Elizabeth Warren: 'End Electoral College'

[hunarcy]

I'm for leaving it as it is now that allows the states to decide how they want to determine their electors. I'd vote against a state legislator candidate that favors the determination be based on national popular vote.

The new trend is the "clever" Democrats trying to use states' rights to do an end run around the Constitution AND individual voting rights by having states declare that they will ignore the vote outcomes of their own population, and give their electors to whomever OTHER states vote for.

I expect to see a court challenge against state legislatures disenfranchising their own constituents any day now.

There is nothing in the Constitution that requires how states must choose their electors and so it would be quite legal for each of the states in their wisdom to decide they'll allow you or I to select their electors for them. We already have Maine and Nebraska going the congressional district route as opposed to winner-take-all. Plus in 2016 we had 7 electors from other states that took it upon themselves to cast votes not in accordance with their state's vote. I was able to vote back in 1972 only because of the Constitution amendment lowering the voting age to 18. I looked up the amendment this week and saw that while it gave me the right to vote in any election, it did not require the state to actually hold an election.

The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age.
​

Basically I believe you're stuck talking common sense about how things should be. I'm just cautioning that those that wish not to be disenfranchised best be proactive and not assume the courts will handle it.

I'm aware that the Constitution gives states the power to decide how their electors are allocated, but thank you so very much for "helpfully" providing me a long lecture on it anyway.

Perhaps if you had taken a moment to read and think about my post, rather than just kneejerking to "Aha, here's something I can condescend about!" you'd have noticed that my post mentioned voting rights and disenfranchisement. It's almost like THAT was what I was talking about, and not anything at all to do with "They don't have the power to allocate electors!"

Come back when you have response to my post that actually responds to my post.

Excuse me, I just mistakenly gave you credit for understanding that if a state declares they're going to select electors based on the national, not state's, popular vote then nobody is losing their voting rights or being disenfranchised.

If the State declares they're going to select electors based on the national popular vote, but the state's voters had voted for the other candidate, how are they not losing their voting rights and being disenfranchised?

 

[M14 Shooter]

If the State declares they're going to select electors based on the national popular vote, but the state's voters had voted for the other candidate, how are they not losing their voting rights and being disenfranchised?

As long as the Democrat wins, they don't care.
If a state votes 75/25 for the Dem and the Republican got the EVs, they'd scream loud enough to be heard on the moon.

 

[Lesh]

Uh.. which meant they had lower voting populations

They had lower voting populations BECAUSE they were slave states

 

[Ame®icano]

I have a feeling you only think that because YOUR principles are selfish and subjective, and you assume everyone is like you. Don't project.

Okay, maybe I'm wrong.

More than maybe. It's not like Democrats haven't won in recent history, and I have yet to see concerted efforts among Republicans to invalidate and delegitimize those elections. Disagree with and oppose policies, sure. Delegitimize, no.

Nonsense. They tried to delegitimize the 2000 election. As I pointed out, Katherine Harris refused to accept returns filed after a week following the election, even though she didn’t have to. Then there were the mobs of GOP operatives, paid to disrupt the recounts. Hoping to at least stall the recounts if not end them entirely.

There's a difference between opposing the result you wanted, and delegitimizing the election. Katherine Harris followed the law as written, however much it wasn't how you wanted things to be. The GOP also demanded that the law be followed as written, however much it "disrupted" your attempts to make things the way you wanted them.

The mobs were organized and and paid and their goal was to be disruptive. And I agree, Harris followed the law in the sense she had a choice to make and either choice she made would have followed the law. And she chose to disenfranchise voters by not counting their votes because counties were late. I also have no doubt that she would have accepted late returns, which would have been within the guidelines set by law, had it been Bush who was trailing in votes.

Possible, but it's still speculation.

You may complain that her decision was against your interests, but you can't complain that wasn't within the law.

 

[Lesh]

If the State declares they're going to select electors based on the national popular vote, but the state's voters had voted for the other candidate, how are they not losing their voting rights and being disenfranchised?

How are Republicans in blue states not NOW being disenfranchised?

 

[Lesh]

You may complain that her decision was against your interests, but you can't complain that wasn't within the law.

Interesting fall back. You'e defending against an accusation never made.

There are several remedies to this situation. Both very much legal

 

[dblack]

Uh.. which meant they had lower voting populations

They had lower voting populations BECAUSE they were slave states

Uh... I guess you thought you had a point in there somewhere.

 

[Ame®icano]

Republicans don't want the presidential election decided by popular vote because their ideas aren't popular.

Suppressing what the people want is the only way Republicans can maintain power.

You don't know what the popular vote would turn out because we never had one for a Presidential election. Remember during DumBama that we had most of the Governorships across the country not to mention the lead in Congress and eventually the Senate. That in addition to the statewide positions of power that turned Republican.

The idea that Hil-Liar won the popular vote is a stupid one. It's like saying I'm a better poker player than you are even though you won because I formed some great gin rummy hands.

Cute story.

Literally makes no sense.

Hillary won the popular vote because she had more total votes. I know this is difficult for you to understand but you should really try.

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, Hillary didn't win the popular vote.

 

[22lcidw]

It was designed to entice small states to join the Union.

Wrong. Vermont and New Hampshire and Rhode Island were small states. It was designed to entice Virginia and Georgia etc. (NOT small states but rather states in which slave labor made up large parts of their populations) into joining the Union

Perhaps by your rules and agendas we combine states and have say 30 or 40 of them instead of 50. The northeast commies can have the total area of Montana.

 

[Lesh]

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, Hillary didn't win the popular vote.

Um yea...she did...by 3 million votes

 

[dblack]

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, Hillary didn't win the popular vote.

Um yea...she did...by 3 million votes

Here's the question I'd like democracy worshippers to answer. If it had been the other way around, would you be an enthusiastic supporter of Trump? Do the numbers really matter? Do they make a shitty leader a good one, or vice versa? If the majority votes for Hitler - are you down with that?

 

[M14 Shooter]

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, Hillary didn't win the popular vote.

Um yea...she did...by 3 million votes

Most people did not vote for Hillary.

 

[Lesh]

Most people did not vote for Hillary.

And even less for Trump. Hardly the issue

 

[M14 Shooter]

Here's the question I'd like democracy worshippers to answer. If it had been the other way around, would you be an enthusiastic supporter of Trump? Do the numbers really matter? Do they make a shitty leader a good one, or vice versa? If the majority votes for Hitler - are you down with that?

They're only whining because Hillary lost.
They don't realize that if the election were determined by popular vote, Hillary would have STILL lost because the election would have gone to the house.
Imaging the whining after THAT.

 

[RDD_1210]

Right now, the "small voice" carries more weight than it should. I want it to be equal. No one's vote should count more than anyone elses.

Great, how about starting with states that have all electoral votes going to a single candidate.

Agreed, it should be divided up based upon the population and how they vote. Not a winner take all.

Just as soon as California agrees not to count the MILLIONS of illegals as their population.

Illegals can't vote.

And Heroin is illegal...but people still buy it and illegals still seem to influence our elections.

No, they don't. You have zero proof of that.

 

[RDD_1210]

Republicans don't want the presidential election decided by popular vote because their ideas aren't popular.

Suppressing what the people want is the only way Republicans can maintain power.

You don't know what the popular vote would turn out because we never had one for a Presidential election. Remember during DumBama that we had most of the Governorships across the country not to mention the lead in Congress and eventually the Senate. That in addition to the statewide positions of power that turned Republican.

The idea that Hil-Liar won the popular vote is a stupid one. It's like saying I'm a better poker player than you are even though you won because I formed some great gin rummy hands.

Cute story.

Literally makes no sense.

Hillary won the popular vote because she had more total votes. I know this is difficult for you to understand but you should really try.

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, Hillary didn't win the popular vote.

Hillary won the popular vote.

 

[Lesh]

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, Hillary didn't win the popular vote.

Um yea...she did...by 3 million votes

Here's the question I'd like democracy worshippers to answer. If it had been the other way around, would you be an enthusiastic supporter of Trump? Do the numbers really matter? Do they make a shitty leader a good one, or vice versa? If the majority votes for Hitler - are you down with that?

When Dems win the Presidency that win both the popular vote AND the EC...when Republicans win they squeak out an EC win

 

[dblack]

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat it, Hillary didn't win the popular vote.

Um yea...she did...by 3 million votes

Here's the question I'd like democracy worshippers to answer. If it had been the other way around, would you be an enthusiastic supporter of Trump? Do the numbers really matter? Do they make a shitty leader a good one, or vice versa? If the majority votes for Hitler - are you down with that?

When Dems win the Presidency that win both the popular vote AND the EC...when Republicans win they squeak out an EC win

So what?

 

[M14 Shooter]

When Dems win the Presidency that win both the popular vote AND the EC...when Republicans win they squeak out an EC win

Your bigoted, hyper-partisan opinion is not supported by fact.

 

[Ame®icano]

Why? That's the point. All votes are equal in a popular vote.

Na, not really
All of the people in the red areas would be displaced by just a few blue counties...
That is why this is supposed to be a republic not a shit eating democracy

You're clearly confused.

Maybe ask your grandson to explain it to you.

Well, why don’t you change it? You do know what it takes to change an amendment?

I think voters who voted in Tlaib and Omar and AOC are idiots. May I vote against them?

Which of those states do you love in?

Didn't you just said HERE that states don't matter?