Even if Biden wins, it doesn’t matter.

[DrLove]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

View attachment 411707


It's you commies that were proposing fundamentally changing the system. You're the ones advocating a tyranny of the majority. So FOAD.

.

Commie commie commie.

That's all you can come up with.

At least he could upgrade it to "DIRTY commie"

 

[Billiejeens]

"The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies."

Thank you for a well thought out post. The above statement stood out for me. If we look back over the last few years, I can't recall a single attempt by the Democrats to unify. The messaging has been almost exclusively TRUMP IS BAD and worse yet TRUMP SUPPORTERS ARE BAD. When that is your starting point on nearly all of your statements and actions, all you will do is anger and divide. Just looking at our election results shows us that the country is darn near split in half and the divide between us is deep and wide.

Which solidifies the idea that one side must crush the other.

 

[Billiejeens]

We're not that divided if you get rid of the cults of personality. On issues, Americans are somewhat congruent.

I laugh

 

[healthmyths]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

I know one thing for certain. Trump would never have allowed this to happen:

 

[Billiejeens]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

I know one thing for certain. Trump would never have allowed this to happen:
View attachment 411716

Well,

Donald Trump isn't a Kenyan Muslim with advisers like Valerie Jarrett around.

 

[BlackSand]

I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

Yeah, um, Barack Obama governed by executive fiat more than any President in US history. And that is a fact.

He signed more Presidential Memorandums than any President ever, and he did it for two reasons:

1. They are not numbered, catalogued, and archived like Executive Orders are
2. So he could tell his blind followers, "I signed less EO's than any modern President"

All President Trump did was rollback the endless illegal and unconstitutional actions of Barack Obama. That's it. That's all he's used them for. So if you're appalled at the number of Executive Orders by Trump, you better do some research and understand it is all because of Barack Obama.

You sir - Are full of CRAP

Trump signs more executive orders in first three years than Obama despite calling them 'power grabs'

'The country wasn't based on executive orders' president told campaign rally in 2016

www.independent.co.uk

Trump outstripping Obama on pace of executive orders

WASHINGTON (AP) — It wasn't too long ago that Donald Trump derided presidential executive orders as "power grabs" and a "basic disaster." He's switched sides in a big way: In each year of his presidency, he has issued more executive orders than did former President Barack Obama during the same...

apnews.com

It is humorous and shortsighted to think that number is more important than content or magnitude ...
But that my friend is the depth of intellectual discovery when observing the thoughtless divisive comments from both sides of the aisle.

And people may wonder why I call them assclowns in the circus sideshow when referring to the Beltway.
They will have you fighting each other over the irrelevant, just for the sake of seeing who can be more stupid ...

.

 

[dblack]

We're not that divided if you get rid of the cults of personality. On issues, Americans are somewhat congruent.

I laugh

I think GT makes a good point. We're driven into opposite corners by a flawed election process that radicalizes the division.

 

[LeftofLeft]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

When has Trump gone after enemies? Under Trump, has anyone stepped forward and said they were targeted by the IRS for an audit? Under Trump, has anyone said they were spied on? I think you've got the wrong administration and party.

 

[Turtlesoup]

I first learned about politics when I was 9 after RFK was assassinated in 68. I remember the imagines of the Chicago Convention that year. When I was almost 11 the National Guard opened fire on unarmed student protesters in Ohio. I don't think this time is any worst than any other time. Except maybe 1840 -1860. We just need cooler heads to prevail.

Hun.....an assassination is not politics there is so much more.

Given how violent the dems current thugs anti-fa and BLM have been---you would have thunk that some of you easily manipulated by tales of the shooting of protestors of Ohio would have rethinking been their positions. See I am bit younger and wasn't born in 68 or earlier....but I see the violent PROTESTORS now and think you know the OHIO thugs were likely the same thing---rich white dem college students and blm morons who were probably being thugs and got shot which ended their antics long before they could take to burning down the cities as they are now.

If you READ history---every time socialists and communists have taken over or tried...they used their BROWN SHIRT VIOLENT THUGS to protest, riot, burn, and attack others----they never stop UNTIL they are shot. Shooting them keeps the brown shirt thugs from doing more damage---so in all likelihood, shooting the OHIO campus communists then just save the business and innocent people alot of grief. Wish they would have done this when the brown shirt dems were "protesting" statues and flags in the beginning.

 

[healthmyths]

A board member wrote: "...one side must crush the other."
I really find that hard to take as the "other side" are Americans also.
The problem I have with the other side is simple. They seem to think the America should not be defended.
They seem to think those of us that have legally come to America, legally worked hard to succeed are responsible
for those that came illegally and don't work hard to succeed.
Until the other side truly grows up to be responsible adults I guess we adults have to show them what responsible
people do and hopefully Darwin's law of survival of the fittest doesn't have to come into play.

 

[OKTexas]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

I think you're overstating what this election says about the state of our society, and missing an obvious lesson. What Trump has shown us is just how susceptible we are to populism, especially when it's driven by an unscrupulous demagogue. This is why I always cringe at the modern liberal's worship of "democracy". Most voters are ignorant and easily fooled. We need less democracy, not more.

Yeah, if we had a basic civics test to register to vote, you commies would lose about 70% of your easily led lemmings.

.

 

[dblack]

Yeah, if we had a basic civics test to register to vote, you commies would lose about 70% of your easily led lemmings.

I'm a commie? I guess you haven't read many of my posts.

 

[Rocko]

This election should tell you Americans don’t like Trump, but that Democrat policies like ending fossil fuels, destroying industry, defunding the police, reparations, taxpayer subsidized college, erasing student debt on the backs of taxpayers, taxpayer subsidized healthcare for everyone including illegals, giving Iran money, etc.. aren’t popular with Americans. If you thought you were winning on the issues you couldn’t be more wrong.

Americans do like Trump
Plus, everything you derided - Trump agrees with you on.
If you don't like him as a President, the problem is within you, not him.

naw 4 million more votes for Biden, the motivation was Trump hate.

i don’t like him as president. He’s a liar number one. He lied about COVID and his supporters cheered him on for it. Number two he doesn’t give a fuck about anyone but himself and says ridiculously stupid things. When he got COVID and got better the asshole bragged that you have to dominate the virus. Instead of being humble and thanking the doctors and God the guy acted like the prick he is. His rallies have literally killed hundreds if not more of his supporters. Yeah character matters and Trump’s character sucks. He acts like asshole/dishonest child, and his polices aren’t perfect either. Spending? The stupid trade deals?


You have your opinion I have mine.

 

[OKTexas]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

View attachment 411707


It's you commies that were proposing fundamentally changing the system. You're the ones advocating a tyranny of the majority. So FOAD.

.

Commie commie commie.

That's all you can come up with.

At least he could upgrade it to "DIRTY commie"

That's a given.

.

 

[Billiejeens]

We're not that divided if you get rid of the cults of personality. On issues, Americans are somewhat congruent.

I laugh

I think GT makes a good point. We're driven into opposite corners by a flawed election process that radicalizes the division.

We take ourselves different directions because we want different things.

At one point we all wanted the USA to be better every day, we simply had different ideas on how to get there.

Now, one side wants the US to be great,
the other side wants to gut it and start over.

Hard to compromise those two positions.

 

[BlindBoo]

I first learned about politics when I was 9 after RFK was assassinated in 68. I remember the imagines of the Chicago Convention that year. When I was almost 11 the National Guard opened fire on unarmed student protesters in Ohio. I don't think this time is any worst than any other time. Except maybe 1840 -1860. We just need cooler heads to prevail.

Hun.....an assassination is not politics there is so much more.

Given how violent the dems current thugs anti-fa and BLM have been---you would have thunk that some of you easily manipulated by tales of the shooting of protestors of Ohio would have rethinking been their positions. See I am bit younger and wasn't born in 68 or earlier....but I see the violent PROTESTORS now and think you know the OHIO thugs were likely the same thing---rich white dem college students and blm morons who were probably being thugs and got shot which ended their antics long before they could take to burning down the cities as they are now.

If you READ history---every time socialists and communists have taken over or tried...they used their BROWN SHIRT VIOLENT THUGS to protest, riot, burn, and attack others----they never stop UNTIL they are shot. Shooting them keeps the brown shirt thugs from doing more damage---so in all likelihood, shooting the OHIO campus communists then just save the business and innocent people alot of grief. Wish they would have done this when the brown shirt dems were "protesting" statues and flags in the beginning.

RFK being assassinated moments after giving his victory speech after winning Calf and most likely the nomination of his party was not politics?

The innocent students who were killed on campus as they moved between classes were not violently protesting. The violence happened off campus. Firing live rounds at these students, those American Citizens, was payback for burning down the ROTC building, imo.

It was a turbulent time. We made it through.

 

[dblack]

We're not that divided if you get rid of the cults of personality. On issues, Americans are somewhat congruent.

I laugh

I think GT makes a good point. We're driven into opposite corners by a flawed election process that radicalizes the division.

We take ourselves different directions because we want different things.

At one point we all wanted the USA to be better every day, we simply had different ideas on how to get there.

Now, one side wants the US to be great,
the other side wants to gut it and start over.

Hard to compromise those two positions.

The point is, the two sides have been driven into diametrically opposed positions because of our election system. Our system encourages radicalized opposition and discourages consensus. And consensus is what we need, now, more than anything.

 

[Billiejeens]

We're not that divided if you get rid of the cults of personality. On issues, Americans are somewhat congruent.

I laugh

I think GT makes a good point. We're driven into opposite corners by a flawed election process that radicalizes the division.

We take ourselves different directions because we want different things.

At one point we all wanted the USA to be better every day, we simply had different ideas on how to get there.

Now, one side wants the US to be great,
the other side wants to gut it and start over.

Hard to compromise those two positions.

The point is, the two sides have been driven into diametrically opposed positions because of our election system. Our system encourages radicalized opposition and discourages consensus. And consensus is what we need, now, more than anything.

No, that's not the point.
Your reality is not The Reality.

 

[jbrownson0831]

This election should tell you Americans don’t like Trump, but that Democrat policies like ending fossil fuels, destroying industry, defunding the police, reparations, taxpayer subsidized college, erasing student debt on the backs of taxpayers, taxpayer subsidized healthcare for everyone including illegals, giving Iran money, etc.. aren’t popular with Americans. If you thought you were winning on the issues you couldn’t be more wrong.

Americans do like Trump
Plus, everything you derided - Trump agrees with you on.
If you don't like him as a President, the problem is within you, not him.

naw 4 million more votes for Biden, the motivation was Trump hate.

i don’t like him as president. He’s a liar number one. He lied about COVID and his supporters cheered him on for it. Number two he doesn’t give a fuck about anyone but himself and says ridiculously stupid things. When he got COVID and got better the asshole bragged that you have to dominate the virus. Instead of being humble and thanking the doctors and God the guy acted like the prick he is. His rallies have literally killed hundreds if not more of his supporters. Yeah character matters and Trump’s character sucks. He acts like asshole/dishonest child, and his polices aren’t perfect either. Spending? The stupid trade deals?


You have your opinion I have mine.

Waah waah waah instead of finding votes you whiners need to get some more tissues. What a moron.

 

[dblack]

We're not that divided if you get rid of the cults of personality. On issues, Americans are somewhat congruent.

I laugh

I think GT makes a good point. We're driven into opposite corners by a flawed election process that radicalizes the division.

We take ourselves different directions because we want different things.

At one point we all wanted the USA to be better every day, we simply had different ideas on how to get there.

Now, one side wants the US to be great,
the other side wants to gut it and start over.

Hard to compromise those two positions.

The point is, the two sides have been driven into diametrically opposed positions because of our election system. Our system encourages radicalized opposition and discourages consensus. And consensus is what we need, now, more than anything.

No, that's not the point.
Your reality is not The Reality.

I think it is, or at least I think it's an accurate observation. Plurality voting creates two opposed parties that have little incentive to find common ground. Politicians who try to buck that, who strive for broad consensus, are punished - by their parties and by the system. I don't think that will change until we change the voting system to reward consensus, rather than punishing it.