EPA Wants Gov't To Control How Cold Your Beer Can Be

[thereisnospoon]

What fear mongering about power plants?

Coal fired plants are EVIL....Cut the crap. The Obama admin and their trainees( like you) have declared a war on coal.
Tell us genius, how will you charge your electric car batteries?

Crap?

If conservatives really want clean air, water, and unpolluted soil/food supply/environment', why are Republicans trying to scrap EPA coal plant regulations?

Burning coal is a leading cause of smog, acid rain, and toxic air pollution. Some emissions can be significantly reduced with readily available pollution controls, but most U.S. coal plants have not installed these technologies.

Burning coal creates harmful pollution

The process of burning coal releases chemicals into the atmosphere that threaten not only the air Americans breathe, but the water they drink, the soil they live on and the food they eat. EPA classifies many of these chemicals as “hazardous air pollutants” or “air toxics,” a category that means they are known or reasonably expected to harm human health or the environment or both.

Hazardous air pollutants from coal-fired power plants include:
• Acid gases, such as hydrogen chloride and hydrogen fluoride;
• Benzene, toluene and other compounds;
• Dioxins and furans;
• Formaldehyde;
• Lead, arsenic, and other metals;
• Mercury;
• Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (PAH); and
• Radioactive materials, like radium and uranium.2,3

Researchers have found these toxic emissions cause a dangerous array of harm to human health as shown in Table 1.3 These emissions can make breathing difficult and can worsen asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, bronchitis and other lung diseases. These pollutants can cause heart attacks and strokes, lung cancer and other cancers, birth defects and premature death.

These pollutants threaten essential life systems. Acid gases are corrosive and can irritate and burn the eyes, skin, and breathing passages. Long term exposures to metals have the potential to harm the kidneys, lungs, and nervous system. Exposures to a handful of the metals and dioxins in coal-fired power plant emissions increase the risk of cancer. Specific forms of arsenic, beryllium, chromium, and nickel have been shown to cause cancer in both human and animal studies. Table 1 also identifies those pollutants that have long-term impacts on the environment because they accumulate in soil, water and fish.3

Coal-fired power plants supplying electricity to the grid are the biggest emitters of airborne mercury among all industrial sources. The pair of maps on page 4 shows the locations of coal-fired power plants and how they can lead to high mercury levels in the local and regional areas.4,5 Mercury is associated with damage to the kidneys, liver, brain, nervous system and can cause birth defects

Ok....In what quantities? Show the number of affected and deceased due to these substances which can be directly attributed to coal fired power plants.
Then explain the billions of dollars in pollution control devices that power companies have installed at their plants.
Question: Do you believe that the human condition should be free of ALL risk?
Here are examples of how the EPA moves the goal posts in order to remain relevant and to maintain power.
In other words the EPA continually LOWERS the amount of ozone and other pollutant limits in order to ensure cities that are not compliant, remain non compliant.
http://www.epa.state.oh.us/portals/27/SIP/Nonattain/Toledo_Ozone_Redesig_Rev_DRAFT.pdf
Ozone Air Quality Standards: EPA?s Assault on Jobs and the Economy
http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/2011/pdf/wm3330.pdf
http://thehayride.com/2010/11/tightening-ozone-standards-another-epa-assault-on-louisiana/
Shopfloor | A Manufacturing Blog Reporting on Manufacturing Policy and Politics

 

[thereisnospoon]

How a 'smart grid' would work and how it would not 'Control How Cold Your Beer Can Be'

The current grid is CONTROLLED by human beings working at numerous CONTROL centers.

Power systems coordinators Boykin Elliott (front center) and Ronny Maxwell (rear right)
monitor the network power grid in metro Atlanta at the Georgia Transmission
Control Center at Georgia Power. Heath Bridges (rear left) is with the Conyers
TMC (Transmission Maintenance Center) and is job shadowing Elliott and Maxwell.

Instead of simply adjusting the supply of electricity in response to the vagaries of unpredictable demand, a smart grid would constantly adjust demand as well. When demand hits a peak, for example, the grid might start cutting power for household refrigerators, office air-conditioning systems and other non-urgent uses — just for a moment in each case, and nothing that anyone would notice, but enough to smooth out variations in the overall load.

the basic idea is to arbitrarily limit demand.......not increase supply......

and this fits into our democratic capitalist country of individual rights and free enterprise how....?

NO, the idea is to balance supply and demand instantly. The current manual control is arbitrary and requires predicting. When they are wrong an outage occurs.

The smart grid would be infused with intelligent sensors and controls, automated smart switches and substations, robust communications and other technologies, the smart grid will be able to integrate all types of electric generation and storage systems, preclude power outages and surges to a degree not possible now, predict problems before they occur, and automatically heal itself if problems do happen.

Energy flow in the power grid was designed as a one-way process - from centralized generation to end users (at least in the U.S.). Distributed renewable energy sources introduce the need for a two-way power flow, which contributes to difficulties in maintaining voltage along radial feeders.

The power grid was designed in an era when one or two changes to the grid per day were common. Renewable energy with intermittent generation necessitates a change in grid operations every few minutes.

Benefits of a smarter grid

The operation of the power grid has become so complex over the past 50 years that human control is becoming ineffective. The interconnected grid means a disturbance hundreds of miles away can have catastrophic effects on a local system.

With less centralized control, the need for communications and coordination has become crucial. Sensors and other devices are overwhelming utilities and grid operators with vastly greater amounts of data. Therefore, automated, intelligent, real-time response to grid operations and power events will be required.

However, with smart technologies comes the promise of a more reliable and efficient power grid. Utilities will be able to better manage costs because they will be able to discern many problems before they occur, allowing equipment to be replaced or repaired before problems arise.

In addition, actual problems can be isolated before they cause further damage to the grid, and self-healing capabilities will require fewer personnel dispatches to fix problems. The smart grid will also offer enhanced cybersecurity because it continually monitors itself to detect problems and unsafe conditions.

Society as a whole will experience fewer and shorter power outages, brownouts and other power problems - resulting in less downtime and fewer economic losses.

In summary, the power grid of yesteryear has developed into a very complex system that is now in danger of becoming unable to provide the high-quality, reliable power needed for the economic growth of a high-tech society.

This is a typical reverse logic idea. Instead of building a more reliable grid, government proposes to limit use of the present grid. Because GOD FORBID we build anything that will help meet the "economic needs of a high tech society".
What a bunch of crap....

 

[Bfgrn]

the basic idea is to arbitrarily limit demand.......not increase supply......

and this fits into our democratic capitalist country of individual rights and free enterprise how....?

NO, the idea is to balance supply and demand instantly. The current manual control is arbitrary and requires predicting. When they are wrong an outage occurs.

The smart grid would be infused with intelligent sensors and controls, automated smart switches and substations, robust communications and other technologies, the smart grid will be able to integrate all types of electric generation and storage systems, preclude power outages and surges to a degree not possible now, predict problems before they occur, and automatically heal itself if problems do happen.

Energy flow in the power grid was designed as a one-way process - from centralized generation to end users (at least in the U.S.). Distributed renewable energy sources introduce the need for a two-way power flow, which contributes to difficulties in maintaining voltage along radial feeders.

The power grid was designed in an era when one or two changes to the grid per day were common. Renewable energy with intermittent generation necessitates a change in grid operations every few minutes.

Benefits of a smarter grid

The operation of the power grid has become so complex over the past 50 years that human control is becoming ineffective. The interconnected grid means a disturbance hundreds of miles away can have catastrophic effects on a local system.

With less centralized control, the need for communications and coordination has become crucial. Sensors and other devices are overwhelming utilities and grid operators with vastly greater amounts of data. Therefore, automated, intelligent, real-time response to grid operations and power events will be required.

However, with smart technologies comes the promise of a more reliable and efficient power grid. Utilities will be able to better manage costs because they will be able to discern many problems before they occur, allowing equipment to be replaced or repaired before problems arise.

In addition, actual problems can be isolated before they cause further damage to the grid, and self-healing capabilities will require fewer personnel dispatches to fix problems. The smart grid will also offer enhanced cybersecurity because it continually monitors itself to detect problems and unsafe conditions.

Society as a whole will experience fewer and shorter power outages, brownouts and other power problems - resulting in less downtime and fewer economic losses.

In summary, the power grid of yesteryear has developed into a very complex system that is now in danger of becoming unable to provide the high-quality, reliable power needed for the economic growth of a high-tech society.

This is a typical reverse logic idea. Instead of building a more reliable grid, government proposes to limit use of the present grid. Because GOD FORBID we build anything that will help meet the "economic needs of a high tech society".
What a bunch of crap....

The only thing limited here is your cognitive ability. The WHOLE IDEA of a smart grid is to provide MORE power carrying ability, MORE reliability, MORE communication ability and MORE flexibility. The current antiquated grid is a ONE WAY system, you can only BUY power. With a two way system it would allow you to SELL YOUR electricity. Every home, farm and business in America would become a power station.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

NO, the idea is to balance supply and demand instantly. The current manual control is arbitrary and requires predicting. When they are wrong an outage occurs.

The smart grid would be infused with intelligent sensors and controls, automated smart switches and substations, robust communications and other technologies, the smart grid will be able to integrate all types of electric generation and storage systems, preclude power outages and surges to a degree not possible now, predict problems before they occur, and automatically heal itself if problems do happen.

Energy flow in the power grid was designed as a one-way process - from centralized generation to end users (at least in the U.S.). Distributed renewable energy sources introduce the need for a two-way power flow, which contributes to difficulties in maintaining voltage along radial feeders.

The power grid was designed in an era when one or two changes to the grid per day were common. Renewable energy with intermittent generation necessitates a change in grid operations every few minutes.

Benefits of a smarter grid

The operation of the power grid has become so complex over the past 50 years that human control is becoming ineffective. The interconnected grid means a disturbance hundreds of miles away can have catastrophic effects on a local system.

With less centralized control, the need for communications and coordination has become crucial. Sensors and other devices are overwhelming utilities and grid operators with vastly greater amounts of data. Therefore, automated, intelligent, real-time response to grid operations and power events will be required.

However, with smart technologies comes the promise of a more reliable and efficient power grid. Utilities will be able to better manage costs because they will be able to discern many problems before they occur, allowing equipment to be replaced or repaired before problems arise.

In addition, actual problems can be isolated before they cause further damage to the grid, and self-healing capabilities will require fewer personnel dispatches to fix problems. The smart grid will also offer enhanced cybersecurity because it continually monitors itself to detect problems and unsafe conditions.

Society as a whole will experience fewer and shorter power outages, brownouts and other power problems - resulting in less downtime and fewer economic losses.

In summary, the power grid of yesteryear has developed into a very complex system that is now in danger of becoming unable to provide the high-quality, reliable power needed for the economic growth of a high-tech society.

This is a typical reverse logic idea. Instead of building a more reliable grid, government proposes to limit use of the present grid. Because GOD FORBID we build anything that will help meet the "economic needs of a high tech society".
What a bunch of crap....

The only thing limited here is your cognitive ability. The WHOLE IDEA of a smart grid is to provide MORE power carrying ability, MORE reliability, MORE communication ability and MORE flexibility. The current antiquated grid is a ONE WAY system, you can only BUY power. With a two way system it would allow you to SELL YOUR electricity. Every home, farm and business in America would become a power station.

That's preposterous... how does one sell something they do not generate but purchase?

 

[OKTexas]

NO, the idea is to balance supply and demand instantly. The current manual control is arbitrary and requires predicting. When they are wrong an outage occurs.

The smart grid would be infused with intelligent sensors and controls, automated smart switches and substations, robust communications and other technologies, the smart grid will be able to integrate all types of electric generation and storage systems, preclude power outages and surges to a degree not possible now, predict problems before they occur, and automatically heal itself if problems do happen.

Energy flow in the power grid was designed as a one-way process - from centralized generation to end users (at least in the U.S.). Distributed renewable energy sources introduce the need for a two-way power flow, which contributes to difficulties in maintaining voltage along radial feeders.

The power grid was designed in an era when one or two changes to the grid per day were common. Renewable energy with intermittent generation necessitates a change in grid operations every few minutes.

Benefits of a smarter grid

The operation of the power grid has become so complex over the past 50 years that human control is becoming ineffective. The interconnected grid means a disturbance hundreds of miles away can have catastrophic effects on a local system.

With less centralized control, the need for communications and coordination has become crucial. Sensors and other devices are overwhelming utilities and grid operators with vastly greater amounts of data. Therefore, automated, intelligent, real-time response to grid operations and power events will be required.

However, with smart technologies comes the promise of a more reliable and efficient power grid. Utilities will be able to better manage costs because they will be able to discern many problems before they occur, allowing equipment to be replaced or repaired before problems arise.

In addition, actual problems can be isolated before they cause further damage to the grid, and self-healing capabilities will require fewer personnel dispatches to fix problems. The smart grid will also offer enhanced cybersecurity because it continually monitors itself to detect problems and unsafe conditions.

Society as a whole will experience fewer and shorter power outages, brownouts and other power problems - resulting in less downtime and fewer economic losses.

In summary, the power grid of yesteryear has developed into a very complex system that is now in danger of becoming unable to provide the high-quality, reliable power needed for the economic growth of a high-tech society.

This is a typical reverse logic idea. Instead of building a more reliable grid, government proposes to limit use of the present grid. Because GOD FORBID we build anything that will help meet the "economic needs of a high tech society".
What a bunch of crap....

The only thing limited here is your cognitive ability. The WHOLE IDEA of a smart grid is to provide MORE power carrying ability, MORE reliability, MORE communication ability and MORE flexibility. The current antiquated grid is a ONE WAY system, you can only BUY power. With a two way system it would allow you to SELL YOUR electricity. Every home, farm and business in America would become a power station.

First a home, farm or business has to have excess generating capacity before they can sell anything, that is not inexpensive. Second the equipment needed to balance the grid is not required at the consumer level, it can be done at mid-line positions and be just as effective, but then it wouldn't give the ability to control the individual consumer and that is the point of the smart grid.

 

[thereisnospoon]

NO, the idea is to balance supply and demand instantly. The current manual control is arbitrary and requires predicting. When they are wrong an outage occurs.

The smart grid would be infused with intelligent sensors and controls, automated smart switches and substations, robust communications and other technologies, the smart grid will be able to integrate all types of electric generation and storage systems, preclude power outages and surges to a degree not possible now, predict problems before they occur, and automatically heal itself if problems do happen.

Energy flow in the power grid was designed as a one-way process - from centralized generation to end users (at least in the U.S.). Distributed renewable energy sources introduce the need for a two-way power flow, which contributes to difficulties in maintaining voltage along radial feeders.

The power grid was designed in an era when one or two changes to the grid per day were common. Renewable energy with intermittent generation necessitates a change in grid operations every few minutes.

Benefits of a smarter grid

The operation of the power grid has become so complex over the past 50 years that human control is becoming ineffective. The interconnected grid means a disturbance hundreds of miles away can have catastrophic effects on a local system.

With less centralized control, the need for communications and coordination has become crucial. Sensors and other devices are overwhelming utilities and grid operators with vastly greater amounts of data. Therefore, automated, intelligent, real-time response to grid operations and power events will be required.

However, with smart technologies comes the promise of a more reliable and efficient power grid. Utilities will be able to better manage costs because they will be able to discern many problems before they occur, allowing equipment to be replaced or repaired before problems arise.

In addition, actual problems can be isolated before they cause further damage to the grid, and self-healing capabilities will require fewer personnel dispatches to fix problems. The smart grid will also offer enhanced cybersecurity because it continually monitors itself to detect problems and unsafe conditions.

Society as a whole will experience fewer and shorter power outages, brownouts and other power problems - resulting in less downtime and fewer economic losses.

In summary, the power grid of yesteryear has developed into a very complex system that is now in danger of becoming unable to provide the high-quality, reliable power needed for the economic growth of a high-tech society.

This is a typical reverse logic idea. Instead of building a more reliable grid, government proposes to limit use of the present grid. Because GOD FORBID we build anything that will help meet the "economic needs of a high tech society".
What a bunch of crap....

The only thing limited here is your cognitive ability. The WHOLE IDEA of a smart grid is to provide MORE power carrying ability, MORE reliability, MORE communication ability and MORE flexibility. The current antiquated grid is a ONE WAY system, you can only BUY power. With a two way system it would allow you to SELL YOUR electricity. Every home, farm and business in America would become a power station.

You are arguing just to argue. You are demanding I relent to your position. Not happening.

Smart grid DOES NOT make the current system more efficient. The smart grid concept id based on involuntary limiting of use. It does nothing to advance the power grid technology.
Your idea, the ability to sell power to others is false. An electrical power customer cannot 'sell' that which does not belong to him.
The only way this could work( not stipulating that it ever could) would be to pay for electricity BEFORE using it.
The way to efficiently use and transmit electricity would be to modernize the existing system.
Of course the environmental faction will not allow this.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This is a typical reverse logic idea. Instead of building a more reliable grid, government proposes to limit use of the present grid. Because GOD FORBID we build anything that will help meet the "economic needs of a high tech society".
What a bunch of crap....

The only thing limited here is your cognitive ability. The WHOLE IDEA of a smart grid is to provide MORE power carrying ability, MORE reliability, MORE communication ability and MORE flexibility. The current antiquated grid is a ONE WAY system, you can only BUY power. With a two way system it would allow you to SELL YOUR electricity. Every home, farm and business in America would become a power station.

That's preposterous... how does one sell something they do not generate but purchase?

Massive capacitors combined with the ability to transmit the power back through the grid.
Capacitors filled with cooling oil. Oil containing polychlorobiphenyls.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

How a 'smart grid' would work and how it would not 'Control How Cold Your Beer Can Be'

The current grid is CONTROLLED by human beings working at numerous CONTROL centers.

Power systems coordinators Boykin Elliott (front center) and Ronny Maxwell (rear right)
monitor the network power grid in metro Atlanta at the Georgia Transmission
Control Center at Georgia Power. Heath Bridges (rear left) is with the Conyers
TMC (Transmission Maintenance Center) and is job shadowing Elliott and Maxwell.

Instead of simply adjusting the supply of electricity in response to the vagaries of unpredictable demand, a smart grid would constantly adjust demand as well. When demand hits a peak, for example, the grid might start cutting power for household refrigerators, office air-conditioning systems and other non-urgent uses — just for a moment in each case, and nothing that anyone would notice, but enough to smooth out variations in the overall load.

the basic idea is to arbitrarily limit demand.......not increase supply......

and this fits into our democratic capitalist country of individual rights and free enterprise how....?

NO, the idea is to balance supply and demand instantly. The current manual control is arbitrary and requires predicting. When they are wrong an outage occurs.

The smart grid would be infused with intelligent sensors and controls, automated smart switches and substations, robust communications and other technologies, the smart grid will be able to integrate all types of electric generation and storage systems, preclude power outages and surges to a degree not possible now, predict problems before they occur, and automatically heal itself if problems do happen.

Energy flow in the power grid was designed as a one-way process - from centralized generation to end users (at least in the U.S.). Distributed renewable energy sources introduce the need for a two-way power flow, which contributes to difficulties in maintaining voltage along radial feeders.

The power grid was designed in an era when one or two changes to the grid per day were common. Renewable energy with intermittent generation necessitates a change in grid operations every few minutes.

Benefits of a smarter grid

The operation of the power grid has become so complex over the past 50 years that human control is becoming ineffective. The interconnected grid means a disturbance hundreds of miles away can have catastrophic effects on a local system.

With less centralized control, the need for communications and coordination has become crucial. Sensors and other devices are overwhelming utilities and grid operators with vastly greater amounts of data. Therefore, automated, intelligent, real-time response to grid operations and power events will be required.

However, with smart technologies comes the promise of a more reliable and efficient power grid. Utilities will be able to better manage costs because they will be able to discern many problems before they occur, allowing equipment to be replaced or repaired before problems arise.

In addition, actual problems can be isolated before they cause further damage to the grid, and self-healing capabilities will require fewer personnel dispatches to fix problems. The smart grid will also offer enhanced cybersecurity because it continually monitors itself to detect problems and unsafe conditions.

Society as a whole will experience fewer and shorter power outages, brownouts and other power problems - resulting in less downtime and fewer economic losses.

In summary, the power grid of yesteryear has developed into a very complex system that is now in danger of becoming unable to provide the high-quality, reliable power needed for the economic growth of a high-tech society.

i have no problem with utility companies improving their systems even though i think they are making our systems even more vulnerable to attack.......HOWEVER when it comes to "smart meters"......i have a BIG problem.....

this is simply an invasion into the privacy of all Americans....and it comes as a result of international plans for what the lefties call "Sustainable Development".....all part of the 'transformation' of society masked as 'green' technology....which bottom line is nothing more than top-down control of individuals...

they are planning to not only use 'smart meters' just for electricity but for all your utilities...

There are several major problems for homeowners as the Smart Meters are installed. Here are just a few:

• The cost of heating and cooling homes with Smart Meters is going up because of the inefficient alternative energy that is more expensive than coal and nuclear power.

• Homeowners with Smart Meters in place are discovering that they can’t heat or cool their homes during peak power usage as the electric companies control the thermostats and automatically cut back on usage.

• Property rights are being violated by Smart Meter installers who come onto property against the will of the owners.

• A 2012 Congressional Report now reveals that power companies are able to read data from the meters that reveals residents’ daily schedules and their personal behavior, the types of appliances they use, even if there are certain types of medical equipment in use in the home. This information can then be sold to private concerns or placed in government files. It can lead to identity theft and unwarranted government surveillance.

• Evidence is now emerging that the Smart Meters, which operate by emitting electromagnetic signals, have become a health hazard, as thousands of Smart Meters in neighborhoods blast a non-stop signal, creating what is called Electromagnetic Smog. The electromagnetic radiation is dangerous for the elderly, children, pets, and those subject to such disorders as epilepsy, heart disease, and more. It can lead to disruptive sleep patterns, chronic fatigue, depression, headaches, and much more.

As Americans become aware of these threats they have begun to oppose the installation of Smart Meters on their property. Some local and state governments, when faced with the health complaints, have offered opt-out provisions. Others have responded using force, resulting in arrests, as in Naperville, Illinois. In other places, power companies have shut off electricity to homes of those protesting the Smart Meters.

As the battle against the Smart Meters grows across the nation, Americans need to understand the issue, the dangers, and the real reasons behind the government’s drive to force them on angry and protesting homeowners, violating their property rights and endangering their health in the process.

Smart Meters are designed to provide government with detailed information on your energy use, your movements in your home, the way you use your personal private time, and even how many people are in your home at any given time. It is an unconstitutional invasion of your home by government, as set down in the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

The Growing Threat of Smart Meters

 

[Bfgrn]

the basic idea is to arbitrarily limit demand.......not increase supply......

and this fits into our democratic capitalist country of individual rights and free enterprise how....?

NO, the idea is to balance supply and demand instantly. The current manual control is arbitrary and requires predicting. When they are wrong an outage occurs.

The smart grid would be infused with intelligent sensors and controls, automated smart switches and substations, robust communications and other technologies, the smart grid will be able to integrate all types of electric generation and storage systems, preclude power outages and surges to a degree not possible now, predict problems before they occur, and automatically heal itself if problems do happen.

Energy flow in the power grid was designed as a one-way process - from centralized generation to end users (at least in the U.S.). Distributed renewable energy sources introduce the need for a two-way power flow, which contributes to difficulties in maintaining voltage along radial feeders.

The power grid was designed in an era when one or two changes to the grid per day were common. Renewable energy with intermittent generation necessitates a change in grid operations every few minutes.

Benefits of a smarter grid

The operation of the power grid has become so complex over the past 50 years that human control is becoming ineffective. The interconnected grid means a disturbance hundreds of miles away can have catastrophic effects on a local system.

With less centralized control, the need for communications and coordination has become crucial. Sensors and other devices are overwhelming utilities and grid operators with vastly greater amounts of data. Therefore, automated, intelligent, real-time response to grid operations and power events will be required.

However, with smart technologies comes the promise of a more reliable and efficient power grid. Utilities will be able to better manage costs because they will be able to discern many problems before they occur, allowing equipment to be replaced or repaired before problems arise.

In addition, actual problems can be isolated before they cause further damage to the grid, and self-healing capabilities will require fewer personnel dispatches to fix problems. The smart grid will also offer enhanced cybersecurity because it continually monitors itself to detect problems and unsafe conditions.

Society as a whole will experience fewer and shorter power outages, brownouts and other power problems - resulting in less downtime and fewer economic losses.

In summary, the power grid of yesteryear has developed into a very complex system that is now in danger of becoming unable to provide the high-quality, reliable power needed for the economic growth of a high-tech society.

i have no problem with utility companies improving their systems even though i think they are making our systems even more vulnerable to attack.......HOWEVER when it comes to "smart meters"......i have a BIG problem.....

this is simply an invasion into the privacy of all Americans....and it comes as a result of international plans for what the lefties call "Sustainable Development".....all part of the 'transformation' of society masked as 'green' technology....which bottom line is nothing more than top-down control of individuals...

they are planning to not only use 'smart meters' just for electricity but for all your utilities...

There are several major problems for homeowners as the Smart Meters are installed. Here are just a few:

• The cost of heating and cooling homes with Smart Meters is going up because of the inefficient alternative energy that is more expensive than coal and nuclear power.

• Homeowners with Smart Meters in place are discovering that they can’t heat or cool their homes during peak power usage as the electric companies control the thermostats and automatically cut back on usage.

• Property rights are being violated by Smart Meter installers who come onto property against the will of the owners.

• A 2012 Congressional Report now reveals that power companies are able to read data from the meters that reveals residents’ daily schedules and their personal behavior, the types of appliances they use, even if there are certain types of medical equipment in use in the home. This information can then be sold to private concerns or placed in government files. It can lead to identity theft and unwarranted government surveillance.

• Evidence is now emerging that the Smart Meters, which operate by emitting electromagnetic signals, have become a health hazard, as thousands of Smart Meters in neighborhoods blast a non-stop signal, creating what is called Electromagnetic Smog. The electromagnetic radiation is dangerous for the elderly, children, pets, and those subject to such disorders as epilepsy, heart disease, and more. It can lead to disruptive sleep patterns, chronic fatigue, depression, headaches, and much more.

As Americans become aware of these threats they have begun to oppose the installation of Smart Meters on their property. Some local and state governments, when faced with the health complaints, have offered opt-out provisions. Others have responded using force, resulting in arrests, as in Naperville, Illinois. In other places, power companies have shut off electricity to homes of those protesting the Smart Meters.

As the battle against the Smart Meters grows across the nation, Americans need to understand the issue, the dangers, and the real reasons behind the government’s drive to force them on angry and protesting homeowners, violating their property rights and endangering their health in the process.

Smart Meters are designed to provide government with detailed information on your energy use, your movements in your home, the way you use your personal private time, and even how many people are in your home at any given time. It is an unconstitutional invasion of your home by government, as set down in the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

The Growing Threat of Smart Meters

This guy is a full blown wing nut. You folks are beyond help. You need to see a psychiatrist.

Tom DeWeese appears to be a right-wing, anti-globalist, isolationist, anti-environment nut. In his rants which range from fighting environmental movements (because they are really part of a plot to redistribute power and wealth away from the United States) to paganism in Sunday School (which is based on a minor program used by some schools which involve touching trees while blindfolded to learn more about identifying and recognizing things using senses other than sight, as well as learning about interacting with nature), Mr. DeWeese even goes so far as to suggest it is wrong to teach children to pick up litter... He is one of many examples of how ignorant people gain media influence primarily through the Internet. He is also appears to have financial ties to Phillip Morris through his organization, The American Policy Center, which publishes, among other things, the questionably EPA Watch newsletter.

You have just entered the paranoid zone.

 

[Bfgrn]

This is a typical reverse logic idea. Instead of building a more reliable grid, government proposes to limit use of the present grid. Because GOD FORBID we build anything that will help meet the "economic needs of a high tech society".
What a bunch of crap....

The only thing limited here is your cognitive ability. The WHOLE IDEA of a smart grid is to provide MORE power carrying ability, MORE reliability, MORE communication ability and MORE flexibility. The current antiquated grid is a ONE WAY system, you can only BUY power. With a two way system it would allow you to SELL YOUR electricity. Every home, farm and business in America would become a power station.

You are arguing just to argue. You are demanding I relent to your position. Not happening.

Smart grid DOES NOT make the current system more efficient. The smart grid concept id based on involuntary limiting of use. It does nothing to advance the power grid technology.
Your idea, the ability to sell power to others is false. An electrical power customer cannot 'sell' that which does not belong to him.
The only way this could work( not stipulating that it ever could) would be to pay for electricity BEFORE using it.
The way to efficiently use and transmit electricity would be to modernize the existing system.
Of course the environmental faction will not allow this.

Here is just how 'scary' this stuff is. Here is what far leftist communist communities are doing...it is REALLY scary.

'Smart grid' technology gives you power over your power costs

Imagine you could log on to the Internet to find out how much power you used this week.

If you have one of Idaho Power's new smart meters, you already can.

And what if you could pay less to wash your dishes or dry your clothes by simply doing them at a different time of day?

If you live in Emmett, you already can. The Public Utilities Commission pushed Idaho Power to install the new meters there in 2004 and since 2005 the company has offered three different rates there for different times of the day and the week to help people reduce their own bills and the utilities' demand for power at peak times.

These are the first steps Idaho Power has taken to move it toward the potential savings and efficiency offered by so-called "smart grid" technology. Thanks to a $47 million stimulus grant from the Obama administration's Department of Energy, all of Idaho Power's customers will have similar tools for reducing their power bills by 2012.

"This is giving you as a customer more control over your rate," said Theresa Drake, Idaho Power's manager for customer relations and energy efficiency.

As technology evolves, the smart grid will allow people to store and sell power in their electric car batteries or personal solar and wind generators.

 

[thereisnospoon]

NO, the idea is to balance supply and demand instantly. The current manual control is arbitrary and requires predicting. When they are wrong an outage occurs.

The smart grid would be infused with intelligent sensors and controls, automated smart switches and substations, robust communications and other technologies, the smart grid will be able to integrate all types of electric generation and storage systems, preclude power outages and surges to a degree not possible now, predict problems before they occur, and automatically heal itself if problems do happen.

Energy flow in the power grid was designed as a one-way process - from centralized generation to end users (at least in the U.S.). Distributed renewable energy sources introduce the need for a two-way power flow, which contributes to difficulties in maintaining voltage along radial feeders.

The power grid was designed in an era when one or two changes to the grid per day were common. Renewable energy with intermittent generation necessitates a change in grid operations every few minutes.

Benefits of a smarter grid

The operation of the power grid has become so complex over the past 50 years that human control is becoming ineffective. The interconnected grid means a disturbance hundreds of miles away can have catastrophic effects on a local system.

With less centralized control, the need for communications and coordination has become crucial. Sensors and other devices are overwhelming utilities and grid operators with vastly greater amounts of data. Therefore, automated, intelligent, real-time response to grid operations and power events will be required.

However, with smart technologies comes the promise of a more reliable and efficient power grid. Utilities will be able to better manage costs because they will be able to discern many problems before they occur, allowing equipment to be replaced or repaired before problems arise.

In addition, actual problems can be isolated before they cause further damage to the grid, and self-healing capabilities will require fewer personnel dispatches to fix problems. The smart grid will also offer enhanced cybersecurity because it continually monitors itself to detect problems and unsafe conditions.

Society as a whole will experience fewer and shorter power outages, brownouts and other power problems - resulting in less downtime and fewer economic losses.

In summary, the power grid of yesteryear has developed into a very complex system that is now in danger of becoming unable to provide the high-quality, reliable power needed for the economic growth of a high-tech society.

i have no problem with utility companies improving their systems even though i think they are making our systems even more vulnerable to attack.......HOWEVER when it comes to "smart meters"......i have a BIG problem.....

this is simply an invasion into the privacy of all Americans....and it comes as a result of international plans for what the lefties call "Sustainable Development".....all part of the 'transformation' of society masked as 'green' technology....which bottom line is nothing more than top-down control of individuals...

they are planning to not only use 'smart meters' just for electricity but for all your utilities...

There are several major problems for homeowners as the Smart Meters are installed. Here are just a few:

• The cost of heating and cooling homes with Smart Meters is going up because of the inefficient alternative energy that is more expensive than coal and nuclear power.

• Homeowners with Smart Meters in place are discovering that they can’t heat or cool their homes during peak power usage as the electric companies control the thermostats and automatically cut back on usage.

• Property rights are being violated by Smart Meter installers who come onto property against the will of the owners.

• A 2012 Congressional Report now reveals that power companies are able to read data from the meters that reveals residents’ daily schedules and their personal behavior, the types of appliances they use, even if there are certain types of medical equipment in use in the home. This information can then be sold to private concerns or placed in government files. It can lead to identity theft and unwarranted government surveillance.

• Evidence is now emerging that the Smart Meters, which operate by emitting electromagnetic signals, have become a health hazard, as thousands of Smart Meters in neighborhoods blast a non-stop signal, creating what is called Electromagnetic Smog. The electromagnetic radiation is dangerous for the elderly, children, pets, and those subject to such disorders as epilepsy, heart disease, and more. It can lead to disruptive sleep patterns, chronic fatigue, depression, headaches, and much more.

As Americans become aware of these threats they have begun to oppose the installation of Smart Meters on their property. Some local and state governments, when faced with the health complaints, have offered opt-out provisions. Others have responded using force, resulting in arrests, as in Naperville, Illinois. In other places, power companies have shut off electricity to homes of those protesting the Smart Meters.

As the battle against the Smart Meters grows across the nation, Americans need to understand the issue, the dangers, and the real reasons behind the government’s drive to force them on angry and protesting homeowners, violating their property rights and endangering their health in the process.

Smart Meters are designed to provide government with detailed information on your energy use, your movements in your home, the way you use your personal private time, and even how many people are in your home at any given time. It is an unconstitutional invasion of your home by government, as set down in the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

The Growing Threat of Smart Meters

This guy is a full blown wing nut. You folks are beyond help. You need to see a psychiatrist.

Tom DeWeese appears to be a right-wing, anti-globalist, isolationist, anti-environment nut. In his rants which range from fighting environmental movements (because they are really part of a plot to redistribute power and wealth away from the United States) to paganism in Sunday School (which is based on a minor program used by some schools which involve touching trees while blindfolded to learn more about identifying and recognizing things using senses other than sight, as well as learning about interacting with nature), Mr. DeWeese even goes so far as to suggest it is wrong to teach children to pick up litter... He is one of many examples of how ignorant people gain media influence primarily through the Internet. He is also appears to have financial ties to Phillip Morris through his organization, The American Policy Center, which publishes, among other things, the questionably EPA Watch newsletter.

You have just entered the paranoid zone.

You should run for office as a democrat.
Your post is a perfect representation of how the democrat party runs campaigns.
They make up all kinds of accusations and innuendos that force their opponent to defend the name calling rather than debate the issues. Issues the democrat fears.
Nice try..
Your smart grid idea is DUMB.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The only thing limited here is your cognitive ability. The WHOLE IDEA of a smart grid is to provide MORE power carrying ability, MORE reliability, MORE communication ability and MORE flexibility. The current antiquated grid is a ONE WAY system, you can only BUY power. With a two way system it would allow you to SELL YOUR electricity. Every home, farm and business in America would become a power station.

You are arguing just to argue. You are demanding I relent to your position. Not happening.

Smart grid DOES NOT make the current system more efficient. The smart grid concept id based on involuntary limiting of use. It does nothing to advance the power grid technology.
Your idea, the ability to sell power to others is false. An electrical power customer cannot 'sell' that which does not belong to him.
The only way this could work( not stipulating that it ever could) would be to pay for electricity BEFORE using it.
The way to efficiently use and transmit electricity would be to modernize the existing system.
Of course the environmental faction will not allow this.

Here is just how 'scary' this stuff is. Here is what far leftist communist communities are doing...it is REALLY scary.

'Smart grid' technology gives you power over your power costs

Imagine you could log on to the Internet to find out how much power you used this week.

If you have one of Idaho Power's new smart meters, you already can.

And what if you could pay less to wash your dishes or dry your clothes by simply doing them at a different time of day?

If you live in Emmett, you already can. The Public Utilities Commission pushed Idaho Power to install the new meters there in 2004 and since 2005 the company has offered three different rates there for different times of the day and the week to help people reduce their own bills and the utilities' demand for power at peak times.

These are the first steps Idaho Power has taken to move it toward the potential savings and efficiency offered by so-called "smart grid" technology. Thanks to a $47 million stimulus grant from the Obama administration's Department of Energy, all of Idaho Power's customers will have similar tools for reducing their power bills by 2012.

"This is giving you as a customer more control over your rate," said Theresa Drake, Idaho Power's manager for customer relations and energy efficiency.

As technology evolves, the smart grid will allow people to store and sell power in their electric car batteries or personal solar and wind generators.

Have you noticed that YOU out of the hundreds of liberal users on this forum, are the ONLY one defending this bullshit?

 

[Bfgrn]

You are arguing just to argue. You are demanding I relent to your position. Not happening.

Smart grid DOES NOT make the current system more efficient. The smart grid concept id based on involuntary limiting of use. It does nothing to advance the power grid technology.
Your idea, the ability to sell power to others is false. An electrical power customer cannot 'sell' that which does not belong to him.
The only way this could work( not stipulating that it ever could) would be to pay for electricity BEFORE using it.
The way to efficiently use and transmit electricity would be to modernize the existing system.
Of course the environmental faction will not allow this.

Here is just how 'scary' this stuff is. Here is what far leftist communist communities are doing...it is REALLY scary.

'Smart grid' technology gives you power over your power costs

Imagine you could log on to the Internet to find out how much power you used this week.

If you have one of Idaho Power's new smart meters, you already can.

And what if you could pay less to wash your dishes or dry your clothes by simply doing them at a different time of day?

If you live in Emmett, you already can. The Public Utilities Commission pushed Idaho Power to install the new meters there in 2004 and since 2005 the company has offered three different rates there for different times of the day and the week to help people reduce their own bills and the utilities' demand for power at peak times.

These are the first steps Idaho Power has taken to move it toward the potential savings and efficiency offered by so-called "smart grid" technology. Thanks to a $47 million stimulus grant from the Obama administration's Department of Energy, all of Idaho Power's customers will have similar tools for reducing their power bills by 2012.

"This is giving you as a customer more control over your rate," said Theresa Drake, Idaho Power's manager for customer relations and energy efficiency.

As technology evolves, the smart grid will allow people to store and sell power in their electric car batteries or personal solar and wind generators.

Have you noticed that YOU out of the hundreds of liberal users on this forum, are the ONLY one defending this bullshit?

Have you noticed this is just another baseless fear-mongering right wing conspiracy? You people are afraid of your own shadow.

Idaho is far from a leftist haven. Yet experts - from both environmental and industry camps - agree that improving energy efficiency is the cheapest way to keep the utility's rates down. The same is true for individual customers.

Are you also afraid of the 'Floor' buttons in an elevator? Or do we need to bring back human elevator operators so you will not be so afraid?

A smart grid makes changes to supply and demand instantly, preventing power outages and brownouts that manual operators can't react to as quickly and AUTOMATICALLY.

A smart grid is LESS intrusive because it does not need human interdiction.

And the future two way capabilities will allow anyone who invests in solar or wind power, like a farmer, to sell power back to the grid.

It is FREE MARKET, not communism. You right wing turds are REALLY being led down a scurrilous path here.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

NO, the idea is to balance supply and demand instantly. The current manual control is arbitrary and requires predicting. When they are wrong an outage occurs.

The smart grid would be infused with intelligent sensors and controls, automated smart switches and substations, robust communications and other technologies, the smart grid will be able to integrate all types of electric generation and storage systems, preclude power outages and surges to a degree not possible now, predict problems before they occur, and automatically heal itself if problems do happen.

Energy flow in the power grid was designed as a one-way process - from centralized generation to end users (at least in the U.S.). Distributed renewable energy sources introduce the need for a two-way power flow, which contributes to difficulties in maintaining voltage along radial feeders.

The power grid was designed in an era when one or two changes to the grid per day were common. Renewable energy with intermittent generation necessitates a change in grid operations every few minutes.

Benefits of a smarter grid

The operation of the power grid has become so complex over the past 50 years that human control is becoming ineffective. The interconnected grid means a disturbance hundreds of miles away can have catastrophic effects on a local system.

With less centralized control, the need for communications and coordination has become crucial. Sensors and other devices are overwhelming utilities and grid operators with vastly greater amounts of data. Therefore, automated, intelligent, real-time response to grid operations and power events will be required.

However, with smart technologies comes the promise of a more reliable and efficient power grid. Utilities will be able to better manage costs because they will be able to discern many problems before they occur, allowing equipment to be replaced or repaired before problems arise.

In addition, actual problems can be isolated before they cause further damage to the grid, and self-healing capabilities will require fewer personnel dispatches to fix problems. The smart grid will also offer enhanced cybersecurity because it continually monitors itself to detect problems and unsafe conditions.

Society as a whole will experience fewer and shorter power outages, brownouts and other power problems - resulting in less downtime and fewer economic losses.

In summary, the power grid of yesteryear has developed into a very complex system that is now in danger of becoming unable to provide the high-quality, reliable power needed for the economic growth of a high-tech society.

i have no problem with utility companies improving their systems even though i think they are making our systems even more vulnerable to attack.......HOWEVER when it comes to "smart meters"......i have a BIG problem.....

this is simply an invasion into the privacy of all Americans....and it comes as a result of international plans for what the lefties call "Sustainable Development".....all part of the 'transformation' of society masked as 'green' technology....which bottom line is nothing more than top-down control of individuals...

they are planning to not only use 'smart meters' just for electricity but for all your utilities...

There are several major problems for homeowners as the Smart Meters are installed. Here are just a few:

• The cost of heating and cooling homes with Smart Meters is going up because of the inefficient alternative energy that is more expensive than coal and nuclear power.

• Homeowners with Smart Meters in place are discovering that they can’t heat or cool their homes during peak power usage as the electric companies control the thermostats and automatically cut back on usage.

• Property rights are being violated by Smart Meter installers who come onto property against the will of the owners.

• A 2012 Congressional Report now reveals that power companies are able to read data from the meters that reveals residents’ daily schedules and their personal behavior, the types of appliances they use, even if there are certain types of medical equipment in use in the home. This information can then be sold to private concerns or placed in government files. It can lead to identity theft and unwarranted government surveillance.

• Evidence is now emerging that the Smart Meters, which operate by emitting electromagnetic signals, have become a health hazard, as thousands of Smart Meters in neighborhoods blast a non-stop signal, creating what is called Electromagnetic Smog. The electromagnetic radiation is dangerous for the elderly, children, pets, and those subject to such disorders as epilepsy, heart disease, and more. It can lead to disruptive sleep patterns, chronic fatigue, depression, headaches, and much more.

As Americans become aware of these threats they have begun to oppose the installation of Smart Meters on their property. Some local and state governments, when faced with the health complaints, have offered opt-out provisions. Others have responded using force, resulting in arrests, as in Naperville, Illinois. In other places, power companies have shut off electricity to homes of those protesting the Smart Meters.

As the battle against the Smart Meters grows across the nation, Americans need to understand the issue, the dangers, and the real reasons behind the government’s drive to force them on angry and protesting homeowners, violating their property rights and endangering their health in the process.

Smart Meters are designed to provide government with detailed information on your energy use, your movements in your home, the way you use your personal private time, and even how many people are in your home at any given time. It is an unconstitutional invasion of your home by government, as set down in the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

The Growing Threat of Smart Meters

This guy is a full blown wing nut. You folks are beyond help. You need to see a psychiatrist.

Tom DeWeese appears to be a right-wing, anti-globalist, isolationist, anti-environment nut. In his rants which range from fighting environmental movements (because they are really part of a plot to redistribute power and wealth away from the United States) to paganism in Sunday School (which is based on a minor program used by some schools which involve touching trees while blindfolded to learn more about identifying and recognizing things using senses other than sight, as well as learning about interacting with nature), Mr. DeWeese even goes so far as to suggest it is wrong to teach children to pick up litter... He is one of many examples of how ignorant people gain media influence primarily through the Internet. He is also appears to have financial ties to Phillip Morris through his organization, The American Policy Center, which publishes, among other things, the questionably EPA Watch newsletter.

You have just entered the paranoid zone.

like most liberals you are an ignorant jackass.....DeWeese is a patriot for speaking out....

you have no clue that this so-called "Smart-grid" is part of a coordinated collective effort on a global scale....

The dark horse of the New World Order is not Communism, Socialism or Fascism: It is Technocracy.

The development and implementation of Smart Grid technology in the U.S. – reinventing the electrical grid with Wifi-enabled digital power meters – is proceeding at breakneck speed. Although Smart Grid is the result of years of government planning, the recent kickoff was made possible through massive “green” grants that were quietly included in President Obama’s economic stimulus package starting in 2009.

These lucrative grants have drawn in a host of corporate players, from utility compa*nies to digital meter manufacturers to control software vendors. Global companies like IBM, GE and Siemens are putting their full effort behind the “build-out” that will consolidate all of America into a single, integrated, communication-enabled electric delivery and monitoring system, collectively called Smart Grid.

Proponents of Smart Grid claim that it will empower the consumer to better manage his or her power consumption and hence, costs. The utility companies will therefore be more efficient in balancing power loads and requirements across diverse markets.

However, like carnival barkers, these Smart Grid hocksters never reveal where or how SmartGrid came into being, nor what the ultimate endgame aims to achieve; perhaps most of them have no idea either, but simply repeat the mantra as if they know what they are talking about.
.....

Technocracy is a collectivist, utopian political-economic system run by engineers, scientists and technicians. It has the potential to be far more oppressive and controlling than Communism, Socialism or Fascism. Without Smart Grid, we are assured that there will be no rule of Technocracy.

Much more needs to be said, but this report seeks to highlight the following:

1.Technocracy, Inc. was the birth place of the energy-based economic-political model seen behind national, regional, continental and global Smart Grid initiatives
2.R. Buckminster Fuller, a Technocrat at heart, pioneered the design for a Global energy network that is now referred to as “the new World Wide Web of Electricity”
3.All of Technocracy, Inc.’s original requirements for an energy-based system are process of being met
4.Global organizations like the World Economic Forum and the IEEE Standards Organization are fully backing and enabling the global Smart Grid
5.The global Smart Grid and global warming movements are interdependent

It is not clear who will oversee any or all facets of the global Smart Grid. The implied suggestion is that it will be the same engineers and global corporations that are currently developing it. There is no suggestion anywhere in literature that there is a plan for a hand-off of the resulting system to a political structure that serves the people.

The negative aspects of Smart Grid are seldom mentioned. Take cyber-security, for instance. Picture a tech-savvy criminal who breaks into your energy profile data by hacking the computers at your local substation: Based on your power usage, he knows when you are home and when you are not home, when you are awake and when you are asleep, whether you have a security system turned on or off, etc. Armed with such information, your possessions and personal safety would be at his disposal.

With the global groundswell of activity to create the global Smart Grid, it is doubtful that the initiative can be stopped, especially since it is so closely intertwined with the global warming movement and hence, Sustainable Development and even the United Nation’s Agenda 21 program.

In the United States, Smart Grid is escalating without any legislative oversight or involvement; in other words, it is being implemented exclusively by Executive Branch fiat. The same is true in other countries.

The original Technocracy, Inc. was successful for a season due in part to the bone-crushing pressure of the Great Depression. The Great Depression II currently underway will almost certainly sponsor renewed cat-calls that “Capitalism is dead” and pleas for a new system to replace it. The only system waiting in the wings, so to speak, is Technocracy, and its enabling infrastruc*ture is the new World Wide Web of Energy.

Technocracy's Endgame: Global Smart Grid - August Forecast & Review*|*August Forecast & Review

 

[AmericanFirst]

Bout time......nothing worse than a beer slurpee

Spoken like a true socialist drug addict.

 

[Bfgrn]

i have no problem with utility companies improving their systems even though i think they are making our systems even more vulnerable to attack.......HOWEVER when it comes to "smart meters"......i have a BIG problem.....

this is simply an invasion into the privacy of all Americans....and it comes as a result of international plans for what the lefties call "Sustainable Development".....all part of the 'transformation' of society masked as 'green' technology....which bottom line is nothing more than top-down control of individuals...

they are planning to not only use 'smart meters' just for electricity but for all your utilities...

This guy is a full blown wing nut. You folks are beyond help. You need to see a psychiatrist.

Tom DeWeese appears to be a right-wing, anti-globalist, isolationist, anti-environment nut. In his rants which range from fighting environmental movements (because they are really part of a plot to redistribute power and wealth away from the United States) to paganism in Sunday School (which is based on a minor program used by some schools which involve touching trees while blindfolded to learn more about identifying and recognizing things using senses other than sight, as well as learning about interacting with nature), Mr. DeWeese even goes so far as to suggest it is wrong to teach children to pick up litter... He is one of many examples of how ignorant people gain media influence primarily through the Internet. He is also appears to have financial ties to Phillip Morris through his organization, The American Policy Center, which publishes, among other things, the questionably EPA Watch newsletter.

You have just entered the paranoid zone.

like most liberals you are an ignorant jackass.....DeWeese is a patriot for speaking out....

you have no clue that this so-called "Smart-grid" is part of a coordinated collective effort on a global scale....

The dark horse of the New World Order is not Communism, Socialism or Fascism: It is Technocracy.

The development and implementation of Smart Grid technology in the U.S. – reinventing the electrical grid with Wifi-enabled digital power meters – is proceeding at breakneck speed. Although Smart Grid is the result of years of government planning, the recent kickoff was made possible through massive “green” grants that were quietly included in President Obama’s economic stimulus package starting in 2009.

These lucrative grants have drawn in a host of corporate players, from utility compa*nies to digital meter manufacturers to control software vendors. Global companies like IBM, GE and Siemens are putting their full effort behind the “build-out” that will consolidate all of America into a single, integrated, communication-enabled electric delivery and monitoring system, collectively called Smart Grid.

Proponents of Smart Grid claim that it will empower the consumer to better manage his or her power consumption and hence, costs. The utility companies will therefore be more efficient in balancing power loads and requirements across diverse markets.

However, like carnival barkers, these Smart Grid hocksters never reveal where or how SmartGrid came into being, nor what the ultimate endgame aims to achieve; perhaps most of them have no idea either, but simply repeat the mantra as if they know what they are talking about.
.....

Technocracy is a collectivist, utopian political-economic system run by engineers, scientists and technicians. It has the potential to be far more oppressive and controlling than Communism, Socialism or Fascism. Without Smart Grid, we are assured that there will be no rule of Technocracy.

Much more needs to be said, but this report seeks to highlight the following:

1.Technocracy, Inc. was the birth place of the energy-based economic-political model seen behind national, regional, continental and global Smart Grid initiatives
2.R. Buckminster Fuller, a Technocrat at heart, pioneered the design for a Global energy network that is now referred to as “the new World Wide Web of Electricity”
3.All of Technocracy, Inc.’s original requirements for an energy-based system are process of being met
4.Global organizations like the World Economic Forum and the IEEE Standards Organization are fully backing and enabling the global Smart Grid
5.The global Smart Grid and global warming movements are interdependent

It is not clear who will oversee any or all facets of the global Smart Grid. The implied suggestion is that it will be the same engineers and global corporations that are currently developing it. There is no suggestion anywhere in literature that there is a plan for a hand-off of the resulting system to a political structure that serves the people.

The negative aspects of Smart Grid are seldom mentioned. Take cyber-security, for instance. Picture a tech-savvy criminal who breaks into your energy profile data by hacking the computers at your local substation: Based on your power usage, he knows when you are home and when you are not home, when you are awake and when you are asleep, whether you have a security system turned on or off, etc. Armed with such information, your possessions and personal safety would be at his disposal.

With the global groundswell of activity to create the global Smart Grid, it is doubtful that the initiative can be stopped, especially since it is so closely intertwined with the global warming movement and hence, Sustainable Development and even the United Nation’s Agenda 21 program.

In the United States, Smart Grid is escalating without any legislative oversight or involvement; in other words, it is being implemented exclusively by Executive Branch fiat. The same is true in other countries.

The original Technocracy, Inc. was successful for a season due in part to the bone-crushing pressure of the Great Depression. The Great Depression II currently underway will almost certainly sponsor renewed cat-calls that “Capitalism is dead” and pleas for a new system to replace it. The only system waiting in the wings, so to speak, is Technocracy, and its enabling infrastruc*ture is the new World Wide Web of Energy.

Technocracy's Endgame: Global Smart Grid - August Forecast & Review*|*August Forecast & Review

Be afraid...be VERY AFRAID...

The latest conspiracy theory picking up steam is about the UN’s Agenda 21. Fueled by a Glenn Beck show last summer, a Republican National Committee resolution in January, comments by a few candidates for president, and media coverage of local government actions, the topic of Agenda 21’s purpose and reach is percolating. Agenda 21 is an easy target for UN naysayers and isolationists since most people have never heard of it, let alone know the nature of the document. Why should they? It’s an obscure document that’s 20 years old!

Let’s get some facts straight:

• Fact: Agenda 21 was a document adopted unanimously by 178 countries – including the U.S. represented by George H.W. Bush – at the 1992 United Nations Conference on Environment and Development in Rio de Janeiro (also known as the Earth Summit). Agenda 21 reflects a broad international consensus that worsening poverty and growing stresses on the environment require greater integration between environmental and development concerns.

• Fact: Agenda 21 is not a treaty and is not legally binding. Agenda 21 has no legal authority or precedent over a local U.S. jurisdiction or over a citizen. It is a blueprint or vision for development that simultaneously promotes economic growth, improved quality of life, and environmental protection. The conservative Heritage Foundation concurs that this is a nonbinding document.

• Fact: Agenda 21 does not call for the elimination of private property ownership, single-family homes, private car ownership, individual travel choices, or family farms. It is fully consistent with personal freedoms and the rights of citizens to own property, homes, cars, and farms.

• Fact: Agenda 21 does not take supremacy over U.S. law. National governments are in charge of their own development.

So why the focus all of the sudden? In many ways it has been propelled by a larger conversation in the U.S. – one that is a backlash against “big government.” The NIMBY (not in my backyard) activists make a play in the local media when local governments make development decisions (such as where to put in a bike lane, whether to give a permit to a local developer, traffic congestion planning, and so on). Ironically, they are using this global conspiracy theory to pressure local elected officials on decisions that are being made locally.

Activists have attacked the UN in states such as: New Hampshire; Virginia; Florida; Texas; and Missouri, accusing it of making local government decisions and denying individual rights. The media in turn sees a “juicy” story and keeps the conversation going despite the misinformation.

Agenda 21 does not put any American liberties or rights at risk. The facts (above) are clear and unequivocal. Unlike the NIMBY crowd, we don’t need to carry signs or get angry – but we do need to be vocal and vigorous in defense of the UN to ensure the facts are set straight and our message is heard. You can do this by speaking at city council meetings or writing a Letter to the Editor and op-ed, specifically tailored to debunking the Agenda 21. In the past few weeks UNA-USA members in Oklahoma helped turned back an anti-UN state resolution concerned about Agenda 21 and the Nashville Cordell Hull Chapter President had an op-ed published in The Tennessean educating readers about Agenda 21. (Unfortunately, the Tennessee state legislation passed days before the Oklahoma decision.)

Twenty years ago Agenda 21 launched a conversation about how national, state, or local governments think about the environment when they make planning decisions. When a city decides to put more efficient lights bulbs in the street lamps, it makes the streets safer, saves the money, and is better for the environment. The UN doesn’t have anything to do with common sense decisions like this that local governments make every day.

I had a great aunt who refused to believe the U.S. landed on the moon. My dad worked for NASA for more than two decades. You can imagine the conversations at family gatherings. That was fun to listen to, but this debate about Agenda 21 is not; it’s destructive. Let’s put aside the falsehoods, misrepresentations, and warped rationale. Let’s focus on the real UN agenda -- the positive impact on international cooperation and development, and the millions of lives it saves around the world.

And in case you were still wondering, the UN doesn’t own any black helicopters.

- See more at: The United Nations Agenda: Fact, Fiction & Conspiracy Theories

 

[thereisnospoon]

Here is just how 'scary' this stuff is. Here is what far leftist communist communities are doing...it is REALLY scary.

'Smart grid' technology gives you power over your power costs

Imagine you could log on to the Internet to find out how much power you used this week.

If you have one of Idaho Power's new smart meters, you already can.

And what if you could pay less to wash your dishes or dry your clothes by simply doing them at a different time of day?

If you live in Emmett, you already can. The Public Utilities Commission pushed Idaho Power to install the new meters there in 2004 and since 2005 the company has offered three different rates there for different times of the day and the week to help people reduce their own bills and the utilities' demand for power at peak times.

These are the first steps Idaho Power has taken to move it toward the potential savings and efficiency offered by so-called "smart grid" technology. Thanks to a $47 million stimulus grant from the Obama administration's Department of Energy, all of Idaho Power's customers will have similar tools for reducing their power bills by 2012.

"This is giving you as a customer more control over your rate," said Theresa Drake, Idaho Power's manager for customer relations and energy efficiency.

As technology evolves, the smart grid will allow people to store and sell power in their electric car batteries or personal solar and wind generators.

Have you noticed that YOU out of the hundreds of liberal users on this forum, are the ONLY one defending this bullshit?

Have you noticed this is just another baseless fear-mongering right wing conspiracy? You people are afraid of your own shadow.

Idaho is far from a leftist haven. Yet experts - from both environmental and industry camps - agree that improving energy efficiency is the cheapest way to keep the utility's rates down. The same is true for individual customers.

Are you also afraid of the 'Floor' buttons in an elevator? Or do we need to bring back human elevator operators so you will not be so afraid?

A smart grid makes changes to supply and demand instantly, preventing power outages and brownouts that manual operators can't react to as quickly and AUTOMATICALLY.

A smart grid is LESS intrusive because it does not need human interdiction.

And the future two way capabilities will allow anyone who invests in solar or wind power, like a farmer, to sell power back to the grid.

It is FREE MARKET, not communism. You right wing turds are REALLY being led down a scurrilous path here.

All of this is YOUR opinion.
Smart grid, smart meters, etc is one thing. The lazy way out.
Instead of modernizing the technology of the grid, smart regulates use. The additional costs get passed along to the customers. And we get rolling brown outs.
No thanks.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This guy is a full blown wing nut. You folks are beyond help. You need to see a psychiatrist.

Tom DeWeese appears to be a right-wing, anti-globalist, isolationist, anti-environment nut. In his rants which range from fighting environmental movements (because they are really part of a plot to redistribute power and wealth away from the United States) to paganism in Sunday School (which is based on a minor program used by some schools which involve touching trees while blindfolded to learn more about identifying and recognizing things using senses other than sight, as well as learning about interacting with nature), Mr. DeWeese even goes so far as to suggest it is wrong to teach children to pick up litter... He is one of many examples of how ignorant people gain media influence primarily through the Internet. He is also appears to have financial ties to Phillip Morris through his organization, The American Policy Center, which publishes, among other things, the questionably EPA Watch newsletter.

You have just entered the paranoid zone.

like most liberals you are an ignorant jackass.....DeWeese is a patriot for speaking out....

you have no clue that this so-called "Smart-grid" is part of a coordinated collective effort on a global scale....

The dark horse of the New World Order is not Communism, Socialism or Fascism: It is Technocracy.

The development and implementation of Smart Grid technology in the U.S. – reinventing the electrical grid with Wifi-enabled digital power meters – is proceeding at breakneck speed. Although Smart Grid is the result of years of government planning, the recent kickoff was made possible through massive “green” grants that were quietly included in President Obama’s economic stimulus package starting in 2009.

These lucrative grants have drawn in a host of corporate players, from utility compa*nies to digital meter manufacturers to control software vendors. Global companies like IBM, GE and Siemens are putting their full effort behind the “build-out” that will consolidate all of America into a single, integrated, communication-enabled electric delivery and monitoring system, collectively called Smart Grid.

Proponents of Smart Grid claim that it will empower the consumer to better manage his or her power consumption and hence, costs. The utility companies will therefore be more efficient in balancing power loads and requirements across diverse markets.

However, like carnival barkers, these Smart Grid hocksters never reveal where or how SmartGrid came into being, nor what the ultimate endgame aims to achieve; perhaps most of them have no idea either, but simply repeat the mantra as if they know what they are talking about.
.....

Technocracy is a collectivist, utopian political-economic system run by engineers, scientists and technicians. It has the potential to be far more oppressive and controlling than Communism, Socialism or Fascism. Without Smart Grid, we are assured that there will be no rule of Technocracy.

Much more needs to be said, but this report seeks to highlight the following:

1.Technocracy, Inc. was the birth place of the energy-based economic-political model seen behind national, regional, continental and global Smart Grid initiatives
2.R. Buckminster Fuller, a Technocrat at heart, pioneered the design for a Global energy network that is now referred to as “the new World Wide Web of Electricity”
3.All of Technocracy, Inc.’s original requirements for an energy-based system are process of being met
4.Global organizations like the World Economic Forum and the IEEE Standards Organization are fully backing and enabling the global Smart Grid
5.The global Smart Grid and global warming movements are interdependent

It is not clear who will oversee any or all facets of the global Smart Grid. The implied suggestion is that it will be the same engineers and global corporations that are currently developing it. There is no suggestion anywhere in literature that there is a plan for a hand-off of the resulting system to a political structure that serves the people.

The negative aspects of Smart Grid are seldom mentioned. Take cyber-security, for instance. Picture a tech-savvy criminal who breaks into your energy profile data by hacking the computers at your local substation: Based on your power usage, he knows when you are home and when you are not home, when you are awake and when you are asleep, whether you have a security system turned on or off, etc. Armed with such information, your possessions and personal safety would be at his disposal.

With the global groundswell of activity to create the global Smart Grid, it is doubtful that the initiative can be stopped, especially since it is so closely intertwined with the global warming movement and hence, Sustainable Development and even the United Nation’s Agenda 21 program.

In the United States, Smart Grid is escalating without any legislative oversight or involvement; in other words, it is being implemented exclusively by Executive Branch fiat. The same is true in other countries.

The original Technocracy, Inc. was successful for a season due in part to the bone-crushing pressure of the Great Depression. The Great Depression II currently underway will almost certainly sponsor renewed cat-calls that “Capitalism is dead” and pleas for a new system to replace it. The only system waiting in the wings, so to speak, is Technocracy, and its enabling infrastruc*ture is the new World Wide Web of Energy.

Technocracy's Endgame: Global Smart Grid - August Forecast & Review*|*August Forecast & Review

Be afraid...be VERY AFRAID...

The latest conspiracy theory picking up steam is about the UN’s Agenda 21. Fueled by a Glenn Beck show last summer, a Republican National Committee resolution in January, comments by a few candidates for president, and media coverage of local government actions, the topic of Agenda 21’s purpose and reach is percolating. Agenda 21 is an easy target for UN naysayers and isolationists since most people have never heard of it, let alone know the nature of the document. Why should they? It’s an obscure document that’s 20 years old!

Let’s get some facts straight:

• Fact: Agenda 21 was a document adopted unanimously by 178 countries – including the U.S. represented by George H.W. Bush – at the 1992 United Nations Conference on Environment and Development in Rio de Janeiro (also known as the Earth Summit). Agenda 21 reflects a broad international consensus that worsening poverty and growing stresses on the environment require greater integration between environmental and development concerns.

• Fact: Agenda 21 is not a treaty and is not legally binding. Agenda 21 has no legal authority or precedent over a local U.S. jurisdiction or over a citizen. It is a blueprint or vision for development that simultaneously promotes economic growth, improved quality of life, and environmental protection. The conservative Heritage Foundation concurs that this is a nonbinding document.

• Fact: Agenda 21 does not call for the elimination of private property ownership, single-family homes, private car ownership, individual travel choices, or family farms. It is fully consistent with personal freedoms and the rights of citizens to own property, homes, cars, and farms.

• Fact: Agenda 21 does not take supremacy over U.S. law. National governments are in charge of their own development.

So why the focus all of the sudden? In many ways it has been propelled by a larger conversation in the U.S. – one that is a backlash against “big government.” The NIMBY (not in my backyard) activists make a play in the local media when local governments make development decisions (such as where to put in a bike lane, whether to give a permit to a local developer, traffic congestion planning, and so on). Ironically, they are using this global conspiracy theory to pressure local elected officials on decisions that are being made locally.

Activists have attacked the UN in states such as: New Hampshire; Virginia; Florida; Texas; and Missouri, accusing it of making local government decisions and denying individual rights. The media in turn sees a “juicy” story and keeps the conversation going despite the misinformation.

Agenda 21 does not put any American liberties or rights at risk. The facts (above) are clear and unequivocal. Unlike the NIMBY crowd, we don’t need to carry signs or get angry – but we do need to be vocal and vigorous in defense of the UN to ensure the facts are set straight and our message is heard. You can do this by speaking at city council meetings or writing a Letter to the Editor and op-ed, specifically tailored to debunking the Agenda 21. In the past few weeks UNA-USA members in Oklahoma helped turned back an anti-UN state resolution concerned about Agenda 21 and the Nashville Cordell Hull Chapter President had an op-ed published in The Tennessean educating readers about Agenda 21. (Unfortunately, the Tennessee state legislation passed days before the Oklahoma decision.)

Twenty years ago Agenda 21 launched a conversation about how national, state, or local governments think about the environment when they make planning decisions. When a city decides to put more efficient lights bulbs in the street lamps, it makes the streets safer, saves the money, and is better for the environment. The UN doesn’t have anything to do with common sense decisions like this that local governments make every day.

I had a great aunt who refused to believe the U.S. landed on the moon. My dad worked for NASA for more than two decades. You can imagine the conversations at family gatherings. That was fun to listen to, but this debate about Agenda 21 is not; it’s destructive. Let’s put aside the falsehoods, misrepresentations, and warped rationale. Let’s focus on the real UN agenda -- the positive impact on international cooperation and development, and the millions of lives it saves around the world.

And in case you were still wondering, the UN doesn’t own any black helicopters.

- See more at: The United Nations Agenda: Fact, Fiction & Conspiracy Theories

What the fuck does this have to do with anything?

 

[JoeBlam]

These are the same folks that gave us light bulbs that when broken, require a hazmat team for cleanup.

They ain't very bright... no pun intended.

Yep, if you break one you are to immediately turn off the furnace/AC, and evacuate the premises for an hour. Then with a proper mask and gloves, you can reenter, pick up the shards of glass, put them in a "hazardous waste" bag, and drive it to where ever they accept that. Then you are to return home, vacuum the area, and drive it to the same site. If you drop more than one, breathe deeply....you're about to meet your Maker.

 

[JoeBlam]

Entire pages eaten by c/ping the entire text of a quote over and over again....can't any of you just reply to the thought you're contending? Highlight and delete the rest or be known as a lazy clod.