Everyone is dancing around the truth in the Sandra Bland arrest. What happened is obvious.

[Nosmo King]

Mark my words here, this is what is going to happen: the cop will be near completely exonerated.

It's Texas. Of course he will be exonerated. In any other civilized state, he would be fired.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

He was out of line, but she clearly exacerbated the situation.

I'd say they both did some exacerbating. But the cop was in control of the situation and all he needed to do was write the summons and say goodbye. It was up to him but he chose to take it to the limit.

With all due respect, Mike..."she" is the one in charge of the situation. If she puts out her cigarette and signs the warning, that police officer tells her to have a nice day, gets back in his cruiser and leaves. She doesn't do that though...does she? She makes a decision that she doesn't like what the police officer has done stopping her for changing lanes without signalling and she's going to give him a piece of her mind. Now do I think the police officer over reacted to her? Yes, I do. He shouldn't have let her attitude get under his skin. At that point the old saying "it takes two to tango" applies to what is happening. She won't back down and neither will he. She resists arrest and she goes to jail. He "wins" his contest with her and then gets roasted by the media when she subsequently commits suicide in jail. The person who ultimately took it to the limit was her.

The officer is the authority and in total control.

Yes and in controlling the situation, using his authority he asked to her to put out her smoke and exit the car. She didn't comply. Should he have then just said "oh never mind" and let her go?

Yes exactly. Here is your ticket. Have a nice day.

Sorry but that don't happen in the real world. When you don't comply to a lawful order, they will not simply let you walk away.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Mark my words here, this is what is going to happen: the cop will be near completely exonerated.

It's Texas. Of course he will be exonerated. In any other civilized state, he would be fired.

Fired for what? Doing his job?

 

[PredFan]

Mark my words here, this is what is going to happen: the cop will be near completely exonerated.

It's Texas. Of course he will be exonerated. In any other civilized state, he would be fired.

Not at all. Unless in some other state they don't have the same laws. Everything the cop did was lawful and warranted according to law and department rules. Mark my words on that.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

So you get pulled over for failing to signal a lane change and the cop wants to know "where it is you're going," and you're okay with that?

I won't criticize you if you are willing to tell the cop where you're going, or where you've been, or why, or whatever intrusive assault on your privacy he chooses to impose, because you'd prefer to get a warning instead of a summons. In the proper mood I might be inclined to do the same. But wouldn't you prefer that the cop is not equipped with the power of judging whether you get a warning or a summons based on his personal disposition toward you?

Warnings in the example of minor traffic infractions are typically issued to individuals who have clean driving records -- which should be the only criterion for determining who gets a warning rather than a summons. It should not be up to the cop. Because cops are cops -- not judges. And a basic psychological principle in delegating authority, such as police authority, is recipients are likely to autonomously expand to the next higher level if not diligently supervised.

If a cop is allowed to tell a driver he pulls over for a minor traffic infraction to put his/her cigarette out, he soon will be asking where they are going, or where they've been, and with who, or whatever else might occur to him when in fact it is none of his business.

If a cop pulls you over for failing to signal a turn, unless there is some evidence of something illegal he has no right to assert his authority beyond that necessary to facilitate his immediate purpose, which is issuing a warning or a summons for the infraction he observed.

This is so because America is not a police state.

Yet.

With all due respect, Mike...the police officer DOES have the discretion to decide whether you get a warning or a ticket. You've broken a law and that police officer is the on site representative of our legal system who you are dealing with. You can do everything in your power to make that officer decide in your favor and give you a warning...or you can bust his chops and probably get a ticket or worse. My question for you is a simple one...why would you antagonize the person who has that discretion? It's just plain stupid.

See, here's the rub. There is no legal standard that allows for attitude. Either ticket me or walk the fuck away. That's the two choices available if the officer has no other probable cause. He certainly shouldn't continue to escalate the situation until he feels he has one.

One what?

Reason to arrest someone. Probable cause.
How do you go from a warning or a citation to an arrest simply because the subject pissed you off?

It wasn't just the fact she pissed him off, it was because she failed to comply with his request. When an officer ask you to get out of your car, you get out of your car. You are lawfully detained the moment you are stopped by the police. He asked her to extinguish her cigarette because he wanted her hands empty when she stepped out.

Using your point, if you know that you are subject to arrest for pissing off a cop, why would you piss off a cop?

The request was not necessary. He had the ticket in his hand.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Do you believe that respect is a reciprocal quality? If citizens should respect police, why don't police seem to be able to respect citizens?

She got what she deserved? Really?

I find fear to be much more useful than respect when dealing with most people. Even if it was a respect issue its,about respecting the badge abd the authority that comes with it rather than the individual wearing it.

She got arrested which is what she deserved. The rest was in her hands, novody else's.

I can understand why you would employ fear rather than respect. You do not believe in the concept of police serving and protecting. As you are a heartless authoritarian, it makes perfect sense. All I ask is that you never participate in policing any community. Your attitude serves concentration camp internees well, but is inappropriately useless in civil society..

Officers do not deserve respect?

Read prior posts.

My question is: Is respect reciprocal? If citizens should respect police officers, shouldn't police officers respect citizens?

Usually it is, but in the case it wasn't. She got disrespectful real quick.

 

[PredFan]

With all due respect, Mike...the police officer DOES have the discretion to decide whether you get a warning or a ticket. You've broken a law and that police officer is the on site representative of our legal system who you are dealing with. You can do everything in your power to make that officer decide in your favor and give you a warning...or you can bust his chops and probably get a ticket or worse. My question for you is a simple one...why would you antagonize the person who has that discretion? It's just plain stupid.

See, here's the rub. There is no legal standard that allows for attitude. Either ticket me or walk the fuck away. That's the two choices available if the officer has no other probable cause. He certainly shouldn't continue to escalate the situation until he feels he has one.

One what?

Reason to arrest someone. Probable cause.
How do you go from a warning or a citation to an arrest simply because the subject pissed you off?

It wasn't just the fact she pissed him off, it was because she failed to comply with his request. When an officer ask you to get out of your car, you get out of your car. You are lawfully detained the moment you are stopped by the police. He asked her to extinguish her cigarette because he wanted her hands empty when she stepped out.

Using your point, if you know that you are subject to arrest for pissing off a cop, why would you piss off a cop?

The request was not necessary. He had the ticket in his hand.

Actually the request was necessary and common.

 

[peach174]

I don't understand where some of the people of this nation thinks that they can have a shitty attitude toward a cop and still expect to not to get arrested.
You as a citizen have that dash cam in the cop car and or a phone cam as your rights and you take it to court.
If a cop says put out your cig you do it. If he says get out of the car you do.
If he says stand on one leg and bark like a dog your do it, even if it violates your rights.
You take that to court and get the cop fired and get that precinct under control.

It was her disrespect and refusal to obey the cop that caused her to be arrested, same as many of the others.

Or get a dash cam like this guy did.
She accused him of going through a yellow light. The look on her face is priceless.

They cost anywhere from 50.00 and up.

 

[Nosmo King]

Mark my words here, this is what is going to happen: the cop will be near completely exonerated.

It's Texas. Of course he will be exonerated. In any other civilized state, he would be fired.

Fired for what? Doing his job?

Does his job include abusing someone during a routine traffic stop? Did this happen in 2015 Texas or 1939 Berlin? But, then again, the only difference is the climate.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

So you get pulled over for failing to signal a lane change and the cop wants to know "where it is you're going," and you're okay with that?

I won't criticize you if you are willing to tell the cop where you're going, or where you've been, or why, or whatever intrusive assault on your privacy he chooses to impose, because you'd prefer to get a warning instead of a summons. In the proper mood I might be inclined to do the same. But wouldn't you prefer that the cop is not equipped with the power of judging whether you get a warning or a summons based on his personal disposition toward you?

Warnings in the example of minor traffic infractions are typically issued to individuals who have clean driving records -- which should be the only criterion for determining who gets a warning rather than a summons. It should not be up to the cop. Because cops are cops -- not judges. And a basic psychological principle in delegating authority, such as police authority, is recipients are likely to autonomously expand to the next higher level if not diligently supervised.

If a cop is allowed to tell a driver he pulls over for a minor traffic infraction to put his/her cigarette out, he soon will be asking where they are going, or where they've been, and with who, or whatever else might occur to him when in fact it is none of his business.

If a cop pulls you over for failing to signal a turn, unless there is some evidence of something illegal he has no right to assert his authority beyond that necessary to facilitate his immediate purpose, which is issuing a warning or a summons for the infraction he observed.

This is so because America is not a police state.

Yet.

With all due respect, Mike...the police officer DOES have the discretion to decide whether you get a warning or a ticket. You've broken a law and that police officer is the on site representative of our legal system who you are dealing with. You can do everything in your power to make that officer decide in your favor and give you a warning...or you can bust his chops and probably get a ticket or worse. My question for you is a simple one...why would you antagonize the person who has that discretion? It's just plain stupid.

See, here's the rub. There is no legal standard that allows for attitude. Either ticket me or walk the fuck away. That's the two choices available if the officer has no other probable cause. He certainly shouldn't continue to escalate the situation until he feels he has one.

One what?

Reason to arrest someone. Probable cause.
How do you go from a warning or a citation to an arrest simply because the subject pissed you off?

I guess she shouldnt have given him a reason.

What legal reason would that be? 1st degree Butthurting an officer?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

With all due respect, Mike...the police officer DOES have the discretion to decide whether you get a warning or a ticket. You've broken a law and that police officer is the on site representative of our legal system who you are dealing with. You can do everything in your power to make that officer decide in your favor and give you a warning...or you can bust his chops and probably get a ticket or worse. My question for you is a simple one...why would you antagonize the person who has that discretion? It's just plain stupid.

See, here's the rub. There is no legal standard that allows for attitude. Either ticket me or walk the fuck away. That's the two choices available if the officer has no other probable cause. He certainly shouldn't continue to escalate the situation until he feels he has one.

One what?

Reason to arrest someone. Probable cause.
How do you go from a warning or a citation to an arrest simply because the subject pissed you off?

It wasn't just the fact she pissed him off, it was because she failed to comply with his request. When an officer ask you to get out of your car, you get out of your car. You are lawfully detained the moment you are stopped by the police. He asked her to extinguish her cigarette because he wanted her hands empty when she stepped out.

Using your point, if you know that you are subject to arrest for pissing off a cop, why would you piss off a cop?

The request was not necessary. He had the ticket in his hand.

Obviously the cop (who was there) thought it necessary. He may have suspected she was under the influence due to her behavior which warranted further investigation. You cannot know what the officer saw or smelled from the video.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Mark my words here, this is what is going to happen: the cop will be near completely exonerated.

It's Texas. Of course he will be exonerated. In any other civilized state, he would be fired.

Fired for what? Doing his job?

Does his job include abusing someone during a routine traffic stop? Did this happen in 2015 Texas or 1939 Berlin? But, then again, the only difference is the climate.

What abuse? Asking her to put out her cigarette and step out of the car?

Damn you are one stupid fuck if you think that was abuse.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I'd say they both did some exacerbating. But the cop was in control of the situation and all he needed to do was write the summons and say goodbye. It was up to him but he chose to take it to the limit.

With all due respect, Mike..."she" is the one in charge of the situation. If she puts out her cigarette and signs the warning, that police officer tells her to have a nice day, gets back in his cruiser and leaves. She doesn't do that though...does she? She makes a decision that she doesn't like what the police officer has done stopping her for changing lanes without signalling and she's going to give him a piece of her mind. Now do I think the police officer over reacted to her? Yes, I do. He shouldn't have let her attitude get under his skin. At that point the old saying "it takes two to tango" applies to what is happening. She won't back down and neither will he. She resists arrest and she goes to jail. He "wins" his contest with her and then gets roasted by the media when she subsequently commits suicide in jail. The person who ultimately took it to the limit was her.

The officer is the authority and in total control.

Yes and in controlling the situation, using his authority he asked to her to put out her smoke and exit the car. She didn't comply. Should he have then just said "oh never mind" and let her go?

Yes exactly. Here is your ticket. Have a nice day.

Sorry but that don't happen in the real world. When you don't comply to a lawful order, they will not simply let you walk away.

The order wasn't necessary. The encounter was over. He had the ticket in his hand.

 

[PredFan]

Mark my words here, this is what is going to happen: the cop will be near completely exonerated.

It's Texas. Of course he will be exonerated. In any other civilized state, he would be fired.

Fired for what? Doing his job?

Does his job include abusing someone during a routine traffic stop? Did this happen in 2015 Texas or 1939 Berlin? But, then again, the only difference is the climate.

He did not abuse her.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

With all due respect, Mike..."she" is the one in charge of the situation. If she puts out her cigarette and signs the warning, that police officer tells her to have a nice day, gets back in his cruiser and leaves. She doesn't do that though...does she? She makes a decision that she doesn't like what the police officer has done stopping her for changing lanes without signalling and she's going to give him a piece of her mind. Now do I think the police officer over reacted to her? Yes, I do. He shouldn't have let her attitude get under his skin. At that point the old saying "it takes two to tango" applies to what is happening. She won't back down and neither will he. She resists arrest and she goes to jail. He "wins" his contest with her and then gets roasted by the media when she subsequently commits suicide in jail. The person who ultimately took it to the limit was her.

The officer is the authority and in total control.

Yes and in controlling the situation, using his authority he asked to her to put out her smoke and exit the car. She didn't comply. Should he have then just said "oh never mind" and let her go?

Yes exactly. Here is your ticket. Have a nice day.

Sorry but that don't happen in the real world. When you don't comply to a lawful order, they will not simply let you walk away.

The order wasn't necessary. The encounter was over. He had the ticket in his hand.

It was over when she was cuffed and placed in a squad car. I bet a dime to a dollar you would have complied with the officer.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

See, here's the rub. There is no legal standard that allows for attitude. Either ticket me or walk the fuck away. That's the two choices available if the officer has no other probable cause. He certainly shouldn't continue to escalate the situation until he feels he has one.

One what?

Reason to arrest someone. Probable cause.
How do you go from a warning or a citation to an arrest simply because the subject pissed you off?

It wasn't just the fact she pissed him off, it was because she failed to comply with his request. When an officer ask you to get out of your car, you get out of your car. You are lawfully detained the moment you are stopped by the police. He asked her to extinguish her cigarette because he wanted her hands empty when she stepped out.

Using your point, if you know that you are subject to arrest for pissing off a cop, why would you piss off a cop?

The request was not necessary. He had the ticket in his hand.

Obviously the cop (who was there) thought it necessary. He may have suspected she was under the influence due to her behavior which warranted further investigation. You cannot know what the officer saw or smelled from the video.

Obviously you are wrong as the officer's supervisor stated quite clearly that he did not follow proper procedures. I like how you all forget that little piece of the story.

 

[Harry Dresden]

for once?.....so you agree with dean that all republicans are like he says they are?...

If you mean stupid kaka poo poo yes.

well that answered that....avoid answering, just like the guy....

I don't know what your asking harry.

sure you do....you said you always agree with dean except here.....so you know what dean says ALL Republicans believe,which is bullshit...when dean says ALL Republicans hate minorities,even though thousands of them have lived out here amongst them for decades and have even married them...so do you agree with him?...do you believe all Republicans hate gays,the poor,dont want people to have health ins,dont like science and education...this is what this unfortunate stroonge believes....so do you agree with him?....because by saying what you said above...you do...he said i was a racist in another thread last week,when i asked him to do what he claims he does better than anyone here,prove it....the guy just could not do it,so he started playing his little games that he always plays..."i dont know what you are talking about"....thats what im talking about bobo....

Yes I agree with rdean about republicans. I don't consider you one though. You even admit you hate both parties, remember? You won't vote Republican or Democrats, remember? I suspect now you were lying. You'll end up voting jeb even after all your talk about how you won't.

Saying not true doesn't make me believe you.

GOP policies prove rdean right. If you support those policies then to some degree about you. You know I like you but hate your racist political positions.

so you are just as much of an asshole as dean is?...thanks for being honest....now let me ask you to prove this..... but hate your racist political positions....lets see you prove what your asshole friend could not.....

 

[Nosmo King]

Mark my words here, this is what is going to happen: the cop will be near completely exonerated.

It's Texas. Of course he will be exonerated. In any other civilized state, he would be fired.

Fired for what? Doing his job?

Does his job include abusing someone during a routine traffic stop? Did this happen in 2015 Texas or 1939 Berlin? But, then again, the only difference is the climate.

What abuse? Asking her to put out her cigarette and step out of the car?

Damn you are one stupid fuck if you think that was abuse.

And...

You seem to have a very selective memory. PHYSICAL ABUSE, VERBAL ABUSE.
The cop acted as a thug.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The officer is the authority and in total control.

Yes and in controlling the situation, using his authority he asked to her to put out her smoke and exit the car. She didn't comply. Should he have then just said "oh never mind" and let her go?

Yes exactly. Here is your ticket. Have a nice day.

Sorry but that don't happen in the real world. When you don't comply to a lawful order, they will not simply let you walk away.

The order wasn't necessary. The encounter was over. He had the ticket in his hand.

It was over when she was cuffed and placed in a squad car. I bet a dime to a dollar you would have complied with the officer.

I said I do. That doesn't mean I have to accept it when someone else is wronged.

 

[Nosmo King]

Mark my words here, this is what is going to happen: the cop will be near completely exonerated.

It's Texas. Of course he will be exonerated. In any other civilized state, he would be fired.

Fired for what? Doing his job?

Does his job include abusing someone during a routine traffic stop? Did this happen in 2015 Texas or 1939 Berlin? But, then again, the only difference is the climate.

He did not abuse her.

What is your definition of abuse? What is your definition of civil comportment, of professional police tactics, of everyday manners? I tend to believe that they do not meet the threshold of more civilized Americans.