Family Feud

[Bloodrock44]

One point arabs and Jews agree on is that they both are children of Abraham (who was originally from Iraq). He fathered Isaac and Ishmael. The descendants of Isaac are the Jews and the descendants of Ishmael are the arabs. The disagreement comes as to who was the "child of promise". Jews say Isaac and arabs say Ishmael. Abrahams nephew, Lot, and his 2 daughters (now this gets sticky) survived Sodom and Gomorrah. Lots daughters believed they were the only people left on earth, so they got their father drunk and laid with him. They both got pregnant and each bore a son, one named Moab and one named Ammon. The Moabites and Ammonites settled in what is now Jordan. Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau. Jacob was renamed Israel and his 12 sons fathered the 12 tribes of Israel. Esau fathered the Edomites, who settled in what is now Israel and Jordan. It seems to me that the conflicts today are just a continuation of the family feud that's been going on for thousands of years. Maybe one day they will kiss and make up?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

One point arabs and Jews agree on is that they both are children of Abraham (who was originally from Iraq). He fathered Isaac and Ishmael. The descendants of Isaac are the Jews and the descendants of Ishmael are the arabs. The disagreement comes as to who was the "child of promise". Jews say Isaac and arabs say Ishmael. Abrahams nephew, Lot, and his 2 daughters (now this gets sticky) survived Sodom and Gomorrah. Lots daughters believed they were the only people left on earth, so they got their father drunk and laid with him. They both got pregnant and each bore a son, one named Moab and one named Ammon. The Moabites and Ammonites settled in what is now Jordan. Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau. Jacob was renamed Israel and his 12 sons fathered the 12 tribes of Israel. Esau fathered the Edomites, who settled in what is now Israel and Jordan. It seems to me that the conflicts today are just a continuation of the family feud that's been going on for thousands of years. Maybe one day they will kiss and make up?

You know your Bible very well.

 

[Bloodrock44]

One point arabs and Jews agree on is that they both are children of Abraham (who was originally from Iraq). He fathered Isaac and Ishmael. The descendants of Isaac are the Jews and the descendants of Ishmael are the arabs. The disagreement comes as to who was the "child of promise". Jews say Isaac and arabs say Ishmael. Abrahams nephew, Lot, and his 2 daughters (now this gets sticky) survived Sodom and Gomorrah. Lots daughters believed they were the only people left on earth, so they got their father drunk and laid with him. They both got pregnant and each bore a son, one named Moab and one named Ammon. The Moabites and Ammonites settled in what is now Jordan. Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau. Jacob was renamed Israel and his 12 sons fathered the 12 tribes of Israel. Esau fathered the Edomites, who settled in what is now Israel and Jordan. It seems to me that the conflicts today are just a continuation of the family feud that's been going on for thousands of years. Maybe one day they will kiss and make up?

You know your Bible very well.

That's because I have a very close personal relationship with the author. I know it doesn't show sometimes but I'm working hard on it. Where once I would have said "I will pluck your eyeballs out and show them to you before you go blind" I will say "that wasn't a wise thing to do". Where once I would have said "I will hit you so hard your whole hometown will have a headache" I might say "You might want to rethink that". Where once I would have said "I'll kick you so hard you'll be wearing your ass for a hat" I will say "Let's talk about it over a cup of coffee". Where once I was full of hatred I can now say there is not an ounce of hatred in me. If I could only learn to tolerate fools. Sorry for rambling./B]

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

One point arabs and Jews agree on is that they both are children of Abraham (who was originally from Iraq). He fathered Isaac and Ishmael. The descendants of Isaac are the Jews and the descendants of Ishmael are the arabs. The disagreement comes as to who was the "child of promise". Jews say Isaac and arabs say Ishmael. Abrahams nephew, Lot, and his 2 daughters (now this gets sticky) survived Sodom and Gomorrah. Lots daughters believed they were the only people left on earth, so they got their father drunk and laid with him. They both got pregnant and each bore a son, one named Moab and one named Ammon. The Moabites and Ammonites settled in what is now Jordan. Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau. Jacob was renamed Israel and his 12 sons fathered the 12 tribes of Israel. Esau fathered the Edomites, who settled in what is now Israel and Jordan. It seems to me that the conflicts today are just a continuation of the family feud that's been going on for thousands of years. Maybe one day they will kiss and make up?

You know your Bible very well.

That's because I have a very close personal relationship with the author. I know it doesn't show sometimes but I'm working hard on it. Where once I would have said "I will pluck your eyeballs out and show them to you before you go blind" I will say "that wasn't a wise thing to do". Where once I would have said "I will hit you so hard your whole hometown will have a headache" I might say "You might want to rethink that". Where once I would have said "I'll kick you so hard you'll be wearing your ass for a hat" I will say "Let's talk about it over a cup of coffee". Where once I was full of hatred I can now say there is not an ounce of hatred in me. If I could only learn to tolerate fools. Sorry for rambling./B]

That could also be maturity. There is an obvious difference how the youngsters on USMB choose their words and how the older members do. But yes, of course, a believe in G-d can calm people down - make them content.

 

[peach174]

Yep !
They are all related. Every single one of them call Abraham their Father.
They are the original family feud.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

There was jealousy because Ishmael was the firstborn but from Sarah's servant Hagar, whereas Sarah's had a 'miracle' birth at a very old age 13 years after Ishmael's birth to her son Isaac. Sarah then became resentful of Hagar and Ishmael and banished them. There was bad blood from the start and Ishmael is the forefather of the Islamic nation.

 

[peach174]

There was jealousy because Ishmael was the firstborn but from Sarah's servant Hagar, whereas Sarah's had a 'miracle' birth at a very old age 13 years after Ishmael's birth to her son Isaac. Sarah then became resentful of Hagar and Ishmael and banished them. There was bad blood from the start and Ishmael is the forefather of the Islamic nation.

And all of this is because Sarah would not believe God, when he said he would give Abraham and Sarah a son.
This is the consequence of what has continued for thousands of years when she laughed at being able to conceive in her old age with her miracle birth.
Had she listened to God and believed there would never have been a conflict and jealousy to begin with.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

There was jealousy because Ishmael was the firstborn but from Sarah's servant Hagar, whereas Sarah's had a 'miracle' birth at a very old age 13 years after Ishmael's birth to her son Isaac. Sarah then became resentful of Hagar and Ishmael and banished them. There was bad blood from the start and Ishmael is the forefather of the Islamic nation.

And all of this is because Sarah would not believe God, when he said he would give Abraham and Sarah a son.
This is the consequence of what has continued for thousands of years when she laughed at being able to conceive in her old age with her miracle birth.
Had she listened to God and believed there would never have been a conflict and jealousy to begin with.

Hmm, not too sure about that. At the age of 99 she would have been shocked, not to mention completely in awe, having experienced G-d first-hand and told she would conceive. People say and do strange things under stress or in awe.

The conflict I believe would certainly have happened. Sarah was jealous of Hagar and her son born first, and of course who knows what other jealousies and little tiffs could have gone on in their home. You know what families are like. These were people, admittedly special people, but still people nonetheless.

 

[Ropey]

When I was sixteen I broke my brother's nose. I forgave him for pushing me and expected him to forgive me for hitting him.



He's not forgiven me.

Family.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

When I was sixteen I broke my brother's nose. I forgave him for pushing me and expected him to forgive me for hitting him.



He's not forgiven me.

Family.

You know what they say, "you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family."

 

[Ropey]

When I was sixteen I broke my brother's nose. I forgave him for pushing me and expected him to forgive me for hitting him.



He's not forgiven me.

Family.

You know what they say, "you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family."

Oh but I love my brother more than any of my friends. Still, I have some very good discussions with the Lebanese barbers I frequent. They've never pushed me, but then I never kissed their girlfriends either.

It was New Years, I was young and I used my tongue under the mistletoe.

Sometimes the context is so important.

 

[peach174]

Sarah was tired of Hagar and Ishmael's haughty attitude and of Ishmael poking fun of her son Isaac.
So she wanted them banished.
God spoke to Abraham and told him to listen to Sarah because God's promise was to Isaac. But God also promised that Ishmael seed would become a nation. Both were fulfilled.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Sarah was tired of Hagar and Ishmael's haughty attitude and of Ishmael poking fun of her son Isaac.
So she wanted them banished.
God spoke to Abraham and told him to listen to Sarah because God's promise was to Isaac. But God also promised that Ishmael seed would become a nation. Both were fulfilled.

Yes they were.

Nice topic. Good to come out of the political sphere for a while and realize who really is in charge of this world of ours.

 

[Ropey]

Sarah was tired of Hagar and Ishmael's haughty attitude and of Ishmael poking fun of her son Isaac.
So she wanted them banished.
God spoke to Abraham and told him to listen to Sarah because God's promise was to Isaac. But God also promised that Ishmael seed would become a nation. Both were fulfilled.

There is also a family of those who believe. Who is the creator and destroyer of Nations?

The creator of nations demands that authority. This means (to believers) all nations have birthed & died because of that authority's creation and destruction choices.

This is all supposed to be, if you believe. Not every event, but the order of the world. If the Muslim is a true believer, then that Muslim knows that G-d creates nations and destroys them. If the Jew is a practicing & believing Jew, then that Jew also knows the same thing. Christians also follow this belief.

So, then all the nations of the world are supposed to be here if they are here and are supposed to be gone if they are gone.

It's out of our hands. Yes, we can continue to fight and die but in the long term the end result will be the same. Christians, Muslims and Jews can continue the fight both offensively and defensively but this is not our choice as much as the fulfillment of the end of times. Different times will be upon us at that time.

The end journey and the nations are beyond us if we are to believe the spiritual philosophies of Abraham's foundation.

Our choice is how we follow the Laws given to our separate peoples. The laws are for all who have their beliefs and who practice their spiritual disciplines.

The rest is the mundane choice of culture.

 

[Bloodrock44]

Sarah was tired of Hagar and Ishmael's haughty attitude and of Ishmael poking fun of her son Isaac.
So she wanted them banished.
God spoke to Abraham and told him to listen to Sarah because God's promise was to Isaac. But God also promised that Ishmael seed would become a nation. Both were fulfilled.

Yes they were.

Nice topic. Good to come out of the political sphere for a while and realize who really is in charge of this world of ours.

Yes it is. I like to dig deep into the origins of the current conflict and this is as deep as it gets.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Sarah was tired of Hagar and Ishmael's haughty attitude and of Ishmael poking fun of her son Isaac.
So she wanted them banished.
God spoke to Abraham and told him to listen to Sarah because God's promise was to Isaac. But God also promised that Ishmael seed would become a nation. Both were fulfilled.

Yes they were.

Nice topic. Good to come out of the political sphere for a while and realize who really is in charge of this world of ours.

Yes it is. I like to dig deep into the origins of the current conflict and this is as deep as it gets.

In actual fact, it is probably the answer. It is the root of the problem. It is why Ishmael's descendants want to see an end to Isaac's descendants. It is not about land and anyone who knows about the Israel/Pal conflict knows that land is not the issue. I will say no more (for the time-being).

I was 'transported' back 4000 years in this thread to a different time, and it was good.

 

[Bloodrock44]

Sarah was tired of Hagar and Ishmael's haughty attitude and of Ishmael poking fun of her son Isaac.
So she wanted them banished.
God spoke to Abraham and told him to listen to Sarah because God's promise was to Isaac. But God also promised that Ishmael seed would become a nation. Both were fulfilled.

Yes they were. Not only did He promise that Ishmael would become a nation, but that he would be a great nation. But He promised Abraham that his heir (Isaac) would be the child of promise. BUT, when He initially promised him an heir He did not specify the mother. Abraham believed and it was counted to him as righteousness. Sarah was just being human when she considered herself to be too old to conceive. And voila...we have Ishmael and the arabs. I think had it not been them, it would have been someone else. Also notice that when the Jews would be taken into captivity, the Persians, Babylonians and Egyptians would take the brightest among them and put them into government. Go figure.

 

[Bloodrock44]

Yes they were.

Nice topic. Good to come out of the political sphere for a while and realize who really is in charge of this world of ours.

Yes it is. I like to dig deep into the origins of the current conflict and this is as deep as it gets.

In actual fact, it is probably the answer. It is the root of the problem. It is why Ishmael's descendants want to see an end to Isaac's descendants. It is not about land and anyone who knows about the Israel/Pal conflict knows that land is not the issue. I will say no more (for the time-being).

I was 'transported' back 4000 years in this thread to a different time, and it was good.

This is where you'll need to school me. And I'd like to hear the pro-Palestinian point of view on this. If it is not the land that caused such deep hatred, where and what exactly did it begin?

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Yes it is. I like to dig deep into the origins of the current conflict and this is as deep as it gets.

In actual fact, it is probably the answer. It is the root of the problem. It is why Ishmael's descendants want to see an end to Isaac's descendants. It is not about land and anyone who knows about the Israel/Pal conflict knows that land is not the issue. I will say no more (for the time-being).

I was 'transported' back 4000 years in this thread to a different time, and it was good.

This is where you'll need to school me. And I'd like to hear the pro-Palestinian point of view on this. If it is not the land that caused such deep hatred, where and what exactly did it begin?

Jealousy of Abraham and Sarah with Isaac. Hagar and Ishmael were banished. G-d foretold that Ishmael's descendants would be a great nation, yes, (many millions of Islamists in the world today) but that also they would be 'wild.'

Mohammed got people to convert to Islam (submit to Allah) and those who refused were killed.

He also forbade people to pray facing Jerusalem, as was the practice at that time, but to face Mecca, therefore their backs were to Jerusalem. Mecca and Medina were more important to Islam than Jerusalem which is not mentioned once in their Quoran.

The land that the Palestinians now want is within Israel. They want to squeeze the Jews into a smaller and smaller space thereby making it easy for the annihilation, so while it seems like a conflict of land, the wider goal is to push the Jews out of the region.

The Islamists refer to the Jews as "apes and pigs" and even children refer to Jews that way.

 

[Bloodrock44]

In actual fact, it is probably the answer. It is the root of the problem. It is why Ishmael's descendants want to see an end to Isaac's descendants. It is not about land and anyone who knows about the Israel/Pal conflict knows that land is not the issue. I will say no more (for the time-being).

I was 'transported' back 4000 years in this thread to a different time, and it was good.

This is where you'll need to school me. And I'd like to hear the pro-Palestinian point of view on this. If it is not the land that caused such deep hatred, where and what exactly did it begin?

Jealousy of Abraham and Sarah with Isaac. Hagar and Ishmael were banished. G-d foretold that Ishmael's descendants would be a great nation, yes, (many millions of Islamists in the world today) but that also they would be 'wild.'

Mohammed got people to convert to Islam (submit to Allah) and those who refused were killed.

He also forbade people to pray facing Jerusalem, as was the practice at that time, but to face Mecca, therefore their backs were to Jerusalem. Mecca and Medina were more important to Islam than Jerusalem which is not mentioned once in their Quoran.

The land that the Palestinians now want is within Israel. They want to squeeze the Jews into a smaller and smaller space thereby making it easy for the annihilation, so while it seems like a conflict of land, the wider goal is to push the Jews out of the region.

The Islamists refer to the Jews as "apes and pigs" and even children refer to Jews that way.

So the origin goes back that far? Is it your opinion that Islam has added flames to the fire?