Ethics: Veganism

[Sunshine]

seems I'm the only one having fun in this thread, so I'll stop.

and go to biology


both our eyes face front, the reason for that is so we can judge the distance to a target. A veggie is not a target that will flee, so guess what we were born to eat.

we have pointy k9's or eye teeth, for ripping through (anyone, anyone?)


If you are not eating any meat, you are not eating a proper human diet. The reason some people feel better off meat is the byproducts in it. Eat wild meat and you will feel better as well.

___________________

The only think on our planet that is not easier to get to in space is meat and veggies. So the main reason an alien race would come here would be to eat.

We could very well be on the menu, since there's lots of us and we are slow moving

There are many things which are not digestible. If we were not supposed to eat meat our bodies would not be able to utilize the amino acids from it. You can get all the necessary amino acids from a vegan diet, but you have to know how to combine the foods properly for that to happen. You can't just decide to start eating only vegetables. To do that without the requisite knowledge of how to combine vegetables so they provide at least the 8 ESSENTIAL amino acids is asking to get malnourished.

Essential Amino Acids

 

[percysunshine]

Started to put this in Health, but thinking of the angle this seemed more appropriate.

Had a dream the other day, and while the subject of it has nothing to do with veganism, for whatever reason it led to this train of thought: If we ever encounter intelligent aliens (so we could exchange information,) will our being omnivores negatively effect our standing in their eyes?

It kind of depends on what they taste like.

.

 

[boedicca]

Here's the solution for you: Soylent!

How I Stopped Eating Food : Mostly Harmless

 

[boedicca]

I, on the other hand, will continue to eat meat.

As it's highly likely that any aliens who come to earth will be high order predators (Kanamits!), it's pointless to eat like a grain fattened food animal. I plan to be classified as a fellow predator, and Not Food.

 

[PredFan]

True. Most species which evolve and advance are predators (like us with eyes in front enabling stereoscopic vision making pursuit and aquisition of prey easier.) Thus aliens capable of interstellar travel would likely have evolved from a predatory animal too. A 'plant-eating' peaceable creature is less likely to evolve sufficiently to perfect space travel.

I actually spend rather a lot of time thinking about first contact. I'm not very optimistic. But if the aliens feel they need an excuse to wipe us aside, our treatment of our lesser animals, and indeed our own species might be all the justification they need.

About a decade ago, I read a book called "Rare Earth". It is a well thought out and logically backed book on the Rare Earth Hypothesis. That hypothesis claims that while there may be billions and billions of planets har boring life in the universe, complex life forms are extremely rare and sentient life so rare as to be non existant outside of the earth.

I think that we are the single most advanced life form in the entire universe. Why not? Someone has to be #1.

As we discover more and more exoplanets (currently 3500 or so,) we're beginning to realize planets orbiting stars is the rule and not the exception. Also, planets don't need to orbit stars as per 'rogue planets.' Looking at life here on Earth, where life can exist, it does exist and in millions of forms. Even if just one planet per galaxy evolves intelligent sentient life equal to, or superior to human beings, that's still 200 billion or so such planets in the known universe.

I'm 99.99999...9% certain we're not the most advanced lifeform in the universe. Pleanty of older regions of space and older galaxies out there. Compared to them, ourlittle slice of heaven is young.

People mistakenly believe that all you need is a planet revolving around a sun an poof! There's life. The star has to be the right age, the planet has to be the right size, the solar system has to be the right distance from the center of the galaxy, the planet has to rotate, and the planet itself has to be the right age.

The scientists who authored the book on their rare earth hypothesis reworked and updated the Drake Equasion. Our planet is so exceedingly rare as to practically be alone in the universe. The fact that we cannot make contact not seen any evidence of other life supports their theory.

It's a fascinating read. I believe that we are the most advanced if not the only advanced form of life in the entire universe.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I love animals, cooked ones.

Im fighting Global climate change by eating animals. Imagine how many more cows, pigs, deer, and chickens there would be if I wasn't eating them!

A high protein diet is more healthy than a vegetarian diet, and vegan diets are the worst for you.

Luddley's stint as a vegan explains what happened to make him so brain dead.

Your inability to comprehend what I actually wrote is no surprise at all.

And saying that veganism is unhealthy is just plain stupid.

Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

but, please do eat a meat based diet. Eat as much as you can cram into your fat, bloated slug body.


`

 

[Luddly Neddite]

seems I'm the only one having fun in this thread, so I'll stop.

and go to biology


both our eyes face front, the reason for that is so we can judge the distance to a target. A veggie is not a target that will flee, so guess what we were born to eat.

we have pointy k9's or eye teeth, for ripping through (anyone, anyone?)


If you are not eating any meat, you are not eating a proper human diet. The reason some people feel better off meat is the byproducts in it. Eat wild meat and you will feel better as well.

___________________

The only think on our planet that is not easier to get to in space is meat and veggies. So the main reason an alien race would come here would be to eat.

We could very well be on the menu, since there's lots of us and we are slow moving

Eat whatever you want but don't try to pretend you have canines cuz that's just dumb.

Same with the other physiological traits of carni/omni/herbivores.

Be honest enough to just say you want to eat dead things. Its okay.


And buy a mirror - or see a dentist.

 

[boedicca]

seems I'm the only one having fun in this thread, so I'll stop.

and go to biology


both our eyes face front, the reason for that is so we can judge the distance to a target. A veggie is not a target that will flee, so guess what we were born to eat.

we have pointy k9's or eye teeth, for ripping through (anyone, anyone?)


If you are not eating any meat, you are not eating a proper human diet. The reason some people feel better off meat is the byproducts in it. Eat wild meat and you will feel better as well.

___________________

The only think on our planet that is not easier to get to in space is meat and veggies. So the main reason an alien race would come here would be to eat.

We could very well be on the menu, since there's lots of us and we are slow moving

Eat whatever you want but don't try to pretend you have canines cuz that's just dumb.

Same with the other physiological traits of carni/omni/herbivores.

Be honest enough to just say you want to eat dead things. Its okay.


And buy a mirror - or see a dentist.

Hmmmm...when you eat vegetables, they are no longer alive, bub.

Humans are omnivores. Insulting people for eating what it is perfectly natural for humans to eat just reconfirms that you are an idiot.

 

[PredFan]

I love animals, cooked ones.

Im fighting Global climate change by eating animals. Imagine how many more cows, pigs, deer, and chickens there would be if I wasn't eating them!

A high protein diet is more healthy than a vegetarian diet, and vegan diets are the worst for you.

Luddley's stint as a vegan explains what happened to make him so brain dead.

Your inability to comprehend what I actually wrote is no surprise at all.

And saying that veganism is unhealthy is just plain stupid.

Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

but, please do eat a meat based diet. Eat as much as you can cram into your fat, bloated slug body.


`

Wrong dumbass. I'm absolutely correct. A vegan diet is the least healthy of them all. I have seen the damage it does to the human body first hand. Any time we do surgery on a vegan it's plain as day that their vital organs are malnourished and frail. Don't believe me? I really don't care.

I'm not fat at all. I stay away from most carbs, when I do eat vegetables, it is leafy greens. I am 58 years old and I take no medication other than a daily aspirin, none. No blood pressure medication, no cholesterol medication, I am not diabetic, and I almost never get sick.

I don't expect an idiot such as you to believe me but for those others who might read this the truth is that vegetarian diets to some degree, and vegan diets to a large degree are unhealthy. You want to be skinny? Then sure go vegan, you want to be healthy, stay away from it.

 

[Two Thumbs]

seems I'm the only one having fun in this thread, so I'll stop.

and go to biology


both our eyes face front, the reason for that is so we can judge the distance to a target. A veggie is not a target that will flee, so guess what we were born to eat.

we have pointy k9's or eye teeth, for ripping through (anyone, anyone?)


If you are not eating any meat, you are not eating a proper human diet. The reason some people feel better off meat is the byproducts in it. Eat wild meat and you will feel better as well.

___________________

The only think on our planet that is not easier to get to in space is meat and veggies. So the main reason an alien race would come here would be to eat.

We could very well be on the menu, since there's lots of us and we are slow moving

Eat whatever you want but don't try to pretend you have canines cuz that's just dumb.

Same with the other physiological traits of carni/omni/herbivores.

Be honest enough to just say you want to eat dead things. Its okay.


And buy a mirror - or see a dentist.

So you don't understand basic biology and think denying your body what it is supposed to eat is ok

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There are three reasons to go veg-

Ethical: you decide you don't want to contribute to the horrible, truly mind-numbing cruelty inherent to the meat industry. I shake my head at those who say they're "animal lovers" and against cruelty to animals and yet eat meat. And its not like they can pretend they don't know the truth and they are not the cause of that cruelty.

Environmental: No one factor contributes more to global climate change. You could drive gas guzzlers but do less damage than if you're also vegan.

Your own health: We all know the health ramifications of a meat centered diet. For myself, I don't have the familial risks I was born with. My whole family is sick with diabetes, cancer, heart disease, kidney disease and obesity. I'm the oldest surviving sibling and the only one is good health. The only difference is lifestyle - I quit smoking, I'm active and I've vegetarian. They are none of those things.

I've been vegan - that was my healthiest time. I haven't eaten any meat for more than 30 years and can't imagine ever eating it again. The less you eat, the less you want to and as you feel so much better, you just don't want to go back to how you felt when you ate meat.

Dairy is especially bad for us and I definitely avoid it. I can't say I'm vegan because I do eat eggs we get from a farmer who has chickens. If I had to buy them from a grocery store, I wouldn't eat them.

Do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you spout shit like this? There is no possible way to be a vegan, or a vegetarian, and survive unless you take artificial supplements. Let me rephrase that, it cannot be done. You will die if you try it, and only a complete idiot would even argue it is healthier not to eat meat. We have evolved to get nutrition from both meat and vegetables, there is absolutely no downside to being an omnivore.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I love animals, cooked ones.

Im fighting Global climate change by eating animals. Imagine how many more cows, pigs, deer, and chickens there would be if I wasn't eating them!

A high protein diet is more healthy than a vegetarian diet, and vegan diets are the worst for you.

Luddley's stint as a vegan explains what happened to make him so brain dead.

Your inability to comprehend what I actually wrote is no surprise at all.

And saying that veganism is unhealthy is just plain stupid.

Vegan Bodybuilding & Fitness

but, please do eat a meat based diet. Eat as much as you can cram into your fat, bloated slug body.


`

If it is so healthy why do you need artificial supplements to survive?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

seems I'm the only one having fun in this thread, so I'll stop.

and go to biology


both our eyes face front, the reason for that is so we can judge the distance to a target. A veggie is not a target that will flee, so guess what we were born to eat.

we have pointy k9's or eye teeth, for ripping through (anyone, anyone?)


If you are not eating any meat, you are not eating a proper human diet. The reason some people feel better off meat is the byproducts in it. Eat wild meat and you will feel better as well.

___________________

The only think on our planet that is not easier to get to in space is meat and veggies. So the main reason an alien race would come here would be to eat.

We could very well be on the menu, since there's lots of us and we are slow moving

Eat whatever you want but don't try to pretend you have canines cuz that's just dumb.

Same with the other physiological traits of carni/omni/herbivores.

Be honest enough to just say you want to eat dead things. Its okay.


And buy a mirror - or see a dentist.

You eat dead things, what's your point?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

There are three reasons to go veg-

Ethical: you decide you don't want to contribute to the horrible, truly mind-numbing cruelty inherent to the meat industry. I shake my head at those who say they're "animal lovers" and against cruelty to animals and yet eat meat. And its not like they can pretend they don't know the truth and they are not the cause of that cruelty.

Environmental: No one factor contributes more to global climate change. You could drive gas guzzlers but do less damage than if you're also vegan.

Your own health: We all know the health ramifications of a meat centered diet. For myself, I don't have the familial risks I was born with. My whole family is sick with diabetes, cancer, heart disease, kidney disease and obesity. I'm the oldest surviving sibling and the only one is good health. The only difference is lifestyle - I quit smoking, I'm active and I've vegetarian. They are none of those things.

I've been vegan - that was my healthiest time. I haven't eaten any meat for more than 30 years and can't imagine ever eating it again. The less you eat, the less you want to and as you feel so much better, you just don't want to go back to how you felt when you ate meat.

Dairy is especially bad for us and I definitely avoid it. I can't say I'm vegan because I do eat eggs we get from a farmer who has chickens. If I had to buy them from a grocery store, I wouldn't eat them.

Do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you spout shit like this? There is no possible way to be a vegan, or a vegetarian, and survive unless you take artificial supplements. Let me rephrase that, it cannot be done. You will die if you try it, and only a complete idiot would even argue it is healthier not to eat meat. We have evolved to get nutrition from both meat and vegetables, there is absolutely no downside to being an omnivore.

You're actually right about that one line - that its not possible to live vegan.

But no, I've never taken supplements and no, I'm not going to die of not taking supplements or of not eating meat. LOL

 

[percysunshine]

Ok, this question may seem out of left field, but are there people who refuse to eat animals and vegetables, and only eat minerals? How long do they live?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Ok, this question may seem out of left field, but are there people who refuse to eat animals and vegetables, and only eat minerals? How long do they live?

Not very long, I should think.

I've read the key to good health is a large variety of foods and that's what we strive for.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There are three reasons to go veg-

Ethical: you decide you don't want to contribute to the horrible, truly mind-numbing cruelty inherent to the meat industry. I shake my head at those who say they're "animal lovers" and against cruelty to animals and yet eat meat. And its not like they can pretend they don't know the truth and they are not the cause of that cruelty.

Environmental: No one factor contributes more to global climate change. You could drive gas guzzlers but do less damage than if you're also vegan.

Your own health: We all know the health ramifications of a meat centered diet. For myself, I don't have the familial risks I was born with. My whole family is sick with diabetes, cancer, heart disease, kidney disease and obesity. I'm the oldest surviving sibling and the only one is good health. The only difference is lifestyle - I quit smoking, I'm active and I've vegetarian. They are none of those things.

I've been vegan - that was my healthiest time. I haven't eaten any meat for more than 30 years and can't imagine ever eating it again. The less you eat, the less you want to and as you feel so much better, you just don't want to go back to how you felt when you ate meat.

Dairy is especially bad for us and I definitely avoid it. I can't say I'm vegan because I do eat eggs we get from a farmer who has chickens. If I had to buy them from a grocery store, I wouldn't eat them.

Do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you spout shit like this? There is no possible way to be a vegan, or a vegetarian, and survive unless you take artificial supplements. Let me rephrase that, it cannot be done. You will die if you try it, and only a complete idiot would even argue it is healthier not to eat meat. We have evolved to get nutrition from both meat and vegetables, there is absolutely no downside to being an omnivore.

You're actually right about that one line - that its not possible to live vegan.

But no, I've never taken supplements and no, I'm not going to die of not taking supplements or of not eating meat. LOL

Keep telling yourself that, just don't expect to outlive your neighbor that is chowing down on a well balanced diet that includes meat.

 

[boedicca]

Ok, this question may seem out of left field, but are there people who refuse to eat animals and vegetables, and only eat minerals? How long do they live?

They drink SOYLENT!

How I Stopped Eating Food : Mostly Harmless

 

[BlackSand]

Started to put this in Health, but thinking of the angle this seemed more appropriate.

Had a dream the other day, and while the subject of it has nothing to do with veganism, for whatever reason it led to this train of thought: If we ever encounter intelligent aliens (so we could exchange information,) will our being omnivores negatively effect our standing in their eyes? We'll likely introduce ourselves as the 'dominant lifeform' of this planet...So dominant we enslave lesser lifeforms and use them for food. Shouldn't the dominant lifeform act as stewards of everything else taking care of them? Not enslaving, skinning, and eating them like ogres?

Along with this question, what if the aliens have the means to detect intelligence or sentience we lack and inform us organic foods we didn't think were sentient actually are as with fruits and vegetables? We know they're alive, but we don't consider them intelligent or sentient. What if they were, and we simply lacked the means of determining it?

I tried an ultra-strict vegan diet several years ago. Only made it for about 6 weeks though. Grocery shopping was excruciating reading labels to ensure no dairy or other prohibited things. Though I felt better (other than tremendous gas from all the veggies and fiber,) growing up my father was a butcher for supermarket chain so we always had a variety of meat n seafood so I think I got used to it. And when I finally quit, it was in large part due to missing my baked paprika chicken Kinda thinking about giving it another go though of late.

What about when you find out the aliens want to use you for food?
You will be wondering what they think about our horrid behavior towards domesticated animals ... While they are deciding if you will taste better with wasgoobi or jimbuka sauce.

The weirdest part about my dreams with aliens ... Is when we find out they look and act just like us.

.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Do you have any idea how stupid you sound when you spout shit like this? There is no possible way to be a vegan, or a vegetarian, and survive unless you take artificial supplements. Let me rephrase that, it cannot be done. You will die if you try it, and only a complete idiot would even argue it is healthier not to eat meat. We have evolved to get nutrition from both meat and vegetables, there is absolutely no downside to being an omnivore.

You're actually right about that one line - that its not possible to live vegan.

But no, I've never taken supplements and no, I'm not going to die of not taking supplements or of not eating meat. LOL

Keep telling yourself that, just don't expect to outlive your neighbor that is chowing down on a well balanced diet that includes meat.

Well, I'm closing in on 70 so ...

So far, so good.

But thanks ever so much for your concern.