Everyone should be in favor of reducing taxes on the "rich"

[sealybobo]

You don't 'get' anything apparently, seeing as how you compeltely missed the point or are just refusing to acklowledge it. There is plenty of opportunity out there to make money right now as evidenced by the fact that plenty of people are doing just that.

The point still remains. You guys can piss and moan about the free market or blame Republicans or do whatever. In the end you can sit on your thumbs a whine about who should do what for you or you can use that thing between your ears and make an effort to help yourself.

Define plenty. More people are taking a step backward, not forward. Now is not the time to start a new business. Good luck securing a loan.

Sure people with money are buying up homes cheap. They'll sit on them and make a fortune.

They buy stocks low and will sit on them too.

But this economy does not encourage people to be entreprenurial or innovative. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

But true, just like back in the Guilded Age, people started talking millions instead of thousands. Today, people are talking billions instead of millions.

I know exactly what you suggesting. I'm suggesting you are spinning. You republicans can't lose. A good economy is your doing and a bad economy is an opportunity! Great! Now lets all go out there and dig for gold!!!

 

[Bern80]

I know exactly what you suggesting. I'm suggesting you are spinning. You republicans can't lose. A good economy is your doing and a bad economy is an opportunity! Great! Now lets all go out there and dig for gold!!!

Of course a poor economy is an opportunity. That's basic economics, not spin. Buy low, sell high. Not exactley rocket science. Now is the best time to be buy a house as well and have the opportunity to make some real money when you sell it.

And contrarty to popular opinion it doesn't take gobs of money to do either of those things. If you have mantained decent credit, you can still get no down mortgages and you don't have to buy stock in bulk, hell you can buy just one if you want.

The main reason I don't buy into this admittedly is purely anectdotal and based on observation. I make very little relatively speaking, on the order of $12/hr. Yet I still manage to afford (easily) all of the luxuries I want (DTV, high speed internet). A huge part of this I beleive that some just don't want to admit or don't realize is how financially illiterate most people are. They just don't understand how money works or the things you can do with it. That couple with our American mentality that is increasingly turning toward an entitlement mentality and you have a big sense of why we are where we are now.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Define plenty. More people are taking a step backward, not forward. Now is not the time to start a new business. Good luck securing a loan.

Sure people with money are buying up homes cheap. They'll sit on them and make a fortune.

They buy stocks low and will sit on them too.

But this economy does not encourage people to be entreprenurial or innovative. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

But true, just like back in the Guilded Age, people started talking millions instead of thousands. Today, people are talking billions instead of millions.

I know exactly what you suggesting. I'm suggesting you are spinning. You republicans can't lose. A good economy is your doing and a bad economy is an opportunity! Great! Now lets all go out there and dig for gold!!!

you are so fucking brainwashed into thinking that the government is your savior that you wouldn't see a diamond mine in your own back yard.

there are opportunities in every market. but you need to be creative to see them. some of the largest fortunes in history were made by people starting with nothing in a bad economy.

what you don't like is that it is up to YOU to make it work. you would rather whine about how lucky those rich people are "they never worked for their money they just got breaks from republicans"

stop being a thumb sucking whiner

View attachment 5883

 

[sealybobo]

Of course a poor economy is an opportunity. That's basic economics, not spin. Buy low, sell high. Not exactley rocket science. Now is the best time to be buy a house as well and have the opportunity to make some real money when you sell it.

And contrarty to popular opinion it doesn't take gobs of money to do either of those things. If you have mantained decent credit, you can still get no down mortgages and you don't have to buy stock in bulk, hell you can buy just one if you want.

Too bad people can't afford it. They have to heat their homes and fill up their gas tanks and buy food.

So tell me, who should I invest in? I will keep track of the stock and tell you how well I did in 2 months. Give me your best tip.

Yes you are spinning, because the economy is in the dumps and getting worse. I hope I keep my job too. So I'm not going to buy a second home right now. What do you do that you have such job security?

If you will vote Republican even after all this, there is nothing I can say that will ever change your mind. There will always be people like you.

 

[editec]

you are so fucking brainwashed into thinking that the government is your savior that you wouldn't see a diamond mine in your own back yard.

there are opportunities in every market. but you need to be creative to see them. some of the largest fortunes in history were made by people starting with nothing in a bad economy.

what you don't like is that it is up to YOU to make it work. you would rather whine about how lucky those rich people are "they never worked for their money they just got breaks from republicans"

stop being a thumb sucking whiner

View attachment 5883

Well there's obviously one hell of a lot more opportunity today than there was day before yesterday, isn't there?

Unless you happen to be one of those pople who worked for Lehman, of course.

Their opportunity horizon might have shrunk a bit in the last 48 hours or so.

 

[sealybobo]

you are so fucking brainwashed into thinking that the government is your savior that you wouldn't see a diamond mine in your own back yard.

there are opportunities in every market. but you need to be creative to see them. some of the largest fortunes in history were made by people starting with nothing in a bad economy.

what you don't like is that it is up to YOU to make it work. you would rather whine about how lucky those rich people are "they never worked for their money they just got breaks from republicans"

stop being a thumb sucking whiner

View attachment 5883

This is why you are going to lose. You and McCain basically are calling millions of Americans a bunch of whiners.

And you fucking whined when Clinton was in office and he had a good economy. So fuck you telling us to stop whining. Do you prefer a bad economy? Is that what you are saying? You got your way for 6 plus years and really fucked things up. Now you want to spin it by telling us we are crybabies when we tell you that YOU SUCKED!!!!

 

[sealybobo]

Well there's obviously one hell of a lot more opportunity today than there was day before yesterday, isn't there?

Unless you happen to be one of those pople who worked for Lehman, of course.

Their opportunity horizon might have shrunk a bit in the last 48 hours or so.

And those Lehman employees are going to hit the unemployment market and make it harder for EVERYONE looking for jobs. Flooding the market with supply when there is no demand.

I wonder what business an unemployed Lehman Brothers employee should start. Let's see, he has less than $100K in savings, a mortgage, $750 coming in every 2 weeks from unemployment, no one will give him/her a loan because they are unemployed and banks already made enough bad loans, no insurance, he can cash out his 401K but that is for retirement and if he fails then the GOP are bankrupting the country so Social Security won't be there for him when he goes to retire and they made filing bankruptsy harder for the middle class but easier for the rich and corporations.

Republicans don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

 

[Skull Pilot]

This is why you are going to lose. You and McCain basically are calling millions of Americans a bunch of whiners.

And you fucking whined when Clinton was in office and he had a good economy. So fuck you telling us to stop whining. Do you prefer a bad economy? Is that what you are saying? You got your way for 6 plus years and really fucked things up. Now you want to spin it by telling us we are crybabies when we tell you that YOU SUCKED!!!!

how do you know what i was doing when slick willie was in office?

I am not a republican you idiot, how many times do I have to tell you that?

And I never said I prefer a bad economy, what I said was there are opportunities in every economy. Dispute that if you can.

And yes I think Americans are becoming a bunch of whiny thumb suckers.

woe is me, woe is me View attachment 5884

So things a tough, stop complaining and do something to help yourself.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Well there's obviously one hell of a lot more opportunity today than there was day before yesterday, isn't there?

Unless you happen to be one of those pople who worked for Lehman, of course.

Their opportunity horizon might have shrunk a bit in the last 48 hours or so.

I don't consider a job an opportunity.

 

[sealybobo]

how do you know what i was doing when slick willie was in office?

I am not a republican you idiot, how many times do I have to tell you that?

And I never said I prefer a bad economy, what I said was there are opportunities in every economy. Dispute that if you can.

And yes I think Americans are becoming a bunch of whiny thumb suckers.

woe is me, woe is me View attachment 5884

So things a tough, stop complaining and do something to help yourself.

What is your profession? Did you lose a job and have to go out and find another? If you found one that paid more than your last job, you got very very lucky. Most people made less. Most people went further into debt under GOPanomics.

So when Obama wins, don't you dare fucking whine about a god damn thing. Got it?

 

[Bern80]

Too bad people can't afford it. They have to heat their homes and fill up their gas tanks and buy food.

If they really truly can't afford to buy a single share of stock (doubtful), then they can probably be doing things to save money on for when they can. I know you like to believe everyone has their shit together and are doing everything right and making the best financial choices and are still getting hurt by this economy, but that simply isn't reality. As I said most people just aren't that financially literate, they don't plan financially for the future, whether that be in terms of retirement or haveing a nest egg for when economic times like this come around. Even when history shows them that most generations will experience a weak economy sometime in their lifetime.

So tell me, who should I invest in? I will keep track of the stock and tell you how well I did in 2 months. Give me your best tip.

Do some research. Long term there are a lot stocks that are a safe bet right now. Look at stock that down more than normal. Look at growing industries, like renewable energy companies. Or the gaming industry (videogames) for whatever reason has remained quite strong through this actually posting gains.

Yes you are spinning, because the economy is in the dumps and getting worse. I hope I keep my job too. So I'm not going to buy a second home right now. What do you do that you have such job security?

How is it spin. Are you saying it simply can't be done. I suppose someone with a victim mentality would think that. Here's a hint, the people that will whether this storm are the ones actively seek opportunities, who planned for it and who are putting in the effort to make wise financial choices now. Those that aren't gonna make it are people like you that are going to sit on their ass and hope, or even think it's someone elses obligation to, fix this for them.

I work as a technical service rep (call center essentially) for a company that manufactures fishing equipment. yes our company itself is feeling this as well. We have had layoffs in production. In the call center however the phone doesn't stop ringing, so this job is pretty secure. it won't be outsourced because the cost of setting it up overseas, whatever they would save in labor, would be rather significant as it requires rather technical training.

If you will vote Republican even after all this, there is nothing I can say that will ever change your mind. There will always be people like you.

I will because I don't see much real evidence that Republican's or even government caused this problem. Economies cycle. That's the way it is and it doesn't care who is in office.

 

[Bern80]

This is why you are going to lose. You and McCain basically are calling millions of Americans a bunch of whiners.

And you fucking whined when Clinton was in office and he had a good economy. So fuck you telling us to stop whining. Do you prefer a bad economy? Is that what you are saying? You got your way for 6 plus years and really fucked things up. Now you want to spin it by telling us we are crybabies when we tell you that YOU SUCKED!!!!

No he's saying what is the point in whining or placing blame. Some of us get that it makes far more sense for individuals to try and solve the problems they are haveing on their own then to wait for government to fix it for them.

If you are going to sit there and say it can't be done then obviously for you it won't be, but many others out there are going to whether this and even come out ahead because they took calculated risks, and decided that they had control over their financial futures and acted accordingly.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What is your profession? Did you lose a job and have to go out and find another? If you found one that paid more than your last job, you got very very lucky. Most people made less. Most people went further into debt under GOPanomics.

I've worked for myself since I was in my late teens. I put myself through school with a house cleaning business I started that eventually had 5 employees to whom I sold my cleaning contracts and equipment for a pretty good sum when I graduated. I was a commission only salesman for a while then I got my securities license and did financial planning now my wife and I own a business together. And you know what? It didn't matter to me who was president because I never expected the government to do anything for me. If my business slowed down I took a night job and worked the business during the day. In other words I did what I had to without whining about it. So don't you dare call me lucky for my success.

So when Obama wins, don't you dare fucking whine about a god damn thing. Got it?

please don't try to scare me. it is hard to find you intimidating with your thumb in your mouth.

 

[Shogun]

well it sure didn't take you long to stop making sense again.

says the guy whose economic hardon is currently failing the United states..


For someone that complains abput rheoric you use more than most on this board. The future can be predicted with your method because it has been tried before and has failed and to top it all off your plan totally disregards American culture and its behaviors.

HA! Yea.. JAPAN CLEARLY PROVES AS MUCH!



Like it or not we are not loyal, right now the only thing people can afford to be loyal to is what is easiest on their wallets. Your plan undermines that. You are truly deluded if you think your plan is a cure all.


No, Like it or not, YOUR kind are losing it's grip on the fucking economic policies of this nation. We ARE loyal as long as the price is right and people see that buying American means Americans can eat. Thus, tariffs on cheap plastic shit from china.. Or, in your case STEEL from EU. But hey, keep smacking your head against the reality wall and tell me more about who is deluded given the reality of our current economics.



What is amazing is all this evidence you claim you have provided. Most of it was never in question in the first place. We are all well aware that jobs are leaving the U.S.


THEN WHY DID YOU ASK FOR A FUCKING CONSUMER PRICE INDEX, motherfucker? Here, LET ME QUOTE YOU:

post223
Why are 5% increases not as impressive as they once were? Be specific. Do you have any evidence to support this reduced value theory of yours? Maybe that's the case and maybe it isn't, but no job is going to hold the same value forever

You see.. THIS is what we call EVIDENCE. EV-ID-ENCE. THIS is why you fail.



What you HAVEN"T proven is your argument: That the current economic down turn is a result of free market capitalism. That has been the crux of your argument this whole time. Disregarding whatever evidence you think you have for that the assertion alone is completely full of holes. We don't operate in free market capitalism in the first place,

oh NOW we don't operate with a free market! nice, dude.. nice. I mean, NAFTA sure the fuck isn't a tool of such, is it? Your little fucking EU STEEL link sure wasn't all about the FREE MARKET.. noooo.. Dance motherfucker dance.




for starters. We already enact tariffs and we already regualate private industry quite extensively. You clearly haven't considered the many variables invlolved in our economy either.

No, I have. But we don't tariff them enough to normalize a domestic price that makes DOMESTIC goods competitive in relation to OUR standard of living. Every MOM & POP store gone out of business, EVERY labor job sent to fucking Mexico, EVERY TECH job send to india laughs at you right now. There is a reason you are on the DEFENSIVE trying to clean up spilled milk. Perhaps you should finally figure out why that is the case.



Including the big one that no one on the left seems to want to admit and that is that this just might have teensy weensy bit to do with human behavior. It is amazing that you can't even consider an alternative possibly, what with your vast credentials and all (what were they again?).


HA! attacking my, uh, CREDENTIALS? It takes a fucking Ivy league economics proff to see the repercussions of sending jobs overseas, doesn't it?

THATS pathetic, dude. Are you so fucking stupid that you think human behaviour ALSO won't be effected by HAVING A DECENTLY PAYING JOB? When people HAVE money they SPEND money. Put that on your minimized wage in the service industry pole and smoke it, dude.


Meanwhile some of the smartest economists of the past centrey who I've cited disagree with you, including the like of Milton Friedman. That isn't hero worship or ass kissing. Ask economist worth their salt and they would probably say the same.


oh.. NAME DROPPING! Gosh, that takes a LOT of neurons, dude! Wipe your brown fucking lipstick off and realize that I don't care what you think their salt is worth while the reality on the ground is 160 degree from the shit you happened to memorize in class.



The biggest impedement in getting anywhere with you is that you refuse to acknowledge reality. If you can't answer the following question I am content to simply see how it plays out. Don't worry, you will have your nation of mediocrity in a few generations as the values of the greatest generation that you espous so greatly finely become extinct. The question: Could you be convinced by evidence that doesn't match what you currently believe? Are you even capable of changeing your mind? I doubt it

HAHAHA!


IM the one who refuses to acknowledge REALITY?

HP to cut nearly 25,000 jobs by 2011
Computer maker to trim 7.5% of its payroll with half of cuts coming in the United States as it integrates outsourcing giant EDS.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Computer maker Hewlett-Packard said it will lay off 24,600 employees, or 7.5% of its workforce, over the next three years in a plan to integrate tech outsourcer Electronic Data Systems, which HP bought late last month.

HP said the workforce reduction will result in annual cost savings of about $1.8 billion. Of the nearly 25,000 layoffs, HP said about half will come from workers in the United States.

HP to cut nearly 25,000 jobs by 2011 - Sep. 15, 2008

REALITY, motherfucker. TODAY.


BRAVO, dude. fucking BRAVO.

 

[Shogun]

do you realize that even in this economy there are new first time, not born to it, millionaires being made every year?
your problem is that you, like so many other Americans , have had an employee mindset drilled into you. you fell for the old "get a good job and work hard line". Almost all new millionaires have been successful because they worked foir themselves.
Record number of US millionaires
The number of millionaire households in the United States grew in 2004 to a record 7.5 million, up 21 percent in one year, according to surveys cited in the May 25 Wall Street Journal. This very wealthy segment of the population now controls an astounding $11 trillion in assets
that was just 2004.
this economy is still ripe with opportunity if only you would stop whining about what the government is not doing for you and start doing something for yourself you might just see that.

thats like saying there are more people with 100K more than ever in 1972. Are you going to tell me that the VALUE of 1 million dollars indicates a growing amount of WEALTH or a REDUCED VALUE OF 1 MILLION DOLLARS. Fuck, have you WATCHED a gameshow lately? gimme a fucking break.

 

[sealybobo]

If they really truly can't afford to buy a single share of stock (doubtful), then they can probably be doing things to save money on for when they can. I know you like to believe everyone has their shit together and are doing everything right and making the best financial choices and are still getting hurt by this economy, but that simply isn't reality. As I said most people just aren't that financially literate, .

I'm going to stop you right here. Can't afford, as in, don't have any money, as in, just lost their home, and job, and 401K, at age 30, or 40, or lost their pension.........

You are one of those people who until it happens to you, you just won't get it. Heck, you are feeling the affects of this economy and you STILL don't get it.

Don't worry, we'll take care of you. We got it from here dude. You've done enough, no, really.

 

[Shogun]

You don't 'get' anything apparently, seeing as how you compeltely missed the point or are just refusing to acklowledge it. There is plenty of opportunity out there to make money right now as evidenced by the fact that plenty of people are doing just that.

The point still remains. You guys can piss and moan about the free market or blame Republicans or do whatever. In the end you can sit on your thumbs a whine about who should do what for you or you can use that thing between your ears and make an effort to help yourself.

No, trust me.. we are not sitting on our thumbs so much as we are taking this nation away from your fat piggly little fingers, capitalist. Guess what happens after another massive crash like we are seeing in banking TODAY...

Money-Market Rates Double Amid Global Credit Seizure (Update4)
Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

US FDIC: monitoring Lehman impact on insured banks
US FDIC: monitoring Lehman impact on insured banks | Markets | Bonds News | Reuters

WaMu Rating Lowered to Junk by S&P on Mortgage Losses (Update4)
Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

A NEWER DEAL..




I mean.. even SOME people were making money during the fucking depression, right??? The fucking DUSTBOWL was just OPPORTUNITY! RIGHT?




you stupid bastard.

 

[Shogun]

moron

keep whining how you want people with more money than you to take care of you.

And that the dollar is only worth 70cents (so you say) is a good thing because the stocks I buy today will appreciate that much faster when the market picks up steam again. And it will.

So go hide your head chicken little while the men go to work to make something happen

SO SHE SAYS?

I posted the fucking consumer price index of a fucking dollar already. for real.. for those who are quick to cry about how much of a lock theyhave on economics you stupid fuckers really are lacking in your comprehension of evidence. You HOPE they will appreciate. THAT is the ONLY thing you can say about it.

No, I think we'll go ahead and take the reigns from your feeble fucking hands.

 

[Shogun]

Of course a poor economy is an opportunity. That's basic economics, not spin. Buy low, sell high. Not exactley rocket science. Now is the best time to be buy a house as well and have the opportunity to make some real money when you sell it.

And contrarty to popular opinion it doesn't take gobs of money to do either of those things. If you have mantained decent credit, you can still get no down mortgages and you don't have to buy stock in bulk, hell you can buy just one if you want.

The main reason I don't buy into this admittedly is purely anectdotal and based on observation. I make very little relatively speaking, on the order of $12/hr. Yet I still manage to afford (easily) all of the luxuries I want (DTV, high speed internet). A huge part of this I beleive that some just don't want to admit or don't realize is how financially illiterate most people are. They just don't understand how money works or the things you can do with it. That couple with our American mentality that is increasingly turning toward an entitlement mentality and you have a big sense of why we are where we are now.

THE POPULATION SURE CAN AFFORD FUCKING HOUSES RIGHT NOW CANT THEY BERN?

 

[Bern80]

THE POPULATION SURE CAN AFFORD FUCKING HOUSES RIGHT NOW CANT THEY BERN?

If you want to keep using absolutes and extremes and play that game be my guest. Plenty of people can afford homes right now. All I'm saying is if you can find a way to do so right now you can?

The point is to get yourself in position where market fluctuation doesn't have this dire impact on you. Your solution to that is to piss and moan and wait for government to bail you out. How's that workin' for ya so far?