Fascism Is as Fascism Does

[PoliticalChic]

1. "...structures that bear actual fascist symbols—those of the United States government, no less. Bizarre as it seems, many federal buildings in Washington were designed prominently with fasces, the emblem of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini’s twentieth-century regime. Even more surprisingly, these structures were erected in the 1920s and 1930s—just as Mussolini was ornamenting Italy’s government buildings with the same symbol.

and where did Mussolini get the symbolic fasces from??? Ancient Rome..it is a symbol of authority..

And....your point, beside the one on your head?


Would you like to excuse the swastika based on an earlier connection, too?



Here's a novel idea: comment on the truth of everything I've posted.

 

[Jroc]

Isn't PoliChic from north Korea? Is that why she hates this great nation so much

The Koreans are one of the most racist people on earth, despite what offsetting merits they may possess;

I think we can excuse PC's intolerance for anyone who isn't exactly like her to a well entrenched nature/nurture cocktail.

Liberals and racial politics, when all else fails..... What else do they have really?

 

[Moonglow]

FDR was following Mussolini by Stalin's directive? Since Polyvinyl has implicated so many foreign leaders into him being just a puppet of the world's leaders. Anymore character assassinations from the un-American one...??

 

[NYcarbineer]

Isn't PoliChic from north Korea? Is that why she hates this great nation so much

If she'd take some time out of her idle rich day to clean under her bed (or have the help do it)

she might not have as many bogeymen hiding under it.

 

[Moonglow]

1. "...structures that bear actual fascist symbols—those of the United States government, no less. Bizarre as it seems, many federal buildings in Washington were designed prominently with fasces, the emblem of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini’s twentieth-century regime. Even more surprisingly, these structures were erected in the 1920s and 1930s—just as Mussolini was ornamenting Italy’s government buildings with the same symbol.

and where did Mussolini get the symbolic fasces from??? Ancient Rome..it is a symbol of authority..

And....your point, beside the one on your head?


Would you like to excuse the swastika based on an earlier connection, too?



Here's a novel idea: comment on the truth of everything I've posted.

Did the Romans use the swastika as a symbol of authority? No. But play stupid again, we all expect it...

 

[Moonglow]

Isn't PoliChic from north Korea? Is that why she hates this great nation so much

The Koreans are one of the most racist people on earth, despite what offsetting merits they may possess;

I think we can excuse PC's intolerance for anyone who isn't exactly like her to a well entrenched nature/nurture cocktail.

Liberals and racial politics, when all else fails..... What else do they have really?

Fake rabbi's to play the devil's advocate..and the inane ability of so called US conservatives to try to destroy a dead man who can't defend themselves..

 

[TemplarKormac]

1. "...structures that bear actual fascist symbols—those of the United States government, no less. Bizarre as it seems, many federal buildings in Washington were designed prominently with fasces, the emblem of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini’s twentieth-century regime. Even more surprisingly, these structures were erected in the 1920s and 1930s—just as Mussolini was ornamenting Italy’s government buildings with the same symbol.

and where did Mussolini get the symbolic fasces from??? Ancient Rome..it is a symbol of authority..

Your point? It would do you well to read the rest of the OP, Moonie.

Rome wasn't a Republic at first. They were the Roman Kingdom. A kingdom is a form of monarchism, or authoritarianism. The Roman Republic happened later. Fascism is a form of raw authoritarianism, as seen by the appointments of Chiefs by the Roman Kingdom before its overthrow. A republic is what happens when the people sour to the concept of authoritarianism. The pattern of which can be seen in the foundation of the United States of America.

 

[JakeStarkey]

PC is so unrepresentative of American values and traditions that the mind boggles.

She is also an obvious failure as a professional blogger.

 

[PoliticalChic]

and where did Mussolini get the symbolic fasces from??? Ancient Rome..it is a symbol of authority..

And....your point, beside the one on your head?


Would you like to excuse the swastika based on an earlier connection, too?



Here's a novel idea: comment on the truth of everything I've posted.

Did the Romans use the swastika as a symbol of authority? No. But play stupid again, we all expect it...

The National Socialists did.


And FDR was just a entranced with their policies.


I don't believe you play stupid.

You are stupid.

 

[Siete]

Any who have studied the history of the last century understand how very similar the economic policies of Mussolini and of Franklin Roosevelt were.

Economic policies?
....it goes well beyond economic policies. In many ways, elites desired this nation to mirror Fascist Italy....

The authoritarian designs of Italian government structures were also attractive to Roosevelt, as a way of symbolizing the strength of all-powerful state authority.

"The architecture of the three regimes in terms of ‘monumentality,’ the need of people to create symbols that reveal their inner life, their actions, and their social conceptions. The similarity of the architecture of National Socialism, of Fascism, and of that of the New Deal is a reminder of the fact that during the Great Depression, capitalism’s period of crisis, all three philosophies rejected modernism and turned, instead, to monumentality, a backward-looking, neoclassical architecture."
Wolfgang Schivelbusch, “Three New Deals”





1. "...structures that bear actual fascist symbols—those of the United States government, no less. Bizarre as it seems, many federal buildings in Washington were designed prominently with fasces, the emblem of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini’s twentieth-century regime. Even more surprisingly, these structures were erected in the 1920s and 1930s—just as Mussolini was ornamenting Italy’s government buildings with the same symbol.

2. The bas-reliefs on the flagpoles at the Supreme Court, done by the architect Charles Gilbert in 1935, also feature fasces as one of seven symbols of justice’s manifold attributes.

3. The federal fasces have oddly escaped the notice of modern observers, but their story sheds light on the often curious histories of cultural symbols. How did the fasces get there? Stranger still, how did they escape effacement during our mid-century war with the Italian fascist regime?
And how should we think about them today?




4. When he came to power in Italy in 1922, Mussolini resurrected the symbol and employed it to represent the strength and unity of the Italian state. Political fascism made physical power and the ability to impose order central to its ideology, and so the term “fascism” quickly became synonymous with authoritarian regimes.
Mussolini made the fasces symbol almost as common in Italy as the Nazi swastika became in Hitler’s Germany.

5. American architects knew of Mussolini’s grandiose building projects, and some publicly lauded them. Charles Gilbert, who designed the Supreme Court building, met Mussolini on a 1927 visit to Italy to procure marble for the project. No doubt Gilbert saw the countless fasces in Italian architecture. He was also favorably impressed by Il Duce himself.

6. But given the prominence of the fasces in Mussolini’s propaganda, [the architect] must have been aware that he wasn’t simply using ancient iconography. The architects working on the federal buildings of the 1930s were also extremely conscious of the political symbolism they employed.

They often looked to the socialist realism of Europe for inspiration.

The Federal Trade Commission building, for instance, completed in 1938, is adorned with socialist-realist reliefs of brawny workers engaged in various industries.




7. Today, it might seem improbable that American government projects would decorate themselves with symbols of European fascism, whatever the enthusiasms of architects. But at the time, Mussolini was widely admired by Americans for getting Italy back on its feet.
“I’m pretty high on that bird,” humorist Will Rogers said of Il Duce after visiting Italy and interviewing Mussolini. “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government—that is, if you have the right dictator.”

The rise of fascism appeared to pose no direct threat to U.S. interests, and many saw it as a counterweight to scarier European movements. It was Bolshevism without the collectivization; Nazism without the racism."
When Fasces Aren't Fascist by Eugene Kontorovich, City Journal Spring 2014






" Political fascism made physical power and the ability to impose order central to its ideology, and so the term “fascism” quickly became synonymous with authoritarian regimes."

The more things change....the more they remain the same.

In many ways, communist and fascist movements had opposing ideologies but both ended up being repressive political systems based on the control of a single leader. While communism is based around a theory of economic equality, fascism is based around the glory of the state and strength displayed through violence and conquest. Both communism and fascism originated in Europe and gained popularity in the early to mid 20th century..


pretty much shot down your analogy and reasoning doesn't it? .... assuming you were capable of reasoning.

Obama isn't a single leader unless you rule out the Republicans in Congress which you can't.

 

[JakeStarkey]

1. "...structures that bear actual fascist symbols—those of the United States government, no less. Bizarre as it seems, many federal buildings in Washington were designed prominently with fasces, the emblem of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini’s twentieth-century regime. Even more surprisingly, these structures were erected in the 1920s and 1930s—just as Mussolini was ornamenting Italy’s government buildings with the same symbol.

and where did Mussolini get the symbolic fasces from??? Ancient Rome..it is a symbol of authority..

Your point? It would do you well to read the rest of the OP, Moonie.

The Roman Government wasn't a Republic at first. They were the Roman Kingdom. A kingdom is a form of monarchism, or authoritarianism. The Roman Republic happened later. Fascism is a form of raw authoritarianism, as seen by the appointments of Chiefs by the Roman Kingdom before its overthrow.

Your understanding of the monarchy and the rule of Law in Italy is very obvious.

Do some basic reading in Italian history from about 1880 to 1943.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC is so unrepresentative of American values and traditions that the mind boggles.

She is also an obvious failure as a professional blogger.

I am both a devotee and font of education.


Those are American values.


You.....?


Once again, unable to deny anything I have posted.




But....so glad it gets under your skin......hey, isn't it time for your to be shedding same?

 

[TemplarKormac]

PC is so unrepresentative of American values and traditions that the mind boggles.

She is also an obvious failure as a professional blogger.

You are an obvious failure when it comes to cogent debates, Jake.

 

[JakeStarkey]

PC is so unrepresentative of American values and traditions that the mind boggles.

She is also an obvious failure as a professional blogger.

I am both a devotee and font of education. Those are American values. You.....?

Once again, unable to deny anything I have posted. But....so glad it gets under your skin......hey, isn't it time for your to be shedding same?

You are a corrupter of those values, deliberately so. The others hav emore than adequately exploded your points. Remember how easily your "if only we had fought in southeastern Europe and not invaded Normandy instead of loving Stalin" was debunked.

You 'work' will be held up in blogging and essay courses of how not to do this.

Simply, miss. You will not be allowed to misdefine terms, concepts, and narratives without your errors made manifest to all.

 

[Siete]

PC is so unrepresentative of American values and traditions that the mind boggles.

She is also an obvious failure as a professional blogger.

You are an obvious failure when it comes to cogent debates, Jake.

and your debating skills equate to what, character assassination ?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Any who have studied the history of the last century understand how very similar the economic policies of Mussolini and of Franklin Roosevelt were.

Economic policies?
....it goes well beyond economic policies. In many ways, elites desired this nation to mirror Fascist Italy....

The authoritarian designs of Italian government structures were also attractive to Roosevelt, as a way of symbolizing the strength of all-powerful state authority.

"The architecture of the three regimes in terms of ‘monumentality,’ the need of people to create symbols that reveal their inner life, their actions, and their social conceptions. The similarity of the architecture of National Socialism, of Fascism, and of that of the New Deal is a reminder of the fact that during the Great Depression, capitalism’s period of crisis, all three philosophies rejected modernism and turned, instead, to monumentality, a backward-looking, neoclassical architecture."
Wolfgang Schivelbusch, “Three New Deals”





1. "...structures that bear actual fascist symbols—those of the United States government, no less. Bizarre as it seems, many federal buildings in Washington were designed prominently with fasces, the emblem of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini’s twentieth-century regime. Even more surprisingly, these structures were erected in the 1920s and 1930s—just as Mussolini was ornamenting Italy’s government buildings with the same symbol.

2. The bas-reliefs on the flagpoles at the Supreme Court, done by the architect Charles Gilbert in 1935, also feature fasces as one of seven symbols of justice’s manifold attributes.

3. The federal fasces have oddly escaped the notice of modern observers, but their story sheds light on the often curious histories of cultural symbols. How did the fasces get there? Stranger still, how did they escape effacement during our mid-century war with the Italian fascist regime?
And how should we think about them today?




4. When he came to power in Italy in 1922, Mussolini resurrected the symbol and employed it to represent the strength and unity of the Italian state. Political fascism made physical power and the ability to impose order central to its ideology, and so the term “fascism” quickly became synonymous with authoritarian regimes.
Mussolini made the fasces symbol almost as common in Italy as the Nazi swastika became in Hitler’s Germany.

5. American architects knew of Mussolini’s grandiose building projects, and some publicly lauded them. Charles Gilbert, who designed the Supreme Court building, met Mussolini on a 1927 visit to Italy to procure marble for the project. No doubt Gilbert saw the countless fasces in Italian architecture. He was also favorably impressed by Il Duce himself.

6. But given the prominence of the fasces in Mussolini’s propaganda, [the architect] must have been aware that he wasn’t simply using ancient iconography. The architects working on the federal buildings of the 1930s were also extremely conscious of the political symbolism they employed.

They often looked to the socialist realism of Europe for inspiration.

The Federal Trade Commission building, for instance, completed in 1938, is adorned with socialist-realist reliefs of brawny workers engaged in various industries.




7. Today, it might seem improbable that American government projects would decorate themselves with symbols of European fascism, whatever the enthusiasms of architects. But at the time, Mussolini was widely admired by Americans for getting Italy back on its feet.
“I’m pretty high on that bird,” humorist Will Rogers said of Il Duce after visiting Italy and interviewing Mussolini. “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government—that is, if you have the right dictator.”

The rise of fascism appeared to pose no direct threat to U.S. interests, and many saw it as a counterweight to scarier European movements. It was Bolshevism without the collectivization; Nazism without the racism."
When Fasces Aren't Fascist by Eugene Kontorovich, City Journal Spring 2014






" Political fascism made physical power and the ability to impose order central to its ideology, and so the term “fascism” quickly became synonymous with authoritarian regimes."

The more things change....the more they remain the same.

In many ways, communist and fascist movements had opposing ideologies but both ended up being repressive political systems based on the control of a single leader. While communism is based around a theory of economic equality, fascism is based around the glory of the state and strength displayed through violence and conquest. Both communism and fascism originated in Europe and gained popularity in the early to mid 20th century..


pretty much shot down your analogy and reasoning doesn't it? .... assuming you were capable of reasoning.

Obama isn't a single leader unless you rule out the Republicans in Congress which you can't.

1. Nazi...national socialism....based on nationalism and/or race...
Communism....international socialism.

2. The difference between [socialism and fascism] is superficial and purely formal, but it is significant psychologically: it brings the authoritarian nature of a planned economy crudely into the open. The main characteristic of socialism (and of communism) is public ownership of the means of production, and, therefore, the abolition of private property. The right to property is the right of use and disposal. Under fascism, men retain the semblance or pretense of private property, but the government holds total power over its use and disposal.
Ayn Rand.




a. And, another based on statism, big government: Liberalis/Progressivism/ whatever you choose to call it today.



3. "Given his impetuous temperament, it comes as no surprise that Roosevelt had little regard for the limits the Constitution imposed on the presidency. In the United Mine Workers strike in 1902, Roosevelt threatened to order the army to run the coal mines.

Well known is TR's outburst, when told the Constitution did not permit the confiscation of private property: "To hell with the Constitution when the people want coal!" Less well known is that at one point TR summoned General John M. Schofield, instructing him: "I bid you pay no heed to any other authority, no heed to a writ from a judge, or anything else except my commands."

Roosevelt's disregard for the Constitution carried over to his conduct of foreign affairs. Woods explains in detail the way in which Roosevelt in 1905 arrogated to himself the power to reach a binding agreement with the Dominican Republic to administer that country's customs collections. The Constitution clearly requires that treaties be submitted to the Senate for its approval, but Roosevelt at first refused to submit the agreement to the Senate. Faced with protests, he at last did submit the treaty; but when the Senate did not act on it, Roosevelt was not deterred.

Exasperated, Roosevelt simply defied the senate, drawing up what we would today call an executive agreement, the foreign policy equivalent of an executive order. (p. 141)
The Mises Review: 33 Questions About American History You're Not Supposed to Ask by Thomas E. Woods, Jr.




Leads right up to FDR, doesn't it......

 

[Moonglow]

PC is so unrepresentative of American values and traditions that the mind boggles.

She is also an obvious failure as a professional blogger.

I am both a devotee and font of education.


Those are American values.


You.....?


Once again, unable to deny anything I have posted.




But....so glad it gets under your skin......hey, isn't it time for your to be shedding same?

Somebody that is a historian does not attack so savagely a single person to demonize them when it is not due. You have no ability to be merely an observer/learner, you play assassin which shows your true intent on maligning only those from the democratic party, when you know that GOP presidents have their faults also, but you turn your blind eye to them and try to convince your audience that they were saints...

Through this process you ruin your chances at ever being a scholar and the ability to reason by contrast of all and not just a minority..

 

[TemplarKormac]

and where did Mussolini get the symbolic fasces from??? Ancient Rome..it is a symbol of authority..

Your point? It would do you well to read the rest of the OP, Moonie.

The Roman Government wasn't a Republic at first. They were the Roman Kingdom. A kingdom is a form of monarchism, or authoritarianism. The Roman Republic happened later. Fascism is a form of raw authoritarianism, as seen by the appointments of Chiefs by the Roman Kingdom before its overthrow.

Your understanding of the monarchy and the rule of Law in Italy is very obvious.

Do some basic reading in Italian history from about 1880 to 1943.

I have. Mussolini drew his inspirations from that of the Ancient Roman Kingdom, plus facets of the Roman Republic. As is seen in his complete works:

"Fascism’s revived consciousness of the ancient glories of Italy, of the Roman Empire...continuation of this tradition by...the Fascisti struggle for a new Imperial Rome."

--Edoardo e Duilio Susmel, who drafted the Complete works of Benito Mussolini (or the Opera Omnia) during the Fascist movement in Italy.

 

[TemplarKormac]

PC is so unrepresentative of American values and traditions that the mind boggles.

She is also an obvious failure as a professional blogger.

You are an obvious failure when it comes to cogent debates, Jake.

and your debating skills equate to what, character assassination ?

That is Jake's forte. Not mine. Your response is a red herring.

 

[Siete]

Any who have studied the history of the last century understand how very similar the economic policies of Mussolini and of Franklin Roosevelt were.

Economic policies?
....it goes well beyond economic policies. In many ways, elites desired this nation to mirror Fascist Italy....

The authoritarian designs of Italian government structures were also attractive to Roosevelt, as a way of symbolizing the strength of all-powerful state authority.

"The architecture of the three regimes in terms of ‘monumentality,’ the need of people to create symbols that reveal their inner life, their actions, and their social conceptions. The similarity of the architecture of National Socialism, of Fascism, and of that of the New Deal is a reminder of the fact that during the Great Depression, capitalism’s period of crisis, all three philosophies rejected modernism and turned, instead, to monumentality, a backward-looking, neoclassical architecture."
Wolfgang Schivelbusch, “Three New Deals”





1. "...structures that bear actual fascist symbols—those of the United States government, no less. Bizarre as it seems, many federal buildings in Washington were designed prominently with fasces, the emblem of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini’s twentieth-century regime. Even more surprisingly, these structures were erected in the 1920s and 1930s—just as Mussolini was ornamenting Italy’s government buildings with the same symbol.

2. The bas-reliefs on the flagpoles at the Supreme Court, done by the architect Charles Gilbert in 1935, also feature fasces as one of seven symbols of justice’s manifold attributes.

3. The federal fasces have oddly escaped the notice of modern observers, but their story sheds light on the often curious histories of cultural symbols. How did the fasces get there? Stranger still, how did they escape effacement during our mid-century war with the Italian fascist regime?
And how should we think about them today?




4. When he came to power in Italy in 1922, Mussolini resurrected the symbol and employed it to represent the strength and unity of the Italian state. Political fascism made physical power and the ability to impose order central to its ideology, and so the term “fascism” quickly became synonymous with authoritarian regimes.
Mussolini made the fasces symbol almost as common in Italy as the Nazi swastika became in Hitler’s Germany.

5. American architects knew of Mussolini’s grandiose building projects, and some publicly lauded them. Charles Gilbert, who designed the Supreme Court building, met Mussolini on a 1927 visit to Italy to procure marble for the project. No doubt Gilbert saw the countless fasces in Italian architecture. He was also favorably impressed by Il Duce himself.

6. But given the prominence of the fasces in Mussolini’s propaganda, [the architect] must have been aware that he wasn’t simply using ancient iconography. The architects working on the federal buildings of the 1930s were also extremely conscious of the political symbolism they employed.

They often looked to the socialist realism of Europe for inspiration.

The Federal Trade Commission building, for instance, completed in 1938, is adorned with socialist-realist reliefs of brawny workers engaged in various industries.




7. Today, it might seem improbable that American government projects would decorate themselves with symbols of European fascism, whatever the enthusiasms of architects. But at the time, Mussolini was widely admired by Americans for getting Italy back on its feet.
“I’m pretty high on that bird,” humorist Will Rogers said of Il Duce after visiting Italy and interviewing Mussolini. “Dictator form of government is the greatest form of government—that is, if you have the right dictator.”

The rise of fascism appeared to pose no direct threat to U.S. interests, and many saw it as a counterweight to scarier European movements. It was Bolshevism without the collectivization; Nazism without the racism."
When Fasces Aren't Fascist by Eugene Kontorovich, City Journal Spring 2014






" Political fascism made physical power and the ability to impose order central to its ideology, and so the term “fascism” quickly became synonymous with authoritarian regimes."

The more things change....the more they remain the same.

In many ways, communist and fascist movements had opposing ideologies but both ended up being repressive political systems based on the control of a single leader. While communism is based around a theory of economic equality, fascism is based around the glory of the state and strength displayed through violence and conquest. Both communism and fascism originated in Europe and gained popularity in the early to mid 20th century..


pretty much shot down your analogy and reasoning doesn't it? .... assuming you were capable of reasoning.

Obama isn't a single leader unless you rule out the Republicans in Congress which you can't.

1. Nazi...national socialism....based on nationalism and/or race...
Communism....international socialism.

2. The difference between [socialism and fascism] is superficial and purely formal, but it is significant psychologically: it brings the authoritarian nature of a planned economy crudely into the open. The main characteristic of socialism (and of communism) is public ownership of the means of production, and, therefore, the abolition of private property. The right to property is the right of use and disposal. Under fascism, men retain the semblance or pretense of private property, but the government holds total power over its use and disposal.
Ayn Rand.




a. And, another based on statism, big government: Liberalis/Progressivism/ whatever you choose to call it today.



3. "Given his impetuous temperament, it comes as no surprise that Roosevelt had little regard for the limits the Constitution imposed on the presidency. In the United Mine Workers strike in 1902, Roosevelt threatened to order the army to run the coal mines.

Well known is TR's outburst, when told the Constitution did not permit the confiscation of private property: "To hell with the Constitution when the people want coal!" Less well known is that at one point TR summoned General John M. Schofield, instructing him: "I bid you pay no heed to any other authority, no heed to a writ from a judge, or anything else except my commands."

Roosevelt's disregard for the Constitution carried over to his conduct of foreign affairs. Woods explains in detail the way in which Roosevelt in 1905 arrogated to himself the power to reach a binding agreement with the Dominican Republic to administer that country's customs collections. The Constitution clearly requires that treaties be submitted to the Senate for its approval, but Roosevelt at first refused to submit the agreement to the Senate. Faced with protests, he at last did submit the treaty; but when the Senate did not act on it, Roosevelt was not deterred.

Exasperated, Roosevelt simply defied the senate, drawing up what we would today call an executive agreement, the foreign policy equivalent of an executive order. (p. 141)
The Mises Review: 33 Questions About American History You're Not Supposed to Ask by Thomas E. Woods, Jr.




Leads right up to FDR, doesn't it......

maybe in your mind skewed with warped logic, not mine.

basically every foreign power has been compared to Obama to no avail when FACTS enter the picture.