Faith:

[AVG-JOE]

With the possible exception of the whole truth thingy.

The truth is that our knowledge ends at death and everything after that point is imaginative speculation, or reliance on the imaginative speculation of another Monkey with a pen.

Joe, did you die and get stupid and then come back to tells us about the end of knowledge, at the shedding of our clay shell, or is that speculation on your part?

We are spirit, cloaked in clay. What makes you think spirits loose their memory, or start from scratch whenever we travel on without the pottery?

Stupid is a matter of opinion and you're entitled to yours... Personally, I don't judge myself as thick in the head.


I hope you're right on the 'Spirit' thing Irish, and I'm confident that if you are, I'll be just fine... but I'm still going to ride this one and only Monkey life that I know I get like it's the only one I'll have.

I'm certainly not going to adjust that because of the ancient stories. Considering what Monkeys have learned in the last 2,000 years, it just doesn't make any sense to me to do so, but that's me and MY Monkey splash to make.

 

[HUGGY]

I have faith our species is doomed. There are just too many of us wrapped up in willfull ignorance. I used to have faith in humans. Now I do not. Something will come along and threaten our survival and we will be too stupid to reason a solution. I don't even think it is sad any more. We are too ignorant to deserve a future.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Sorry to hear that Huggy.

I have faith that Momma's little bastard Monkeys are finally on their way to the stars and I'm running long in the market.

WYGD?

 

[AVG-JOE]

You kids ROCK!!

 

[CMike]

So what's with the monkey fetish?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Dude.... It's not 'monkey', it's 'Monkey'.

As in 'Primate who is Sentient'.

The dogs may be driving the Jeep, but I'm the Monkey with a keyboard.

 

[Steelplate]

I have faith our species is doomed. There are just too many of us wrapped up in willfull ignorance. I used to have faith in humans. Now I do not. Something will come along and threaten our survival and we will be too stupid to reason a solution. I don't even think it is sad any more. We are too ignorant to deserve a future.

No...it won't be stupidity...it'll.be because some.part of the conglomerate makes a shit ton of money by ignoring that threat to our survival thinking they still have plenty of time to make money fo a few more years.

 

[CMike]

Oh, but he did, and no one else has.
The one who claimed to be your Messiah, fulfilled these prophesies of His grandfather, David. (through the lineage of His mother, a descendant of David) <prophesy
So, will your Messiah be treated like this when he arrives? Or was David's word untrustworthy?
Or has there been one that was already treated like this:

Tribal lineage goes solely by the father. If the father is unknown he is considered part of the general population. He was an Israelite.

It doesn't matter what Mary was.

This is how we know.

Numbers Chapter 1

4 And with you there shall be a man of every tribe; every one head of the house of his fathers.

5 And these are the names of the men that shall stand with you: of the tribe of Reuben; Elizur the son of Shedeur.


6 Of Simeon; Shelumiel the son of Zurishaddai.


7 Of Judah; Nahshon the son of Amminadab.


8 Of Issachar; Nethaneel the son of Zuar.


9 Of Zebulun; Eliab the son of Helon.


10 Of the children of Joseph: of Ephraim; Elishama the son of Ammihud: of Manasseh; Gamaliel the son of Pedahzur.


11 Of Benjamin; Abidan the son of Gideoni.


12 Of Dan; Ahiezer the son of Ammishaddai.


13 Of Asher; Pagiel the son of Ocran.


14 Of Gad; Eliasaph the son of Deuel.


15 Of Naphtali; Ahira the son of Enan.


16 These were the renowned of the congregation, princes of the tribes of their fathers, heads of thousands in Israel.


17 And Moses and Aaron took these men which are expressed by their names:


18 And they assembled all the congregation together on the first day of the second month, and they declared their pedigrees after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, by their polls.


19 As the LORD commanded Moses, so he numbered them in the wilderness of Sinai.


20 And the children of Reuben, Israel's eldest son, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, by their polls, every male from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war;


21 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Reuben, were forty and six thousand and five hundred.


22 Of the children of Simeon, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, those that were numbered of them, according to the number of the names, by their polls, every male from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war;


23 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Simeon, were fifty and nine thousand and three hundred.


24 Of the children of Gad, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war;


25 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Gad, were forty and five thousand six hundred and fifty.


26 Of the children of Judah, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war;


27 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Judah, were threescore and fourteen thousand and six hundred.


28 Of the children of Issachar, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war;


29 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Issachar, were fifty and four thousand and four hundred.


30 Of the children of Zebulun, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war;


31 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Zebulun, were fifty and seven thousand and four hundred.


32 Of the children of Joseph, namely, of the children of Ephraim, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war;


33 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Ephraim, were forty thousand and five hundred.


34 Of the children of Manasseh, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war;


35 Those that were numbered of them, even of the tribe of Manasseh, were thirty and two thousand and two hundred.


36 Of the children of Benjamin, by their generations, after their families, by the house of their fathers, according to the number of the names, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war;



Psalm 22:

Written by King David a millennium before Christ, gives us the very perspective of the Lord hanging on the cross. It describes how the people mocked Christ (Psalm 22:7-8; Mat 27:41-43),

David is talking about Israel.

how they cast lots to divide up his clothes (Psalm 22:18;Mat 27:35), how his bones were out of joint (Psalm 22:14), how the wicked had surrounded him and pierced his hands and feet (Psalm 22:16)

16. My strength became dried out like a potsherd, and my tongue cleaves to my palate; and You set me down in the dust of death.

No piercing.

It's still talking about Israel.

And again, your prophet -Zechariah 12:10

"And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced…"

10. And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to me because of those who have been thrust through [with swords], and they shall mourn over it as one mourns over an only son and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is embittered over a firstborn son.

No piercings again.

That the Messiah of your choice, has not yet come to fulfill the words of your prophet, doesn't remove the fact that there was a man that did fulfill them. Whether or not you chose to accept that man as your Messiah, doesn't change anything.

The odds are correct.

Below are the actual prophesies. My comments are in blue.


Michah 4

3. And he shall judge between many peoples and reprove mighty nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nations shall not lift the sword against nation; neither shall they learn war anymore. Word Peace

Ezekiel 37

22. And I will make them into one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be to them all as a king; and they shall no longer be two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore. One unified king

23. And they shall no longer defile themselves with their idols, with their detestable things, or with all their transgressions, and I will save them from all their habitations in which they have sinned, and I will purify them, and they shall be to Me as a people, and I will be to them as a God.All nations will worship one G-D

25. And they shall dwell on the land that I have given to My servant, to Jacob, wherein your forefathers lived; and they shall dwell upon it, they and their children and their children's children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever.All the jews will stay in Israel forever

26. And I will form a covenant of peace for them, an everlasting covenant shall be with them; and I will establish them and I will multiply them, and I will place My Sanctuary in their midst forever.The temple in jeruslem will be rebuilt and stand forever.

After Jesus the opposite occurred. The temple was destroyed.

When the real messiah comes all these prophesies will be fulfilled.

That's how the jews will know he is the messiah.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I was just teasing you Joe about the death, absence of knowledge, speculation thing. Wouldn't you have to die to know that?

About living your life in it's fullness, you and Paul:

1 Thessalonians 4:10-12
But we urge you, brethren, that you increase more and more; that you also aspire to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you, that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing.

But keep in mind that every prophesy that needed to be fulfilled before Christ could return has been fulfilled, so while living life, be on the lookout for your promotion:

Matthew 24:42-46
"Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing"

Huggy, you're right about mankind. Your prediction of doom is also prophesy.
But so is this, that Christ is returning and peace and good will are coming with Him.
Maranatha.

 

[AVG-JOE]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5YeIiLkhnc]And the beat goes on - Sonny & Cher - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Irish Ram]

CMike,
Traditional Judaism uses matrilineal descent to determine Jewish status.
Because you always know who a child's mother is, but not who his father might be.
In all other things (tribal affiliation, priestly status, royalty, etc.) Jews use patrilineal descent.
Mary is a descendant of David. David is from the tribe of Judah.< Prophesy of Jesus, fulfilled through both Mary, and David.

If all of your prophets foretold of your Messiah so you would recognize Him, how will you recognize Him is you replace Him, (pronoun) with Israel? (noun)

Israel has no feet or hands to pierce, no clothes. Israel was never hung on a tree, was never betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, never road a donkey, was never executed between thieves, or buried in a rich man's grave, never offered gall, wasn't born of a virgin, etc.

Allegory only goes so far........... Then there's Christ:

1. He would be born of a Virgin (Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:18).
2. He would be of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10 and Luke 3:23, 33).
3. He would be of King David's seed (Jeremiah 23:5 and Luke 3:23, 31).
4. He would be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2 and Matthew 2:1).
5. He would be a prophet (Deuteronomy 18:18-19 and Matthew 21:11).
6. He would teach with parables (Psalms 78:2 and Matthew 13:34).
7. He would be preceded by a messenger (Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1, and Matthew 3:1-2).
8. He would enter Jerusalem on a colt (Zechariah 9:9 and Luke 19:35-37).
9. He would be betrayed by a friend (Psalms 41:9 and Matthew 26:47-50).
10. He would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12 and Matthew 26:15).
11. He would be forsaken by His disciples (Zechariah 13:7 and Mark 14:50).
12. The money would be thrown in the temple and used to buy the potter's field (Zechariah 11:13 and Matthew 27:5-7).
13. He would be accused by false witnesses (Psalms 35:11 and Matthew 26:59-60).
14. He would be silent before His accusers (Isaiah 53:7 and Matthew 27:12-14).
15. He would be beaten by his enemies (Isaiah 50:6, 53:5, and Matthew 27:26).
16. He would be spit upon and beaten (Isaiah 50:6 and Matthew 27:30).
17. He would be struck in the head with a rod (Micah 5:1 and Matthew 27:30).
18. He would be mocked (Psalms 22:7-8 and Matthew 27:29, 31).
19. His hands and feet would be pierced (Psalms 22:16, Luke 23:33, and John 20:25).
Note that this was predicted hundreds of years before crucifixion was invented.
20. Men would gamble for His clothing (Psalms 22:18 and John 19:23-24).
21. He would intercede in prayer for His transgressors (Isaiah 53:12 and Luke 23:34).
22. He would suffer thirst (Psalms 22:15 and John 19:28).
23. He would be offered gall and water (Psalms 69:21 and Matthew 27:34).
24. He would cry, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me!" (Psalms 22:1 and Matthew 27:46).
25. He would be cut down in His prime (Psalms 89:45 and 102:23-24).
26. None of His bones would be broken (Exodus 12:46, Psalms 34:20, and John 19:32-33).
27. They would look upon Him whom they had pierced (Zechariah 12:10 and John 19:34).
28. He would be executed with thieves (Isaiah 53:12 and Matthew 27:38).
29. He would be buried in a rich man's tomb (Isaiah 53:9 and Matthew 27:57-60).

Not all of these things happened to Israel, but there is one man who they all did happen to.

1 person fulfilling 8 prophecies: 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000
1 person fulfilling 48 prophecies: 1 chance in 10 to the 157th power
1 person fulfilling 300+ prophecies: The Messiah

 

[HUGGY]

Sorry to hear that Huggy.

I have faith that Momma's little bastard Monkeys are finally on their way to the stars and I'm running long in the market.

WYGD?

I'm sorry too. I'm a realist though and looking at the numbers playing the god game our prospects appear dismal. If a threat presents itself and it is a no-brainer we might stumble to a solution. It is more likely that the far right republicans and the fundi christians will use the impending catastrophe as a means to make Obama or some other political opponent look bad. They will call it a war on christianity and dig in thier heals no matter what they could have done to co-operate and solve the problem.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Christians can't make Obama look any worse than he already does...............

 

[HUGGY]

Christians can't make Obama look any worse than he already does...............

You people are so stupid you would put the whole world and all of it's inhabitants at risk or destruction if it might add to your perception that Obama or someone like him is at fault for all problems we face.

You are a perfect example. You and people like you are the evil that will kill us. You wear your ignorance like a medal. I concede you are the winners and we all are the losers.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Muslims will kill us. A 17 trillion dollar debt will kill us. Re-distribution of America's wealth will kill us. No jobs will kill us.
Christians have been here long enough for you to realize that church isn't what's killing this country.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Muslims will kill us. A 17 trillion dollar debt will kill us. Re-distribution of America's wealth will kill us. No jobs will kill us.
Christians have been here long enough for you to realize that church isn't what's killing this country.

Nothing is 'killing' us... Evolution hurts, that's all.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Muslims will kill us. A 17 trillion dollar debt will kill us. Re-distribution of America's wealth will kill us. No jobs will kill us.
Christians have been here long enough for you to realize that church isn't what's killing this country.

Stupidly denying global climate change will kill us. Stupidly enforcing austerity will kill us. Stupidly obstructing jobs bills will kill us. Stupidly obstructing Obamacare will kill us. Stupidly wanting to start wars against Muslims will kill us.

Stupidity kills.

 

[CMike]

CMike,
Traditional Judaism uses matrilineal descent to determine Jewish status.
Because you always know who a child's mother is, but not who his father might be.
In all other things (tribal affiliation, priestly status, royalty, etc.) Jews use patrilineal descent.
Mary is a descendant of David. David is from the tribe of Judah.< Prophesy of Jesus, fulfilled through both Mary, and David.

In jewish law whether someone is jewish is based solely on the mother.

In jewish law tribal lineage is based solely on the father.

Therefore, jesus was not a descendent of David.

If all of your prophets foretold of your Messiah so you would recognize Him, how will you recognize Him is you replace Him, (pronoun) with Israel? (noun)

When he fulfills the prophesies in Mihah 4:3 and Ezekiel 37

Israel has no feet or hands to pierce, no clothes. Israel was never hung on a tree, was never betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, never road a donkey, was never executed between thieves, or buried in a rich man's grave, never offered gall, wasn't born of a virgin, etc.

Those are based on misinterpretations.

Allegory only goes so far........... Then there's Christ:

1. He would be born of a Virgin (Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:18).

14. Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.

2. He would be of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10 and Luke 3:23, 33).
3. He would be of King David's seed (Jeremiah 23:5 and Luke 3:23, 31).

Jesus wasn't.

4. He would be born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2 and Matthew 2:1).
5. He would be a prophet (Deuteronomy 18:18-19 and Matthew 21:11).
6. He would teach with parables (Psalms 78:2 and Matthew 13:34).
7. He would be preceded by a messenger (Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1, and Matthew 3:1-2).
8. He would enter Jerusalem on a colt (Zechariah 9:9 and Luke 19:35-37).

Yes he will be on a donkey and from Bethlehem. That's about it.

9. He would be betrayed by a friend (Psalms 41:9 and Matthew 26:47-50).

9. "An evil thing shall be poured into him, and once he lies down, he will no longer rise."

Nothing about being betrayed about a friend. It's David taking about himself.

10. He would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12 and Matthew 26:15).

12. And I said to them: "If it pleases you, give [Me] My hire, and if not, forbear." And they weighed out My hire: thirty pieces of silver.


The 30 refers to the promise to Abraham that there won't be less than 30 righteous men in any generation.

11. He would be forsaken by His disciples (Zechariah 13:7 and Mark 14:50).

7. O sword, awaken against My shepherd and against the man who is associated with Me! says the Lord of Hosts. Smite the shepherd, and the flock shall scatter, and I will return My hand upon the little ones.

Nothing about being forsaken by disciples.

12. The money would be thrown in the temple and used to buy the potter's field (Zechariah 11:13 and Matthew 27:5-7).

13. And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the keeper of the treasury, to the stronghold of glory-of which I stripped them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast it into the house of the Lord, to the keeper of the treasury.


Since I don't know what you are getting it, I will post Rashi's commentary expaining the passages.

Rashi


And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the keeper of the treasury: like &#1492;&#1464;&#1488;&#1493;&#1465;&#1510;&#1461;&#1512;, the keeper of the treasury. Said the Holy One, blessed be He, to the prophet: Write, and leave over these and their righteousness to be preserved for the end of the seventy years of the Babylonian exile. The Temple shall be built by them. Now what is the treasury? [Cf. belo


the stronghold of glory: My Temple, the stronghold of My glory.


of which I stripped them: of which I stripped them so that they should no longer have glory. The expression &#1497;&#1464;&#1511;&#1463;&#1512;&#1456;&#1514;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; means the removal of glory; the “mem” in &#1502;&#1461;&#1506;&#1458;&#1500;&#1461;&#1497;&#1492;&#1462;&#1501; proves it. It is like (Ps. 52:7), “and He shall uproot you from the land of the living” ; and like (Isa. 10: 33), “lops off the branches.” My explanation is similar to Jonathan’s translation. I have seen many variant versions of the explanation of this prophecy, but I cannot reconcile those with the text.

13. He would be accused by false witnesses (Psalms 35:11 and Matthew 26:59-60).


11. False witnesses rise up; they ask me of things that I know not.


David is talking about himself.

In the begining of this chapter he makes it clear.

1. Of David. O Lord, strive with those who strive against me, battle my foes.

14. He would be silent before His accusers (Isaiah 53:7 and Matthew 27:12-14).

It's referring to Israel. Israel is referred to as one man throughout prophets.

15. He would be beaten by his enemies (Isaiah 50:6, 53:5, and Matthew 27:26).
16. He would be spit upon and beaten (Isaiah 50:6 and Matthew 27:30).

6. I gave my back to smiters and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair; I did not hide my face from embarrassments and spitting.

Israel

1 7. He would be struck in the head with a rod (Micah 5:1 and Matthew 27:30).

1. And you, Bethlehem Ephrathah-you should have been the lowest of the clans of Judah-from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel; and his origin is from of old, from days of yore.

No striking of the head there.

118. He would be mocked (Psalms 22:7-8 and Matthew 27:29, 31).


David clearly talking about himself.

I'm not going to go through the rest of them.

None of your verses have anything whatsoever to do with your jesus.

As much as you may want to point to anytime the Torah mentions, blood, lamb, suffereing, rock, tree, or anything else, it has nothing whatsoever to do with jesus.

The Torah was written by jews, for jews, to be interpreted by jews.

It has zero to do with christianity or the christian god.

I already posted the actual prophesies. The messiah will fullfill all of them when he comes. They are:

• World peace
• One uniformed king of all of Israel
• All nations will worship one G-D
• All the jews will come to Israel
• All the jews will stay in Israel
• The temple in jerusalem will be rebuilt and stand forever

Obviously, you are free to worship whatever or whomever you chose, but it has nothing to do with the G-D of the jews, or the G-D mentioned in the Torah.

 

[HUGGY]

CMike,
Traditional Judaism uses matrilineal descent to determine Jewish status.
Because you always know who a child's mother is, but not who his father might be.
In all other things (tribal affiliation, priestly status, royalty, etc.) Jews use patrilineal descent.
Mary is a descendant of David. David is from the tribe of Judah.< Prophesy of Jesus, fulfilled through both Mary, and David.

In jewish law whether someone is jewish is based solely on the mother.

In jewish law tribal lineage is based solely on the father.

Therefore, jesus was not a descendent of David.

If all of your prophets foretold of your Messiah so you would recognize Him, how will you recognize Him is you replace Him, (pronoun) with Israel? (noun)

When he fulfills the prophesies in Mihah 4:3 and Ezekiel 37


Those are based on misinterpretations.



14. Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the young woman is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.





Jesus wasn't.




Yes he will be on a donkey and from Bethlehem. That's about it.



9. "An evil thing shall be poured into him, and once he lies down, he will no longer rise."

Nothing about being betrayed about a friend. It's David taking about himself.






12. And I said to them: "If it pleases you, give [Me] My hire, and if not, forbear." And they weighed out My hire: thirty pieces of silver.


The 30 refers to the promise to Abraham that there won't be less than 30 righteous men in any generation.





7. O sword, awaken against My shepherd and against the man who is associated with Me! says the Lord of Hosts. Smite the shepherd, and the flock shall scatter, and I will return My hand upon the little ones.

Nothing about being forsaken by disciples.



13. And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the keeper of the treasury, to the stronghold of glory-of which I stripped them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and I cast it into the house of the Lord, to the keeper of the treasury.


Since I don't know what you are getting it, I will post Rashi's commentary expaining the passages.

Rashi


And the Lord said to me: Cast it to the keeper of the treasury: like &#1492;&#1464;&#1488;&#1493;&#1465;&#1510;&#1461;&#1512;, the keeper of the treasury. Said the Holy One, blessed be He, to the prophet: Write, and leave over these and their righteousness to be preserved for the end of the seventy years of the Babylonian exile. The Temple shall be built by them. Now what is the treasury? [Cf. belo


the stronghold of glory: My Temple, the stronghold of My glory.


of which I stripped them: of which I stripped them so that they should no longer have glory. The expression &#1497;&#1464;&#1511;&#1463;&#1512;&#1456;&#1514;&#1468;&#1460;&#1497; means the removal of glory; the “mem” in &#1502;&#1461;&#1506;&#1458;&#1500;&#1461;&#1497;&#1492;&#1462;&#1501; proves it. It is like (Ps. 52:7), “and He shall uproot you from the land of the living” ; and like (Isa. 10: 33), “lops off the branches.” My explanation is similar to Jonathan’s translation. I have seen many variant versions of the explanation of this prophecy, but I cannot reconcile those with the text.

13. He would be accused by false witnesses (Psalms 35:11 and Matthew 26:59-60).


11. False witnesses rise up; they ask me of things that I know not.


David is talking about himself.

In the begining of this chapter he makes it clear.

1. Of David. O Lord, strive with those who strive against me, battle my foes.





It's referring to Israel. Israel is referred to as one man throughout prophets.




6. I gave my back to smiters and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair; I did not hide my face from embarrassments and spitting.

Israel




1. And you, Bethlehem Ephrathah-you should have been the lowest of the clans of Judah-from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel; and his origin is from of old, from days of yore.

No striking of the head there.

118. He would be mocked (Psalms 22:7-8 and Matthew 27:29, 31).


David clearly talking about himself.

I'm not going to go through the rest of them.

None of your verses have anything whatsoever to do with your jesus.

As much as you may want to point to anytime the Torah mentions, blood, lamb, suffereing, rock, tree, or anything else, it has nothing whatsoever to do with jesus.

The Torah was written by jews, for jews, to be interpreted by jews.

It has zero to do with christianity or the christian god.

I already posted the actual prophesies. The messiah will fullfill all of them when he comes. They are:

• World peace
• One uniformed king of all of Israel
• All nations will worship one G-D
• All the jews will come to Israel
• All the jews will stay in Israel
• The temple in jerusalem will be rebuilt and stand forever

Obviously, you are free to worship whatever or whomever you chose, but it has nothing to do with the G-D of the jews, or the G-D mentioned in the Torah.

Do you seriously believe some dude is just going to show up and fix everything? Too many make believe solutions. Too many brainwashed morons. I can partially see why most people cling to the happy clappy end game. If you people ever came out of your coma and opened your eyes you would see how fucked we are and we would have billions of human beings having nervous breakdowns.

The cynical elite classes have the rest of us convinced that they are more worthy of the worlds resources than we are. Christians believe that that they will recieve THIER reward in the make believe after life. The dirt poor Muslims have convinced themselves that there is a similar bounty awaiting them if they put the teachings of Muhammed above all else.

It is pathetic that after all the time we have had to evolve socially that this is what we have become.

We are nothng more or less than a disease. We are a pustule on this planet ripe for mother nature to lance this boil. There will be no "end of the world" ...there will come an end to homo sapiens. We are collectively just too stupid to prevent it. I have complete faith in this outcome.

 

[The Irish Ram]

So as not to accept a Messiah that came as a Lamb instead of a warrior, you have replaced what refers to Jesus with Israel. The Catholics did the same thing. They took the Jews out and replaced them with the Catholic Church.

No interpretation is necessary when referring to being hung between two thieves. Jesus was either hung between two thieves or He wasn't. He was either buried in a rich man's grave or He wasn't. Israel has never been hung on a cross between two thieves, buried in a rich man's grave, or betrayed for silver. David's hands and feet were never pierced, he was never hung on a tree.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on who the Messiah is, but happily we can both agree on the future of Israel, it's sovereignty under the protection the God of Abraham, and the peace that will emanate from Israel in the future.
Shalom until He comes, and we can compare notes.