Expanded background checks fails in Senate

[Vast LWC]

Federal law stops it.

Since 85% of all guns used in crimes were sold through a private no-background check sale, I'd say that, clearly, it does not.

Its enforceable.

How would any law that is dependent on the sellers knowledge of the buyer's personal history be enforceable?

Even if a seller knows for a fact that the person he is selling to is a mass murderer, there's no way he would be convicted, because there's no way to prove what he knew, and when.

The legislation today didn't block straw purchases, those are already illegal.

Again, illegality is a moot point if there is no mechanism for enforcement.

 

[poet]

Senate rejects expanded gun background checks - CNN.com

Un fucking believable. The NRA has the Republican Congress by the shorthairs. Only thing to do is to vote them out.

 

[Vast LWC]

Isn't it amazing how stupid people are concerning fast and furious. It was already illegal for the purchases to be made. And the dealers knew it. The ATF ordered them to make the illegal sales. Without the ATF giving that order almost none of those sales would have occurred.

Again, the straw purchasers had previous convictions for making straw purchasers?

If not, how, exactly, would the dealers "know it"?

And even if they did "know it", how would that be provable in court?

What would have stopped them from selling to said purchasers if the feds had never visited them in the first place?

 

[Ravi]

Senate rejects expanded gun background checks - CNN.com

How stupid can they be? Seriously.

Oh yes... definitely... it always stupid to uphold the constitution... right?

But to answer your question, well, obama got elected not once but twice so, PRETTY FUCKING STUPID is your answer.

There's nothing unconstitutional about background checks. And I totally understand why you fear them.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Federal law stops it.

Since 85% of all guns used in crimes were sold through a private no-background check sale, I'd say that, clearly, it does not.

Its enforceable.

How would any law that is dependent on the sellers knowledge of the buyer's personal history be enforceable?

Even if a seller knows for a fact that the person he is selling to is a mass murderer, there's no way he would be convicted, because there's no way to prove what he knew, and when.

The legislation today didn't block straw purchases, those are already illegal.

Again, illegality is a moot point if there is no mechanism for enforcement.

If you know the gun was sold illegally....punish the seller.

The onus is upon the seller. Enforce it.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Again, the straw purchasers had previous convictions for making straw purchasers?

You can't be a straw purchaser and have any felony convictions.

 

[Vast LWC]

Define "universal" background checks.

Do you mean Federally Mandated Nationwide, every state must comply, background checks?

Do you think that States do not have a say in their own methods?

I'll tell you what, for any weapon that is completely manufactured in the state that it is sold in, and said state has lax background check rules, you could claim constitutional grounds.

However, any weapon, or part of a weapon, that crosses state lines, then falls under the jurisdiction of the federal government.

Since that will cover a VAST majority of guns, I'm not too worried about that particular loophole.

 

[Mustang]

Can you point to even one prosecution of a private citizen who sold a gun to another private citizen who would have otherwise failed a background check if one had been conducted but wasn't done because it was not a legal requirement?

Nope. Sad isnt it ? Enforcing the existing law would really go a long way.

You can't prosecute someone for not performing a task they're not required to do, thereby not knowing the legal status of the person who wants to purchase a gun they're offering for sale. If a background check was required, it would be a different story.

You're confusing this situation with a different situation when a prospective buyer ATTEMPTS to purchase a gun from a licensed gun dealer and fails the legally required background check. In such a case, the attempted buyer would have been aware that he was not legally permitted to purchase a gun but tried to buy one anyway.

Those are two totally different situations, legally, and otherwise.

 

[earlycuyler]

How stupid can they be? Seriously.

Oh yes... definitely... it always stupid to uphold the constitution... right?

But to answer your question, well, obama got elected not once but twice so, PRETTY FUCKING STUPID is your answer.

There's nothing unconstitutional about background checks. And I totally understand why you fear them.

No, but thees background checks were pointless and really just a waste of time when thees morons could have been working on important stuff and not grandstanding for political brownie points. This bill did nothing to remedy mass shootings at all.

 

[OKTexas]

when did the right begin hating democracy?

When it threatened their power. If you need a recent example, I can point out Obama's 2012 win. That's when the right toyed with the idea of changing electoral laws to apportion electoral votes proportionally which could mean that a candidate could win the popular vote and still lose the election (kinda like Gore in 2000 but on a more regular basis as opposed to the occasional fluke).

Republicans want to change laws on Electoral College votes, after presidential losses | Fox News

Yep that would put a stop to largely dem controlled metro areas cancelling the votes of the suburban areas, a real representative system, a dems nightmare.

 

[Vast LWC]

If you know the gun was sold illegally....punish the seller.

The onus is upon the seller. Enforce it.

Which you can't do, if you can't prove the gun was sold illegally.

Which is the point.

All the seller has to do is claim he did not know the history of the buyer, and he can sell to whomever he wants to.

 

[Vast LWC]

Again, the straw purchasers had previous convictions for making straw purchasers?

You can't be a straw purchaser and have any felony convictions.

And thus, you cannot prove a person is a straw purchaser when he is buying the weapons.

Catch 22.

Making said law unenforceable.

 

[Vast LWC]

No, but thees background checks were pointless and really just a waste of time when thees morons could have been working on important stuff and not grandstanding for political brownie points. This bill did nothing to remedy mass shootings at all.

But it DID do something to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals and the insane, thus helping to reduce gun violence in general.

And I believe just about everyone agrees that criminals and the insane should not be armed.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Again, the straw purchasers had previous convictions for making straw purchasers?

You can't be a straw purchaser and have any felony convictions.

And thus, you cannot prove a person is a straw purchaser when he is buying the weapons

except in the case of fast n furious

some of the purchasers of firearms are criminals which ATF waived through

to purchase the firearms

 

[007]

How stupid can they be? Seriously.

Oh yes... definitely... it always stupid to uphold the constitution... right?

But to answer your question, well, obama got elected not once but twice so, PRETTY FUCKING STUPID is your answer.

There's nothing unconstitutional about background checks. And I totally understand why you fear them.

We already have background checks, and I totally understand why you fear law abiding citizens.

 

[OriginalShroom]

Just so that we're completely clear...

Anyone who was against this bill does not have the right to say another word about "Fast and Furious". Ever. Again.

I'm a gun owner, a supporter of open carry laws, and a I'm against any kind of assault weapon ban...

But this one was a no-brainer.

Bullshit.

Obama's people told FFL dealers to sell guns that they knew were in violation of the law.

Obama and his people are guilty of being responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people on both sides of the order.

 

[OKTexas]

So all that was accomplished today is that the gun nuts got to preserve the ability of felons and crazy people to legally dodge background checks.

No dumb ass, felons are already prohibited from buying a gun so tell be again how this will allow them to legally dodge a background check.

 

[lukelk]

Yes republicans fuckedmthem selves on this one

 

[Mustang]

when did the right begin hating democracy?

When it threatened their power. If you need a recent example, I can point out Obama's 2012 win. That's when the right toyed with the idea of changing electoral laws to apportion electoral votes proportionally which could mean that a candidate could win the popular vote and still lose the election (kinda like Gore in 2000 but on a more regular basis as opposed to the occasional fluke).

Republicans want to change laws on Electoral College votes, after presidential losses | Fox News

Yep that would put a stop to largely dem controlled metro areas cancelling the votes of the suburban areas, a real representative system, a dems nightmare.

Suburban areas ARE part of metropolitan areas!

 

[ScienceRocks]

Why are you vast LWC so closed minded? You can see that many died in fast and furious and that gun control works about as good as drug control.