Down the rabbit hole.

[PredFan]

Up is down, black is white, right is wrong, good is bad, left is right and vice versa.

Back when I was young and liberal, there were things I believed about being a liberal. I believed in freedom and fairness, I believed in women and minorities, and I never ever EVER trusted the government.

Now all of that really depends on what suits the agenda.

Blacks and minorities are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

Women are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

No matter what the government does under a Democrat Administration, it's good and fine. Corruption..good, lying...good, coercion...good, unlawfullness...good, shady dealings...good, violation of basic rights...good. Even wars are tolerated, and "patriotism" suddenly is no longer a dirty word.

How far down does the rabbit hole go I wonder?

 

[tinydancer]

Up is down, black is white, right is wrong, good is bad, left is right and vice versa.

Back when I was young and liberal, there were things I believed about being a liberal. I believed in freedom and fairness, I believed in women and minorities, and I never ever EVER trusted the government.

Now all of that really depends on what suits the agenda.

Blacks and minorities are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

Women are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

No matter what the government does under a Democrat Administration, it's good and fine. Corruption..good, lying...good, coercion...good, unlawfullness...good, shady dealings...good, violation of basic rights...good. Even wars are tolerated, and "patriotism" suddenly is no longer a dirty word.

How far down does the rabbit hole go I wonder?

The "so called liberals" of today are not the liberals of the past.

 

[PredFan]

Up is down, black is white, right is wrong, good is bad, left is right and vice versa.

Back when I was young and liberal, there were things I believed about being a liberal. I believed in freedom and fairness, I believed in women and minorities, and I never ever EVER trusted the government.

Now all of that really depends on what suits the agenda.

Blacks and minorities are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

Women are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

No matter what the government does under a Democrat Administration, it's good and fine. Corruption..good, lying...good, coercion...good, unlawfullness...good, shady dealings...good, violation of basic rights...good. Even wars are tolerated, and "patriotism" suddenly is no longer a dirty word.

How far down does the rabbit hole go I wonder?

The "so called liberals" of today are not the liberals of the past.

Agreed. A Classical Liberal is pretty close to what I was and pretty close to what I still am.

 

[PredFan]

And apparently using drones to kill Americans is fine but waterboarding terrorists is not.

 

[Katzndogz]

At the risk of echoing Novasteve, we are expected to deny reality on a daily basis.

 

[bendog]

I dunno. it seems to me that Obama's view of societal benefits and cost bearing is not all that different from JFK and more so RFK. A classic liberal views govt as a tool for society to make itself better. Yet, the thread seems to assert liberalism views govt the same as do libertarians. That may be correct for classical liberalism, but social liberalism of the democrat party, and even Nixon and Ike, that was the dominant polictical philosophy from 1930 to 1980 certainly didn't share that view of govt.

I'm not entirely on board with that, but given the gop's view on society is more akin to the Koch's got theirs and I'm on my own than Reagan, at least Obama is not openly hostile to my well being.

 

[editec]

Up is down, black is white, right is wrong, good is bad, left is right and vice versa.

Back when I was young and liberal, there were things I believed about being a liberal. I believed in freedom and fairness, I believed in women and minorities, and I never ever EVER trusted the government.

Now all of that really depends on what suits the agenda.

Blacks and minorities are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

Women are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

No matter what the government does under a Democrat Administration, it's good and fine. Corruption..good, lying...good, coercion...good, unlawfullness...good, shady dealings...good, violation of basic rights...good. Even wars are tolerated, and "patriotism" suddenly is no longer a dirty word.

How far down does the rabbit hole go I wonder?

You'll never get out of the rabbit hole if you think the words liberal or conservative stand for anything other than partisans without principles

 

[bendog]

Up is down, black is white, right is wrong, good is bad, left is right and vice versa.

Back when I was young and liberal, there were things I believed about being a liberal. I believed in freedom and fairness, I believed in women and minorities, and I never ever EVER trusted the government.

Now all of that really depends on what suits the agenda.

Blacks and minorities are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

Women are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

No matter what the government does under a Democrat Administration, it's good and fine. Corruption..good, lying...good, coercion...good, unlawfullness...good, shady dealings...good, violation of basic rights...good. Even wars are tolerated, and "patriotism" suddenly is no longer a dirty word.

How far down does the rabbit hole go I wonder?

You'll never get out of the rabbit hole if you think the words liberal or conservative stand for anything other than partisans without principles

That is incorrect for Goldwater, any of the three Kennedy brothers or Reagan.

The current installment of the gop is beholden to preserving the great fortunes of a priviledged few, most of whom benefited from being born to some wealth even if they increased it, and as the few have always done, they protect themselves by pitting us against ourselves. And Obama didn't help when instead of finding some compromise to get some conservative support for healthcare, he rammed the democrat dream down the gop's throat.

The gop house impeached a president over a freaking bj, and the guy went out with 60% approval, then 8 years of Karl Rove's practice of personal destruction and an elective war that in reality we lost, and we have democrat base that views lofty idealism the same as elitist domination. The country is not in a happy spot, but it's not over. Assuming Hill's health is ok, she has proven she can work a bipartisan approach. There are gop pols who can find consensus: Christie, huntsman ... and even Jeb though I think that brandname is done. There were probably less than 500 people in 1980 who actually believed Ronald Reagan could unify America, and we ended up with econ growth for all demographics and the cold war ended well.

 

[PredFan]

Up is down, black is white, right is wrong, good is bad, left is right and vice versa.

Back when I was young and liberal, there were things I believed about being a liberal. I believed in freedom and fairness, I believed in women and minorities, and I never ever EVER trusted the government.

Now all of that really depends on what suits the agenda.

Blacks and minorities are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

Women are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

No matter what the government does under a Democrat Administration, it's good and fine. Corruption..good, lying...good, coercion...good, unlawfullness...good, shady dealings...good, violation of basic rights...good. Even wars are tolerated, and "patriotism" suddenly is no longer a dirty word.

How far down does the rabbit hole go I wonder?

You'll never get out of the rabbit hole if you think the words liberal or conservative stand for anything other than partisans without principles

I understand that completely, I made this thread to point out the left wing side, but in all honesty, there is a right wing side to the problem as well.

 

[PredFan]

I dunno. it seems to me that Obama's view of societal benefits and cost bearing is not all that different from JFK and more so RFK. A classic liberal views govt as a tool for society to make itself better. Yet, the thread seems to assert liberalism views govt the same as do libertarians. That may be correct for classical liberalism, but social liberalism of the democrat party, and even Nixon and Ike, that was the dominant polictical philosophy from 1930 to 1980 certainly didn't share that view of govt.

I'm not entirely on board with that, but given the gop's view on society is more akin to the Koch's got theirs and I'm on my own than Reagan, at least Obama is not openly hostile to my well being.

I was a "liberal" when at 18, i cast my first vote for Carter. My views then, and what i thought were the views of liberls in general is almost exactly the same as what is now labeled "Classical Liberalism".

Obama might not be openly hostile to your well being, but he is to many of us.

 

[bendog]

Up is down, black is white, right is wrong, good is bad, left is right and vice versa.

Back when I was young and liberal, there were things I believed about being a liberal. I believed in freedom and fairness, I believed in women and minorities, and I never ever EVER trusted the government.

Now all of that really depends on what suits the agenda.

Blacks and minorities are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

Women are capable, intelligent, and equal in every way...unless they are Republican.

No matter what the government does under a Democrat Administration, it's good and fine. Corruption..good, lying...good, coercion...good, unlawfullness...good, shady dealings...good, violation of basic rights...good. Even wars are tolerated, and "patriotism" suddenly is no longer a dirty word.

How far down does the rabbit hole go I wonder?

You'll never get out of the rabbit hole if you think the words liberal or conservative stand for anything other than partisans without principles

I understand that completely, I made this thread to point out the left wing side, but in all honesty, there is a right wing side to the problem as well.

That's true, and there's an unice part of me that would sort of chuckle at the disillusion young former Obamaites feel after they figured he'd bring the troops home and end the neocolonialism ... except that party describes my own kid.