Even if Biden wins, it doesn’t matter.

[Coyote]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

View attachment 411707


It's you commies that were proposing fundamentally changing the system. You're the ones advocating a tyranny of the majority. So FOAD.

.

Commie commie commie.

That's all you can come up with.

 

[MarathonMike]

"The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies."

Thank you for a well thought out post. The above statement stood out for me. If we look back over the last few years, I can't recall a single attempt by the Democrats to unify. The messaging has been almost exclusively TRUMP IS BAD and worse yet TRUMP SUPPORTERS ARE BAD. When that is your starting point on nearly all of your statements and actions, all you will do is anger and divide. Just looking at our election results shows us that the country is darn near split in half and the divide between us is deep and wide.

I agree. It didn't work when the Republicans used it on Obama either.

I thought the Dems though did a decent job on highlighting healthcare (highly important imo) and Covid. It's really tough to unseat an incumbent regardless. One thing I listened to was on the Democrat messaging to Hispanics. The Trump campaign handled their outreach to Hispanics far better than Biden. Clinton did far better than either with Hispanics. But what the Dems miss, I think, is that "Hispanic" is by no means a unified cultural group, and presuming it is, is not bothering to do your research.

From what I am seeing, Donald Trump significantly increased support among all minorities, Hispanic, Black, Asian, LGBT, and Jewish people. I hope the Democratic leadership will study this and realize that their strategy of dividing America along racial, religious or sexual preference lines failed. Based on the track record, I am not optimistic that they will do anything but double down on this divisive and dangerous strategy.

 

[OKTexas]

What happens when a party then decides to actively block a president's right to fill a vacancy and reverses when it's in power again?

A president has no "right" to fill a vacancy. he as an obligation to nominate someone to fill a vacancy. maobama nominated an individual, the senate chose not to provide consent. The exact same thing would have happened if you commies were in charge of the senate and a republican made the nomination. So don't pretend you have some kind of high ground.

.

 

[Juicin]

"The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies."

Thank you for a well thought out post. The above statement stood out for me. If we look back over the last few years, I can't recall a single attempt by the Democrats to unify. The messaging has been almost exclusively TRUMP IS BAD and worse yet TRUMP SUPPORTERS ARE BAD. When that is your starting point on nearly all of your statements and actions, all you will do is anger and divide. Just looking at our election results shows us that the country is darn near split in half and the divide between us is deep and wide.

I agree. It didn't work when the Republicans used it on Obama either.

I thought the Dems though did a decent job on highlighting healthcare (highly important imo) and Covid. It's really tough to unseat an incumbent regardless. One thing I listened to was on the Democrat messaging to Hispanics. The Trump campaign handled their outreach to Hispanics far better than Biden. Clinton did far better than either with Hispanics. But what the Dems miss, I think, is that "Hispanic" is by no means a unified cultural group, and presuming it is, is not bothering to do your research.

From what I am seeing, Donald Trump significantly increased support among all minorities, Hispanic, Black, Asian, LGBT, and Jewish people. I hope the Democratic leadership will study this and realize that their strategy of dividing America along racial, religious or sexual preference lines failed. Based on the track record, I am not optimistic that they will do anything but double down on this divisive and dangerous strategy.

lol i don't think white jews count in 2020 bud

rest i agree with

THanks Jared for the "peace" deals lol

Those people are not with the rest of us PoC. Very different reasons we're voting for trump. outside the evangelicals anyway. Those jews are pro apartheid

 

[HenryBHough]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

Is even that enough to go with that whine?

 

[OKTexas]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

View attachment 411707


It's you commies that were proposing fundamentally changing the system. You're the ones advocating a tyranny of the majority. So FOAD.

.

Commie commie commie.

That's all you can come up with.

Yep, you're a typical commie, you deflect instead of addressing what I said.

.

 

[dblack]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

I think you're overstating what this election says about the state of our society, and missing an obvious lesson. What Trump has shown us is just how susceptible we are to populism, especially when it's driven by an unscrupulous demagogue. This is why I always cringe at the modern liberal's worship of "democracy". Most voters are ignorant and easily fooled. We need less democracy, not more.

 

[jbrownson0831]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

Its okay, you will have a Dementia Diaper man as president....maybe. And on the bright side if he is illegally elected he won't be around along, the real wackos in your party will see to that. So thank God we will still have some sense of real America in the courts, the Senate, and have no infiltrated the House of Wackos too.

 

[Turtlesoup]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

It does matter, Coyote.

STEALING AN ELECTION THROUGH MASSIVE FRAUD MATTERS>
KEEPING A Crook like Biden in charge so the political elite and their billionaire and foreign puppet masters can continue to swamp up our nation, make themselves above the law, and rob the rest of country certainly matters.

Get ready for the Insurrections--------------which shouldn't be confused with the anti-fa hoodlum antics.

and yes coyote, I have noticed that the dems are now in "play down the gravity" of the power that the office of president has ORGANIZED STUNTS> The president is the most powerful man in the world supposedly or in Bidens case his puppet masters--which would be who the CHINESE AND SOROS? along with Bezos and Gates?

I disagree with you on the "massive fraud" claims. Over and over claims like that have been made, but are unsubstantiated. I view this as a way to sow distrust in our entire electoral system and that is disturbing.

What are your thoughts on the Tump Administrations efforts to dismantle the post office shortly before a major election that was expected to have record amount of mail in voting?

I've seen it first hand----and If I noticed then it must be massive.

On top of this, the numbers don't add up----------I know there was massive fraud again. I'm an independent forced to vote with the conservatives just on the off chance that they might not screw us over as much as the dems------pull out the list telling WHO VOTED since the dems were bragging well actually threatening people to vote because their friends and family would be able to go online NOW and tell WHO Voted and who didn't...check for those that DOUBLE VOTED which I watched the dems set up making possible this year using the COVID LIE. Also check those that supposedly voted to see if they actually voted since this NEW fricking computer tracking would have logical been used to keep a list of voters who didn't vote so their names could be used on the last 4 am type ballots.

I am thinking this was the year of not just the dead who everyone was looking for. BUT more of those double voting, and voting for those on the computer list of those that didn't vote.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

This thread is hilarious...but sad

A leftist can never hide the stripe.

 

[DrLove]

If Trump wins, our young social experiment in self governance and democracy is dead. Yep, he will start jailing his opponents Putin-style. He will further isolate us from the world and alienate us from our allies who are already looking elsewhere for leadership.

On top of that - over a million dead from the COVIDS by end of 2021.

Biden wins? Yep, not much new stuff he can get through. Moscow Mitch will block every judicial appointment including SCOTUS.

But yes, this MAY be enough to save us from an autocratic plutocracy:

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,...

 

[jbrownson0831]

If Trump wins, our young social experiment in self governance and democracy is dead. Yep, he will start jailing his opponents Putin-style. He will further isolate us from the world and alienate us from our allies who are already looking elsewhere for leadership.

On top of that - over a million dead from the COVIDS by end of 2021.

Biden wins? Yep, not much new stuff he can get through. Moscow Mitch will block every judicial appointment including SCOTUS.

But yes, this MAY be enough to save us from an autocratic plutocracy:

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,...

When your opponents are felons they deserve to be jailed.

 

[Turtlesoup]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

It does matter, Coyote.

STEALING AN ELECTION THROUGH MASSIVE FRAUD MATTERS>
KEEPING A Crook like Biden in charge so the political elite and their billionaire and foreign puppet masters can continue to swamp up our nation, make themselves above the law, and rob the rest of country certainly matters.

Get ready for the Insurrections--------------which shouldn't be confused with the anti-fa hoodlum antics.

and yes coyote, I have noticed that the dems are now in "play down the gravity" of the power that the office of president has ORGANIZED STUNTS> The president is the most powerful man in the world supposedly or in Bidens case his puppet masters--which would be who the CHINESE AND SOROS? along with Bezos and Gates?

I disagree with you on the "massive fraud" claims. Over and over claims like that have been made, but are unsubstantiated. I view this as a way to sow distrust in our entire electoral system and that is disturbing.

What are your thoughts on the Tump Administrations efforts to dismantle the post office shortly before a major election that was expected to have record amount of mail in voting?

The POST OFFICE? A giant unionized mismanaged dark black MONEY PIT------that needs to be dismantled completely and redone with a business type model. No way in hell that the POST office shouldn't be a huge money maker but they waste so much that they lose money and want the taxpayers to bail them out. Get rid of delivering mail to everyone----and start requiring those who live in unprofitable mail areas like the boonies of ALASKA--to get a PO BOX and pick up their own mail. Stop paying bonus's to POST OFFICE BIG WIGS and stop PAYING them a $1 million to relocate 40 miles away.

 

[BlueGin]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

I try to read this stuff and understand you, but when you talk about Trump and rules of behavior while Democrats are running around screaming racists, racists, intimidating people into silence who support Trump and pursued witch hunts to shut down the Trump Presidency, I can't take you seriously. Sorry

Exactly.

 

[BlindBoo]

I first learned about politics when I was 9 after RFK was assassinated in 68. I remember the imagines of the Chicago Convention that year. When I was almost 11 the National Guard opened fire on unarmed student protesters in Ohio. I don't think this time is any worst than any other time. Except maybe 1840 -1860. We just need cooler heads to prevail.

 

[Billiejeens]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

Democrats stand for Criminal Aliens, Holding Minorites down by limiting choices, Transgender people infringing on women's rights and safety, Wall Street and Big Tech.
You are never going to bring people together with those priorities.

 

[Billiejeens]

What's sad is....once upon a time, Americans were for Americans and had each others backs no matter what and no matter who the foreign enemy was. We had each others backs. No more. Now if invaded...half would defend the invaders to help them.

They already are.

 

[jbrownson0831]

What's sad is....once upon a time, Americans were for Americans and had each others backs no matter what and no matter who the foreign enemy was. We had each others backs. No more. Now if invaded...half would defend the invaders to help them.

Yeah watch Thirteen Days sometime if you want to see a movie that speaks to what you just said.

 

[DrLove]

I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

Yeah, um, Barack Obama governed by executive fiat more than any President in US history. And that is a fact.

He signed more Presidential Memorandums than any President ever, and he did it for two reasons:

1. They are not numbered, catalogued, and archived like Executive Orders are
2. So he could tell his blind followers, "I signed less EO's than any modern President"

All President Trump did was rollback the endless illegal and unconstitutional actions of Barack Obama. That's it. That's all he's used them for. So if you're appalled at the number of Executive Orders by Trump, you better do some research and understand it is all because of Barack Obama.

You sir - Are full of CRAP

Trump signs more executive orders in first three years than Obama despite calling them 'power grabs'

'The country wasn't based on executive orders' president told campaign rally in 2016

www.independent.co.uk

Trump outstripping Obama on pace of executive orders

WASHINGTON (AP) — It wasn't too long ago that Donald Trump derided presidential executive orders as "power grabs" and a "basic disaster." He's switched sides in a big way: In each year of his presidency, he has issued more executive orders than did former President Barack Obama during the same...

apnews.com

 

[Billiejeens]

This election should tell you Americans don’t like Trump, but that Democrat policies like ending fossil fuels, destroying industry, defunding the police, reparations, taxpayer subsidized college, erasing student debt on the backs of taxpayers, taxpayer subsidized healthcare for everyone including illegals, giving Iran money, etc.. aren’t popular with Americans. If you thought you were winning on the issues you couldn’t be more wrong.

Americans do like Trump
Plus, everything you derided - Trump agrees with you on.
If you don't like him as a President, the problem is within you, not him.