Due Process: for noncitizens but not for citizens?

[Sunni Man]

Nowhere.

His action just proved he had the authority. Now care to neg me again?

I would if I thought it would make you smarter but that is an impossibility.

I just neg'ed him for you Ravi

 

[bigrebnc1775]

His action just proved he had the authority. Now care to neg me again?

I would if I thought it would make you smarter but that is an impossibility.

I just neg'ed him for you Ravi

You're a lying sack of shit you haven't neg'ed me yet.

 

[geauxtohell]

We should, but we should not define battlefield in a way that allows us to kill people who are not actively fighting.

The propaganda minister of Nazi Germany was actively fighting.

I decline to let you unilaterally define the meaning of "fighting" to exclude a guy who enlists the enemy recruits and exhorts them, successfully, to kill our people. Such an enemy leader in many ways is a much more urgent and important a target than any one combatant in the field or any set of hijackers on passenger planes.

At least Goebbels would've got a show trial before he was executed, had he not killed himself first.

He killed himself because he knew that was more merciful then what the Soviets would do to him.

They certainly didn't consider him insignificant.

 

[geauxtohell]

What's to stop someone like Alex Jones (nutty that he is) from being declared such an "enemy of the state" and summarily executed?

The "reasonable person standard". That and Alex Jones doesn't belong to a group that has been singled out by our Congress and three presidents for two decades.

Do you guys only do slippery slopes?

"Reasonable standard" is nebulous bullshit, just dying to be "interpreted" the way any given tyrant sees fit.

Need we discuss how the commerce clause and "general welfare" have been debauched and perverted beyond all recognition?

The "reasonable person standard" is just a legal concept. The law would stop Obama from killing Alex Jones, to answer your question.

I would expect Obama to be impeached, removed, and imprisoned if he used the military to target an ordinary American citizen who wasn't affiliated with a terrorist group and actively working to kill Americans.

Forget Alex Jones. He's small potatoes. Julian Assange is doing quite well these days and he's actually done things that are significantly detrimental to our country. He hasn't been "targeted" or "listed for elimination" and he's not an American citizen.

We aren't actively targeting everyone in the world that annoys us. We are actively targeting Al Queda.

The insistance that Jones or any other regular Joe is the same as Awlaki is absurd to the core.

 

[geauxtohell]

Legal remedies do not do much good for the fact that we just broke the Constitution, do they? Not to mention the guy you just wiped off the planet because you did not like his politics.

Yes, QW. This was purely a political "hit".

It had nothing to do with his involvement in AQ.

Since it was purely political in motive, that means anyone, anyone could be next!

This is where you guys start to spin in orbit.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Nowhere.

His action just proved he had the authority. Now care to neg me again?

I would if I thought it would make you smarter but that is an impossibility.

Dumb bitch
Ravi on the Constitution 10/4/11
"Show me where it says due process applies to any American citizen."

 

[Ravi]

His action just proved he had the authority. Now care to neg me again?

I would if I thought it would make you smarter but that is an impossibility.

Dumb bitch
Ravi on the Constitution 10/4/11
"Show me where it says due process applies to any American citizen."

Still waiting for that. It says "any person" not "any American citizen."

How's life under your bed, BuggerReb?

 

[geauxtohell]

"Reasonable standard" is nebulous bullshit, just dying to be "interpreted" the way any given tyrant sees fit.

Need we discuss how the commerce clause and "general welfare" have been debauched and perverted beyond all recognition?

The important difference here being the Commerce Clause and General Welfare Clause were interpreted in the appropriate context of judicial review and the rule of law through the appellate process, where the final appellate court, the Supreme Court, made its rulings.

It’s understood that you and other radical rightists disagree with the outcomes of cases involving those clauses, but you can’t disagree with the process used to make those determinations.

That’s not the case with the Executive unilaterally deciding whether or not due process applies to enemy combatants.

I am sure there will be a legal challenge over this, and it will prompt new law and legislation. An agent of AQ shouldn't be able to use their citizenship as a shield. At the same time, we owe Americans who we consider to be affiliated some sort of process to contest the matter.

Awlaki will be a good case to prompt a change in policies.

In the meantime, I see this as some sort of gray area that is inevitable as we try to respond to an enemy that lies somewhere between a military and criminal cabal. I find it hard to fault any President for making the call, and I doubt Obama will be slapped down for this action.

I do, however, think it will prompt new legislation.

Our history is rife with situations like this. For the most part, they haven't caused a "constitutional crisis". We work through it, and are the better for it.

 

[geauxtohell]

We should, but we should not define battlefield in a way that allows us to kill people who are not actively fighting.

So, theoretically;

Way back in 2004, if my platoon had eyes on an enemy position where they were eating, sleeping, and planning; I shouldn't be able to call in artillery on them.

You would have me stir them up first and then have to maneuver against them? We now have to give up the element of surprise for your delicate sensibilities?

That's absurd. As much as some people bitch about the ROE, even the ROE is not that restrictive.

When you have eyes on a known enemy, you don't have wait for them to get ready before you start dropping rounds on them.

 

[geauxtohell]

His action just proved he had the authority. Now care to neg me again?

I would if I thought it would make you smarter but that is an impossibility.

Dumb bitch
Ravi on the Constitution 10/4/11
"Show me where it says due process applies to any American citizen."

It's a nice thing that better posters than you have shown up on this topic. You've done a pretty good job of mucking it up.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I would if I thought it would make you smarter but that is an impossibility.

Dumb bitch
Ravi on the Constitution 10/4/11
"Show me where it says due process applies to any American citizen."

Still waiting for that. It says "any person" not "any American citizen."

How's life under your bed, BuggerReb?

under my bed? why would I be under my bed? buggereater ravi.

It also starts off with we the people of the United Staes, that's should be self explanatory then you also have the 14th amendment that specifies due process for all U.S Citizens. Are you realy that stupid?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I would if I thought it would make you smarter but that is an impossibility.

Dumb bitch
Ravi on the Constitution 10/4/11
"Show me where it says due process applies to any American citizen."

It's a nice thing that better posters than you have shown up on this topic. You've done a pretty good job of mucking it up.

Whats mocking is you idiot think it's ok for the president to have the authority to kill a American citizen without due process. Thats's mocking the constitution.

 

[Valerie]

Where does it say he has the authority to kill any American?

Nowhere.

His action just proved he had the authority. Now care to neg me again?

The President has had the authority all along ever since that JOINT resolution was drafted under the powers granted BY the Constitution, so THAT is proof that THIS man being targeted was FAR from some whimsical FEELING that came over him...

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Nowhere.

His action just proved he had the authority. Now care to neg me again?

The President has had the authority all along ever since that JOINT resolution was drafted under the powers granted BY the Constitution, so THAT is proof that THIS man being targeted was FAR from some whimsical FEELING that came over him...

Why are you postiung to me buggereater ravi's now saying he doesn't have that authority.

Quote: Originally Posted by Xchel
Where does it say he has the authority to kill any American?

Quote: Originally Posted by Ravi
Nowhere.

 

[Ravi]

His action just proved he had the authority. Now care to neg me again?

The President has had the authority all along ever since that JOINT resolution was drafted under the powers granted BY the Constitution, so THAT is proof that THIS man being targeted was FAR from some whimsical FEELING that came over him...

Why are you postiung to me buggereater ravi's now saying he doesn't have that authority.

Quote: Originally Posted by Xchel
Where does it say he has the authority to kill any American?

Quote: Originally Posted by Ravi
Nowhere.

He doesn't have the authority to kill ANY American.

Is English your second language?

 

[geauxtohell]

Dumb bitch
Ravi on the Constitution 10/4/11
"Show me where it says due process applies to any American citizen."

It's a nice thing that better posters than you have shown up on this topic. You've done a pretty good job of mucking it up.

Whats mocking is you idiot think it's ok for the president to have the authority to kill a American citizen without due process. Thats's mocking the constitution.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The President has had the authority all along ever since that JOINT resolution was drafted under the powers granted BY the Constitution, so THAT is proof that THIS man being targeted was FAR from some whimsical FEELING that came over him...

Why are you postiung to me buggereater ravi's now saying he doesn't have that authority.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ravi
Nowhere.

He doesn't have the authority to kill ANY American.

Is English your second language?

Why don't you two hash it out since it seems you both are disagreeing

Nowhere.

His action just proved he had the authority. Now care to neg me again?

The President has had the authority all along ever since that JOINT resolution was drafted under the powers granted BY the Constitution, so THAT is proof that THIS man being targeted was FAR from some whimsical FEELING that came over him...

 

[flacaltenn]

Ok Ok --- 10 pages latter it becomes clear to me that we will never an ORGANIZED, SYSTEMATIC, CONSTITUTIONAL approach to indicting and shredding the bad guys. The CIA, FBI, DOD, can all do their thing without Congressional or Judicial oversight. And G.W. Bush was too dumb to know who the "evil-doers" were -- but Obama can be exclusively trusted to add the "evil-doers" to the hunt down and kill list..

 

[Ravi]

Why are you postiung to me buggereater ravi's now saying he doesn't have that authority.

He doesn't have the authority to kill ANY American.

Is English your second language?

Why don't you two hash it out since it seems you both are disagreeing

His action just proved he had the authority. Now care to neg me again?

The President has had the authority all along ever since that JOINT resolution was drafted under the powers granted BY the Constitution, so THAT is proof that THIS man being targeted was FAR from some whimsical FEELING that came over him...

We don't disagree. You are simply stupid.

 

[Ravi]

Ok Ok --- 10 pages latter it becomes clear to me that we will never an ORGANIZED, SYSTEMATIC, CONSTITUTIONAL approach to indicting and shredding the bad guys. The CIA, FBI, DOD, can all do their thing without Congressional or Judicial oversight. And G.W. Bush was too dumb to know who the "evil-doers" were -- but Obama can be exclusively trusted to add the "evil-doers" to the hunt down and kill list..

You don't indict the enemy. You defeat them. Sometimes by killing them.