's a more relevant comparison. Why do you do the things you do?

What things?

I do lots of things every day.

for example, I brush my teeth and floss so I don't get cavities.

Don't play coy.

don't be vague.

Nothing vague in the context of this discussion. You don't understand the question in the context of this discussion?

Why do I do the things I do ?

Is a vague question in any context.

What behaviors have we been discussing?

Not in the context of good and evil it's not. And that is what we are talking about, right?

You going to keep playing games, bro?

 

[Blues Man]

it doesn't matter.

It does if you are after the truth.

The truth is all the rules set out by religions for "good living" are the ones that will earn the rewards of a god.

Wrong. The truth stands on its own and is based upon logical reasons.

Yeah and the reason to follow gods rules is so one can get a reward from god when he dies.

Wrong. That is your conclusion based upon your biases.

No they're not.

They are based on what I heard in churches when I went as a kid, in Sunday school and what I have read in the bible

So... from a child's perspective. Got it. What could possibly go wrong with that?

It hasn't changed.

The bible still promises a reward from god.

Why don't you tell me where it states that there will be no rewards from god no matter how devout a person is.

 

[ding]

it doesn't matter.

It does if you are after the truth.

The truth is all the rules set out by religions for "good living" are the ones that will earn the rewards of a god.

Wrong. The truth stands on its own and is based upon logical reasons.

Yeah and the reason to follow gods rules is so one can get a reward from god when he dies.

Wrong. That is your conclusion based upon your biases.

No they're not.

They are based on what I heard in churches when I went as a kid, in Sunday school and what I have read in the bible

So... from a child's perspective. Got it. What could possibly go wrong with that?

It hasn't changed.

The bible still promises a reward from god.

Why don't you tell me where it states that there will be no rewards from god no matter how devout a person is.

But you have changed. You are no longer a child. You are now an adult... who is still clinging to the beliefs he developed as a child without any further investigation.

 

[tyroneweaver]

after killing 3 million people with one virus, it seems to me God is an asshole, if he exists even

Some day maybe you'll figure out why God created the earth, and why man had to fall, and the need of a Redeemer.
But I don't think you're quite there yet

 

[Blues Man]

Back to the football analogy.

There are more rules for moving the ball down the field than there are for what constitutes a touchdown, field goal or safety.

So do you think that the goal of the offense is simply to move the ball around and not score points?

The rules are the means to the end.

Let's use your life as an analogy instead because that's a more relevant comparison. Why do you do the things you do?

What things?

I do lots of things every day.

for example, I brush my teeth and floss so I don't get cavities.

Don't play coy.

don't be vague.

Nothing vague in the context of this discussion. You don't understand the question in the context of this discussion?

Why do I do the things I do ?

Is a vague question in any context.

What behaviors have we been discussing?

Not in the context of good and evil it's not. And that is what we are talking about, right?

You going to keep playing games, bro?

Good and evil aren't behaviors. They are value judgements on behaviors.

we've been over this before

 

[ding]

The bible still promises a reward from god.

Maybe from a child's perspective, but there's way more to it than that. You'd think if that were truly the case there'd be more than 46 out of 31,102 verses that discussed what you claim is the central theme of all religions.

 

[ding]

Back to the football analogy.

There are more rules for moving the ball down the field than there are for what constitutes a touchdown, field goal or safety.

So do you think that the goal of the offense is simply to move the ball around and not score points?

The rules are the means to the end.

Let's use your life as an analogy instead because that's a more relevant comparison. Why do you do the things you do?

What things?

I do lots of things every day.

for example, I brush my teeth and floss so I don't get cavities.

Don't play coy.

don't be vague.

Nothing vague in the context of this discussion. You don't understand the question in the context of this discussion?

Why do I do the things I do ?

Is a vague question in any context.

What behaviors have we been discussing?

Not in the context of good and evil it's not. And that is what we are talking about, right?

You going to keep playing games, bro?

Good and evil aren't behaviors. They are value judgements on behaviors.

we've been over this before

So why do you choose one of the other then? Why do you do the things that you do?

 

[Blues Man]

it doesn't matter.

It does if you are after the truth.

The truth is all the rules set out by religions for "good living" are the ones that will earn the rewards of a god.

Wrong. The truth stands on its own and is based upon logical reasons.

Yeah and the reason to follow gods rules is so one can get a reward from god when he dies.

Wrong. That is your conclusion based upon your biases.

No they're not.

They are based on what I heard in churches when I went as a kid, in Sunday school and what I have read in the bible

So... from a child's perspective. Got it. What could possibly go wrong with that?

It hasn't changed.

The bible still promises a reward from god.

Why don't you tell me where it states that there will be no rewards from god no matter how devout a person is.

But you have changed. You are no longer a child. You are now an adult... who is still clinging to the beliefs he developed as a child without any further investigation.

Yeah I just don't believe what people tell me to believe anymore.

And why is it clinging to anything?

Why deny that the bible clearly states that reward shall be given to the people who follow god's word?

 

[ding]

it doesn't matter.

It does if you are after the truth.

The truth is all the rules set out by religions for "good living" are the ones that will earn the rewards of a god.

Wrong. The truth stands on its own and is based upon logical reasons.

Yeah and the reason to follow gods rules is so one can get a reward from god when he dies.

Wrong. That is your conclusion based upon your biases.

No they're not.

They are based on what I heard in churches when I went as a kid, in Sunday school and what I have read in the bible

So... from a child's perspective. Got it. What could possibly go wrong with that?

It hasn't changed.

The bible still promises a reward from god.

Why don't you tell me where it states that there will be no rewards from god no matter how devout a person is.

But you have changed. You are no longer a child. You are now an adult... who is still clinging to the beliefs he developed as a child without any further investigation.

Yeah I just don't believe what people tell me to believe anymore.

And why is it clinging to anything?

Why deny that the bible clearly states that reward shall be given to the people who follow god's word?

Because you have a child's interpretation still.

 

[Blues Man]

The bible still promises a reward from god.

Maybe from a child's perspective, but there's way more to it than that. You'd think if that were truly the case there'd be more than 46 out of 31,102 verses that discussed what you claim is the central theme of all religions.

no not really because there is only one type of reward but there are many ways to behave.

The end result is always easy to define. How to achieve is always more complicated.