Everyone should be in favor of reducing taxes on the "rich"

[sealybobo]

That's nothing isn't unique to the GOP. It is human nature to attribute success to oneself (rightly or wrongly) and it is human nature to blame failure on something other than yourself (rightly or wrongly). We want credit for the good, but none for the bad.



This is a faulty assumption that the right don't have compassion. The only people I don't have compassion for are those that are fully able, but don't and those that refuse to use and or acknowledge their potential. If you truly aren't accountable or have no responsibility for the situation you're in that's one thing, but I have no compassion for people who chose behaviors for themselves and blame others for why they are where they are. It is something I just don't get. Even if you are truly just a victim I still don't see how it helps you to sit on your ass and hope someone else drags you out of it.



It depends on what you define as work hard. Do most people work hard at their actual jobs, sure. How many people work hard to expand their skill sets to make themselves more valuable and warrant more pay?



If you were smart you would know defecits dont' have a lot to do with the which party is in office.

People get screwed under gopanomics rightly and wrongly.

You cut social programs that help good people, and turned a blind eye while corporate welfare bankrupted the country. I'd call you greedy but you didn't profit from it.

Ah, the old fall back on the argument that both parties have deficits.

As far as the rest of your argument, I tend to assume the ppl who are out of work were doing the best they could, and that's just as good as in india, japan or china. We just don't do it cheap. The middle class is what makes america great. Every country has rich people. Only America has such a massive thriving middle class where even labor can retire in 30 yrs. Not under the gop rule. No way.

 

[sealybobo]

one never fails until one stops trying. I have had business ventures fail anyone who tries to start a business knows failure. I unlike many never quit trying.



There are countless examples of poor undereducated people that have become wildly successful they will tell you that they are no smarter and no better then anyone else. They just had a desire to be something more and would let nothing stand in their way. So yes anyone not mentally or physically handicapped can make more of themselves if they choose.



that's just the point. I am not somebody special. i am just an average guy who sacrificed and risked a little more than most and I refused to accept defeat.



JM never has been a conservative and he never will be. right now he is torn between being who he is and who he thinks he needs to be to win.

And I have paid lower taxes under GW i am not at the 250k annual income that BHO wants to punish but i still will not vote for him just because he promises me money.



If there is a deficit, there is no surplus.

The Myth of the Clinton Surplus
Verifying this is as simple as accessing the U.S. Treasury website where the national debt is updated daily and a history of the debt since January 1993 can be obtained. Considering the government's fiscal year ends on the last day of September each year, and considering Clinton's budget proposal in 1993 took effect in October 1993 and concluded September 1994 (FY1994), here's the national debt at the end of each year of Clinton Budgets:


FiscalYear
Year
Ending National Debt Deficit
FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion
FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion
FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion
FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion
FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion
FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion
FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion
FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion
FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion



As can clearly be seen, in no year did the national debt go down, nor did Clinton leave President Bush with a budget surplus that Bush subsequently turned into a deficit. Yes, the budget was almost balanced in FY2000 (ending in September 2000 with a deficit of "only" $17.9 billion), but it never reached zero--let alone a positive number. And Clinton's last budget proposal for FY2001, which ended in September 2001, generated a $133.29 billion deficit. The growing deficits started in the year of the last Clinton budget, not in the first year of the Bush administration.




is it brainwashing to believe there was a surplus and a deficit at the same time?

And you have no idea what I give to charity or animal rescue organizations or the deals i cut clients who are struggling so don't' assume i have no compassion. I just don't want my compassion mandated by the government.

You don't get the surplus thing, not me.

Let me make ir easy for you to understand.

Reagan $200 billion deficit
hw bush $300 billion deficit
clinton $200 surplus
Bush 2 $450 billion deficit

I understand none of them dealt with the national debt. that's a different conversation. But as far as who killed years of my social security, or just who's worse?

and you didn't make out with your bush tax breaks. You paid it back with inflation. plus you still owe for iraq.

 

[sealybobo]

And you are trying to eliminate choice. I had a very simple request. Show me this isolationist system that will improve or at the very least maintain everyone's living standatd and will never see a downturn.

We just want it so a hard working average american can retire in 30 yrs if they save. we don't want the rug pulled out from under our feet like you are doing to our grand parents. you guys haven't heard, its time to give up denying things are fucked up. Even mccain admits the gop are responsible. He's saying he is the one and only. gimme a break.

 

[Bern80]

As far as the rest of your argument, I tend to assume the ppl who are out of work were doing the best they could, and that's just as good as in india, japan or china. We just don't do it cheap. The middle class is what makes america great. Every country has rich people. Only America has such a massive thriving middle class where even labor can retire in 30 yrs. Not under the gop rule. No way.

But that isn't an asumption anyone is justified to make. Like I said it is human nature to not look at oneself as to the reasons they have failed at something. Someone looses a job. Okay the simple answer as to why is to say that something about the business changed beyond their control that required the business no longer needing them.

The real answer occurs before then in the area of asking yourskef some questions about your chosen profession. I don't know if it just doesn't occur to people or what, but to Zoomie is right to a great extent and it all comes down to the skill set you possess. If you have a skill set that is limited such that a whole bunch of other people have them too you are more disposable than people that have a skill set that few people have. That isn't rocket science, as my physics teacher used to say, that is something that should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. There's hurdle number one in choosing a career.

Hurdle number two: Even if you have a sought after skill is it valuable enough to outweigh the enticement of setting up shop overseas. Businesses transfer jobs overseas for pretty much just one reason. It's cheap. So you have to ask yourself again am I choosing a career path that other things being equal or even other things takeing a bit of a back seat, that would stay in the U.S?

The point is all of these things, while you may not think about them much, you inuitively know about jobs and the job market, if you know even a monkey could do your job and that it may not be safe from foreign competition, what's the best option at that point? Sit there and pray that your company doesn't do that or that government steps in? Or take action yourself to expand your skill set and/or find a job that is less vulnerable to moving overseas.

 

[Gunny]

Anti-Obamanomics: Why Everyone Should Be in Favor of Reducing Taxes on the "Rich" - George Reisman - Mises Institute



Contrary to popular belief, high taxes are not passed along to consumers in the form of higher prices. Businesses are already charging as much as they can, on average. However, taxes will have a crippling effect on businesses' ability to invest in the future, hire more people, and expand.



Translation: don't eat your seed corn.





Translation: you can't have higher living standards without higher productivity! There is no way around this. The prices of things--manufactured goods at least--should be going down over time, if production output grows faster than the population.






Supply-siders, pay attention. Tax cuts without spending cuts aren't really a cut. Instead of bleeding the economy dry via taxes, the government bleeds the economy dry by soaking up funds that could have been loaned to businesses.



Cliffs Notes: If governments want businesses to remain somewhat competitive, they'll have to avoid taxing them, just like Sweden did. If they refuse to cut spending, like Sweden, they will have to put big taxes on ordinary working people. Which is kind of pointless--taking money from John Q. Public only to turn around and give it right back to him (minus handling fees of course).





No wonder so many people have a distaste for "free" market economics.

George Reisman, Ph.D., is Pepperdine University Professor Emeritus of Economics. His web site is Capitalism: A Treatise on Economics. His blog is at George Reisman's Blog on Economics, Politics, Society, and Culture.

Everyone should be in favor of reducing incomes for elected officials in the Federal government, and trimming it down to a somewhat reasonable size. That alone would probably cut the deficit in half.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Do you consider no longer having a job an opportunity?

Possibly. it depends an what you do when you lose a job. maybe you get fed up and vow to never work for someone else again and you do whatever it takes to start your own business.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You don't get the surplus thing, not me.

Let me make ir easy for you to understand.

Reagan $200 billion deficit
hw bush $300 billion deficit
clinton $200 surplus
Bush 2 $450 billion deficit

I understand none of them dealt with the national debt. that's a different conversation. But as far as who killed years of my social security, or just who's worse?

Do you want to argue about SS again?

Even in 1994 It Slicky's budget was seen for what it really was: smoke and mirrors

http://http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n4_v46/ai_14885290



Congressional accounting rules are not to be trusted

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20070529/1a_lede29.art.htm

Modern accounting requires that corporations, state governments and local governments count expenses immediately when a transaction occurs, even if the payment will be made later.

The federal government does not follow the rule, so promises for Social Security and Medicare don't show up when the government reports its financial condition.


So even knowing the government shady accounting techniques (BTW this goes for democrats and republicans alike), you still want to believe there was a surplus. That's OK you have to believe in something I guess.

And you still seem to think i am a republican. I have been very clear that I am not and that I believe Bush is a moron and I don't agree with much of anything he's done. And yes i probably will vote for JM but i see it as a lesser of 2 evil thing. I don't believe JM or BHO will actually do anything but politics as usual so the devil i know is better than BHO.

and you didn't make out with your bush tax breaks. You paid it back with inflation. plus you still owe for iraq.

If the deficit doesn't count in this conversation then neither does Iraq. And Katrina spending added to inflation as well so maybe we should add that into the mix no? Inflation runs in cycles like anything else

 

[Bern80]

Here is an interesting article about the Japanese economic turnaround, seeing as how Shogun likes to point to them as being this beacon of how well isolationism works. Well, not exactley. They have to deal with globalization issues just like the rest of the world, they have employed a different strategy than the U.S. but it certainly can't be called isolationist or protectionist in nature.

Japan’s alternative economics, by Sanford M Jacoby

The flip side that Shogun seems to forget about is that in isolationism we aren't just talking about not importing other people's stuff. To be isolationist one would not EXPORT anything either. It's the exporting that throws a monkey wrench into the problem. It's really interesting Shogun, that you point to Japan as this economic model (which, again, you really know very little about) saying "we should do that" when employing such practices as large tariffs would crush their growing economy.

 

[Shogun]

And you are trying to eliminate choice. I had a very simple request. Show me this isolationist system that will improve or at the very least maintain everyone's living standatd and will never see a downturn.

Trying to frame your defense on an impossible standard won't make your pet system any less of a failure, dude. You don't HAVE a choice to undermine America for the sake of your pocketbook. Treason, motherfucker...

poor guy.. it must REALLY make you chaffe to see Mccain jumping on my side of the spectrum lately...


I'll be sure to outsource a tear for you.

 

[Shogun]

Actually lotteries like the Power ball and Mega millions offer a lump sum pay out because the money paid out comes directly from ticket sales. And yes Payment options do mean something. if you were as smart with money as you think then you would know that.

I STATED that payment options do mean something, yo. If you were as smart with the written language as you'd like to pretend then maybe you'd have caught that. Offered or not, IT;S NOT THE FIRST CHOICE OF THE LOTTERY.. or, are you stupid enough to make me remind you of the default 20 year payout option and the ruckus it caused not terribly long ago.. PLEASE tell me you are that stupid.


here I'll help you out with a little formula:
150 K invested at 5% will pay you 1000 a month for 20 years. So that 150K will pay you 240K. so in reality the networks are NOT giving a million dollars away are they? it is actually the initial 250K plus 468,750 (calculated using the above formula) so that million only cost the network 718,750.
And to think that the network convinced you that 718,750 is the same as one million dollars.
BOY AREN'T YOU A SMART FELLA?

Are you fucking kidding me? I guess Im going to have to quote myself since you ARE clearly that stupid..

SHOGUN post #274
Uh, for the same reason the Lottery chooses to do so? Because it is financially convenient for them to do so rather than throw down a lump sum?




GOOD JOB, DUDE! HEY, thanks for making my POINT! I mean, 770,000k sure the fuck DOES minimize my oint about game shows having to offer a deflated 1million rather than anything close to that number 15 years ago!










You're the one who said a million dollars is no big deal and anyone who has a million dollar net worth is nobody special.


Indeed, in relation to ACTUAL RICH PEOPLE one million dollars isn't shit anymore. WHICH is a direct indication of the lowered value of a dollar amount that YOU seem to think should make people cum in their pants.



What my competitors do is none of my business. All I can do is run an honest business and gee look at that i just won over some of my competitors clients. CAPITALISM how nice!



HA! honest.. sure, dude. THIS is why your system fails. THIS is why you don't create wealth so much as you simply take it from someone else. THIS is why your system producing the rotten fruit that we see in the headlines today. Enjoy. The Decline of Capitalism. How REAL.



that's not a denial



no, it's making fun of your ridiculous post. Given your above ability to totally miss a point I'd say your reply is par for the course.



Well moron there are a lot more people like me than there are like Paris. Using an extreme is never a good argument


Prove it. We've already deconstructed your laughable one million dollar standard so.. please.. go ahead and prove that YOU are the fucking poster child for the wealthy. I'll wait.




Take a hike to Norway asshole they'd love to support you.


No, again.. I think i'll go ahead and stick around and watch your ship go down in flames, pussy.. You'll be hugging up on a shiek in Dubai before it's all over with.


You have done nothing to prove your point other than to use profanity and name calling if you think that is an achievement, good for you.


Oh I KNOW.. recent and timely LINKS TO EVIDENCE sure don't prove my point! Hear any good MCCAIN quotes lately, motherfucker??

 

[Shogun]

]But that isn't an asumption anyone is justified to make. Like I said it is human nature to not look at oneself as to the reasons they have failed at something. Someone looses a job. Okay the simple answer as to why is to say that something about the business changed beyond their control that required the business no longer needing them.

hOly hand grenade, batman could that BE A MORE IRONIC STATEMENT? Say, how is it the STEEL workers fault that YOUR KIND wants to disregard the American SOL by buying STEEL from EU, DUDE? Is in American LABORS fault for not living like a fucking BEGGAR IN CALCUTTA?




The real answer occurs before then in the area of asking yourskef some questions about your chosen profession. I don't know if it just doesn't occur to people or what, but to Zoomie is right to a great extent and it all comes down to the skill set you possess. If you have a skill set that is limited such that a whole bunch of other people have them too you are more disposable than people that have a skill set that few people have. That isn't rocket science, as my physics teacher used to say, that is something that should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. There's hurdle number one in choosing a career.


oh yes.. EVERYONE in the US is JAVA PROGRAMMING MATERIAL!

Uncle bob the unskilled labor worker? fuck him, right? It isn't rocket science that he must either adapt to YOUR standards of society or starve, right? I mean, shit.. why DONT some housing contractor under the slump right now go ahead and throw away his hammer for a fucking mouse, eh?



Hurdle number two: Even if you have a sought after skill is it valuable enough to outweigh the enticement of setting up shop overseas. Businesses transfer jobs overseas for pretty much just one reason. It's cheap. So you have to ask yourself again am I choosing a career path that other things being equal or even other things takeing a bit of a back seat, that would stay in the U.S?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! oh hey.. Im glad you can finally admit that. Which is exactly why we need to reign in this practice and actually invest in America rather than your bullshit bank account. You know.. NOT being an entire nation of fucking JAVA programmers and all...


The point is all of these things, while you may not think about them much, you inuitively know about jobs and the job market, if you know even a monkey could do your job and that it may not be safe from foreign competition, what's the best option at that point? Sit there and pray that your company doesn't do that or that government steps in? Or take action yourself to expand your skill set and/or find a job that is less vulnerable to moving overseas.



This is the standard capitalist modus operandi. It's THEIR fault when OUR system fucks them in the ass. No, dude.. I think we'll go ahead and protect the American SOL rather than sell out to assholes like you. I'll ask you the same question.. HEAR ANY GOOD JOHN MCCAIN QUOTES LATELY?

 

[sealybobo]

Do you want to argue about SS again?

Even in 1994 It Slicky's budget was seen for what it really was: smoke and mirrors

http://http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n4_v46/ai_14885290



Congressional accounting rules are not to be trusted

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20070529/1a_lede29.art.htm

Modern accounting requires that corporations, state governments and local governments count expenses immediately when a transaction occurs, even if the payment will be made later.

The federal government does not follow the rule, so promises for Social Security and Medicare don't show up when the government reports its financial condition.


So even knowing the government shady accounting techniques (BTW this goes for democrats and republicans alike), you still want to believe there was a surplus. That's OK you have to believe in something I guess.

And you still seem to think i am a republican. I have been very clear that I am not and that I believe Bush is a moron and I don't agree with much of anything he's done. And yes i probably will vote for JM but i see it as a lesser of 2 evil thing. I don't believe JM or BHO will actually do anything but politics as usual so the devil i know is better than BHO.





If the deficit doesn't count in this conversation then neither does Iraq. And Katrina spending added to inflation as well so maybe we should add that into the mix no? Inflation runs in cycles like anything else

Stop it! You refuse to see my point. Using the same standard that told us Reagan, Bush and Bush 2 all had deficits, Clinton had a surplus.

Or how about this. The 3 GOP and Clinton were all given 10 apples. The 3 GOP ate 15 apples and Clinton only ate 12 apples. They all ate too many apples, but Clinton ate less apples.

Does that make you feel better?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Actually lotteries like the Power ball and Mega millions offer a lump sum pay out because the money paid out comes directly from ticket sales. And yes Payment options do mean something. if you were as smart with money as you think then you would know that.

I STATED that payment options do mean something, yo. If you were as smart with the written language as you'd like to pretend then maybe you'd have caught that. Offered or not, IT;S NOT THE FIRST CHOICE OF THE LOTTERY.. or, are you stupid enough to make me remind you of the default 20 year payout option and the ruckus it caused not terribly long ago.. PLEASE tell me you are that stupid.

no you said
Do you REALLY think that the payment options mean a DAMN thing

[

B]
here I'll help you out with a little formula:
150 K invested at 5% will pay you 1000 a month for 20 years. So that 150K will pay you 240K. so in reality the networks are NOT giving a million dollars away are they? it is actually the initial 250K plus 468,750 (calculated using the above formula) so that million only cost the network 718,750.
And to think that the network convinced you that 718,750 is the same as one million dollars.
BOY AREN'T YOU A SMART FELLA?[/B]

Are you fucking kidding me? I guess Im going to have to quote myself since you ARE clearly that stupid..

SHOGUN post #274
Uh, for the same reason the Lottery chooses to do so? Because it is financially convenient for them to do so rather than throw down a lump sum?

you contradict yourself either they mean a "damn thing" or they don't.

GOOD JOB, DUDE! HEY, thanks for making my POINT! I mean, 770,000k sure the fuck DOES minimize my oint about game shows having to offer a deflated 1million rather than anything close to that number 15 years ago!










You're the one who said a million dollars is no big deal and anyone who has a million dollar net worth is nobody special.


Indeed, in relation to ACTUAL RICH PEOPLE one million dollars isn't shit anymore. WHICH is a direct indication of the lowered value of a dollar amount that YOU seem to think should make people cum in their pants.

What I said was a million net worth is a milestone and I also said that a million is not what it once was but it is still a significant sum.

What my competitors do is none of my business. All I can do is run an honest business and gee look at that i just won over some of my competitors clients. CAPITALISM how nice!

HA! honest.. sure, dude. THIS is why your system fails. THIS is why you don't create wealth so much as you simply take it from someone else. THIS is why your system producing the rotten fruit that we see in the headlines today. Enjoy. The Decline of Capitalism. How REAL.

You have no idea what I do or how I conduct my business.

Small businesses are job creators. Office of Advocacy funded data and research shows that small businesses represent 99.7 percent of all firms, they create more than half of the private non-farm gross domestic product, and they create 60 to 80 percent of the net new jobs.

http://http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/smallbusiness/a/sbadrives.htm


[B

]that's not a denial

[/B]

no, it's making fun of your ridiculous post. Given your above ability to totally miss a point I'd say your reply is par for the course.



Well moron there are a lot more people like me than there are like Paris. Using an extreme is never a good argument


Prove it. We've already deconstructed your laughable one million dollar standard so.. please.. go ahead and prove that YOU are the fucking poster child for the wealthy. I'll wait. ::

You prove that there are more Paris Hilton's than there are small business owners.

Take a hike to Norway asshole they'd love to support you.

No, again.. I think i'll go ahead and stick around and watch your ship go down in flames, pussy.. You'll be hugging up on a shiek in Dubai before it's all over with.

Not going to happen because unlike you who want everyone else to foot your bill, i will work for what I get under any presidential administration.

You have done nothing to prove your point other than to use profanity and name calling if you think that is an achievement, good for you.

Oh I KNOW.. recent and timely LINKS TO EVIDENCE sure don't prove my point! Hear any good MCCAIN quotes lately, motherfucker??

[/QUOTE]

I haven't seen one link from you in this discussion.

 

[Shogun]

Here is an interesting article about the Japanese economic turnaround, seeing as how Shogun likes to point to them as being this beacon of how well isolationism works. Well, not exactley. They have to deal with globalization issues just like the rest of the world, they have employed a different strategy than the U.S. but it certainly can't be called isolationist or protectionist in nature.

Japan’s alternative economics, by Sanford M Jacoby

The flip side that Shogun seems to forget about is that in isolationism we aren't just talking about not importing other people's stuff. To be isolationist one would not EXPORT anything either. It's the exporting that throws a monkey wrench into the problem. It's really interesting Shogun, that you point to Japan as this economic model (which, again, you really know very little about) saying "we should do that" when employing such practices as large tariffs would crush their growing economy.

uh, are you suggesting, FOR INSTANCE, that japan imports as many FORDS as WE import toyotas?


Exports from Japan to U.S.

With a population of 127.3 million, Japan exported US$145.5 billion worth of merchandise to the United States in 2007, a 1.8% decrease from 2006 and up by 23.2% in 4 years. The following product categories represent about 59% of Japanese exports to America.

1. New and used passenger cars … US$43.6 billion (30% of Japan-to-U.S. exports) – up 0.1% from 2006
2. Other automotive parts and accessories … $10 billion (6.9%) – down 3.7%
3. Other industrial machinery … $6.7 billion (4.6%) – up 17.3%
4. Computer accessories … $5.5 billion (3.8%) – up 2.7%
5. Electric apparatus and parts … $4 billion (2.7%) – down 2.7%
6. Engines and engine parts … $3.8 billion (2.6%) – down 4.7%
7. Semiconductors … $3.5 billion (2.4%) – up 2.5%
8. Machine tools, metal working, molding and rolling … $3 billion (2.1%) – down 19.7%
9. Telecommunications equipment … $2.7 billion (1.9%) – down 4.9%
10. Motorcycles and parts … $2.6 billion (1.8%) – down 17.9%.


Japanese Imports from America

Japanese imports from the U.S. rose by 5.1% to $62.7 billion in 2007, up 20.5% since 2003.

Of American exports to Japan in 2007, the following product categories had the highest values and in total represented 60% of all U.S. shipments into Japan.

1. Complete civilian aircraft … US$4.2 billion (6.6% of Japanese imports from America) – up 18.8% from 2006
2. Other industrial machines … $2.9 billion (4.6%) – up 23%
3. Corn … $2.6 billion (4.2%) – up 33.9%
4. Medicinal equipment … $2.5 billion (4.1%) – down 4.6%
5. Telecommunications equipment … $2 billion (3.3%) – down 0.6%
6. Semiconductors … $1.7 billion (2.8%) – down 15.9%
7. Pharmaceutical preparations … $1.68 billion (2.7%) – down 6.5%
8. Organic chemicals … $1.67 billion (2.7%) – up 17.1%
9. Measuring, testing and control instruments … $1.5 billion (2.4%) – down 10.1%
10. Civilian aircraft parts … $1.5 billion (2.4%) – up 7.6%.


Top Japanese Imports & Exports in 2007: Civilian Aircraft, Industrial Machines & Corn Lead Imports from U.S.


Do YOU see a fucking comparable ratio in the AUTO industry in the second list? Do you know that the difference is between 145.5 billion and 62.7 billion is?

 

[Bern80]

Trying to frame your defense on an impossible standard won't make your pet system any less of a failure, dude. You don't HAVE a choice to undermine America for the sake of your pocketbook. Treason, motherfucker...

You are complaining about the plight that you believe so many people are experienceing because of the current economic system. To cure that you want to change the system. Right now you're blaming me and people like me (ridiculous as that is) for the current situation, therefore I expect you to have no one but yourself to blame if (and more likely when) your system experiences a downturn. Is that somehow unreasonable?

You won't offer a cure all solution that won't fail because you know you can't. That means your system shares the very similarity that you are shrieking about now, that being that it is not immune from slowdowns, downturns, or recessions.

poor guy.. it must REALLY make you chaffe to see Mccain jumping on my side of the spectrum lately...


I'll be sure to outsource a tear for you.

It's called pandering. It's not new.

 

[Bern80]

uh, are you suggesting, FOR INSTANCE, that japan imports as many FORDS as WE import toyotas?


Exports from Japan to U.S.

With a population of 127.3 million, Japan exported US$145.5 billion worth of merchandise to the United States in 2007, a 1.8% decrease from 2006 and up by 23.2% in 4 years. The following product categories represent about 59% of Japanese exports to America.

1. New and used passenger cars … US$43.6 billion (30% of Japan-to-U.S. exports) – up 0.1% from 2006
2. Other automotive parts and accessories … $10 billion (6.9%) – down 3.7%
3. Other industrial machinery … $6.7 billion (4.6%) – up 17.3%
4. Computer accessories … $5.5 billion (3.8%) – up 2.7%
5. Electric apparatus and parts … $4 billion (2.7%) – down 2.7%
6. Engines and engine parts … $3.8 billion (2.6%) – down 4.7%
7. Semiconductors … $3.5 billion (2.4%) – up 2.5%
8. Machine tools, metal working, molding and rolling … $3 billion (2.1%) – down 19.7%
9. Telecommunications equipment … $2.7 billion (1.9%) – down 4.9%
10. Motorcycles and parts … $2.6 billion (1.8%) – down 17.9%.


Japanese Imports from America

Japanese imports from the U.S. rose by 5.1% to $62.7 billion in 2007, up 20.5% since 2003.

Of American exports to Japan in 2007, the following product categories had the highest values and in total represented 60% of all U.S. shipments into Japan.

1. Complete civilian aircraft … US$4.2 billion (6.6% of Japanese imports from America) – up 18.8% from 2006
2. Other industrial machines … $2.9 billion (4.6%) – up 23%
3. Corn … $2.6 billion (4.2%) – up 33.9%
4. Medicinal equipment … $2.5 billion (4.1%) – down 4.6%
5. Telecommunications equipment … $2 billion (3.3%) – down 0.6%
6. Semiconductors … $1.7 billion (2.8%) – down 15.9%
7. Pharmaceutical preparations … $1.68 billion (2.7%) – down 6.5%
8. Organic chemicals … $1.67 billion (2.7%) – up 17.1%
9. Measuring, testing and control instruments … $1.5 billion (2.4%) – down 10.1%
10. Civilian aircraft parts … $1.5 billion (2.4%) – up 7.6%.


Top Japanese Imports & Exports in 2007: Civilian Aircraft, Industrial Machines & Corn Lead Imports from U.S.


Do YOU see a fucking comparable ratio in the AUTO industry in the second list? Do you know that the difference is between 145.5 billion and 62.7 billion is?

Yes of course both our economies rely solely on automobiles. Way to miss the point completely.

My point was in Japan's exporting, not just to us, but other countries (China is actually their largest trade partner). You keep pointing to them as this great model of how well isolationism works. Well they aren't isolationist at all. Isolationism would include not EXPORTING anything either. You seem to have A fundamental disconnect going as to how global economies work, so here are a couple easy quesiton:

Would Japan have the booming economy it is having if America and other countries weren't buying their stuff?

What effect would enacting large tarriffs have on Japan's economic boom?

The disconnect is you point to Japan claiming that is the way things could be here, but they only reason they are growing is because of the way they are competing in the GLOBAL economy. The very thing you are pointing to as evidence of your argument doesn't work if other countries start employing the stringent, protectionist trade barriers that you are advocating.

 

[Bern80]

hOly hand grenade, batman could that BE A MORE IRONIC STATEMENT? Say, how is it the STEEL workers fault that YOUR KIND wants to disregard the American SOL by buying STEEL from EU, DUDE? Is in American LABORS fault for not living like a fucking BEGGAR IN CALCUTTA?

Do you really not get how cost saving measures help a business and buy extension help it's employees?

oh yes.. EVERYONE in the US is JAVA PROGRAMMING MATERIAL!

Again using extremes doesn't give you much credibility. You know and I know Java programmers are far from the only jobs in demand in the country.

Uncle bob the unskilled labor worker? fuck him, right? It isn't rocket science that he must either adapt to YOUR standards of society or starve, right? I mean, shit.. why DONT some housing contractor under the slump right now go ahead and throw away his hammer for a fucking mouse, eh?

Another simple question: if you don't adapt or something keeps you from haveing to adapt, what will happen to you?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! oh hey.. Im glad you can finally admit that. Which is exactly why we need to reign in this practice and actually invest in America rather than your bullshit bank account. You know.. NOT being an entire nation of fucking JAVA programmers and all...

I never didn't admit it, it's kind of a given in our pseudo-free market system. Businesses need to maximize profits and will stay loyal for as long as they can afford to. Pretty simple.

This is the standard capitalist modus operandi. It's THEIR fault when OUR system fucks them in the ass. No, dude.. I think we'll go ahead and protect the American SOL rather than sell out to assholes like you. I'll ask you the same question.. HEAR ANY GOOD JOHN MCCAIN QUOTES LATELY?

Yes how unreasonable to ask people to share a modicum of foresight. Let's take an extreme case. Little Johnny wants to go to school to be a painter. There probably won't be a huge demand for his work, but according to you we should prop little Johnny up anyway even though he CHOSE a profession that will make it fairly difficult to maintain much of a standard of living.

 

[Shogun]

You are complaining about the plight that you believe so many people are experienceing because of the current economic system. To cure that you want to change the system. Right now you're blaming me and people like me (ridiculous as that is) for the current situation, therefore I expect you to have no one but yourself to blame if (and more likely when) your system experiences a downturn. Is that somehow unreasonable?

You won't offer a cure all solution that won't fail because you know you can't. That means your system shares the very similarity that you are shrieking about now, that being that it is not immune from slowdowns, downturns, or recessions.


I've given my suggestions as soon as you asked. Do I need to repeat myself of quote my post? Asking for a CURE ALL solution is exactly the impossible hurdle that you think validates YOUR current failures. Trust me, dude. It's about as laughable as every effort you've made at deflecting my actual points during this thread. And, while MY system may have flaws for you piggly capitalists it benefits the MAJORITY of Americans without having to risk absolute destitution for the offhand whimsical chance of absolute wealth.




It's called pandering. It's not new.

Oh I know, dude! and the fact that it's SELLING to the people must rub you raw right now, eh? I suggest you take a gander outside your window at all those paupers eating cake and realize that their realities amount to more than your theoretical bullshit.

 

[Shogun]

Yes of course both our economies rely solely on automobiles. Way to miss the point completely.

Im comparing SPECIFIC markets. Which of us is missing the point again?



My point was in Japan's exporting, not just to us, but other countries (China is actually their largest trade partner). You keep pointing to them as this great model of how well isolationism works. Well they aren't isolationist at all. Isolationism would include not EXPORTING anything either. You seem to have A fundamental disconnect going as to how global economies work, so here are a couple easy quesiton:


Hey, i have no problem with exporting a comparable amount to what we IMPORT. But, I guess this is where you totally fucking avoid the relative import/export numbers I bolded and made a larger font size, eh? And YOU seem to think that your jargon, in light of evidence, makes any difference to anyone but you. You wanna hide behind definitions and nomenclature then so be it. You still fucking fail, dude.



Would Japan have the booming economy it is having if America and other countries weren't buying their stuff?

Of course not. AND, in reverse, would WE BE SUFFERING ECONOMICALLY IF THEY WERE BUYING A COMPARABLE FUCKING AMOUNT OF STUFF?

AGAIN.. HERE ARE THE FUCKING NUMBERS:

US$145.5 billion
US62.7 billion


DO THE FUCKING MATH.




What effect would enacting large tarriffs have on Japan's economic boom?

They would have to find another nation to take advantage of in their close market system. Another nation that is NOT the United Fucking States.



The disconnect is you point to Japan claiming that is the way things could be here, but they only reason they are growing is because of the way they are competing in the GLOBAL economy. The very thing you are pointing to as evidence of your argument doesn't work if other countries start employing the stringent, protectionist trade barriers that you are advocating.


YOU asked for a comparable SOL in a closed market system. THIS is why I point at Japan. If you put as much effort in deciphering what I actually SAID rather than what you thing alleviates your fucking failure in this thread you might get somewhere. Clearly, if we exproted MORE than we imported we'd have a fucking boom. Guess how that DOESNT reflect our trade under you free trade fucktards. If we all close the door then we all adapt. What we DONT do is sell out our own nations for the sake of 2% who really dont give the first rats ass about anything outside of their progeny gene pool.



THE NUMBERS ARE NOT GELLING WITH YOUR BULLSHIT, DUDE.

 

[Shogun]

Yes of course both our economies rely solely on automobiles. Way to miss the point completely.

Im comparing SPECIFIC markets. Which of us is missing the point again?



My point was in Japan's exporting, not just to us, but other countries (China is actually their largest trade partner). You keep pointing to them as this great model of how well isolationism works. Well they aren't isolationist at all. Isolationism would include not EXPORTING anything either. You seem to have A fundamental disconnect going as to how global economies work, so here are a couple easy quesiton:


Hey, i have no problem with exporting a comparable amount to what we IMPORT. But, I guess this is where you totally fucking avoid the relative import/export numbers I bolded and made a larger font size, eh? And YOU seem to think that your jargon, in light of evidence, makes any difference to anyone but you. You wanna hide behind definitions and nomenclature then so be it. You still fucking fail, dude.



Would Japan have the booming economy it is having if America and other countries weren't buying their stuff?

Of course not. AND, in reverse, would WE BE SUFFERING ECONOMICALLY IF THEY WERE BUYING A COMPARABLE FUCKING AMOUNT OF STUFF?

AGAIN.. HERE ARE THE FUCKING NUMBERS:

US$145.5 billion
US62.7 billion


DO THE FUCKING MATH.




What effect would enacting large tarriffs have on Japan's economic boom?

They would have to find another nation to take advantage of in their close market system. Another nation that is NOT the United Fucking States.



The disconnect is you point to Japan claiming that is the way things could be here, but they only reason they are growing is because of the way they are competing in the GLOBAL economy. The very thing you are pointing to as evidence of your argument doesn't work if other countries start employing the stringent, protectionist trade barriers that you are advocating.


YOU asked for a comparable SOL in a closed market system. THIS is why I point at Japan. If you put as much effort in deciphering what I actually SAID rather than what you thing alleviates your fucking failure in this thread you might get somewhere. Clearly, if we exproted MORE than we imported we'd have a fucking boom. Guess how that DOESNT reflect our trade under you free trade fucktards. If we all close the door then we all adapt. What we DONT do is sell out our own nations for the sake of 2% who really dont give the first rats ass about anything outside of their progeny gene pool.



THE NUMBERS ARE NOT GELLING WITH YOUR BULLSHIT, DUDE.